Jun 01 2007
Noonan’s Nonsense
Peggy Noonan is now blaming Bush for the far right’s three years of attacking moderates and attacking Bush on issues ranging from Miers, to Dubai Ports (another grand example of nativism which cost us cargo container inspection machines across the globe – paid for by our allies in the UAE) and now immigration reform:
President Bush has torn the conservative coalition asunder.
Sorry Peggy, but those who used the word RINO and who would keep the status quo on immigration at any cost (and with lots and lots of vitriol added in) are the ones who tore the conservative coalition apart. Don’t blame Bush. He didn’t accuse Miers of being a closet abortion rights activist, based on the muttering of one David Fromm who apparently had a personal vendetta against Miers. Bush did not go overboard when he allowed a perfectly legtimate business acquisition go forward simpy because the acquiring company was in the Middle East. A country that provides security and port services to our Navy and Marines in one of our largest overseas ports.
And Bush is not the one who will tank a bill that would finally allow us to deport immigrants who commit crimes (no – you cannot do that now since the law doesn’t allow it – which is why the cries to enforce the laws on the books are so naive). Those of us who support the guest worker program have been pilloried, while the far right goes on a hysterical tear claiming we are for open borders (no one is) and voting rights for aliens (no one is). And here is the essence of the insanity from the immigration hypochondriacs. While the Bill we want passed will finally allow us to remove the violent criminal immigrants (legal and illegal) from our streets, it is being held hostage by people who want more than a fine and back taxes from honest hard working people. Yep, that’s right. The bizarre logic on the right is it is beter to let the criminals roam around our streets so we can meet out more punishment on those fixing houses, doing women’s hair, landscaping, watching our children. When confronted with this cold, objective picture the far right goes on an even larger rampage. Don’t believe me? Watch the comments on this post and others.
Right now the far right has lost all credibility. I know droves of conservatives who are turning off talk radio. They can’t take the vitriol and self aggrandizing anymore. Radio microphones do not make one omnipotent. I can predict that the talking heads are going to see a huge drop off in loyal listeners. The fawning fans will still be there in some numbers, but the critical thinkers will have moved on. When a group of people would allow violent criminals even a month more in this country because the fines and penalties for the workers who toil beside us day in and day out is not a severe as they wanted then their priorities are screwed up. And yes, they are NOT doing what is right for America. Anytime we decide to let crime fester we are not doing right for America.
So Peggy, don’t blame Bush. He is still making sense. He would compromise with Dems to secure the border, get rid of criminal aliens and make it easier to find and detect terrorists. It is the far right who would throw all this away for some extra pound of flesh. Just like some liberals want to throw away the NSA monitoring program to get a pound of flesh from Bush. Peggy says Bush broke with them. I am here to say loudly I have broke with them too.
Update: Read more about dumb far right tricks. When you can be counted on to screw things up, then you cannot be counted on to govern well. Clearly the conservative movement that is aligned now repeatedly against Bush is out of gas. Their patience is exhausted and they are tired of compromise because it delays the coming of their perfect world. A vision they did not realize was not shared by all in every detail.
AJ: okay AJ, you win! I’m not posting on THIS TOPIC anymore!
You’re not rational on it, and you are SO defensive, because you’ve boxed yourself in, that you’re paying NO attention whatsoever to our questions, our logic, our evidence, you don’t answer the very pointed and germane questions we ask, and all you do is “love your own analysis” and hurl invective as a result!
That’s cool, it’s your Blog, you do as you wish; but you’re doing way worse, that what you are accusing all of us of doing!
I don’t understand it!
So, I will not comment, on THIS TOPIC again, I will not ask you any more questions, etc.
I’ll let it go, and move on to topics we DO agree with, such as the Jihadis!
AJ,
You have said many times you would rather see nothing change than let this bill pass.
That simply isn’t true AJ. I have made two attempts today at setting the record straight. Neither attempt made it through your spam filter.
What I have said in the past is that I would rather do nothing at than do something that makes the problem worse. I have been very clear about that. You are misrepresenting what I said. That is beneath you.
If you don’t secure the border prior to making everyone here legal, it will create a mad dash for the border. The mad dash will completely overwhelm our border patrol. And during that mad dash, it will be much easier for a terrorist to mix in with the crowd and make it into our country.
It is also not very humanitarian to further entice the poor and the needy to the South of us, prior to securing our border. People die in the desert trying to sneak into our Country, AJ. Many women are raped and abused by the smugglers. This bill, in its current form, will only entice more people to take the chance.
So this bill is bad from both a national security perspective and a humanitarian perspective.
I don’t have any dog in this fight (if you don’t count love of this Country – but I am assuming that we all love this Country). I am approaching this from a rational perspective and a what is in the best interest of America perspective.
Apache
Nope it’s not and upside down world.
Read any of the European blogs and think of all those we have running for office.
Read Egyptian blogs, Finish blogs, Indian blogs and newpapers.
Europe is having it’s fits and that is because they are 15 or 20 years ahead of us on the curve that some seem to want to place us.
Don’t get the hubris that we are some how unique and immune.
Every thing you see on the left here today has already been field tested down to the last small portion in Europe.
The only question left is if we can be herded just like them as they have been or just bypassed which is the more close reality.
Death by a thousand cuts does not imply a specific time line, just an end result.
Dale, that is an excellent idea.
Dale, that is an excellent idea.
Thank you AJ.
AJ, thank you for responding rationally and in concise fashion to Peggy’s bag of emotional angst. She makes me crazy and I end up stuttering and responding with as much emotional disarray as she emits. Her last week’s column was like a bad LSD trip, or one of the chick flicks on Lifetime for Women channel.
This column of hers is a bit more organized — or honest at least — and she is getting closer and closer to fully exposing her Bush Derangement affliction and her real agenda which is… what, exactly? Not sure, but she means to tear the whole mess down and build Peggy’s World for her new pals in Conservative La La Land. (What a partying Wonder Bread & Elevator Music place that’ll be, huh?) I do give Peggy credit for coming forth as a “broken” spirit (really a RINO as you point out). I disagree with her completely, but I wish her well on her trip to that wonderful new place where all is calm and well, and no one ever disrupts Peggy’s fragile sensibilities.
Is it my imagination, or are the proponents of this bill obsessed with personal attacks against people who don’t agree with it??
What is up with all of the personal attacks? Is this some new strategy for convincing people this is a good piece of legislation? Do they really think that strategy will work?????
If you want to convince me this is a good piece of legislation, I have a suggestion. Talk about the bill and be specific. Quote section and page number. Tell me why those sections are good for our Country.
Don’t hurl insults. Don’t call me a hardliner or hypocrite or deranged. That isn’t going to convince me that this is a good bill. And I rather doubt it is going to convince anyone else. It also reflects poorly on those doing the name calling. You aren’t helping the cause of the bill, and you aren’t helping yourselves either.
Apache – Funny, I didn’t notice Peggy citing chapter and verse of THE BILL. My response is on the same level as hers. And admittedly, probably just as irrelevant.
The personal attacks have been flying for several years now… and were begun by Far Rightists intent upon whipping up an issue to advance a private agenda which is becoming clearer and clearer to average people. For many moons, this crowd has inundated the airwaves with allegedly all-consuming, Armageddon-level, Life or Death stats, threats, loaded language & bumper sticker phrases, and scary scenarios that lie just over the horizon should we fail to heed their warnings and drink of their draconian bromides.
If you feel insulted, it may be because you are as emotionally entangled with the less visible agenda items as Peggy obviously is. I was there for awhile too. It really helps to turn off the noise and use your own powers of observation to see if the sky is falling, or if the invading hordes are really poised to capture D.C. within weeks.
I don’t feel insulted. I feel sad. I am sad that there are people who would prefer to silence rational debate by hurling personal attacks. I am sad that there obviously won’t be a rational debate on the merits of this bill, ant that means that the problem goes unfixed. And that isn’t good for our Country.
Well, kiddo, we agree on something. We DO need rational debate on the merits of the bill! It is possible, as the WSJ editors suggested, that the blowhards will take 3-4 weeks to run out of gas, and then an actual debate can commence. I don’t know about that… I can’t claim to predict or understand much of what is going on now — it’s just too noisy and overheated. Time will tell.
Don’t refer to me as “kiddo”. I am far from being a “kid”. And you aren’t my parent. And you aren’t my superior. And we aren’t friends.
You can’t stop yourself from personal attacks, can you? You do it without even realizing that you do it.
Funny how some say we need debate and we will get there eventually but they have not answered any of the specific questions offered for debate.
How does that balance exactly?
In the last several threads on this topic multiple specific objections , not generalities or pablum rejection as implied, but still our specific questions go unanswered.
Read back the thread if you have to.
Well, let’s just say “kiddo” was a family-friendly moniker — in an apparently vain attempt to keep things civil.
I am relieved to know I am not your parent, but miffed that you don’t think me superior. As for the friends issue… don’t be so sure until you’ve tasted my Penne a la Vodka.
AJ, this is my first post here. I read your post everyday and just haven’t got around to leaving a comment.
I agree completely with you about Peggy Noonan.
First of all, she is not the POTUS and can’t fill his shoes.
And her brain does not operate on a level anywhere near his even though she thinks her brain is supreme, better, whatever?
This article of hers is the second one that really ticked me off! It reeks of sophisticated snobbery because she knows how to use words to cut someone down in a Miss Manners style. As if she is operating on some level that is beyond our President – a level that he couldn’t possibly understand. All nonsense of course.
Such pride from a has-been. No longer important except in her mind.
Hiding behind words that she put out there in the public’s eye.
I also sense a religious snobbery – perhaps a judging of morals and so-called superior religious knowledge.
I’m really tired of the cesspool of Washington and the talking heads who think we are a bunch of dunderheads out here in America.
I believe in President Bush and trust his judgement.
I don’t trust or believe in most politicians or the people who think they run this country.
Keep up the good work and don’t let the cut and run, no honor or loyalty people get you down. They’re just plain wrong. They will pass away and President George Bush will, in ages to come be given the honor he deserves for saving our country.
A lot of nonsense being hurled about here, and mostly from the proponents of this bill. Getting control of the borders first doesn’t mean immigration ends and won’t be harmful to the economy. A lot of misreading of the polls — big majority want borders secured first & foremost. Most on the right are willing to compromise and do support a guest worker program — it’s the left that’s against it! And Peggy Noonan is rational and astute and more articulate than anyone here, and of course, she’s right about Bush.
A few notes
“I guess for the umpteenth time we have to remind the immigration hypochondriacs that the 9-11 attackers WERE HERE LEGALLY!!!â€
Wrong – Five of the 19 were illegal aliens, including the ringleader Mohammed Atta. Enforcing out immigration laws would have probably stopped 9-11. However, the deeper point is that all 19 were ineligible for visas to come to the United States under existing law. Why did they get visa? Because Bush will not enforce our immigration laws under any circumstances.
“The immigration issue has created a fissure because the far right, who have a lot of what they want in the Bush billâ€
Wrong – Rasmussen polling has show that the vast majority of Americans oppose the Senate bill, not just the far right. Why? Because the demand border security and they believe that this bill won’t provide it.
Wrong – There is virtually nothing of substance in this bill for the large majority of Americans who want real immigration reform. “Boob bait for bubba†is what the supposed reforms amount to. But don’t worry, the Amnesty is instant and brutally real.
“This bill finally makes deportation a punishment for committing violent crimes, including DUI’s. Right now you cannot deport someone for the commission of a violent crime. You can only deport them for being here illegally.â€
Wrong – Legal aliens have been deportable for serious crimes for decades. Illegal aliens have always been deportable. You know nothing about immigration law.
“In fact, the hypochondriacs would let the status quo remain, with criminal immigrants staying in country, because they want more punishment on those workers who do not have a criminal background.â€
Wrong – Criminal immigrants do stay in this country in vast numbers because Bush and friends refuse to enforce out existing laws. Check out the facts. We already have the laws to deport these people. They are ignored.
“Right now we cannot hold employers accountable to any real level because there is no repository to check if a worker is a valid immigrant worker.â€
Wrong – We already have a mechanism for detecting the use of fraudulent employment documents. It is called the Social Security “no match†system. However, Bush allows corporations to massively cheat. Some companies have a 1000 workers using the same SSN. Others are allowed to submit SSNs with all zeros. How exactly is the Amnesty bill going to change that?
“And the best aspect of all is the guest worker program – where not a soul is eligible to become a US citizenâ€
Wrong – To quote from the agricultural/immigration economist, Philip Martin, “there is nothing more permanent than a temporary workerâ€. They won’t go home after two years, they will simply become part of the next wave of illegal aliens.
To be blunt you appear to know almost nothing about immigration law or how our laws are not enforced.
You are also ignorant of the terrible impact that ordinary illegal aliens (the ones who are not terrorists and violent criminals) are having on our country.
The Senate bill rewards law-breakers and does nothing to improve actually border security. Don’t believe me? Read it. I have. If the sponsors actually thought that this bill would stop illegal immigration, then the Amnesty would come last and the border security first. However, they know that the only provision that will ever have any effect is the Amnesty which is why the Amnesty is immediate and the rest is a fiction.
Don’t kid yourself and don’t try to fool the American people. This is an Amnesty First, and Amnesty Only bill. Don’t believe me? Read the first sentence of the bill.
“I believe in President Bush and trust his judgement.”
Wow, the last Bush believer.
I didn’t think any still existed.
So sad.