May 31 2007

WSJ On Immigration

Published by at 12:53 pm under All General Discussions,Illegal Immigration

Watch this from WSJ and see how much damage the far right has done in Immigration. I agree with the WSJ, the Reps are screwed now by losing on the issue and losing the Latino vote. Purity will be achieved and the end of conservative governing majority will the result.

100 responses so far

100 Responses to “WSJ On Immigration”

  1. wiley says:

    Yeah, it’s Orwellian … where the elite politcos redefine words and the lazy and agenda-driven MSM never confront them on the hypocricy since they wade in the same liberal pool.

    And I think us “naysayers” of this bill have noticed that most of the name-calling and smearing is coming from the other side.

  2. Bikerken says:

    You know Apache, I was just thinking a little while ago about the visas for gang bangers portion of this bill and I couldn’t stop mulling over in my head this question, “Who on earth would possibly have come up with a way to let gangbangers like MS13 off the hook and actually get legal paperwork to stay in this country?” Why would ANYBODY want that? The democrats don’t have any reason to be for that, who in hell???? Then it hit me, LA RAZA and MECHA, they have a vested interest in having these gangs here for pure muscle and intimidation! It has got to be that’s where this provision came from. La Raza has constantly covered for these gang members as misunderstood victims of society. And MeChA is nothing but a bunch of gringo hating bigots. It’s gotta be what happened! And our politicians went along with that provision for what? Read Peggys article.

  3. apache_ip says:

    Wiley,

    You’re right on about Ted Kennedy (cape cod orca) — his fingerprints are all over this bill and you can bet they have a follow-on bill ready to exapnds voting “rights”.

    You know Kennedy has another bill waiting in the wings. It’s a given. As much as I disagree with everything he stands for and epitomizes, you do have to admire his political prowess. Politically speaking, he is a force to be reckoned with. He duped McCain and many other into buying into Campaign Finance Reform. And now, these same dummies are lining up for more of Kennedy’s goodness. You really have to wonder about the quality of Republican representatives that we are electing. We need a smarter bunch to represent us.

    And it’s telling how none of the proponents have rebutted any of the facts and issues that you & some others have laid out.

    It is very telling, isn’t it. In the last 24 hours, I have had zero takers on either of my offers. I offered to compromise – no takers. And I offered to debate the bill with anyone who has read it – again, no takers.

    They don’t want to compromise, and they don’t want to debate. And yet, they call us the uninformed, unwashed “hardliners”.

    It is upside down world.

    But I knew that none of them would compromise or debate. Do you know how I knew? Because they resorted to name calling. Anytime that one side resorts to name calling, it means one of two things –
    1. they are ill informed and wish to avoid debate
    2. they are well informed, and know they can’t possibly win the debate.

    So, I wasn’t surprised when no one wanted to debate. I was a little surprised to discover that no one wanted to compromise. That was odd. I attribute that to their not knowing what is in the bill, therefore they don’t know what to say or what to compromise on. After all, if you don’t know what is in the bill, what can you offer to compromise on?

    It’s mind-boggling how they can dismiss or ignore the result of the ‘86 bill … and yet expect that our ill-equipped and incompetent agencies will suddenly be able to execute a maize of prodedures and enforce laws that now involve 12-20 million illegals.

    Those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it.

  4. wiley says:

    Obviously, we like checking AJ’s blog, and personally, I usually agree with his positions. But it seems to me that AJ has another form of BDS — any and everything Bush does is pure brilliance!!! I can’t think of any major issues where AJ has voiced disapproval or criticism. I like Bush and think his heart is in right place and he’s a decent man, but he has shown himself not to be a true conservative, or lately, even a moderate one.

    And yes, Ted K is a persistent and veritable political force for the left, which means usually advocating socialist policy not in the best interest of our country (as you’re well aware!)

  5. apache_ip says:

    If you want to know which side of a debate has the weaker argument, simply watch to see which side resorts to name calling or attempts at “labeling” their opponents first. When you see that, you have found the weaker argument.

    But that is just one “hardliners” opinion. What do I know?

  6. apache_ip says:

    I’ve read Peggy Noonan’s article. It is spot on, as usual. The girl has a gift for the written word.

  7. apache_ip says:

    And MeChA is nothing but a bunch of gringo hating bigots.

    Now I am confused. According to Lindsey Graham, we are the bigots. ;)

    Can you imagine if a sitting United States Senator spoke to the KKK and referred to the KKK opponents as “bigots”?

    Am I stuck in a time warp? Are we back in the 60s but with different players?

    It is truly upside down world.

  8. apache_ip says:

    This is just great –

    –begin quote–
    Rick Gordon, a homeland security consultant, told The Washington Post that “Enough is enough. These frauds need to go!”

    Gordon emphasized that his was no “right-wing Nazi community. … Everybody is a liberal Democrat.”
    –end quote–

    source for the above –
    http://tinyurl.com/2vodaz

    This guy, Rick Gordon, is a homeland security consultant, and he sees two sides –
    1. liberal Democrats
    2. right-wing Nazi’s

    Hmmmm….. I wonder which party he sees as the “right-wing Nazi’s”?

  9. wiley says:

    Peggy Noonan is always a good read and very insightful.
    The nonsense spouted here about “purity” & how the hard-right/hardliners are splintering themselves into irrelevance is plain wrong. AJ & likeminded proponents do not understand what happened in Nov-06 and posit that conservatives can help themselves more by supporting a bad bill (that’s bad for the country) than by standing firm on core conservative principles. It is Bush & wobbly repubs who are breaking with conservatism.
    A defeat of this bill will not necessarily be harmful for repubs, but it will be bad for Bush. If Thompson or Romney come to the front of the pack and maintain tough stance on illegal immigration (or Rudy if he stresses real border security, first), then repubs will be in good shape for a winning hand because most voters favor this approach. Polls that supposedly show voters support comprehensive reform is practically meaningless because the respondensts don’t have details or know what is meant by “comprehensive” — it sounds impressive!! — or what is actually called for in the bill. What is clear, however, is that voters strongly favor shoring up border security, promptly (with or without addressing the illegals already here), to get control over who enters our country in a 9-11 world.

  10. For Enforcement says:

    Hey Guys, I’ve finally figured it out. I’ve been wondering for days what the hell is going on with this illegal alien thing. Now I know (or at least think I do) what is driving it. When Pres Bush’s approval got down to historical lows, he decided he was never going to be the most popular president in history, with historical high rating numbers. But with an absolute stroke of genius, he decided he could reach historical popularity numbers. Admittedly they would have to be on the low end instead of the preferred high end of the scale, but what the hell, historical numbers are just that; historical. Now he is in striking distance of the Historical lowest ever numbers. Now all he had to do was figure out how to bust the group that most approves of him. The Conservatives….. What issue would really turn them against him. Ah ha, give all illegals immediate amnesty, make them legal, call them names if they didn’t get on board. Get other conservatives to call them names. Suggest to Sen Graham that they were bigots, the whole route. But to his chagrin, he found that some, that claim to be supporters of his, actually approve of his position. That’s a loser, if they don’t turn against him also, he may not get the truly low approval rating he’s shooting for. Other issues…. what other issues could alienate even them? Ah…..Global warming, reverse his historical stand on global warming…. announce that he wants to get America at the head of the pack to control global warming.. WTF? that’ll work. A good solid 17-18 approval rating is just around the corner. That’ll make people remember him.
    So Guys, now that I’ve laid out the Presidents ambition and his method to achieve it, doesn’t it all make sense.

    This is a weak attempt to offer some reasonable explanation for why Pres Bush has totally abandoned his conservative base. I kinda got the idea for it after reading Peggy Noonan’s column. I know it’s not true (my scenario) and not really funny, but believe me, as much as I’ve struggled with it. There just is no logical explanation.

    I like the statement above that the side with the weakest argument is the side that starts name calling. Note: this is the opinion of a “hardliner” (another name for those that want the laws enforced)

  11. For Enforcement says:

    See?

    Washington — Seeking to end America’s isolation on the issue of global climate change, President Bush called Thursday for the 15 countries that are major producers of greenhouse gases to confer this fall and adopt a common goal on curbing emissions.

    http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/news/1180695348301930.xml&coll=2

  12. DaleinAtlanta says:

    Bikerken: I like your theory on LaRaza & MS13 etc.

    Wiley: I’ve been trying to get AJ to spell out his EXACT reasoning on his support for this bill, and I do not think it is pure support for Bush driving, I think AJ is driven by the fact that IF the bill is past, the Republicans get enough Hispanic support in future elections, to win back the House, Senate and WH! I THINK that is his calculation; I also think it’s wrong, but that’s just me!

    Additionally your comments on Karl Rove are dead on; he was always WAY overhyped anyhow, by the Media, by the nutbags on the Left; it was always their hysteria, just because Bush got elected, that drove all that crap.

    But, if you look back at the Harriet Myers fiasco, Dubai Ports fiasco, etc., etc., etc., he’s not that freaking smart anyhow, I suspect he’s really a moron!

    LE: nice theory, but Bush has been all out weak immigration reform, and Amnesty, since he took office, he made his first speech on this back in 2002 or 2003, and I was stunned back then; no, I know you’re being a bit flippant, but he’s like John McCain on this, he’s absolutely lost his mind! I agree with Hugh Hewitt, his speech the other day, an unmitigated disaster, he pissed off what few Republican supporters he has left; I fear everyone will turn on him now, and sadly, he’s worked hard to earn that!

    Apache: re: Lindsey Graham (RINO!); upside down world, etc.; SPOT ON!

  13. For Enforcement says:

    I find it interesting that the Border Agent that let the TB guy back into the country has been suspended. That’ll help get the total number of border agents up. (Actually, he probably deserved the suspension for letting an undesirable into the country) But wait……. don’t the agents on the southern border let thousands of undesirables a day enter?
    But…….that’s another subject.

    While I brought up that TB guy thing. Isn’t it strange that his father-in-law works in the CDC and in the very section that deals with this form of TB and this is the first guy to get this TB since in the ’60s?
    Makes me wonder if the father-in-law likes his son-in-law… just wondering……

  14. For Enforcement says:

    Yes, Dale, I know Bush has always been for the immigration reform, I just don’t remember him calling for instantly making 100% of the illegals all legal with the stroke of a pen before.

    What’s his dog in the hunt? I don’t know. I do know Jeb’s wife is Hispanic, but I don’t believe having one Hispanic in the family is enough incentive to make all Hispanic’s legal without due process.
    It must be personal for him in some way, I just don’t know what it is. It defies logic that anyone that has read the bill could support it(except dimmicrats, of course)

  15. stevevvs says:

    I guess AJ is a Opinion Journal Lover, and a National Review Ignorer. So I thought I’d bring Peggy Noonans piece in Opinion Journal today to your attention:
    http://www.opinionjournal.com/columnists/pnoonan/?id=110010148

    You do know the RNC is facing a sharp DECLINE in Donations, right?
    I can’t understand why, as I’ve been told HERE, that it’s a tiny group of Exstreme Right Wingers causing this little problem.

    a snipet from Peggy:

    What political conservatives and on-the-ground Republicans must understand at this point is that they are not breaking with the White House on immigration. They are not resisting, fighting and thereby setting down a historical marker–“At this point the break became final.” That’s not what’s happening. What conservatives and Republicans must recognize is that the White House has broken with them. What President Bush is doing, and has been doing for some time, is sundering a great political coalition. This is sad, and it holds implications not only for one political party but for the American future.

    The White House doesn’t need its traditional supporters anymore, because its problems are way beyond being solved by the base. And the people in the administration don’t even much like the base. Desperate straits have left them liberated, and they are acting out their disdain. Leading Democrats often think their base is slightly mad but at least their heart is in the right place. This White House thinks its base is stupid and that its heart is in the wrong place.

  16. For Enforcement says:

    Yes, Peggy said;

    What conservatives and Republicans must recognize is that the White House has broken with them. What President Bush is doing, and has been doing for some time, is sundering a great political coalition. This is sad, and it holds implications not only for one political party but for the American future.

    Clearly Peggy must not read this blog or she would recognize immediately that the ‘real’ problem is the ‘hardliners’ and ‘far right’
    uh…….that’s name calling… isn’t it? Sorry.

  17. AJStrata says:

    FE,

    My asnwer to Peggy is up. We part ways – all of us. No more conservative coaltion until the far right starts respecting others.

  18. CatoRenasci says:

    Victor Davis Hanson has an excellent article in the Jewish World Review:

    http://jewishworldreview.com/0507/hanson053107.php3

    He makes far more strongly the point I hinted at in earlier posts: the solution to illegal immigration in the US ultimately lies not at our borders, but in the countries where the people are so desparate to leave.

    Enforcing our existing laws and better border control helps, and may even help a good deal, but slowing the flow to a manageable level may ultimately require changes in the source countries. In the meantime, we — and that means all of us individually as well as the government — must be aware that the costs of illegal workers are not fully reflected in their wages and tax payments (to the extent they pay them), but in the vast costs for crime, health care and poverty, and the destruction of our values.

    The next time you hire someone to cut your lawn, or do some painting or carpentry, make sure it’s a citizen or legal immigrant (boy did I have a row with my wife about that one – she’s the thrifty one!).

    We don’t need mass deportations, what we need is situational enforcement: if an illegal comes to the attention of authorities at any level – from a hospital to a school or a traffic stop – they’re reported and deported. As soon as it’s determined they’re not legal, out they go on the next available flight. Solve the problem one illegal at a time, just as Rudy went after graffitti and street crime in New York.

  19. For Enforcement says:

    Cato

    We don’t need mass deportations, what we need is situational enforcement: if an illegal comes to the attention of authorities at any level – from a hospital to a school or a traffic stop – they’re reported and deported. As soon as it’s determined they’re not legal, out they go on the next available flight.

    what? you’re for enforcing the laws? you must be a ‘hardliner’ or ‘far right’?

    I agree with what you said. I dont’ think the proper way to eliminate the illegals is to just make them legal. But some do.

  20. thecentercannothold says:

    What’s up with Bush? He’s “Economic Man” i.e. country club Republican? Cheap labor and soft on ethnic issues. How many
    GOPers believe “free market” forces can moderate the likes
    of the “La Raza” ethnic revanchists? Probably enough to help
    Democrats perform the trick of driving down wages and Balkanizing America in one fell swoop. And only a “Hard Right” third party
    can halt the process of national de-evolution.

    Maybe we can convince Ron Paul and Chuck Hagel to organize
    one.