Jun 01 2007
Noonan’s Nonsense
Peggy Noonan is now blaming Bush for the far right’s three years of attacking moderates and attacking Bush on issues ranging from Miers, to Dubai Ports (another grand example of nativism which cost us cargo container inspection machines across the globe – paid for by our allies in the UAE) and now immigration reform:
President Bush has torn the conservative coalition asunder.
Sorry Peggy, but those who used the word RINO and who would keep the status quo on immigration at any cost (and with lots and lots of vitriol added in) are the ones who tore the conservative coalition apart. Don’t blame Bush. He didn’t accuse Miers of being a closet abortion rights activist, based on the muttering of one David Fromm who apparently had a personal vendetta against Miers. Bush did not go overboard when he allowed a perfectly legtimate business acquisition go forward simpy because the acquiring company was in the Middle East. A country that provides security and port services to our Navy and Marines in one of our largest overseas ports.
And Bush is not the one who will tank a bill that would finally allow us to deport immigrants who commit crimes (no – you cannot do that now since the law doesn’t allow it – which is why the cries to enforce the laws on the books are so naive). Those of us who support the guest worker program have been pilloried, while the far right goes on a hysterical tear claiming we are for open borders (no one is) and voting rights for aliens (no one is). And here is the essence of the insanity from the immigration hypochondriacs. While the Bill we want passed will finally allow us to remove the violent criminal immigrants (legal and illegal) from our streets, it is being held hostage by people who want more than a fine and back taxes from honest hard working people. Yep, that’s right. The bizarre logic on the right is it is beter to let the criminals roam around our streets so we can meet out more punishment on those fixing houses, doing women’s hair, landscaping, watching our children. When confronted with this cold, objective picture the far right goes on an even larger rampage. Don’t believe me? Watch the comments on this post and others.
Right now the far right has lost all credibility. I know droves of conservatives who are turning off talk radio. They can’t take the vitriol and self aggrandizing anymore. Radio microphones do not make one omnipotent. I can predict that the talking heads are going to see a huge drop off in loyal listeners. The fawning fans will still be there in some numbers, but the critical thinkers will have moved on. When a group of people would allow violent criminals even a month more in this country because the fines and penalties for the workers who toil beside us day in and day out is not a severe as they wanted then their priorities are screwed up. And yes, they are NOT doing what is right for America. Anytime we decide to let crime fester we are not doing right for America.
So Peggy, don’t blame Bush. He is still making sense. He would compromise with Dems to secure the border, get rid of criminal aliens and make it easier to find and detect terrorists. It is the far right who would throw all this away for some extra pound of flesh. Just like some liberals want to throw away the NSA monitoring program to get a pound of flesh from Bush. Peggy says Bush broke with them. I am here to say loudly I have broke with them too.
Update: Read more about dumb far right tricks. When you can be counted on to screw things up, then you cannot be counted on to govern well. Clearly the conservative movement that is aligned now repeatedly against Bush is out of gas. Their patience is exhausted and they are tired of compromise because it delays the coming of their perfect world. A vision they did not realize was not shared by all in every detail.
AJ, if I lose, you lose. You lose in the higher taxes it will take to provide social services for another whole segment of our society that is at poverty level or below. You lose in the school taxes you pay to provide your kid with an education along with hundreds more whose parents pay no taxes. You lose in high insurance premiums because medical facilities and hospitals will have to bill your insurance company at a higher rate to offset the costs of “free” medical treatment for illegals. You lose in the strain that will be put on your police force, fire department, water supply, and all municipal services. And you especially lose because for the next four generations we will be, for all intent and purposes, a one party system with the Dhimmicrats moving us closer and closer to a socialist nation.
At least be honest AJ, and admit that somewhere down the line you have a dog in this hunt.
But when you come at me with your “far right” insinuations that I am a BushitlerRacistNazi, you should provide that part of the bill that backs up your claims of Nirvana through amnesty.
Good update AJ. The link has some good commentary from Kent Hentfling. Throw in Hillary’s speech on the need for a guest worker program that brings in more people with STEM backgrounds, currently here under H12B, and she actually makes some sense.
I never thought I would say Hillary makes sense. Thanks guys for pushing me over the edge. You all better get used to President Hillary Obama Edwards with super majorities in both houses. Politics is all about making a deal that is good enough today so that you can survive to make a deal tommorow to possibly improve your position further than you thought possible.
FE,
stop complaining about your feelings being hurt. Where talking immigration and you folks in the way of progress need a label. Get over it.
Left by AJStrata on June 1st, 2007
Where did I complain about my feelings being hurt? We’re talking illegal aliens and how to deal with them, and I stand foresquare on the side of solving the issue. But this draft bill has nothing in it that would solve any issue. None.
Do you personally ever plan to read the bill?
I am trying to rationally discuss this issue, as both Dale and Apache have asked to do, but so far, absolutely no response about the bill just name calling….
AJ
Surveys show 70% of the public want border enforcement first.
When did the hardliner right ever compose 70% of this country?
Do you think the only opposition to this bill is your self defined hard liner right?
I think the reality differs from that but we can honestly disagree.
BTW AJ
What is your position on Pres Bush’s new announcement on the US leading on controlling Global Warming?
Do you support him 100% on that? or is he wrong on ‘some’ issues?
TomAnon: that’s nonsense, and you know it.
Besides, you never heard me, nor anyone else here, who opposes this bill for legitimate reasons, say SQUAT about the need for H1B Hi-Tech workers, and their visas!
As AJ knows, I work in the HiTech industry, specifically, and I KNOW a bit about it, and the fact is, Hillary IS correct; we NEED to increase the H1B visa allotment, and continue to encourage as many qualified IT workers as possible, to continue to come to America.
Hell, my neighbor, and one of my wife’s and I best friends, is an IT worker from MEXCIO!
Great people!
But GUESS WHAT!
They came here LEGALLY, on a TN1 Visa for an IT job, and they are NOT “LaRaza”; they are NOT standing down by the Home Depot every morning, looking for work; they pay their taxes, they pay their own Co-pay when they go the ER, they don’t fly American Flags upside down, they’re good patriotic Mexicans, patriotic towards Mexico I might add, but you know what, the DON’T disrespect America and say they want to take it back for Mexico!
LEGAL, WORK, not a burden on the Social Services, Respect; and you know what, I’d take another 2 million, just like them tomorrow!
But we’re NOT talking about THEM!
And yes, Hillary is right about the H1B’s, but you don’t need THIS bill, to address THAT issue!
So, if that is your ONLY reason for turning against “us”; you’re fairly swayable!
Politics is all about making a deal that is good enough today so that you can survive to make a deal tommorow to possibly improve your position further than you thought possible
But once you give away the store and all rights to it,, you are not gonna survive to make any other deal. You can only hope, in the case of this Draft bill that the illegals don’t get enough votes to vote your right to vote away.
Merlin,
Rassmussen is afraid to ask the real question: This Bill (a) or nothing (b).
2-1 people want something done and are tired of the far right saying only our ideas can be allowed to pass. They lost congress over this kind of stunt and now they are losing their credibility. If you think I am worried about this you are mistaken. I am absolutely happy it is happening.
So here we have illegal crossers for work or whatever being authorized to stay, but in Florida we see the strange concept of the wet foot/dry foot concept of political asylum for people escaping Cuba.
Someone please explain to me the logical disconnect with all that.
So if we catch you before you set foot on dry land in Florida we send you back to Cuba, but if you go through Mexico and cross the border you win the door prize for good status.
Lets not forget if you dry foot through Florida, you aren’t home free, you only get the chance to apply for asylum and you still risk getting sent back.
Rassmussen is afraid to ask the real question: This Bill (a) or nothing (b).
2-1 people want something done and are tired of the far right saying only our ideas can be allowed to pass.
What about?
This Bill (a) or nothing (b). the right thing (c)
people want something done and are tired of the far right saying only our ideas can be allowed to pass.
and they said this…..where?
and only our ideas means what? enforce the laws, secure the borders then establish a workable guest worker program?
Yea, who would want to do something that ridiculous?
AJ: that’s misdirection, and you’re smart enough to know it!
Rassmussen is not afraid to ask anything, he’s the best poller out there, period! Makes Zoby look like the pro-Leftist Jihadi supporter that he is!
He didn’t ask the question that you say, because it’s not relevant; and who says it’s the “real question”? Just because the poll has a result that you don’t like?
“2-1 people want something done and are tired of the far right saying only our ideas can be allowed to pass. ”
Does it say that somewhere in the Poll results AJ? Was that one of Rassmussen’s poll questions?
“They lost congress over this kind of stunt and now they are losing their credibility.”
Here you go with the “they”‘s again.
Is that the “Republicans”?
AJ: you support President Bush in a 100% of the things he does. You’re primary motivation, behind wanting this Immigration Bill, boils down to one thing, and one thing only, so that by passing it, it can fool enough Hispanics into voting Republican, so that Republican’s can get back into power; that’s been your only rational displayed so far, despite repeated, polite attempts by myself, and others, to offer us some rational explaination!
Then, you claim, you’re glad the “far-right” is destroying itself over this bill, and that Republicans have lost power forever, basically because of the racist hardliners, like myself and Apache and Bikerken, etc.
Then, you get mad because unnamed people use the term “Rino” on people, but you claim you are not “hard-right”, not a “Rino”; etc.!
Where are you exactly AJ?
How can you be a 100% supporter of President Bush, in everything he does, not be a “hard right” conservative supporter, not be a “RINO”, not be a Democrat, etc.
Are you claiming you’re an “Independent”?
If so, why do you care if the Republican party has doomed itself, as you say?
And yet, the Rassmussen poll shows, that if you are an “Independent”, that even Independents, and Democrats, those to left of you, DON’T support this Bill!
You’ve got me REALLY confused now, AJ!
AJ
You keep throwing out that this thing or nothing stuff like those are the only choices.
The bill could be modified so all can be satisfied, but to get there it with destroy the gang of 12 backers because a good bill that realistically approach the issue would have little likelihood of support from the left.
I am not saying my way or the highway by that but saying the optimal bill is simply not showing broad support.
AJ , you yourself claim the right only consists of 30% of the country, so obviously the hardliners have to be some subset of that group and thus less than 30%.
The opposition to this bill as written goes far beyond that.
Direct question, asked by others, Have you read the bill??????
A simple yes or no.
I am watching the floor hearings, the bill itself is almost non existent in the proceedings, it is all about the amendments to the bill and not the bill proper.
There are only a few sections of this bill as written that are mandatory. The vast majority of them are phrased with pending funding loopholes.
Simple funding choices or non funding choices can morph this bill into a totally different concept to the bill of goods that is being sold.
AJ, illegal immigration has increased due to employers hiring them for sub-standard wages. The new bill will require that they not only be paid minimum wages but “prevailing” wages. OK, I agree with that. But you then have to ask if that is the case, what is the incentive for employers to hire illegals in the first place. If they are going to be required to pay a livable wage, why would they hire illegals? Why not legal American citizens? And will they lay off the newly minted legals when they have to increase their wage scale? Do you really think companies like Tyson Chicken will go quietly into the night and restore their wage scale to the level it was before they laid off American workers and started importing illegal workers? Or do you think that we will then see MASSIVE unemployment in the illegal sector? And if they are unemployed, who picks up the tab for the unemployment benefits?
For every action, there is a reaction. You do not want to address the reaction (mostly market) that will come with this bill.
You say “it is a good thing” but offer no part of the bill that proves that statement.
Argue the bill, AJ. Not your emotional reactions.
Senator Jim Demint has a piece for AJ to ignore at that Crazy Zany Nut Job Web Site I read: National Review. You know, those wackoes who have actually read the bill.
David frum had an email I’d like to share:
Another One of Those Foaming at the Mouth Yahoos [David Frum]
A reader copies me on a letter he sent Sen. McConnell.
I am so tired of the Washington elites and the media elites (especially Republican Senators) treating me like an ignorant, uninformed racist.
My wife and I have spent years working with Hispanic and Asian immigrants in poor, gang-ridden neighborhoods. We have taught English —- we have helped keep kids in school —- we have encouraged girls not to have babies when they are 15 years old —- we have done food and clothing distribution —- we have organized summer sports leagues.
What do Senators know about illegal immigrants that we don’t know? Nothing.
We don’t support the Immigration Bill because we are certain that it will make the problems worse, not better.
We don’t support the Immigration Bill because we are certain that we and our children will pay more and more in taxes and direct expenses to support schools and hospitals and fire departments and police forces by adding another 30 or 50 million low-income immigrants to the population.
We don’t support the Immigration Bill because we are certain that the same Senators who refuse to enforce existing immigration laws will refuse to enforce the new laws (except for those provisions that grant immediate legal status to present illegals and immediate legal status to all of their “chain migration” relatives).
Yes, Senator, my wife and I are getting angrier every day. We consider ourselves part of the informed, active grass roots Republicans that got George Bush and the current crop of Senators elected. We are disgusted with your performance and will not support any of you in the future.
I am leaving the Republican Party.
Dave Holsclaw
Castle Rock, Colorado
This particular yahoo has a Ph.D. by the way.
Yet more:
Divorce? [David Frum]
Another reader writes:
It’s not just a divorce. It’s a messy, mean, nasty, “war of the roses” type divorce.
I am a lawyer in the Midwest. For the last 6 years I have daily lunched with my law partners, all of whom are partisan Democrats. I have argued about and defended President Bush for those 6 years besides voting for the man twice. I’ve vigorously defended the president, especially his handling of the war on terror, and I’ve proudly taken all of my partners’ best shots about what a lying, incompetent we have for a president. And then yesterday I learn that the president thinks I don’t want what’s best for America simply because I oppose rewarding ILLEGAL aliens with an opportunity to remain legally in this country.
05/31 03:45 PM
It’s Divorce [David Frum]
That’s what has happened between President Bush and his party over this immigration bill. And if they insist on pursuing it, I fear it is what will happen between the Senate GOP leadership and the party base as well. The issue has already all but killed the McCain candidacy. A letter from a reader expresses the sadness and anger I see in so much of my mail:
I voted twice for this man and his abdication of the most fundamental executive responsibility, to protect our country from foreign invasion, is cause for regret.
Talk is cheap. The most responsible course of action that this president can take on immigration is to do nothing. Leave it for the next president. Focus on Iraq and then go home.
Signing this bill would render what little good he has done meaningless by comparison.
I wish he were already gone.
05/31 02:21 PM
The President Is Losing Me [Mark R. Levin]
I guess it’s legacy time over at the White House. The president is imitating Arnold Schwarzenegger now. Does the president have any conservative domestic initiatives that he’s actively pursuing? If so, I’d like to know what they are. Richard Nixon tried this when his ratings were low. It didn’t work.
Mr. President, the Left hated you the day you walked into the Oval Office, if not before. Their hate for you is frozen in time. If you actually believe in what you are doing, then I and many others misjudged you. You expanded the federal role in education, and we held our nose because of the war. You signed McCain-Feingold in the dead of night, and we held our nose because of the war. You expanded Medicare by adding prescription drugs, and we held our nose because of the war. You increased farm subsidies, and we held our nose because of the war.
Today you disparage us for opposing a massive amnesty program that endangers our economy and national security. Today you even embrace the religion of global warming, a stunning shift from prior policy (your administration even went to the Supreme Court and argued correctly that carbon dioxide is not a pollutant).
What’s a conservative to do?
05/31 03:40 PM
“Outsiders Like Us” [David Frum]
Robert Stacy McCain speaks (I’d guess) for a lot of people in this column in the American Spectator ….
Nor is there any need to insult the citizenry, as President Bush has repeatedly done, by telling us that illegal aliens are “doing jobs Americans won’t do.” My own daughter waits tables at Pizza Hut to earn her college tuition, my wife works part-time as a provider of janitorial services, and both of my brothers are truck drivers. Are my kindred not American, Mr. President?
06/01 06:33 AM
Who reads Peggy Noonan, Chris Matthews’ good friend, anyway?
And I believe the WSJ editorial board has read what is available of this bill-it is not a law. It is not even a completed bill…no?
FACTS.
I guess there is a constiuentcy in this country that wants us to have higher prices, an economic depression, high unemployment, high inflation because that’s what we’re gonna get from the naysayers…or worse. Misery loves miserable company. Or how ’bout this: a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
Look for this phrase thought the bill
“subject to the availability of appropriations for such
purpose”
Count the number of occurrences.
Then go see how the power of the purse can gut or twist it as the party in power desires.
It is a total Trogan Horse by Kennedy, since he believes they will maintain or expand their votes in the 08 elections due to the number of at risk seats.
Who reads Peggy Noonan, Chris Matthews’ good friend, anyway?
Kinda makes AJ’s “Far Right” comments look silly, doesn’t it?
I always thought of her as a calm, rational person myself.
this is the NEW position on Global Warming.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/32856c56-0f84-11dc-a66f-000b5df10621.html
I’m reasonably sure you don’t agree with the Pres on this. it is the anti-thesis to your normal position on GW.
I guess there is a constiuentcy in this country that wants us to have higher prices, an economic depression, high unemployment, high inflation because that’s what we’re gonna get from the naysayers…or worse. Misery loves miserable company. Or how ’bout this: a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
Actually, some of us would like the Entitlement Programs to be there for US, when we retire!
As for the Unemployement nonsense, 45% of Illegals, work off the books NOW! At LOW wages. Raise your Wages, enforce Workplace laws, and plenty of actual Americanwill aply. Ask Swift Packing about that. The RAISED their wages, and amazingly, they were able to hire Legal Citizens to replace their Illegal workers!
Yes, knowledge is a dangerous thing. Perhaps you should read some web sites that you are aparently avoiding! Might I even suggest reading some Alien Books! You just never know what you can learn from someone who spent a year researching this topic, then took 250 pages to tell you what they found!
Just a thought! Go on, give it a try, what do you have to loose, other than Ignorance?