May 30 2007
Poor Judgement Is Not The Same As Patriotism
I watched Special Report with Brit Hume and it was great to see the Immigration Hypochondriacs running amok again. Laura Ingraham was especially sad, and helpful to Bush’s cause. So was Rush (I bet you I lose my top 13 listing over this one). When Bush points out how heated rhetoric (like the word ‘amnesty’ and calling people “RINOs” and “Traitors) would only continue the status quo Ingraham felt her patriotism was being questioned. No dear, it was just your poor judgement. Stiff upper lip time.
The rantings by the far right on Immigration follows a long line of dissention with Bush, and all along the way the dissenters questioned everthing from Bush’s patriotism to his respect of life to his intelligence. It started with Harriet Miers (questioning his respect for life), went onto Dubai Ports (questioning is patriotism and protection of our nation) and now is onto Immigration (all of the above).
The fact is the far right has become intolerable of tolerance. They have been on a tear for purity, sacrificing progress at every turn. The examples they throw out of criminal elements inside the immigrant community are the kinds of concerns this bill will fix, yet the peddlers of those horror stories stand firmly against doing anything about them! Sorry folks, but poor judgement is not the same thing as being patriotic. The Liberals feel it is patriotic to surrender to al Qaeda. The far right is the same way about stopping the documenting of undocumented workers.
The far right has completely split the conservative coalition on many topics – the latest being immigration. The conservative coalition has been torn apart by these obstinate hardliners. Now it is patriotic to leave us with the very dangerous status quo, but unpatriotic to want to fix the problems. That is some crazy pretzel logic. Bush’s Sister Soldjah moment is working quite well, because he has the far right just babbling incoherently, and dangerously.
The schism started by the far right is now for real – and escalating. Rush Limbaugh is saying the far right will not back Bush on Iraq because he called them all their exaggerations. Hopefully for American, and the GOP, Rush is dead wrong. The Far Right staged their big pout in 2006 and left the nation with a Democrat Congress hell bent on giving al Qaeda their first win in the War on Terror. If the far right thinks they can stage another big pout and cement al Qaeda’s win, simply because many of us are tired of the endless excuses to not act on immigration, then they are treading on political extinction. Rush better rethink his comment. Blackmail doesn’t go over well with people. epecially if the blackmail entails letting al Qaeda win in Iraq so they can come after us here. That is as close to a death threat as I ever want hear.
If Laura and Rush want to now say they are withholding support for our efforts in Iraq until they get their silly way on immigration then we WILL call into question their patriotism. Right now it is only their judgement on this ONE issue that is lacking. They can be wrong on one issue and be forgiven. We are all human. However, they cannot hold a nation hostage with the threat of letting al Qaeda win Iraq and ever be forgiven.
The far right does not have the support they think they have. They have their echo chambers, but they do not have the poll numbers. I am one of a few willing to speak out clearly and passionately that the Conservative movement, on this one issue, is being led astray by the vocal talking heads – while the voters head towards another path. Laura and Rush can pout and confuse their judgement with patriotism all day long. But do not threaten us. That is a line that you will never cross back over. America is truly ready to dump the hot heads and support the hot ideas. The DC swamp needs to be drained. We can start with those making not-so-veiled threats against this nation.
excellent post, AJ. Thank God for you and Michael Medved. The only two people I’ve found who are worth reading and listening to.
God bless you!
Sadly, you are right AJ. Listened to many of the big talkshows today and the things that where being said about President Bush where terrible. They are going to step into this big time. I kept hearing “why can’t President Bush embrace the conservative legacy of Ronald Reagan” Funny thing is Reagan loved deal making and compromise. He also a crafted and passed the largest “amnesty” bill for immigrants to that time. Heard the same cries and complaints then as well.
Amen! I’m sick to death of these far right whiners who have completely gutted the Party and brought us to where we are today with Congress and the constant anti-Bush drumbeat. And please add Malkin to this list.
AJ,
After singling out Rush and Laura Ingraham for criticism, I think it’s important to also mention Bill Bennett. Although he’s on the other side of this issue than me, he’s been very respectful and reasoned in his discussion of this issue. He doesn’t scream or threaten or anything, he just lays out his argument, does his best to counter the other side’s arguments, and doesn’t question his opponent’s motives or anything. It’s refreshing.
Purity should have been thought of before 12 million people arrived.
I should have added to my post above, there are some things you have to accept in life, gracefully, would be ideal. The conservatives want to close the boarder, good idea for national security reasons, we need to identify the people who are here. But there is no way the purity guys are going to send 12 million people home. How they stay has to be negotiated. No body is going to be happy at every negotiated step. But we need to identify who is here. How do the purity guys think we can do that?
So, they would join the Democrats in surrendering to AlQaida, but not in supporting an immigration bill? That is just great.
Lately I have been hearing things from the right that are just as loony as anything Rosie O’Donnel ever thought about saying.
So, they will do what? Support Fred Thompson? Back when he was actually a Senator Thompson worked with that conservative icon Diane Feinstein on an amendment to the McCain/Feingold Act which he supported. He also voted to bring in more foreign workers. But that was then. Gotta pander to the right people.
George Bush did not betray these people. He has been consistent in his immigration policy throughout his presidency. He has also put more people and resources into dealing with illegal immigration than any president in history. And these people, the same ones who throw a hissy fit every hour and a half over something refuse to support the War on Terror because Bush will not do their bidding?
Well, who needs them? All they do is blow off anyway.
And btw, I doubt very much if Reagan would build that wall. Reagan did not believe in building walls, he tore them down. And Reagan did believe in compromise as well. I think that these people have reinvented Reagan for their own purposes.
Reagan said that the immigration bill he signed in 86 was the biggest mistake he ever made. Mainly because none of the enforcement ever happened and the illegals did not come out of the shadows and participate in the program. Just like the “Hard Right” told him would happen.
Bikerken:
That was a different bill. Are people unable to understand that? Did Reagan ever even talk about a wall? Did he?
No, he did not.
Now this bill has provisions as part of the bill for enforcement, in fact it has more provisions for enforcement and security than we have ever seen in a bill before. Rather than try to certify those triggers or put the money for the fence into escrow or do anything constructive to make the bill acceptable to them the hardliners have done nothing but try to bully everyone else into falling into line. And I don’t even know what it is they want, they spend all of their time ranting about what they don’t want and attacking everyone else.
They did nothing to avoid coming to this place, they ignored the situation for years and now they are threatening to abandon a war time President for sticking to his principles instead of doing their bidding.
And the rest of us? Well we are just supposed to pay for the wall and shut the hell up.
And when it comes to Malkin it should be remembered that she also thought locking up the Japanese was fine and dandy. Sometimes some of these people are just plain extreme.
That bill back in the 80’s that everyone keeps whining about did not actually have the enforcement provisions in the bill. Now we have a Democrat majority thanks in part to these same people yammering about how we should stay home in 06 and teach the GOP a lesson and that means that if some kind of compromise can not be reached the Democrats will control the process. I would say it is the goal of some of these people to make sure the GOP is sent back into the age of permanent majority where they can just bitch and moan all the time, accuse everyone of trying to screw them and never have to do the difficult work of governing.
Just throw out some platitudes. I believe in enforcing the laws too, but that takes more than just talking. It takes change.
I just love it when we have to fight with liberals for years against doing something really stupid and when they win and it goes bad years later, they say, We did this to ourselves! NO, WE didn’t do it, you did it because you wouldn’t listen to sense, now in order to fix the situation, you only want to do the same thing, only harder! And my position is to not repeat the same mistake again.
Every single provision for border enforcement and triggers are subject to the appropriations of funding down the road, so if they don’t decide to fund them, they don’t happen! Just like the fence they voted in last year. You people are like battered women, you keep saying, this is my fault, I have to fix it when it was never you to begin with! When 20% of a neighboring country decides to walk into yours and disobey laws like they don’t exist, that is not your fault, but it is your problem. Throwing the border open to anyone who can get across with a note from their mommy saying they were here before the deadline is not a solution.
I just love it when we have to fight with liberals for years against doing something really stupid and when they win and it goes bad years later, they say, We did this to ourselves! NO, WE didn’t do it, you did it because you wouldn’t listen to sense, now in order to fix the situation, you only want to do the same thing, only harder! And my position is to not repeat the same mistake again.
Every single provision for border enforcement and triggers are subject to the appropriations of funding down the road, so if they don’t decide to fund them, they don’t happen! Just like the fence they voted in last year. You people are like battered women, you keep saying, this is my fault, I have to fix it when it was never you to begin with! When 20% of a neighboring country decides to walk into yours and disobey laws like they don’t exist, that is not your fault, but it is your problem. Throwing the border open to anyone who can get across with a note from their mommy saying they were here before the deadline is not a solution.
I just love it when we have to fight with liberals for years against doing something really stupid and when they win and it goes bad years later, they say, We did this to ourselves! NO, WE didn’t do it, you did it because you wouldn’t listen to sense, now in order to fix the situation, you only want to do the same thing, only harder! And my position is to not repeat the same mistake again.
Every single provision for border enforcement and triggers are subject to the appropriations of funding down the road, so if they don’t decide to fund them, they don’t happen! Just like the fence they voted in last year. You people are like battered women, you keep saying, this is my fault, I have to fix it when it was never you to begin with! When 20% of a neighboring country decides to walk into yours and disobey laws like they don’t exist, that is not your fault, but it is your problem. Throwing the border open to anyone who can get across with a note from their mommy saying they were here before the deadline is not a solution.
Sorry, AJ, but I think you’re wrong.
I think there are two immigration issues: Sealing the border and dealing with illegals already in the country.
Those of us who oppose the immigration bill are concerned primarily with the former issue. We want that border sealed air-tight. And that sealing must come FIRST. Frankly, we’ve been too badly betrayed in the past.
Dealing with illegals currently in the country? I’m an advocate of strict expulsion…..but I’m not fanatic. Not if the problem won’t get worse.
Which is the whole point of sealing the border.
And one other point….dealing with illegal immigration is an issue that cuts across conventional party lines. It is basically an issue pitting the very wealthy and the illegal-advocacy groups against the middle class. And whichever party pledges to put an end to illegal immigration and MEANS it will obliterate the other.
well, the local apologists here have now sunk to 16%. that’s right folks, only 16% of americans think this bill will reduce illegal immigration.
41% of americans thinks that the rate of illegal immigration will actually go up—but of course we are the far right (code for nativist, bigot, rascist etc) i just had no idea that the far right was getting so large.
http://tinyurl.com/2owbef
Do you favor or oppose the immigration reform proposal agreed to last week?
Favor
26%
Oppose
48%
Not sure
26%
If the Senate bill became law, would the number of illegal immigrants entering the U.S. each year increase or decrease?
Increase
41%
Decrease
16%
Stay the same
33%
Not sure
11%
AJ: your wrong on this, because you’ve fallen in love with your own analysis (I keep warning you about that!); and, your only rational, as far as I can determine, for supporting this type of rampant illegal immigration to begin with is, to win the “Hispanic” vote over to the Republican/Conservative party!
At least, that’s the only rational I’ve been able to detect so far.
As a registered Independent, screw the Republicans, as far as I’m concerned, we gave them 12 years to clean things up, and straighten up, and all they did was become more corrupt than the Democrats.
The Democrats, will never be able to escape their radical McGovern peacenik Anti-American Socialist totalitarian roots, and they’ve proven that in past six months, since they took over; on top of that, they’re just AS corrupt, or more so, than the Republicans, and Americans can already sense that!
So, screw them too!
So, the only thing these ass clowns have to do, is Secure the damn border, to protect us!
They can’t do it; one side is so fixated on importing as many guaranteed Democratic voters as they can, to replace all the babies they are proud are aborted, the other side is so enamored from all the ca$h they get from big business to keep a steady supply of cheap, unskilled labor for the agriculture, construction, and home nanny industries, that they can’t do squat either!
In the meantime AJ, you’re ignoring the $2.5 TRILLION dollar Social Services bill that will come due, when you suddenly pump 12million “illegals” into the system, as this bill will do!
You’ve still not answered the facts on that AJ, and you cannot! There is only one asnwer; DON’T DO IT!
The ONLY compromise I’m willing to make on this issue is the following:
IF you came into the country, ILLEGALLY, to work Legally, you HAVE to go home first, and come legally!
Additionally; because you came here ILLEGALLY first, even IF you go home, and come back Legally, you have to wait 10 years, pay a $5000 dollar find, pay ALL your back taxes, and you are INELIGIBLE for Citizenship, or SS benefits, for a period of 10 years, as punishment for coming here ILLEGALLY!
That is the ONLY compromise I’m willing to make, and otherwise, I want them all out!
My wife came here LEGALLY, my step-daughter came here LEGALLY; my cousin married a man from Peru, and he came here LEGALLY; if they can do, and we had to pay all the fees associated, and endure all the seperations, then they can too!
End of Discussion!
AJ, why is it that when posed with questions that are rational, you call them “strawman” agruments and won’t deal with them. You tell me when I want to deal with reality, let you know.
Well, here is some reality for you, buddy boy. I had my identity stolen by an illegal from Mexico. He has been working under my Social Security number and so my SS is so friggin messed up it isn’t even funny. Where did he get it? He bought it at Trader’s Village in Houston along with someone else’s Texas driver’s licence number.
Ever try to straighten out you SS account? First YOU have to prove who YOU are. Then YOU have to prove that you did not work at the jobs listed for you. YOU have to prove that you live where you do for the time you say you have. The burden of proof is on you, all the while this damned illegal is still using my SS number to work. NO, THEY DID NOT ARREST HIM. NO, THEY DID NOT FIRE HIM. NO, HE IS NOT BEING DEPORTED. And Social Security will not assign me a new number or remove the money he has paid into my account because their claim is “we don’t have a place to put it”.
I hope the same happens to you, buddy. Then you can cry about how the illegal is still in this nation and you are up to your neck in paper work, lawyers and trying to get your identity back. Never mind that you have to pull three different credit reports. Never mind that the one thing that is legally only yours has been stolen and never mind that this illegal clown, if this bill goes through, will be given credit for what he paid into your account (for 14 months so he will be fully vested) and the screw up of your account will be astronomical. Never mind that this clown is 61 years old, has been working for a construction crew in Dallas (I live near Austin and the SS moron I talked to didn’t seem to understand that is 300 miles from Dallas) and never mind that this illegal slug will be able to draw social security with only one year’s contribution. Perhaps you should read a little thing called the Mexico-U.S. Social Security Totalization Agreement. I hope you aren’t too young. Your SS is going down the tubes when millions of Mexican nationals are drawing SS and have never lived here or paid into the system. Remember, spouses get benefits as well. Doesn’t matter where they live.
So don’t tell me that I am making a strawman argument and I think that having your Social Security number stolen is just a little more important than having the damn housings standards violated in your town.
PS: another thing you’re wrong on AJ, the lastest polls show that an OVERWHELMING Major of Republicans, Democrats, and Independents favore BORDER ENFORCEMENT FIRST, then the Illegals dealt with!
Sorry AJ, you’re just wrong that issue!
Mike,
The far right is not promising to end anything but the only chance to fix the problem and to deport the criminal element. That truth is out there.
Patrick, the question needs to be (a) this bill or (b) nothing? Only the immigrant hypochondriacs will support nothing and claim it as victory.