May 31 2007
WSJ On Immigration
Watch this from WSJ and see how much damage the far right has done in Immigration. I agree with the WSJ, the Reps are screwed now by losing on the issue and losing the Latino vote. Purity will be achieved and the end of conservative governing majority will the result.
Cato:
want to be very clear that I am not suggesting all Mexicans harbor the same serious anti-American purposes as the LaRaza and MeChA activists.
You are correct, but Bikerken and I live in communities, where we have definitely seen the same type of behaviour towards America, in are much Larger percentage of the Mexican communties here.
In Atlanta, even if you are not LaRaza and MeChA, the vehemence and hate towards America, is palpable in in almost ever interaction I have with Mexicans here; it is truly quite astounding, and after awhile, you frankly get very damn sick of it; they’re here ILLEGALLY, getting Welfare, and Foodstamps, and free medical care, stuff they cannot get in their own country, and to your face they tell you they hate America, and hope to destroy it!
Get’s old after awhile, frankly!
But your comments are very insightful, and cogent!
I live in a vote by mail state, and EVERYONE here votes. And to the best of my knowledge, they vote in every single election. Our Governor has made sure of that.
Since I don’t have any first hand experience with this, can someone help me out?
If you scroll up and read my quote from Title 18 USC Section 611, can you tell me if you have witnessed the enforcement of this law? I am curious how such a law would be practically enforced. My guess is that they can’t enforce it and they don’t even try. The only way it could be reasonably enforced would be to hold the Federal election completely separate for the State elections. Is that how this is enforced?
I’m just curious.
Thanks in advance.
I know that the Republicans in the House helped pass the Civil Rights Act, but Goldwater made a point of finding fault with it and in so doing lost any benefit for the GOP that they may have gained. Once Martin Luther King came out against Goldwater, it was over. And he came out against the GOP because Goldwater criticized the bill and said it would create a special class of person.The problem with Republicans is that they want it both ways. You can think blacks just vote for Democrats to get more free stuff, but it is not that simple. A lot of them felt betrayed by Goldwater. Why do you think the Dixiecrats went Republican after Johnson supported the bill?
And yes, Latinos have voted for Democrats more than Republicans. Bush made real inroads into that demographic but that is over, and making cracks about how they vote for Democrats to get more free stuff is an insult in and of itself. There are plenty of white people getting free stuff in this country and the treatment I have seen on certain blogs by hardliners that most hispanics are just plain insulting. Deliberately so. There are Latinos serving in the military in Iraq, did they join up for free stuff?
Will this bill deal with all the backlog? No, but it will deal with some of it and it help put more resources in place so that we can deport more people quicker and can hold people longer. I know people think the government can just haul these people off, but Bush can not hold 700 terrorists in Gitmo without it turning into an international incident. There is no way we can just load em up and ship em out.
I remember when the Democrats said that any attempt to create Social Security private accounts was an attack on the system which would lead to its utter destruction and of course the starvation deaths of millions of helpless old people. What was their alternative? Ignore the problem. If that system collapses I know who I will blame and it won’t be George Bush.
So far the hardliners have had a high old time flapping their jaws and taking any bill that the Senate comes up with apart. Anything they do not like is of course seen as evidence of high treason. Fixing it or improving it take a slow second to destroying it. And of course the rest of us are just dummies who do not have the facts whereas the hardliners know everything about everything and have an insight that we mere mortals are not capable of.
Well, if in five years this problem is not better, if the hardliners have not found a way to magically enforce all the laws and close all the borders, I know who I will blame. It is easy to just criticize other people, but it is difficult to do a better job yourself. And so far all these guys do is bitch and blame the government, they are not responsible for anything. They want to control the entire process? They want to be the ones who decide what should and should not be done and what is right and what is wrong and what will work and what will not?
Then fine, from this day forward I hold them responsible for something other than bitching at the rest of us poor fact free dummies who do not know that the government is part of an international conspiracy to destroy us all. From this day forward, it is all theirs. They have made it impossible for anyone else to do anything, so they can just jump right in there.
And if in the next election they find that they have cost the GOP enough votes in the hispanic community that Republicans are not competetitive in national elections, then I know who I will blame. And if the problems in this system have not been fixed, I know who I will blame. I don’t want any excuses about conspiracies and meat packing plants and all that stuff.
And something else, I am not hard left. I voted for John Hostettler in the last election here in the 8th in Indiana and he is to the right of Tancredo, he is also gone. I also voted a straight Republican ticket in the two elections before that.
Now it seems that the hardliners do not just want to get rid of the latinos, they want to get rid of people like me too. Last I saw the number of people identifying with Republicans was down and the number identifying with Democrats was up, it seems the whole country is turning into “hard core leftists”.
Make a list of the things we are allowed to do and think and say, so that I too can join that special little club of pure thinkers.
Anyway, I think it is plainly obvious that once everyone is declared “legal”, they will be eligible to vote in all State and local elections, where it is permitted by State law.
Is there anyone who would disagree with that statement?????
You can go ahead and secure the border first, in fact I think that is a good idea except that people will argue endlessly over what is and is not “secured”. Maybe a force field would work. But the fact is that half these people did not get here that way, that is what you keep ignoring.
When the government tried to pass Prohibition they really thought they could control the flow of booze into the United States, but it came pouring in from places like Jamaica and the only people who benefited from the whole thing in the end were the criminals. There will be all kinds of people making money finding ways to get around that wall. And the people who get here some other way, will probably increase in numbers. And as long as we have all these undocumented people running around with no way of tracking them there will be a place for illegals to hide.
But what the hell, I am just an idiot leftist, so I give this to the experts on the hardliner side. They have made it impossible for anyone else to do anything, so it is only fair that from now on…this is their baby. I give up. So shut up and fix it fellas.
Agreed Dale. I loved you’re I’m a racist post! I don’t understand how anyone can say they love their country but they don’t mind people coming here who absolutely despise it and wish us harm. Not only that, they should have legal papers and voting rights too! Of course you will never get those people to understand that until they see it with their own eyes.
Cultures are different, people are different. We are all a product of our upbringing and background. I think the one thing Americans do that I didn’t really see much of anywhere else in the world,(I’ve spent 12 years out of this country), is to think they the rest of the world is the same as us. This is where the whole “multi-culturalism” fallacy is born. I can accept much of other cultures, I love the food, dance etc, but I’ll be damned if I’m going to sit by while things like honor killings and female mutilation start to become allowed here by those bleeding hearts who will say, “Weeellll, that’s just part of their culture.” The British are already fighting the establishment of Sharia law in London. I know many of them are shaking their heads and are asking themselves how they got to this point. I know how they got there, LIBERAL IMMIGRATION POLICY! How anyone can be so obtuse as to think that you can bring in MILLIONS of poor people from another culture that is nothing like yours, into your home land and it will not have an extreme negative impact. Especially a home land that has many programs that give many benefits to the poor without asking about citizenship.
I’m also very familiar with La Raza and MeChA. Our leiutenant governor, Cruz Bustamante, is a member of MeChA. He says that is in the past but recent recorded statements of his show that to be a sham.
In America, our success is also part of our weakness. We have a better standard of living for the average worker here than just about anywhere in the world. We have freedom to speak our mind and have the spirit to fight for what we believe in. We are also just about the least traveled people in the world. Since we don’t expose ourselves to other countries near as much as most other nations, we don’t really get a good understanding of the world at large. I have sat in the lobby of a hotel and talked politics for hours in Kenya, Bahrain, UAE, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Oman, Austrailia, Pakistan, Japan, etc, etc. This is how you learn about how the rest of the world views us and other world issues. It ain’t pretty. Phillipinos, Koreans, Thais, Aussies, Africans, even most Iranian citizens, and many others tend to love Americans, but there are those that don’t like anybody, especially us, like Mexico,. That is a country with a Machismo Small Man complex. They generally don’t have any respect for anything, but that’s how they grow up. Some places are havens for criminals, like Yemen, Afghanistan, Pakistan and Nigeria. I think you have to think twice before accepting large numbers of individuals from these places. It is very dangerous not to. I don’t think that makes me a racist, I think that makes me a realist.
Apache:
Can you actually name a state that allows someone who is not a citizen to vote? I mean seriously? I am not disagreeing with statement…I am just asking. Do people with tourist visas get to vote? After all, they are legal. I mean really, isn’t there a certain standard? Maybe we should make it a law that unless both of your parents were born in America you can not vote in any election. Do you think that is fair?
DaleinAtlanta, if you think it is rough in Atlanta, move to San Antonio or any city in Texas, Arizona, New Mexico or California.
Another thing no one on the pro-illegal side wants to discuss is Mexico’s own attitude toward illegal immigration. So while Mexico screams that the problem we have with it’s nationals who sneak into our nation is our own fault, Mexico puts it’s troops on it’s own southern border to keep South Americans out. Research how Mexico treats illegals. It ain’t purdy.
What Mexico does do is export humans. Why? Because the migrants from South America, they do allow in to replace their own workers, will work for less than Mexican citizens.
When we sought independence from England, we did not go to England and march in the streets demanding that the British change their laws to suit us. We took care of ourselves, and our new nation. I cannot seem to get across to some that the people we are going to grant amnesty to do not have the same political mindset we do. Mexico, and most South American nations are socialist by nature. And that is the mindset that we will be allowing to remain. The Aztlan crowd is greater than you think.
Hillary realizes what is at stake here. VOTES. That is why she has hired a top gun from LaRaza. She is pandering to the millions of voters that the Dhimmicrats intend to sign up when they are legal. Hillary Clinton may be a slug in my book, but stupid, she is not.
Do we really want millions of people who are not willing to work for change in their own country? Do we really want millions of people who have no loyalty to their own nation and expect them to have loyalty to ours.
Bikerken:
I don’t want people coming here who want to do us harm. But believe it or not the man who mowed my Grandmother’s lawn was not a monster. He was just a nice man who came here to give his family a better life, he was respectful. This insistence that everyone who comes in here from someplace south of the border is part of the Reconquista is just bizarre. I have heard white men like Tim McVeigh who are part of militias say terrible things about this country. It was not the Reconquista that brought down the Federal Building in Oklahoma City.
It is ridiculous to complain that people have no right to call you racist when you disparage an entire race of people because of the behavior of a select and nasty group.
If I remember correctly, the highest percentage of the Hispanic vote garnered in a Federal election was 44%, and that was by President Bush. And he ran on “comprehensive immigration reform”! And the best he could pull was 44% of the Hispanic vote???????
And now, he wants to invite anywhere from12 million to 100 million (after they bring their parents, spouse, and children) to vote in elections?????
Just how is that supposed to be good for the Republican party?????
We are starting from a losing position and hoping that we can convince them to vote Republican. That doesn’t seem like a very good plan. I would be a lot less uneasy if we were in the position of the Democrats. They are starting from a winning position (percentage of Hispanic that vote Democrat vs percentage that vote Republican). All the Democrats have to do is not lose those votes. Republicans, on the other hand, have to figure out how to get those votes. The Democrats definitely have the upper hand on this one.
I’ve posted my list of things to look forward to once Democrats are firmly in power. Hillary has already made public her big socialist dream for America. Has everyone seen that. Drudge had a link. I hope those of you in favor of this bill have given that some serious thought.
And AJ, the Democrats will surrender to the terrorists faster than you can say “hardliner”.
Terrye, I know it is part of your personality to try to inject racism into the argument, but where did I say that only Latinos voted for those who promised them free stuff? I said “people” as in inclusive. All people. Not just Latinos. Just can’t seem to let go of your leftist roots can you?
OK, so Bush got 44% of the Latino vote. Big deal when 49% vote Democrat. That was not an inroad. And don’t use the “military” canard. Those Latinos in the military are LEGAL.
Terrye,
Can you actually name a state that allows someone who is not a citizen to vote?
Yes, I can. I live in it. It is Oregon. I believe Washington State is the same, but I can’t swear by that.
Google it if you doubt me.
And aren’t you reading the Federal Law that I am posting????
Legal aliens are permitted to vote in State and local elections in States where that is permitted by either State law or the State’s constitution. Dang. Scroll up. I even posted a link.
Once this bill is signed into law, they will ALL be legal aliens.
Terrye, if you are old enough to remember the days of the Civil Rights movement in the southwest (remember you said that people talked about it) that would mean that you are at least 50 years old. How the hell old is your grandmother who has a Hispanic mowing her lawn?
And why the need to throw Tim McVeigh into the mix? Are you now grabbing at anything to promote your agenda?
I fear Terrye is starting to fabricate facts to push the agenda of the Shamnesty Bill proponents.
Terrye: Yes, I can, without even Googling; Maryland Leftists forced a bill thru their State Legislature some years ago allowing basically anyone living there, to vote in Local and State elections!
They did it to ensure a Democratic majority, and it works!
They can’t pass a measure like that, affecting Federal Elections, but it doesn’t matter.
Back in the mid 90’s, my office in downtown DC, was right beside the office of a Hispanic American, who worked in the Regean Administration “INS”.
He was a really nice guy, to tell the truth, and we were just into the Clinton era.
He flat out told me, of the “orders” coming down, from the Clinton White House, to register over 6 million Illegal Aliens to vote in the Federal Elections!
He was appalled, and didn’t agree with the policy; but it was done, and those are facts!
I bet most of them were bought off with Welfare and Food stamps etc.
If you do some research on the Internet, you can actually find it referenced in different places; I was there, when this guy saw it happen!
My point here is, despite the fact that states can’t “give” non-US Citizens the right to vote in Federal elections; the fact is that in Democratic strongholds such as NJ, or MD, or in the Democratic counties of Florida, Democratic operatives go out of their way to make sure that ILLEGALS, and Felons, etc., get to vote!
It’s a damn crime!
Bikerken; you are so RIGHT man, it makes me want to cry; great post; I didn’t think that anyone read my LONG post from last night.
I know people are going to call me a “racist” already, so I’d just decided to pre-empt them, and admit it!
You know the worst part, my wife is from the Philippines.
Here in Atlanta, and we’ve lived here for 7 years, and we lived prior to that, in the DC area for 6 years; here in Atlanta, as well as in Alexandria VA, she gets/got Harrassed CONSTANTLY by the Mexican’s; it’s crazy.
They get on look at her, and decide she’s Mexican, and start talking Spanish to her, when she tells them “I don’t know Spanish, I’m sorry”, they start calling her “Puta”, and following her, threatening her, telling her in english why she’s gone “white” and ignore her language, call her stuckup, threaten her, and if my daughters are with her, they get the same treatment.
This is a “cultural” thing, because it’s happened here in Atlanta, and also up in DC.
I’ve almost been involved in serious, bodily harmful confrontations, because of when it happens when I’m with it; she just walks away; I WON’T freaking tolerate it, PEROID!
When they see us together, she gets “glares” and “stares”, and I give it right back, because she’s with a “white” guy!
Tell me WHO the “racist” is?
Bikerken, it’s sad, but aside from you and me and Cato on this board, no one else has had these types of experiences, and knows what these people are really like!
America is living in ignorance to the threat within, and our idiot Politicians like John McCain, are helping us to commit Societal Suicide!
And green card holders, which are obviously not citizens, can also vote in State and local elections. I posted a link for that as well.
Why do you think they wrote assist “prospective citizens” in “voting in public elections” in Section 706 of the proposed immigration draft????
I posted direct quotes from the draft. All you have to do is read it.
Terrye, this bill will have the biggest impact on this country over the next few years since the New Deal. I think it’s a good idea we know what is in it before we go rushing off to approve it before someone finds out the truth of it. What you will not acknowledge is that this bill isn’t just a little flawed, it is a complete and utter sham. And it’s impact is going to be to immediately legalize millions of people here now and the millions more who will rush across the border if it passes. Those people will have the right to work, probably vote, and go in and out of the country. What the hell do they need citizenship for? The rest of the bill is worthless. It simply undoes every single trigger or security measure very deceptively. I see Apache posting parts of the bill here, I haven’t heard any of you actually debate the features of the bill. All you do is hyperventilate about what evil sob’s we are.
Lets try to have an intelligent discussion about this. Terrye, do you believe that this bill will instantly legalize all illegal immigrants in the US and are you ok with that?
Are you ok with ICE having to empty out it’s detention facilities and not being able to deport anyone anymore or do you believe that this is not what is going to happen?
Do you belive that these Z-visa people will have the right to work, travel in and out of the country and vote and are you ok with that.
How many people do you think will actually pay $5000 to apply for citizenship in the future?
Do you believe we should have a limit on the number of people that immigrate to this country, if so, how many over how long?
If we have a ten million people border surge over the next few years, what should we do about that?
As many as 20% of the illegals will never qualify for citizenship because of their criminal records. Should they be allowed to stay in permanent Z-Visa status, if not, what do you do with them.
Do you believe the government can do a real background check in less that 24 hrs?
I know darn well that all of the anti-bill people can answer every one of these question and these are the questions that are important. It doesn’t matter what your political affiliation is or what your position on this bill is, these are just some of the questions that have to be answered. The big mistake is trying to ram this thing through without open debate, and that is exactly what they tried to do. You heard John Fund say that in the video, “They tried to jam this through in a week.” Why do you think they did that Terrye. My guess is they didn’t want anybody to see what was in it let alone debate the merits. Obviously they are real proud of their work.
He flat out told me, of the “orders†coming down, from the Clinton White House, to register over 6 million Illegal Aliens to vote in the Federal Elections!
I had completely forgotten about that. I remember that!! Whatever happened to that? Was there an investigation?
Yes, I can. I live in it. It is Oregon. I believe Washington State is the same, but I can’t swear by that.
Well, I know for sure Washington State allows dead people to vote(see last governors election) so it wouldn’t surprise me if they allow non-citizens. (
Terrye, that was the EXACT point of my “I’m a racist post” last night, because I KNEW, eventually, you, and others, would get around to calling me that, because I don’t want certain groups of people here; so I just decided to get it out of the way!
No, the old man who mowed your Grandma’s lawn, probably was a good guy!
That’s not the point.
The point I am trying to make, as well as Bikerken, is that we’ve seen ENOUGH of this type of behaviour, in some people, to give us REAL concerns.
And reread my post!
What did I say?
Bring in the darn entire country of Brazil, Nigeria, India, China, I don’t care!
But I’ve seen enough of the behaviour, that Bikerken and I have outlined, in Muslims, and Mexicans, that I do NOT want to give them unlimited, free, access, unless there are some CONTROLS!
And we know, that if this bill goes thru, there will be NO controls whatsoever, it’s a damn sham, a facade!
So, secure the damn border, then, let’s sort out the ILLEGALS already here!
Those who want work, assimiliate, contribute, and respect us as a nation and a culture, can stay!
Hell, I don’t even care if they become American citizens; they can stay, and work and contribute!
But the ones that hate us, and make no bones about it, I want them GONE!
It’s that simple, and we know who they are; they’re clowns like Bustamante, who was mentioned up above, they’re the LaRaza types and others that Costa pointed out; and yes, as horrible as it sounds, in general, it’s a lot, but NOT “All” Mexicans and Muslims.
So, I want extra special care in screen those two groups; they want to work, stay, not cause trouble, fine; good for them!
They want to implement a Reconquista on the SW US, or institute Sharia, up in Minneapolis at the Airport (I HOPE you know about that?); then NO, they GO!
It’s that plain, and that simple!