May 30 2007
Bush’s Sister Soldjah Moment On Immigration
Those on the far right of the immigration issue have lived on exaggeration and wild, unsubstantiated claims. The readers on this site who twist the need for a manageable and enforceable guest worker program into cries of amnesty and voting rights for immigrants are the classic example of a lack of any good argument being covered up by hysterics. The country is fed up with the status quo and wants the immigrants to come forward, be checked and identified and given tamper proof IDs so we can enforce the laws, boot the criminals and hold employers accountable for not checking for those pesky tamper proof IDs. And the folks barring the gate to these needed changes (especially the booting of criminal immigrants) are the same folks who flaunt stories of violent crimes by immigrants (legal and otherwise) as the reason we cannot make the changes to get rid of the bad apples.
President Bush knows this hyperventilating minority has become incoherent due to their frustration and anger at being marginalized. The more hype they pile on the already piled up rhetoric further alienates the immigration hard liners from the broader group of Americans who, by 2-1 or higher, back the guest worker program as a pragmatic (if not perfect) solution. The best we will see in a decade if it fails again. So it is no surprise Bush (and many of us) are going through a Sister Soldjah moment to distance ourselves from the useless and anti-productive exaggerations coming from the hard liners in order to win some sanity and progress – finally – on this issue:
“If you want to scare the American people, what you say is the bill’s an amnesty bill,†Mr. Bush said at a training center for customs protection agents and other federal agents here in southeastern Georgia. “That’s empty political rhetoric trying to frighten our citizens.â€
It was some of Mr. Bush’s toughest language as he started an intensified effort to build support for the compromise bill in the Senate.
Tough but accurate. The hardliners find any option for illegals to pay restitution and get legal work status “amnesty”. They have taken a legitimate concern about giving illegal immigrants immediate citizenship and totally pollluted it with wild fantasies and over the top exaggerations. And to what end? To kill off change. It is long past time we let the immigration-hypochondriacs stew on some real changes – since they fear change over everything else. They wring their hands whether we do something or not. So let’s do something!
Their concerns are based primarily on science fiction built upon wild extrapolations while assuming no good whatsoever can come of any solution. Basically they are the purveyors of the pathological example – which has as much chance of coming true as man made Global Warming. The interesting thing has been the more they post and voice their wild claims the less credible I (and many others I suspect) find them, and the easier it is to move past them and build new alliances. Like most doomed movements, sometimes the best path to victory is to let them speak and share their unique views. They are their own worst enemy – we simply just need to point out the wild exaggerations and unserious claims. Not to mention the fact what they say they want addressed cannot be addressed because they are blocking progress. Want immigrant criminals to get booted? Pass the Bill. Otherwise we are stuck right were we are now – unable to enforce the laws because current laws don’t work the way people think they do.
Much of the Guest Worker program will work and will produce results. Many peolpe will be targeted for deportation based on their criminal past. Those that stay know they must behave and know they are not hidden from the system since they had to have been processed to stay. But these needed changes are irrelevant to the hardliners. In their realities their is no hope no matter what we do. Which is why it is time to set them aside and get something accomplished.
AJ,
Again, I think you are missing the boat. The real issue is start engorcing the laws & the borders THEN decide the what to do w/ the illegals. Nothing else makes any sense. And we don’t need any more useless laws to accomplish this.
PMII,
Maybe, authorization for tamper resistant ID cards. Maybe, funding for a record keeping system. Maybe, the tools for employers to verify their job applicants. Maybe, a guest worker plan that reduces the need for “enforcement.”
How are we going to pay for Social Security, Medicare, medicaid and a slew of other government programs for the 12 to 20 million illegals who over night become legal?
conservativered,
By encorporating the young immigrant workers into the system, SS might just be saved from the slow death occasioned by our 2.1 birth rate.
And don’t forget the millions of unclaimed SS dollars in the system due to the fake SS numbers used by many illegals.
It’s not a zero sum game.
when the border is secured all things are possible. i’m not talking about the faux security in this and prior bills. real security from coast to coast. until then we’re all whistling past the graveyard in terms of reduced illegls swarming across the border.
the white house and their supporters should stop trotting out the hobgoblins about this is the best bill that we can hope for. they said that about the last one and the one before it all the way back to 1965. if you want some ‘comedy central’ moments you should read ted kennedy’s quotes as he touted each as the final long awaited solution to the plague of illegal immigration!
The Macker
The numbers do not support your position. The demand for services from low wage immigrants will not be enough to cover their costs.
Macker, I don’t believe that workers that are paid under the table are paying into the SS system and their employers are not either. However, once this amnesty for all bill passes, they will be able to CLAIM that they paid into the SS system and get credit for it. If you want to save SS you’re gonna have to privatize it..
And I don’t believe in man-made global warming.
Note: comment by a hardliner(another name for someone that wants the laws enforced)
conservativered,
Low wage workers pay a disproportionate share of sales tax.
SS retirement benefits are proportional to employee contributions.
Thus, it’s a bit more complex what the numbers show. But one thing is clear: That the US needs an added younger work force both to do the work and to support the SS program.
Those on the far right of the immigration issue have lived on exaggeration and wild, unsubstantiated claims.
The readers on this site who twist the need for a manageable and enforceable guest worker program into cries of amnesty and voting rights for immigrants are the classic example of a lack of any good argument being covered up by hysterics
On the other hand, why must a successful guest worker program, which I am in favor of, have anything to do with amnesty or citizenship or voting rights? I’ve not seen all this business about ‘wild and unsubstantiated claims, I guess I’m not visiting the ‘far right’ sites, and don’t intend to.
The country is fed up with the status quo and wants the immigrants to come forward, be checked and identified and given tamper proof IDs so we can enforce the laws, boot the criminals and hold employers accountable for not checking for those pesky tamper proof ID’s
And that’s exactly why so many don’t like this bill, it doesn’t accomplish ANY of those things. I see it as just another set of laws passed because past laws weren’t enforced and someone wants to feel like we are DOING something. We are, we’re making them legal WITHOUT any repercussions. The very first page clearly states that everyone is given immediate probationary status and there are no provisions for ever ending that probationary status. People repeatedly stating that it does, and that includes the President, does not change facts. I note that they never dispute anything that is quoted word for word from the law, they just claim people are hysterical, etc.
That’s because the “draft bill” is the best proof, just quote from it verbatim and if you’re paying attention, you can’t find anything in it other than “forgiveness”(some refer to it as amnesty) But for the sake of harmony we’ll just call it ‘forgiveness’
President Bush knows this hyperventilating minority has become incoherent due to their frustration and anger at being marginalized. The more hype they pile on the already piled up rhetoric further alienates the immigration hard liners from the broader group of Americans
Actually it’s quickly, once they read the bill, becoming the hyperventilating majority. Then I would suggest he pile up some ‘truth hype’ on top of it. Unfortunately when the ‘truth’ is piled on, it turns more and more against it. It’s amazing how the truth can get in the way of facts.
“If you want to scare the American people, what you say is the bill’s an amnesty bill,†Mr. Bush said
That’s why he is insisting that it’s not an amnesty bill. But, I don’t care how it’s spun, paying a minor fine to get ‘forgiveness’ is still amnesty.
The hardliners find any option for illegals to pay restitution and get legal work status “amnestyâ€.
That’s because a pig in a poke is still a pig in a poke.
They have taken a legitimate concern about giving illegal immigrants immediate citizenship and totally pollluted it with wild fantasies and over the top exaggerations.
So even tho they’re ‘hysterical’ you say it’s still a “legitimate concern about giving illegal immigrants immediate citizenship ”
And why wouldn’t they be hysterical? Why not just have a guest worker program with just the ‘right to be a guest worker’ why does it have to involve amnesty or citizenship?
Macker
Thus, it’s a bit more complex what the numbers show. But one thing is clear: That the US needs an added younger work force both to do the work and to support the SS program.
No, if they privatize SS and pass the Fair Tax, that’ll take care of the problem.
On principle, I’m not opposed to some sort of path to legalization for a substantial portion of the current illegal alien population.
However, and this is where I just can’t go along with Bush, or with you AJ, I think it is absolutely critical to secure the borders and assess the situation after we do so, before we make any decisions about legalization.
I also think legalization must be tied to (1) exclusion of nationals of countries with ties to terrorism, (2) mastery of written and spoken English, (3) active and permanent renunciation of former citizenship, (4) absolutely clean records here (any arrest that doesn’t result in acquital or a ‘no prosecution’ decision means back to wherever), (5) only immediate family reunification, and (6) and end to anchor citizenship.
I know the Democrats would gut the enforcement provisions of the proposed law as quickly as they can, and I simply do not trust either Bush or the Republicans in Congress to stop them.
My position: I was fooled once on immigration in 1986 (let’s not even get into 1965), and I want proof – through effective border enforcement – that any compromise will be carried out fully as promised, BEFORE we support the compromise bill.
No need to deport the illegals now, just enforce existing law as they come into view, and secure the border. Now.
The country is fed up with the status quo and wants the immigrants to come forward, be checked and identified and given tamper proof IDs so we can enforce the laws, boot the criminals and hold employers accountable for not checking for those pesky tamper proof IDs.
Tamper proof IDs – “subject to the availability of appropriations”
boot the criminals – “subject to the availability of appropriations”
hold employers accountable – “subject to the availability of appropriations”
page 131
SEC. 306. INCREASING SECURITY AND INTEGRITY OF IDENTITY
DOCUMENTS
(a) Purpose- The Secretary of Homeland Security, shall establish
the State Records Improvement Grant Program (referred to in this
section as the `Program’), under which the Secretary may award
grants to States for the purpose of advancing the purposes of this Act
and of issuing or implementing plans to issue driver’s license and
identity cards that can be used for purposes of verifying identity under
this Title and that comply with the state license requirements in
section 202 of the REAL ID Act of 2005 (division B of Public Law 109-
13; 49 U.S.C. 30301 note).
(b) States that do not certify their intent to comply with the
REAL ID Act and implementing regulations or that do not submit a
compliance plan acceptable to the Secretary are not eligible for grants
under the Program. Driver’s license or identification cards issued by
States that do not comply with REAL ID may not be used to verify
identity under this Title except under conditions approved by the
Secretary.
(c) Grants and Contracts Authorized—
(1) IN GENERAL- The Secretary is authorized to award
grants, subject to the availability of appropriations, to a
State to provide assistance to such State agency to meet
the deadlines for the issuance of a driver’s license which
meets the requirements of section 202 of the REAL ID Act
of 2005 (division B of Public Law 109-13; 49 U.S.C. 30301
note).
page 207
SEC. 411. COMPLIANCE INVESTIGATORS.
(a) The Secretary of Labor, subject to the availability of appropriations for such
purpose, shall increase, by not less than 200 per year for each of the five fiscal years
after the date of enactment of [name of bill], the number of positions for compliance
investigators and attorneys dedicated to the enforcement of labor standards,
including those contained in sections 218A, 218B, and 218C, the Fair Labor
Standards Act of 1938 (29 U.S.C. 201 et seq.) and the Occupational Safety and
Health Act of 1970 (29 U.S.C. 651 et seq.) in geographic and occupational areas in
which a high percentage of workers are Y nonimmigrants.
Cato, Everyone agrees to securing the borders. Accept it or admit you are simply vying for the status quo. Name one person who says we do not need to secure the borders. You can’t.
Next exaggeration?
boot the criminals – “subject to the availability of appropriationsâ€
page 38
(3) UNITED STATES ATTORNEYS.—In each of the fiscal years 2008
through 2012,
the Attorney General, subject to the availability of appropriations
for such purpose, shall increase the number of attorneys in the
United States Attorneys’ office to litigate immigration cases in
the Federal courts by not less than 50 compared to the number
of such positions for which funds were made available during the
preceding fiscal year.
(4) IMMIGRATION JUDGES.—In each of the fiscal years 2008 through
2012, the
Attorney General, subject to the availability of appropriations for
such purpose,
shall—
(A) increase by not less than 20 the number of full-time
immigration judges compared to the number of such
positions for which funds were made available during the
preceding fiscal year; and
(B) increase by not less than 80 the number of positions
for personnel to
support the immigration judges described in subparagraph
(A) compared to the number of such positions for which
funds were made available during the preceding fiscal
year.
(5) BOARD OF IMMIGRATION APPEALS MEMBERS.—The Attorney General
shall, subject to the availability of appropriations, increase by 10
the number members of the Board of Immigration Appeals over
the number of members serving on the date of enactment of this
Act.
(6) STAFF ATTORNEYS.—In each of the fiscal years 2008 through
2012, the
Attorney General shall, subject to the availability of
appropriations for such
purpose—
(A) increase the number of positions for full-time staff
attorneys in the Board of Immigration Appeals by not less
than 20 compared to the number of such positions for
which funds were made available during the preceding
fiscal year; and
(B) increase the number of positions for personnel to
support the staff
attorneys described in subparagraph (A) by not less than
10 compared to the number of such positions for which
funds were made available during the preceding fiscal
year.
Macker,
Their “math” doesn’t work, but they will not admit it. Somehow more money going into SS is worse in their math. I have thought about fixing all the bogus numbers I have seen, but the blinders are on. Don’t waste your time with the die-hards, reach out to those who want progress instead of fantasy perfection. Perfection means nothing which means status quo. The math is simple. Progress means fixing much of what is wrong. Zero or something, that is all they offer. I take something.
Everyone agrees to securing the borders.
Subject to the availability of appropriations, of course.
page 3
TITLE I—BORDER ENFORCEMENT
Subtitle A—Assets for Controlling United
States Borders.
SEC. 101. ENFORCEMENT PERSONNEL.
(a) Additional Personnel-
(1) U.S. CUSTOMS AND BORDER PROTECTION OFFICERS –
In each of the fiscal years 2008 through 2012, the
Secretary shall, subject to the availability of
appropriations, increase by not less than 500 the number
of positions for full-time active duty CBP officers and
provide appropriate training, equipment, and support to
such additional CBP officers.
(2) INVESTIGATIVE PERSONNEL-
(A) IMMIGRATION AND CUSTOMS ENFORCEMENT
INVESTIGATORS- Section 5203 of the Intelligence
Reform and Terrorism Prevention Act of 2004 (Public
Law 108-458; 118 Stat. 3734) is amended by
striking `800′ and inserting `1000′.
(B) ADDITIONAL PERSONNEL- In addition to the
positions authorized under section 5203 of the
Intelligence Reform and Terrorism Prevention Act of
2004, as amended by subparagraph (A), during each
of the fiscal years 2008 through 2012, the Secretary
shall, subject to the availability of appropriations,
increase by not less than 200 the number of
positions for personnel within the Department
assigned to investigate alien smuggling.
(3) DEPUTY UNITED STATES MARSHALS- In each of the
fiscal years 2008 through 2012, the Attorney General
shall, subject to the availability of appropriations, increase
by not less than 50 the number of positions for full-time
active duty Deputy United States Marshals that assist in
matters related to immigration.
More of the proposed border security.
page 4
`SEC. 5202. INCREASE IN FULL-TIME BORDER PATROL
AGENTS.
`(a) Annual Increases- The Secretary of Homeland Security
shall, subject to the availability of appropriations for such
purpose, increase the number of positions for full-time active-
duty border patrol agents within the Department of Homeland
Security (above the number of such positions for which funds
were appropriated for the preceding fiscal year), by not less
than—
page 5
SEC. 102. TECHNOLOGICAL ASSETS.
(a) Acquisition—Subject to the availability of appropriations for such
purpose, the Secretary shall procure additional unmanned aerial
vehicles, cameras, poles, sensors, and other technologies necessary to
achieve operational control of the borders of the United States.
I can’t help but wonder how available those appropriations will be, after this bill is signed into law. I’m thinking not very available at all.
Name one person who says we do not need to secure the borders. You can’t.
terrye,, on this site, for one. Teddy Kennedy, Linda Chavez,
Saying we need to secure the borders and pretending to want to do something toward actually accomplishing that are two different things.
Look at what was said when the fence bill was passed 6 months ago, look at Chertoff’s intent to secure the border, or build the fence. NO ONE is serious about that.
FE,
I don’t have a quick link, but my understanding is that a substantial amount has been paid into the SS system on behalf of illegals, all unclaimable by them.
“Enforcement” is so much more than fixing the border. Otherwise, we generally agree, except for the rhetoric.