May 25 2007

Immigration Bill Rolls On

Published by at 2:14 pm under All General Discussions,Illegal Immigration

The Immigration Bill is rolling ahead in the Senate.

By a vote of 66-29, senators rejected an amendment by Republican Party legislator David Vitter to eliminate a provision that offers legal status to most of the 12 million illegal immigrants living in the United States.

The Senate also narrowly rejected a proposal by Republican Norm Coleman to allow state and local law enforcement agencies to help enforce immigration laws.

I have issue with some things changed or not included – especially Coleman’s proposal. Hopefully it will go back in at conference. Of course, if the hard right would vote to strengthen the bill instead of gutting it things would be better. Coleman lost by 2 votes. Perfect is the evil of good and continuing with the status quo is dangerous. So as along as the ability to deport criminals stays in under a one-strike-your-out feature this bill is keeping my support. That feature alone makes this bill worth keeping. But we need the guest worker program to get background checks (criminal records) and to provide IDs to those checked and cleared. So far good enough.

Update: Myth busting the myth peddlers:

FACT: The bill would, for the first time, give the Departments of Homeland Security (DHS) and Justice (DOJ) tools to keep certain aliens out of the United States solely on the basis of their participation in a gang.
No conviction is required – if an individual has associated with a gang and helped “aid” or “support” its illegal activity, then he or she is not allowed to remain in the country – even if he renounces his gang affiliation.

ACT: After the family backlog is cleared in the first eight years after enactment, the bill will eliminate about 190,000 extended family visas per year. By contrast, the category of “extreme hardship” cases is capped at 5,000 visas per year.

FACT: Illegal workers who ignored deportation orders are not eligible for the Z visa program, except in exceedingly rare cases in which they can demonstrate their departure would “result in extreme hardship.” FACT: The determination of what constitutes “extreme hardship” lies entirely within the discretion of the Secretary of Homeland Security, who has no interest in allowing this exception to be abused.

Unlike the cries of that the sky is falling from the right, these concerns from the far left are serious concerns. They are not getting what they wanted. Seems to me all the right people are pissed off on this bill. How many times did Cons hit liberals for incidentally allying themselves with al Qaeda on Iraq? Tons of times. Seems some kettles are going around calling some pots ‘black’. Look at the alliances against the bill – uber nationalists and anything goes lefties. No wonder this bill’s time has come.

Update: The hardliners are killing the GOP:

For a certain kind of conservative, any attempt to grant a legal status to illegal immigrants is as welcome as salsa on their apple pie. One conservative commentator claims that the law is “going to erase America” — an ambition even beyond Ted Kennedy’s considerable powers. Another laments that “white America is in flight” — and presumably not just to Jackson Hole or Nantucket for the summer.

If a Republican presidential candidate doesn’t get about 40 percent of the Latino vote nationwide, he or she doesn’t stand much of a chance on an electoral map where Florida and the Southwest figure prominently. A nativist party will cease to be a national party.

Breaking 40 percent is possible for Republicans. President Bush did it in 2004. Republican momentum among Hispanic voters has been strong in the past decade — until Rep. Tom Tancredo and his allies began their conflict with the fastest-growing segment of the electorate.

Conceding Latinos to the Democrats in perpetuity is a stunning failure of political confidence. If the Republican Party cannot find ways to appeal to natural entrepreneurs, with strong family values, who are focused on education and social mobility, then the GOP is already dead.

Well, some of it is dead anyway. The question is whether the condition is fatal or correctible. For our nation’s sake in the fight against al Qaeda I hope it is correctible. My fear is ,from what I have seen the last week, is it is probably fatal – to all of us. We will surrender to al Qaeda because some folks got all worked up over documenting undocumented workers. Just crazy.

159 responses so far

159 Responses to “Immigration Bill Rolls On”

  1. MerlinOS2 says:

    We are talking billions with a B to build the physical fence and fund the rest which is a virtual fence. The physical part is a one time sunk cost until it has to be replaced. But then you still have patrol costs. The virtual fence will have month to month recurring costs.

    With all the infrastructure costs that will have to be incurred to handle the population explosion the chain migration could result in, it would be cheaper in the long run to bribe the entire country to stay home and let them spend that money internally to boost and bootstrap their own economy.

  2. For Enforcement says:

    Some of the “facts” might be slightly believeable if the pg, section, item number of the bill were cited. It’s the ‘exceptions’ to the facts that are troubling. Latest prediction I’ve seen is that it will barely pass in the Senate and never come close in the House. I guess we’ll see.

  3. MerlinOS2 says:

    Yesterday, I happened to go to Daytona to be at the 30th anniversary party of a friend of the family.

    They live now in a condo complex.

    During the visit I saw something like I have never seen before.

    I have been there before and they always had two or three groundskeepers on the staff maintain the area.

    But this time I saw a virtual attack crew of by my count over 80 people with weed eaters and 15 or more riding mowers attack the place like a horde of locusts.

    They arrived in two buses, plus 2 moving van size trucks they offloaded equipment from.

    Less than an hour and they were gone and onto the next condo.

    I see no way that the contract cost for this kind of coverage could have been cheaper than the 3 or 4 full time employees unless illegals were involved at bear bones labor costs.

  4. For Enforcement says:

    What is the use of having laws if they are not going to be enforced?

    Left by momdear1

    momdear1…… a question like that? what are you? a hardliner? far right? regular American?

    Just kidding.

    .

  5. MerlinOS2 says:

    Enforcement

    I read the whole bill, but now the amendments are moving the target faster than they can be released to the web. I give little chance that the sites I access will keep up due to the holiday weekend.

    The version I read was the “draft” that was not in the “bill legal” form.

    I still haven’t accessed that one, but I understand if bumped the 300 plus page draft to over 700 pages due to the required formating and language requirements to make it fit the requirements.

    I might as well be trying to nail jello to a tree.

  6. MerlinOS2 says:

    Prior to going out to dinner for the anniversary party last night a bunch of us were watching cspan of the floor debate and the pages were having trouble keeping up with getting the changes to the bill and amendments out to all the senators before they voted on the amendments.

    Yet we are supposed to believe that this is a studied and deliberated process.

  7. MerlinOS2 says:

    I wonder if what I saw was a Friday hearing or a rerun.

    Did congress work Friday or did they split for home?

  8. MerlinOS2 says:

    Enforcement

    AJ can vouch for the fact that I am a person that goes to the source documents rather than rely on the talking heads.

    You have no idea how much time I spend reading BLS reports and other in depth documents from about 20 agencies I daily refer to.

    I also have bunches of blogs I read each night after taking an afternoon nap.

    In most cases I will give the url of the base document and then cut a quote, but it my experience that most people will leave it at that and not be bothered with checking out the product themselves.

    Too many treat a url as a good housekeeping seal of approval without doing their own leg work.

    This is understandable for those who involve themselves for less than an hour a day in their web surfing.

    At least when it is correct to do so I try to give links. That is better than the MSM which only gives us “anonymous sources”.

  9. MerlinOS2 says:

    Blogs are not just a nite time thing with me , I have a list of about 30 or so that I hit between other sites on an hourly basis looking for updates.

    All together I visit each day over 100 blogs and news sites because I am a detail junkie.

    Each day I accumulate reports in pdf format that I hope to read over the weekend but then trim them down to what is the most important after the gathering. Sometimes the Monday pdf may be not as valid or current by the time the weekend rolls around.

  10. retire05 says:

    How radical are the Dhimmicrats?
    With the voter fraud discovered in Bexar County (San Antonio) of thousands of foreign nationals who were registered to vote in Texas, the Voter Photo I.D. act was introduced into the Texas Senate which would require a photo I.D. to vote (Texas does not give driver’s licences to illegals, yet). The Texas Senate is pretty well split 50-50 Republican-Democrat.
    Knowing that his vote would be the swing vote blocking the Photo I.D. act, Mario Gallegos (D), who had a liver transplant three weeks ago, had a hospital bed furnished by friends in the Senate and place in a room off to the side of the Senate floor. Senate rules require a call to vote which will give Gallegos time to get to the floor (in a wheelchair) to vote AGAINST the Photo I.D. act.
    Gallegos’ doctor said that the Senator really needed to be in Houston near the hospital where his transplant was preformed and it was dangerous for him to stay in Austin. Gallegos (according to a friend that works for a Texas Senator) is going back and forth beteen the Senate building and his Austin apartment by an ambulance furnished by the Austin Fire Department (read, taxpayers) so that he can remain long enough to block the Photo I.D. act.

    When registering to vote in Texas, proof of United States citizenship is not required. There is simply a question “Are you legally allowed to vote in Texas” with a square to check “yes”. No verification is needed. Some voter registraur’s offices say that, in their area, the numer of non-citizen registered voters could be as high as 30%. If you register to vote at the registraur’s office, the forms of I.D. accepted are: paycheck stub, rent receipt, utility receipt, welfare card, birth certificate or passport and library cards.

  11. For Enforcement says:

    FACT: The bill would, for the first time, give the Departments of Homeland Security (DHS) and Justice (DOJ) tools to keep certain aliens out of the United States solely on the basis of their participation in a gang.
    No conviction is required – if an individual has associated with a gang and helped “aid” or “support” its illegal activity, then he or she is not allowed to remain in the country – even if he renounces his gang affiliation.

    quote from document:
    Page 267 lines 19-34 says:

    (1) Application Form.–The Secretary of Homeland Security
    shall create an application form that an alien shall be
    20 required to complete as a condition of obtaining Z
    21 nonimmigrant status.
    22
    23 (2) Application Information-
    24
    25 (A) In General.–The application form shall request
    26 such information as the Secretary deems necessary
    27 and appropriate, including but not limited to,
    28 information concerning the alienÂ’s physical and
    29 mental health; complete criminal history, including
    30 all arrests and dispositions; gang membership,
    31 renunciation of gang affiliation; immigration history;
    32 employment history; and claims to United States
    33 citizenship.
    34

    Page 268 lines 8-42

    (h) Treatment of Applicants-
    8
    9 (1) IN GENERAL- An alien who files an application for Z
    10 nonimmigrant status shall, upon submission of any
    11 evidence required under paragraphs (f) and (g) and after
    12 the Secretary has conducted appropriate background
    13 checks, to include name and fingerprint checks, that have
    14 not by the end of the next business day produced
    15 information rendering the applicant ineligible –
    16
    17 (A) be granted probationary benefits in the form of
    18 employment authorization pending final adjudication
    19 of the alien’s application;
    20
    21 (B) may in the SecretaryÂ’s discretion receive
    22 advance permission to re-enter the United States
    23 pursuant to existing regulations governing advance
    24 parole;
    25
    26 (C) may not be detained for immigration purposes,
    27 determined inadmissible or deportable, or removed
    28 pending final adjudication of the alien’s application,
    29 unless the alien is determined to be ineligible for Z
    30 nonimmigrant status; and
    31
    32 (D) may not be considered an unauthorized alien (as
    33 defined in section 274A(h)(3) of the Immigration and
    34 Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1324a(h)(3))) unless
    35 employment authorization under subparagraph (A) is
    36 denied.
    37
    38 (2) Timing of Probationary Benefits.—No probationary
    39 benefits shall be issued to an alien until the alien has
    40 passed all appropriate background checks or the end of the
    41 next business day, whichever is sooner.
    42

    page 269 lines 37-42

    (i) Adjudication of Application Filed by Alien.—
    37
    38 (1) In General.–The Secretary may approve the issuance
    39 of documentation of status, as described in subsection (j),
    40 to an applicant for a Z nonimmigrant visa who satisfies the
    41 requirements of this section.
    42

    Facts can be tricky things.

    These quotes seem to say that gang members can still get a Z non-immigrant status even if they have or have not filed a renunciation of there gang membership or affiliation. .

  12. For Enforcement says:

    Merlin, I wasn’t questioning your facts. I was questioning the facts in the original post. I have recently posted( it hasn’t shown up yet) one of those facts with some material from the draft bill. I’m still using the 326 page version until a newer one is posted.
    Thanks, I enjoy reading your comments. FE

  13. For Enforcement says:

    I wonder if what I saw was a Friday hearing or a rerun.

    a rerun, they were out of town

  14. Bikerken says:

    You don’t need to be a US citizen to get a drivers license. Anybody here in a legal status can get one. The Federal law requires the DMV to register voters when they get their license. They DO NOT ask what your citizenship status is. As a matter of fact, in some states it is against the law, like here in CA, and some places have even tried to make it law for NON-citizens to have voting rights as New York did last year. Don’t you see whats going on here? If they go to the DMV and start getting drivers licenses, by the time the fight over as to whether or not they have the right to vote, the 08 election will be over! This will essentially give a foreign country the deciding vote in our elections. Gee, what else can we give away?

    MomDear1 is exactly right about the anarchy angle. When our children grow up in an environment where seemingly nobody has any regard for the law, they start to think, then why should I? It doesn’t mean anything anymore. That’s what I have been saying about the dangers of a lawless culture. Mexicans only follow the rules when it is convienient for them. Otherwise, all of that law stuff is just something for someone else.

    The surge is already starting at the border. My ICE friends say they are already starting to see it. Like I said, the border is going to look like a city bus accident in NYC. One person on the bus when it hits a phone poll, one-hundred victims with back injuries when the ambulance gets there. This is going to be ugly no matter what happens.

  15. For Enforcement says:

    Since my other comment on the subject didn\’t show up, I\’ll put this one in. It is copied from the Document and I\’ve changed it only by making bold the pertinent parts about gang membership and the exclusions:

    Pages 48-51
    5/18/2007 48
    SEC. 205. INCREASED CRIMINAL PENALTIES RELATED TO GANG
    7
    VIOLENCE AND REMOVAL.

    8
    (a) DEFINITION OF CRIMINAL GANG. Section 101(a) of the
    9 Immigration and Nationality
    10
    Act (8 U.S.C. 1101(a)) is amended by inserting after subparagraph
    11
    (51) the following:
    12
    13
    .(52) The term .criminal gang.
    14
    (a) means an ongoing group, club, organization, or
    15
    association of 5 or more persons–
    16
    (1) that has as 1 of its primary purposes the
    17
    commission of 1 or more of the criminal offenses
    18
    described in subsection (b); and
    19
    20
    (2) the members of which engage, or have engaged
    21
    within the past 5 years, in a continuing series of
    22
    offenses described in subsection (b);
    23
    24
    (b) Offenses described in this section, whether in violation
    25
    of Federal or State law or in violation of the law of a
    26
    foreign country, and regardless of whether charged, are:
    27
    28
    (1) a .felony drug offense. (as defined in section 102
    29
    of the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. 802));
    30
    31
    (2) a felony offense involving firearms or explosives
    32
    or in violation of section 931 of title 18 (relating to
    33
    purchase, ownership, or possession of body armor by
    34
    violent felons);
    35
    36
    (3) an offense under section 274 (relating to bringing
    37
    in and harboring certain aliens), section 277 (relating
    38
    to aiding or assisting certain aliens to enter the
    39
    United States), or section 278 (relating to the
    40
    importation of an alien for immoral purpose) of the
    41
    Immigration and Nationality Act;
    42
    DRAFT – FOR DISCUSSION PURPOSES ONLY
    May 18, 2007 11:58 p.m.

    5/18/2007 49
    1
    (4) a felony crime of violence as defined in section
    2
    16 of title 18, which is punishable by a sentence of
    3
    imprisonment of five years or more;
    4
    5
    (5) a crime involving obstruction of justice;
    6
    tampering with or retaliating against a witness,
    7
    victim, or informant; or burglary;
    8
    9
    (6) Any conduct punishable under sections 1028 and
    10
    1029 of title 18 (relating to fraud and related activity
    11
    in connection with identification documents or access
    12
    devices), sections 1581 through 1594 of title 18
    13
    (relating to peonage, slavery and trafficking in
    14
    persons), section 1952 of title 18 (relating to
    15
    interstate and foreign travel or transportation in aid
    16
    of racketeering enterprises), section 1956 of title 18
    17
    (relating to the laundering of monetary instruments),
    18
    section 1957 of title 18 (relating to engaging in
    19
    monetary transactions in property derived from
    20
    specified unlawful activity), or sections 2312 through
    21
    2315 of title 18 (relating to interstate transportation
    22
    of stolen motor vehicles or stolen property);
    23
    24
    (7) a conspiracy to commit an offense described in
    25
    subparagraphs (1)-(6).
    26
    27
    .Notwithstanding any other provision of law
    28
    (including any effective date), the term applies regardless
    29
    of whether the conduct occurred before, on, or after the
    30
    date of enactment of this provision…
    31
    32
    (b) INADMISSIBILITY- Section 212(a)(2) (8 U.S.C. 1182(a)(2)) is
    33
    amended–
    34
    (A) by redesignating subparagraph (F) as
    35
    subparagraph (J); and
    36
    (B) by inserting after subparagraph (E) the
    37
    following:
    38
    `(F) ALIENS ASSOCIATED WITH CRIMINAL
    39
    GANGS- Unless the Secretary of Homeland
    40
    Security or the Attorney General waives the
    41
    application of this subparagraph,
    any alien who
    42
    a consular officer, the Attorney General, or the
    43
    Secretary of Homeland Security knows or has
    44
    DRAFT – FOR DISCUSSION PURPOSES ONLY
    May 18, 2007 11:58 p.m.

    5/18/2007 50
    reason to believe has participated in a criminal
    1
    gang (as defined in section 101(a)(52)),
    2
    knowing or having reason to know that such
    3
    participation promoted, furthered, aided, or
    4
    supported the illegal activity of the criminal
    5
    gang, is inadmissible.\’.

    6
    7
    (c) DEPORTABILITY. Section 237(a)(2) of the Immigration and
    8
    Nationality Act (8
    9
    U.S.C. 1227(a)(2)) is amended by adding at the end the following:
    10
    11
    .(F) ALIENS ASSOCIATED WITH CRIMINAL GANGS- Any alien, in or
    12
    admitted to the United States, who at any time has participated in a
    13
    criminal gang (as defined in section 101(a)(52)), knowing or having
    14
    reason to know that such participation will promote, further, aid, or
    15
    supportthe illegal activity of the criminal gang is deportable. The
    16
    Secretary of Homeland Security or the Attorney General may in his
    17
    discretion waive this subparagraph..

    18
    19
    (d) TEMPORARY PROTECTED STATUS. Section 244 (8 U.S.C. 1254a) is
    20
    amended.
    21
    22
    (1) by striking .Attorney General. each place it appears and
    23
    inserting .Secretary
    24
    of Homeland Security.;
    25
    26
    (2) in subparagraph (c)(2)(B), by adding at the end:
    27
    28
    .(iii) the alien participates in, or at any time after admission has
    29
    participated in, the activities of a criminal gang (as defined in
    30
    section 101(a)(52)), knowing or having reason to know that
    31
    such participation will promote, further, aid, or support
    32
    the illegal activity of the criminal gang..; and
    33
    34
    (3) in subsection (d).
    35
    36
    (A) by striking paragraph (3); and
    37
    38
    (B) in paragraph (4), by adding at the end the following:
    39
    .The Secretary of Homeland Security may detain an alien
    40
    provided temporary protected status under this section
    41
    whenever appropriate under any other provision..
    42
    43
    44
    DRAFT – FOR DISCUSSION PURPOSES ONLY
    May 18, 2007 11:58 p.m.

    (e) Penalties Related to Removal- Section 243 (8 U.S.C. 1253) is
    1
    amended–
    2
    (1) in subsection (a)(1)–
    3
    (A) in the matter preceding subparagraph (A), by
    4
    inserting `212(a) or\’ after `section\’; and
    5
    (B) in the matter following subparagraph (D)–
    6
    (i) by striking `or imprisoned not more than
    7
    four years\’ and inserting `and imprisoned for
    8
    not more than 5 years\’; and
    9
    (ii) by striking `, or both\’;
    10
    (2) in subsection (b), by striking `not more than $1000 or
    11
    imprisoned for not more than one year, or both\’ and
    12
    inserting `under title 18, United States Code, and
    13
    imprisoned for not more than 5 years (or for not more
    14
    than 10 years if the alien is a member of any of the classes
    15
    described in paragraphs (1)(E), (2), (3), and (4) of section
    16
    237(a)).\’; and
    17
    18
    (f) Prohibiting Carrying or Using a Firearm During and in Relation to an
    19
    Alien Smuggling Crime- Section 924(c) of title 18, United States Code,
    20
    is amended–
    21
    (1) in paragraph (1)–
    22
    (A) in subparagraph (A), by inserting `, alien
    23
    smuggling crime,\’ after `any crime of violence\’;
    24
    (B) in subparagraph (A), by inserting `, alien
    25
    smuggling crime,\’ after `such crime of violence\’;
    26
    (C) in subparagraph (D)(ii), by inserting `, alien
    27
    smuggling crime,\’ after `crime of violence\’; and
    28
    (2) by adding at the end the following:
    29
    `(6) For purposes of this subsection, the term `alien smuggling
    30
    crime\’ means any felony punishable under section 274(a), 277,
    31
    or 278 of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1324(a),
    32
    1327, and 1328).\’.
    33

    So while the FACT is that they are deportable or inadmissable, all of that can be waived just by discretion. We, of course, have to assume that if the Sec. sees fit NOT ot waive it, then he has the right to the full appeals process, all the while, not being deportable or even detainable. .

    Funny how truth gets in the way of FACTs at times.

  16. retire05 says:

    There are only six states have have a population greater than the number of illegal immigrants already here; California, New York, Illionois, Texas, Pennslyvania and Florida.

    If you were to give them their own states it would require giving Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky and Idaho to house them.

  17. For Enforcement says:

    I wrote two long comments about gang members and facts but neither have shown up (maybe too long) Sometimes they show up later, but if you want to read in the document, here is a link, go to the listed pages.

    http://www.c-span.org/pdf/Immigration%20Draft%2005-18-07.pdf

    Read Sec 205 on page 48-51 about Gang members

    and then read pages 146-148 about gang member eligibility for both Y and Z visas

    .

  18. lurker9876 says:

    You don’t need to be a US citizen to get a drivers license. Anybody here in a legal status can get one.

    Clarification is needed. I was referring to voter’s rights. I still would hope that all registered voters ARE verified as US citizens before they get on those lists on voting days.

  19. retire05 says:

    Lurker, I don’t know about other states, but in Texas you do NOT have to prove citizenship to obtain a voter card. All you have to do is swear to be a citizen. No documentation required. That is one of the reasons there were thousands of illegals registered in Bexar County (San Antonio).
    You can go to your own state’s web site and learn what the requirements are to vote and if they require documentation of citizenry.

  20. For Enforcement says:

    FACT: Illegal workers who ignored deportation orders are not eligible for the Z visa program,

    True Fact: the words ‘ignored deportation order’ or ‘ignored deportation orders’ or ‘deportation order’ or ‘deportation orders’
    are not contained in the draft bill.

    AJ, I have gone to the trouble to check out some of the Myth busters( which by the way are in a Mexican paper) so far, not of his facts are verifiable from the draft document. If you know of any that are, I would sure appreciate knowing about them.