Jun 02 2007
More Far Right Insults
Charles Krautheimer has joined the Immigration Hypochondriacs in insulting those conservatives who want more than just border secrurity:
U.S. Immigration Bill Is Served Up With A Large Side Of Stupidity And Farce
Ahh – the eloquance and maturity from the far right! LOL! Of course this death spiral on the right is all predicated on their warped logic on some simple poll numbers:
A Rasmussen poll had shown that 72 percent of Americans thought border enforcement and reducing illegal immigration to be very important. Only 29 percent thought legalization to be very important.
But 65% in Rassmussen’s poll also support a compromise in the form of a guest worker program. So how is it possible? Simple – we have two camps on the conservative side. One camp supports borders and a guest worker program. The other opposes any guest worker program. So what is the 72% who support borders? Clearly it is both camps who agree on this and this alone. But those willing to accept a guest worker program in order to get a bill passed is 65%. That means less than 10% are so hard over they would tank the entire Bill over the guest worker provisions.
This is all inside Rasmussen’s own numbers. It mirrors the polls going back years showing support for the guest worker program (which cannot hope to work with out border enhancements – and vise versa). So while Krautheimer throws insults I can still do basic math. And the immigration hypochondriacs, while vocal and having some of the best media megaphones, do not have the numbers to pull off their little temper tantrums. And they are burning their bridges fast. When the polls come out next week and the margins have not changed, then what will be the next threat from the right? They will stop talking?? One could hope they could just stop being so damn nasty.
This is a strange time we live in. It seems that more people listen to commentators, liberal or conservative, than they do their own congressmen.
We have 535 elected officals in Washington. They go to all these hearings and have staffs that we pay to do enormous fact finding. Yet open your newspaper or look at the News shows and we are more apt to find Commentators rather than our Elcted officals on TV. Why is Michelle Malkin more knowledge than say Rep Chris Cannon of Utah? I find the situation even worse on conservative news channels and outlets. We know politicians love cameras so I suspect the reason is not because of lack of interest.
I have more people come up and say well George will or Malkin , or Noonan said this. But they rarely even think to ask what their Congressman thinks.
This brings up something I would love to know. Why are we not seeing more Hispanic Republicans and elected officals on these shows. It is almost like they don’t exist. That is of course not true since there are tons of them. Are they not being booked by the MSM because they don’t fit the story line? Why do Conservative medias and major blogs not give these people an outlet to state their case. TO my knowledge the Hispanic Republicans that we have elected acrross the nation in Congress support this reform. One argument I hear is that this immigration bill will cause one party rule forever. It would be nice to see them on the air more to refute that if they can.
Less Malkin and company and more people we elect need to to be in this debate.
TANGENTIAL TOPIC:
Terror Plot Thwarted at JFK
from Drudge…
Good reason to secure the borders, by the way…
Details coming…
Notice the bizarre connection to “Guyana”!
You heard it HERE first, can you say:
Shukrijumah
When this bill came out I heard Krauthammer on Special Report saying he had no problem with amnesty. None, that is what he said then.
I think that most Americans consider security a priority but that does not mean they don’t support any other provisions in the bill. For some reason there are people on the right who are trying to make this an either or situation and it does not need to be that way.
AJ, spinning again? Yes, I can accept that 65% of American would support some form of compromise, but as the poll stated, LOUD AND CLEARLY, only if they were guaranteed the bill would reduce illegal immigration and the majority don’t think it will.
So you, and our President, accuse of of “cherry picking” while you do the same? Yet neither one of you are willing to answer the hard questions. Wonder why that is?
Americans want enforcement first. It is just that simple and no amount of “cherry picking” on your part will change that fact. You can name call, rant and rave about the “right wingers” and you still are backing a bill that most Americans see right thru. One also has to wonder if the loop holes in this bill are so obvious to us in fly-over country, why they are not obvious to you.
From The Washington Times, June 2, 2007
“Bush scolds balking GOP
snip/” Senators will try to finish up the bill next week. ”
It’s not even a completed bill …
Ro5,
I simply pointed out the number support my contention that the Immigration Hypochondriacs are small minority and vast majorities want a bill – not the status quo. Whining about the numbers won’t change them. Americans want enforcement AND to deal with the 12-20 million illegals here now. You can keep pretending that “AND” doesn’t exist – but it does. Poll after poll show it is there. Even Rasmussens. I am not trying to convince you this is real. Reality will do that for me soon enough.
We can do the battle of the polls I guess. Ever notice how polls are only valid when they say what we want to hear and when they constradict themselves, we are lost? Kind of makes you wonder how people made up their minds about issues before the telephone survey came along.
I saw an excerpt from the NYT poll over at Big Lizards I will use it because the poll itself is behind some kind of wall or something.
61. If you had to choose, what do you think should happen to most illegal immigrants who have lived and worked in the United States for at least two years: They should be given a chance to keep their jobs and eventually apply for legal status, OR They should be deported back to their native country?
Chance to apply for legal status: 62%; Deported: 33%
63. Would you favor or oppose allowing illegal immigrants who came into the country before January to apply for a four-year visa that could be renewed, as long as they pay a $5,000 fine, a fee, show a clean work record and pass a criminal background check?
Favor: 67%; Oppose: 27%
64. ASKED OF THOSE WHO FAVOR: Should they be allowed to apply for U.S. citizenship just like legal applicants, or should they have to wait until legal applicants have been considered first?
Should be like legal applicants: 16%; Should have to wait: 69%
On the question of increasing penalties on employers who knowingly hire illegals, 75% favor increased enforcement including higher fines, 15% favor increased enforcement without higher fines, and 8% oppose increased enforcement. On “guest workers,” 66% favor and 30% oppose.
And here’s the biggie:
73. When the US government is deciding which immigrants to admit to this country, should priority be given to people who have family members already living in the U.S., or should priority be given to people based on education, job skills, and work experience?
Family: 34%; Workers: 51%, Depends: 5%.
AJ: everyone here, that thinks like I think on this Bill, LE, R05, Bikerken, etc., have ALL said we support a Guest Worker Program!
All of us!
We’ve NEVER said we were against it!
However, we’ve all said we don’t believe this Bill, affords us a Guest Worker Program, that is any BETTER than what we currently have, in fact, it is worse!
You’re putting words in our mouths, that none of us, that I can recall, ever said!
I seem to recall that the white-hot outrage over the Dubai Ports Deal was justified with polls too.
Could someone please tell me when Americans who believe in the rule of law and the sovereignty of the United States became “hypochrondriac right wingers”? Since when is wanting laws enforced not a good thing?
I, along Dale, FE and Bikerken has all laid out the reasons this bill is a disaster. Apache has quoted the bill itself. And we have received no arguments on the merits of the bill. Anyone who puts rationale before emotion will understand that the bill doesn’t fix the problem (since there is nothing new in the bill) but exacerbates the problem. If you want to convince us that it is “a good thing” then show us where we are wrong. Do not use cherry picked questions from a poll to prove a point because the poll is only as good as it is in it’s entirety.
So this bill is passed. Then what? All the “triggers” are then removed by a Senate and Congress that is controlled by those who are looking for votes and the complete and total takeover by the Dhimmicratic Party.
Argue the merits of the bill, AJ. Stop the name calling. Realize that people, other than yourself, are just as capable of understanding what this bill says as you are. And some may be, just may be, as smart or even smarter than you are and can see the end result that will be disasterous for our nation, our economy and our two party system. Explain to me why Hillary Clinton has hired a LaRaza big wig to be part of her campaign. Explain to me how a immigrant, on the bottom rung of the wage scale, is going to pay a $5,000.00 fine when he makes $300.00 ($15,600 a year). Show me how our federal agencies, ICE in particular, can complete a background check that includes an inquiry to a foreign nation, in 24 hours or less. Hell, when you apply for a concealed carry permit in Texas you are advised that the background check will take 30-60 days. Explain to me how this prevents a wave of new illegals who have all learned to say “December 31, 2006” in English. Explain to me how you would prove they were not here last December 31st when all it take is two “non-related” witnesses (in other words, other illegals) to say they were. Explain to me the punishment for the slug that stole my Social Security number and used it to work in a number of states I have never been in. Explain to me how this bill benefits the host nation and not the citizens of a foreign nation.
And then, explain to me how Mexico itself, handles foreign invaders who enter Mexico without permission.
As I said, if we were talking about white, French Canadians, we would not be having this conversation. Immigration has been reduced to the new “civil rights” movement with tons of money being poured into organizations like LULAC, La Raza. Hell, one Congressman even has a bill to give LaRaza millions in federal funding.
So argue on the merits of the bill, AJ and Terrye. And I will be willing to listen to your viewpoints and why you think it is a good thing. But so far I have only seen hyperventilating on your part with no substantial basis except emotion.
I don’t think that is too much to ask. Honesty in debate.
Retire05 I was gonna say this:
AJ, spinning again? Yes, I can accept that 65% of American would support some form of compromise, but as the poll stated, LOUD AND CLEARLY, only if they were guaranteed the bill would reduce illegal immigration and the majority don’t think it will.
but since you said it so well, all I have to say is \’ditto\’
I\’m for a guest worker program, after the border is secure
That\’s not the sections of the \’compromise bill(which I have read) that I oppose. It is the immediate legalizations of all illegals that I oppose.
And will someone tell me when a handful of people get to decide that the rest of us do NOT believe in the sovereignty of the United States just because we fail to fall in line with the self anointed self righteous segment of the right who seem to think they are the only ones who count?
And as for putting words in people’s mouths, I have said time and again that I support border security and a wall and in spite of that I have been told time and again that I believe in open borders, do not support the rule of law and have no respect for my own country’s sovereignty.
Terrye:
And will someone tell me when a handful of people get to decide that the rest of us do NOT believe in the sovereignty of the United States just because we fail to fall in line with the self anointed self righteous segment of the right who seem to think they are the only ones who count?
I don’t know who you are referring too? Surely not me, LE, Apache, Bikerken, R05 etc.?
None of us have EVER said anything REMOTELY like that; we’ve voiced our opinions, our experiences, and our objections, etc., and no one here ever said you couldn’t have your opinion, that we get to decide for you, and no one has ever said that you don’t believe in “sovereingty”, etc.!
Who here, has said you “don’t count”?
Please quote one quote, from any one of us, that said that YOU “don’t count”, you don’t get to decide, that we get to decide for you, etc.!
The fact is, I truly suspect, that this bill IS going to pass; I don’t want it to, until MAJOR changes are made, but I have no control over it.
But I DO suspect it WILL pass, as is, which means that YOU and the people that think like you, GOT TO DECIDE FOR US!
Now, isn’t that ironic?
I am a legal immigrant from Germany, and came to the USA many years agao, accompanying my husband who served the department of defense. When we applied for my visa, it was pure hell.
I faced the danger that my husband was forced to take the children but without me.
I lived in Nigeria prior to my marriage employment related, to my husband, and was considered a ‘political risk’, why I have no idea to this day. Never was I politically active. I was required to provide a police certificate from the nigerian government, which is unheard of in that country. My second hurdle was to provide lung x-rays, and doctors certficates that I was a healhty person. I consider myself well educated, and have never relied on anything other than my own hard work, raising three small children, even after my husband ended our marriage after 15 yrs.
Now, never in my wildest dreams would I demand rights in this country, after all it is my host country, and I have always respected the laws in the land I live.
What I have witnessed on TV with the demonstrations etc., is beyond me, and not at all fair to those of us who were put through the ringer before being allowed a visa, facing the danger of losing my children. Only after many more visit, demand on paperwork etc.. was I allowed to accompany mu husband who could no longer serve overseas after 10 yrs.
Living in California it is almost overbearing because one thinks I live in Nogales, Latinos have taken over everything, apartments, jobs, and lines along the main street is filled with men waiting to picked up for work. The rudeness I encounter, and witness day after day, disregard for rules, and laws is beyond me.
I do never understand why all these illegals are allowed to come here in the first place, the burden is seen everyday in hospitals, and the school close by is for hispanics only.
I feel if we, the legal immigrants have to provide all these documents, and verifications of good health, why not these illegal immigrants? Not to mention the cost involved for me to come here, it was quite a lot.
I would all of you really think about this issue, I do not believe it is a far right vs others issue, but rather a issue of security, among other things.
Terrye, is this your new stance; adopt the position of victim? Poor Terrye, poor AJ. We dimwitted “right wingers” are going to take away your choice?
Where have any of us questioned your support for border security? Where?
Again, y0u chose not to argue the bill on its face, but rather chose to now, in true Jesse Jackson style, portray the victim of a “vast right wing conspiracy”. Give me a break.
Bottom line, Terrye? You have no legitimate argument to the points of the bill that has been brought before you. You cannot show one aspect of this bill that is “good for America”. It is only good for the citizens of foreign nations. And that is a fact you can’t seem to grasp.
No one here that has questions as to the sanity of this bill has called you any names (although you have no problem equating me to Nazis and cattle cars). No one has questioned your loyality to our nation. What we have questioned is the rationale you use in determining that this bill is worth passing.
Since you seem to be playing on emotion only with little to back you up in the form of rational debate, perhaps it is you who should read the bill and rethink your position. At least if you read the bill, you could state, point by point, what you agree with it. But alas, I fear that is too much to ask from you.
AJ, Have you read the comprehensive immigration reform bill?
AJ,
The very Rasmussen poll you link to clearly states that only 26% of those surveyed support the Senate immigration bill. 48% oppose it.
Further, 41% believe illegal immigration will increase as a result of its passage. 33% believe will the stay the same (in other words, would maintain the status quo). Only 16% believe illegal immigration will decrease if the Senate bill is passed.
Yet you make as if most Americans are in favor of this bill, and only the “Hard Right” oppose it.
Might I also note it is a little disingenuous to accuse Krauthammer of insulting conservatives on the basis of how his opinion piece was titled:
“U.S. Immigration Bill Is Served Up With A Large Side Of Stupidity And Farce”
Need I remind you, syndicated columnists rarely have any say as to how their opinion pieces are headlined. That’s usually the purview of the editorial staff, not the writer. And certainly Krauthammer would have had no input whatsoever into the editorial policies of “the Day”, whoever they are.
For the record, here’s how Krauthammer’s article was titled when it appeared at the Washington Post and Real Clear Politics (Google it):
“Get In Line, Einstein”
Krauthammer was originally for this bill before it was actually written, when they said what they were going to do, he supported it. I saw him say that several times on Brit Humes show. It was after he actually looked at it that he changed his mind because he realized that it was a total sham. If the bill is signed, all illegals aliens in this country who have some form of a written statement signed by two pepole saying they were here before 2007 are considered to be in a temporary legal status. That status they will then be in allows them to travel in and out of the country, work, get drivers licenses, and as a result of that, probably vote in most of the states. They will be able to renew that status every few years till they DIE. They don’t have to apply for citizenship, the vast majority will not. They don’t want or need it. If that is not total amnesty, I would like to know what you think it is. All of this garbage about they will be deported for this or that, HOW? If the border is still a sieve, what doe’s it matter?
The reason this bill actually does more harm than good is that anyone who crosses the border in the future, and there will be a massive surge at the border, only has to come up with a piece of handwritten paper to stay here legally. The surge has started already.
If you owned a drive-in movie in a small town and you had a few teenagers sneaking in under the fence, you would just run them off. If you had a few dozen in a night, you would probably hire a security guard to patrol the fence but you still really wouldn’t think it was a big problem. If you had a thousand sneaking in, being loud and obnoxious every night and ticket sales dwindled off down to a trickle, face it, you’re showing free movies. If you want to stay in business, you better do something radically different. Tearing down the ticket booth is not the answer. It sure would be if you listened to the teenagers sneaking in every night. Hey, they are just kids watching movies, right? Whats wrong with that? They can’t afford the price of admission like the older folks can and some don’t even have cars, how can you be such a hard ass against them? You must hate teenagers! That’s what it is! You’re just an old cranky fart and you have a real problem with a few teenagers watching a movie! Well, we’re going to out-vote you, were going to pass a city ordinance to allow the teenagers into the movies as long as they promise to sit quietly up front and not bother anybody. And you know, it wouldn’t hurt you to kick in a few bucks to buy a few cheap old cars for these kids, now would it?
This problem has been allowed to go on too long and now it has become so big that it calls for drastic measures to fix it. This bill answers that problem by just giving up on the rule of law and promising to fix the source of the problem later……if we decide to fund it. That’s why Krauthammer changed his mind, it is a fraud and everyone knows it!