May 25 2007
Immigration Bill Rolls On
The Immigration Bill is rolling ahead in the Senate.
By a vote of 66-29, senators rejected an amendment by Republican Party legislator David Vitter to eliminate a provision that offers legal status to most of the 12 million illegal immigrants living in the United States.
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The Senate also narrowly rejected a proposal by Republican Norm Coleman to allow state and local law enforcement agencies to help enforce immigration laws.
I have issue with some things changed or not included – especially Coleman’s proposal. Hopefully it will go back in at conference. Of course, if the hard right would vote to strengthen the bill instead of gutting it things would be better. Coleman lost by 2 votes. Perfect is the evil of good and continuing with the status quo is dangerous. So as along as the ability to deport criminals stays in under a one-strike-your-out feature this bill is keeping my support. That feature alone makes this bill worth keeping. But we need the guest worker program to get background checks (criminal records) and to provide IDs to those checked and cleared. So far good enough.
Update: Myth busting the myth peddlers:
FACT: The bill would, for the first time, give the Departments of Homeland Security (DHS) and Justice (DOJ) tools to keep certain aliens out of the United States solely on the basis of their participation in a gang.
No conviction is required – if an individual has associated with a gang and helped “aid” or “support” its illegal activity, then he or she is not allowed to remain in the country – even if he renounces his gang affiliation.…
ACT: After the family backlog is cleared in the first eight years after enactment, the bill will eliminate about 190,000 extended family visas per year. By contrast, the category of “extreme hardship” cases is capped at 5,000 visas per year.
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FACT: Illegal workers who ignored deportation orders are not eligible for the Z visa program, except in exceedingly rare cases in which they can demonstrate their departure would “result in extreme hardship.” FACT: The determination of what constitutes “extreme hardship” lies entirely within the discretion of the Secretary of Homeland Security, who has no interest in allowing this exception to be abused.
Unlike the cries of that the sky is falling from the right, these concerns from the far left are serious concerns. They are not getting what they wanted. Seems to me all the right people are pissed off on this bill. How many times did Cons hit liberals for incidentally allying themselves with al Qaeda on Iraq? Tons of times. Seems some kettles are going around calling some pots ‘black’. Look at the alliances against the bill – uber nationalists and anything goes lefties. No wonder this bill’s time has come.
Update: The hardliners are killing the GOP:
For a certain kind of conservative, any attempt to grant a legal status to illegal immigrants is as welcome as salsa on their apple pie. One conservative commentator claims that the law is “going to erase America” — an ambition even beyond Ted Kennedy’s considerable powers. Another laments that “white America is in flight” — and presumably not just to Jackson Hole or Nantucket for the summer.
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If a Republican presidential candidate doesn’t get about 40 percent of the Latino vote nationwide, he or she doesn’t stand much of a chance on an electoral map where Florida and the Southwest figure prominently. A nativist party will cease to be a national party.
Breaking 40 percent is possible for Republicans. President Bush did it in 2004. Republican momentum among Hispanic voters has been strong in the past decade — until Rep. Tom Tancredo and his allies began their conflict with the fastest-growing segment of the electorate.
Conceding Latinos to the Democrats in perpetuity is a stunning failure of political confidence. If the Republican Party cannot find ways to appeal to natural entrepreneurs, with strong family values, who are focused on education and social mobility, then the GOP is already dead.
Well, some of it is dead anyway. The question is whether the condition is fatal or correctible. For our nation’s sake in the fight against al Qaeda I hope it is correctible. My fear is ,from what I have seen the last week, is it is probably fatal – to all of us. We will surrender to al Qaeda because some folks got all worked up over documenting undocumented workers. Just crazy.
Retire05, if that is the c ase, then our state government had better verify US citizenship of its vote registration. When I registered years ago, I didn’t have to show them proof of US citizenship. Yes, I live in Texas.
FACT: Illegal workers who ignored deportation orders are not eligible for the Z visa program,
True Fact: the words ‘ignored deportation orders’ or ‘ignored deportation order’ or ‘deportation order’ or ‘deportation orders’ are not in the draft bill.
I wonder where mythbusters got their FACTs from. Clearly not the draft bill.
I have researched some of these FACTs and can’t find any actual sources for them, just talking points. Seems as if someone is going to dispute a myth with a
that they would put the ‘source’ of their fact. I notice the mythbuster that is linked to is from Mexico.
wow, 4 comments all ate up. I hope they eventually appear.
Look at this little detail:
Page 1 says:
(a) With the exception of the probationary benefits conferred by
Section 601(h), the provisions of Subtitle C of Title IV, and the 9
admission of aliens under Section 101(a)(15)(H)(ii) of the Immigration 10
and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1101(a)(15)(H)(ii)), as amended by Title 11
IV, 12
13
(i) the programs established by Title IV of this Act; and 14
(ii) the programs established by Title VI of this Act that grant 15
legal status to any individual or adjust the current status of any 16
individual who is unlawfully present in the United States to that 17
of an alien lawfully admitted for permanent residence, 18
19
shall become effective on the date that the Secretary submits a written 20
certification to the President and the Congress that the following 21
border security and other measures are funded, in place, and in 22
operation: 23
24
(1) Staff Enhancements for Border Patrol: The U.S. Customs and 25
Border Protection (CBP) Border Patrol has, in its continued effort 26
to increase the number of agents and support staff, hired 18,000 27
agents; 28
But look at the hiring schedule, note that it only totals 14000, so when are they gonna hire the 18000 required?
5/18/2007 4
`(1) 2,000 in fiscal year 2007; 38
`(2) 2,400 in fiscal year 2008; 39
DRAFT – FOR DISCUSSION PURPOSES ONLY
May 18, 2007 11:58 p.m.
`(3) 2,400 in fiscal year 2009; 1
`(4) 2,400 in fiscal year 2010; 2
`(5) 2,400 in fiscal year 2011; and 3
‘(6) 2,400 in fiscal year 2012. 4
But it doesn’t matter, see that little, almost un-noticeable, little ditty
that says “(a) With the exception of the probationary benefits conferred by Section 601(h), ”
That little exception is basically everything goes ahead immediately awaiting the completion of the triggers.
So, it says nothing will be done until the trigger occurs, but then let’s everything go until the trigger occurs. Crazy huh.
Hey these are the words for the bill itself, not a hyperventilating hardliner. Facts are strange things.
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Lurker, Texas is trying to pass the Photo Voter I.D. act. The swing vote is Senator Mario Gallegos who has a liver transplant three weeks ago. (I posted all this in a post that did not make the cut). Gallegos (D) does not want this bill to go through so he has a hospital bed moved into the Senate building in a room off the floor of the Senate. As the Senators are notified of the upcoming vote, Gallegos (who is, remember, the swing vote that will defeat the bill) intends to be wheeled into the Senate floor in a wheel chair to vote against the bill. This in the light of all the illegal registrations in Bexar County revealed last week.
The Democrats know that with the Photo Voter I.D. act, illegals will not be able to register since they are not (so far) allowed driver’s licences in Texas.
Gallegos seems to have no problem with spending your tax money. Every day he is transported by ambulance (courtesy of the Austin Fire Departmen) to and from his Austin apartment so that he can be at the Senate when this bill comes up.
Gallegos had to have a liver transplant due to his extreme alcoholism. He was so bad that fellow Senators did an “intervention” on him last year to try to get him to quit drinking. He can be equated with Gonzolo Barrientos, who wrote the Texas drunk driving laws but has been arrested twice for drunk driving.
I do not expect the Photo Voter I.D. bill to pass as it will take a majority and Gallegos will provide the Democrat majority to defeat the bill.
FE, it really doesn’t matter what this bill says. We were promised at the time of the ’86 amnesty that it would make things better. So almost 3 million illegals were granted full amnesty and now we have 12 million is just 10 years (Border Patrol claims say closer to 20 million). We were promised just last year that we would get over 700 miles of fencing on the southern border. The new bill has reduced it to less that 400 miles.
Why should we, the American people, trust our elected elites to do anything they say they will do when, in just one year, they move the bar and change the rules again?
Not withstanding that this bill will virtually kill the Republican party making it the minority party for generations, it will also be a financial nightmare and will require increase taxation. You cannot make this pig a silk purse, no matter how you try.
Rasmussen is reporting that the majority of those polled last week do not want this bill.
Facts are facts and the fact that those who accept this bill as “the best we can do” are not really taking into consideration even the short term affect it will have on the American taxpayer, the job market for unskilled Americans (blacks will suffer the most) and the additional costs for social services.
From Hugh Hewitt
http://hughhewitt.townhall.com/
Secretary Chertoff told me I was wrong. He argued that providing probationary status to every illegal who turns in their paperwork would be useful in the effort to find the terrorists hidden in our own country. If I understand him correctly, he believes that the covert terrorists ill be afraid to turn in the paperwork and will thus be left much more exposed as everyone else will have their probationary documents.
Since the Sec of Homeland Security has now told the ‘covert terrorists’ that the DHS thinks they will not turn in their paperwork and so we will ‘know’ who the terrorists are, I suppose they will now just turn in their fake paperwork and be ‘above’ suspicion. Sounds like a good strategy. We’re all using our heads, aren’t we?
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Retire05, you’re right. If you read what I said, the bill only proves not nobody is serious about wanting to control anything. Everytime you or I say anything that we know or think, we get accused of myths, making it up, etc. So I decided that when I said something about the proposed bill I would ‘quote’ specifically where it came from. Everything I’ve quoted in it so far has proven that nothing will happen. Just look at that post above that says nothing will happen but the probationary exclusions until after 18000 border agents are hired, then it goes on to give a schedule over the next 6 years where they don’t even target but 14000 hires and many of those are just replacements, not additions, therefore never getting to the 18000. But then, those exclusions that they give that can occur ‘before’ the agents are hired include “everything” It’s all doublespeak. I’ll bet that no more than 5 Senators at the most have even read this draft. And that would be a stretch. They are just relying on people to tell them what they want to hear.
So, R05, I read you and like your comments. I’m a ‘hardliner’ (better known as someone that wants the laws enforced) or far right.
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FE, I have been accused of being a law breaker because it was assumed that I, at one time or another, had received a traffic violation citation. I have not. Nor have I ever paid my taxes late, cheated on my taxes, violated any city ordinence or otherwise broke any law. Why? I believe that most laws are designed for the common good. If I spend three months out of town, I have to hire someone to mow my lawn because there is a city ordinence against letting your grass grow over a certain height.
I also don’t try to spin an argument. I have, on multiple occassions, presented valid questions to those who are pro-illegal on this board only to be called down as a “hardliner” with no answers to my questions.
Border Patrol agent recruitment goals are not being met. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out why. And the number of those in the BP requesting retirement and early retirement are at all time highs. But none of that makes any difference if we don’t allow them to do their job. I posted a letter the BP Local 2544 has written to Senator Kyl. No response from the pro-illegal crowd who seem resigned to accepting a bad bill in leiu of no bill. Perhaps they have no objection to the entire face of America changing, but I kinda like our nation and would like for my grandchildren to know the America I have known.
With each passing year we, as a nation, are drifting closer and closer to total socialism. One only has to read the writings of the Founding Fathers to realize that the America they dreamed of is rapidly becoming a distant memory. Hard work, ambition, and self reliance are no longer rewarded. After spending a year on the gulf coast after Katrina, I can tell you that my faith in Americans and human nature was NOT restored. Everyone is looking for a free ride with the opinion that the government owes them. Never mind that it is not the government’s money, it is money we paid in taxes on wages we earned by our hard work.
Perhaps there are those who want a one-party system. I know this is a goal of Hillary Clinton and Teddy Kennedy. But it is not good for America and the Founders knew this.
For those who are sitting in some upper middle class neighborhood and think that this immigration bill is good I say this “come to my neighborhood. Come see what illegal immigration has done to my area of Texas.” They would not stay.
Water shortages? What water shortages? We were just notified that all the TVA lakes will be lower, a lot lower, some now look like mud holes, this year as a result of insufficient rainfall. But it seemed like it rained almost every day here all winter. And then there was that story about the Canadians forming protest groups to fight US commercial interests who are wheeling and dealing with “friendly” Canadian politicains to pipe Canadian water all the way down to Texas. And a reminder: You can’t drink the water in Mexico because those nasty people deficate and urinate in their drinking water. We already have them importing drug resistant TB, Leporsy, brain eating worms, and other diseases into the country. What happened to the health checks? It used to be that anyone with TB and Syphilis couldn’t come here.
And FE, do you believe what Michael Chertoff says? Several years years ago, while he was head of the Criminal Justice wing of the Justice Dept., Michael Chertoff wrote me to tell me that dishonest businessmen, professionals and political insiders, in conjunction with the Maryville (TN ) Collection Service , using the Loudon Co. TN Small Claims Court, presided over the Judge William Russell, to extort money from people by filing false claims against them, and the Judge refusing to even look at documents proving the claims were false, was out of the jurisdiction of the US Justice dept and that it was a state and local matter. However, The Justice Dept did come down here and bust just about everybody in one county for chicken fighting. It seems chickens and illegal aliens need protection more than US citizens.
So what is the deal here? I have entered two posts, neither of which have made it on the board? Is it possible that the owner if this site is “monitoring” responses? If that is the case, just notify posters that all responses are subject to site owners approval and we will be fully informed that if they are not in keeping with the opinions of the owners, they will not survive.
Retire05 , AJ wouldn’t censor comments. It’s a software issue I’m sure. Sometimes if there are too many line breaks or the comments are too long and things like that. AJ probably hasn’t even looked at the traffic today, at least I haven’t seen where he’s responded to anything. I have had 4 comments on this thread alone today that haven’t made it, but 2 of them were lengthy and lots of line breaks. I think it’s a software (word press) problem. They usually show up when AJ looks and releases them.
And FE, do you believe what Michael Chertoff says?
he has little credibility with me. Doesn’t seem to know his job or what is expected of him….
For a moment set aside the politics of the bill and watch this video that I linked in an earlier post and view what this amnesty will create.
http://tinyurl.com/ylemgu
yea, i saw that about a month or so ago, back the first time you linked it. I think it should be required homework for all congress people.
FE, I’ll be the first to admit I am not a computer guru. I just know that AJ and I have been at odds before because I won’t agree with his take on IL-legal immigration.
I am so sick of terms to describe those of us who believe in the rule of law as right wing (name your favorite term; racist, fanatic, hardliner). Why is it that anyone who believes in the rule of law is now a bigot?
Would we be considered the same if it were French Canadians that were coming across our borders by the millions and we objected to that?
FE
Time must be stretching for you, it was only a couple of days ago on another immigration related post AJ did.
R05
I oppose the bill not based on the politics of it , but just on the fact is not a workable thing and will only if passed encourage more like the last two did.
We had bills in 65 and 84 if my dates are right where we took a left hook and a right jab and this bill is only extending it with a big bend over and asking “thank you sir , may I have another”.
Yes it would be nice if we could spread fairy dust and solve all the world’s problems, but does anyone think that is in the cards?
There are just too many bad guys out there that keep mucking that effort up for all their own reasons.
Perspective is needed as to costs, impacts and real world issues that would be required to come to pass if this bill succeeds in any where near it’s present form or whatever it morphs to.
Right now they are driving like a drunk teenager hurling his hemibomb down the highway in a false sense of achieving manhood.
It’s all fun until it involves something that friends and relatives have to put someone in the ground and suffer the tears of the loss.
Merlin,
i saw that one a couple days ago, but I had already seen it about a month ago, I just presumed it was you that had linked it then also.
05
I know what you mean. I’m pretty sure the only thing I think much different from AJ on is on this illegal alien thing. I can’t figure out how anyone that thinks exactly like I do on 99% of the political subjects in the world could be exactly 180 on this illegals thing. I assume his intentions are good, just don’t see why his position is basically conservative on everything and ultra extreme liberal on illegals.
We’re not gonna change his mind and he’s gonna keep calling us hardliners (another name for people that want laws enforced) and we’re not gonna change ours. But hey, when I state something about this bill, I’m gonna cite page and line numbers. I’m not listening to mythbusters, he only is spouting the lib line and never cites a source for his self-generated “FACTS”
I’m presuming the draft bill is the correct source for info on this thing, but I realize they have voted on amendments but aren’t publishing them, for some reason.
FE
Even on the Senate floor the talk is of the amendment contents and there is very little reference to the base bill they are working from.
It’s like it’s a ghost or something.