Jun 02 2007
O’Reilly Goes Too Far
Bill O’Reilly has become another example of the far right, Immigration Hypochondriacs running into the sewer because they have lost their minds and the argument on the comprehensive immigration bill supported by large majorities since it includes both border protection and a guest worker program. Jerks like O’Reilly cannot tolerate the guest worker program with fines and back taxes due as punishment for working here without documentation. And this intolerance is seen in their immature and hateful nativist comments, like what just spewed out of O’Reilly’s big mouth:
Bill O’Reilly asserted that the proposed immigration reform bill is supported by “people who hate America, and they hate it because it’s run primarily by white, Christian men. Let me repeat that. America is run primarily by white, Christian men, and there is a segment of our population who hates that, despises that power structure.” He continued: “So they, under the guise of being compassionate, want to flood the country with foreign nationals, unlimited, unlimited, to change the complexion — pardon the pun — of America. Now, that’s hatred, too.”
As a white, now non-practicing Christian man I can only say this: Forget You O’Reilly. Clearly you are insecure about people of color being too close to you. Similarly to how the Nazis hated the Jews for poisoning the German culture, too many on the right spew this garbage about polluting our country out of fear of having to deal with people of other cultures. And they call us Un-American. What an ugly and pathetic comment.
Addendum: OK, I cleaned up the text and the HTML – since I was trying to spill this post out fast so my family could go to downtown Herndon and see the fireworks and left it pretty mangled. And after reading O’Reilly’s full text I find less offensive – but only barely. The fact is O’Reilly was trying to include the far left as supporters of the current Bill – which they are not. La Raza and the other far left groups do not like this bill because it eliminates the citizenship option for temporary workers and requires the background checks to eliminate the criminal element. So instead of being 100% irritated with O’Reilly I am 98% irritated because the guy simply used a lie to try and scare people from supporting the Bill. In a classic race baiting move reminiscent of the Dubai Ports fiasco O’Reilly must have been trying to reach our collective inner Klansman. Thankfully not very many people would fall for such a mob-mobilizing stunt. Sadly enough do. I wonder how many opponent of the guest worker program (which has limits on the numbers allowed, requires maximum stays, has that tamper-proof IDz with an expiration date to get jobs, and no option to apply for citizenship) will take O’Reilly to task for this?
You’re absolutely correct Ordi, Oreilly had even exposed that link to Soros on his show before.
Enforcement, Even though I am just commenting on this blog I am no stranger to this issue. I ahve been involved with this for now two years.
First, lets be clear here. The bill(Senate version) is still a work in process. I have interacted with a great deal because Idoo volunteer work for the Church that does to say the least put me in contact with illegals in the last week as we are trying to gear up for what is coming.
You ask if I am liberal leftie. I have worked to long in the GOP and going door to door for Republican candidates and missing too many deer hunting days because I was working the Parih fair for conservative Canidate X to ever be called a leftie. I am part of that coaltion of conservative Catholics and people friendly to business concerns and the military that have gotten the GOP people elected
First time to get rid of your bias, You say there is only one provision that will be enforced. You can believe that if you want but that is pretty much without fact or merit. We are not going to build a huge verification system and ID card and not use it.
As to deportation. First let us be clear. What we have is Temp Z. The purpose of this is to get people signed up and quick. Why? Because this probationary period of signing up can not go on forever. For this bill to work that intial sign up must proceed as fast as possible for several reasons. One is to make sure we can cut off any late comers. Some will get through but a quick process will cut those numbers down. The second is to get the data processed and under the system the cards made and the info into a worker verification computer as quick as possible. As soon as that is completed the enforcement measures against Employers can be enforced. That again is the big key to this bill. Without the Verfication and Card this thing fails
Now needless to say there will be ones that will not sign up for various reasons. Man power can be used to deport these folks.
I am not sure what the objection is to the no deportations during the sign up status. It is not like we can process 12 million people in a week. In the end the bill is about making a process work.
Again I am not uniformed on this. I know the basic concepts that the Senators are trying to get out. THis is not my first rodeo dealing with how the sausage of legislation is made.
That must have been because of pasting regular text AFTER the link. Hmmm. Well, know we know how to fix that in the future.
AJ,
On the off chance that you are searching through the proposed draft immigration bill, looking for the answer to my previous question, perhaps you can look for something else during your search.
I have been able to ascertain that a “Z nonimmigrant” visa will have to a processing fee “not greater than $1,500”. But I am having a little difficulty determining how much they will pay in “fines and penalties”.
Can you please help me out with this one? How much will a “Z nonimmigrant visa” applicant have to pay in fines and penalties??
Please quote paragraph and page number, so that I may be a mature, informed and responsible citizen.
It seems a little odd that someone could break into our Country, use another persons SSN for the last 10 years, and walk away scott free after paying a processing fee which could be as little as $500, but no more than $1,500 max. That just can’t be true.
Many thanks.
Bikerken,
possibly the reason that employers are fighting the fines is that they don’t want to go out of business if they are found hiring illegals. I am not sure how you make the jump to employers trying to fight heavy fines to them keeping hiring illegals. They know if the fines get in then the jig is up.
O’Reilly is right and you’re wrong.
memorable quotes from this debate –
“We’re gonna tell all this bigots to shut up!” U.S. Senator Lindsey Graham while addressing La Raza. Let that one sink in for a little while.
“If it looks like a sh*t sandwich, smells like a sh*t sandwich, and tastes like a sh*t sandwich – it’s a sh*t sandwich.” Yours truly, Apache_IP
BIGLSU, my point is that there are about 20 percent of the current illegals who will not qualify for z visas because of criminal records, etc. Those people are going to try to work somewhere and shady employers are going to hire them because they will not be required to be paid the “prevailing wage” that the newly legalized workers will get. Fighting this provision shows that there will be some who continue trying to pay people under the table.
Bikeken,
First off I was 16 in 1986. Back in 86 I still had serious concerns that was going to be vaporized by a Soviet missle hitting Barksdale Airforce base. We are dealing with different dynamics here
Second, I think we as conservatives need to really try to not to go overboard to demonize business here. Whether big or small. I know of companies largely small that would go out of business if they did not have this labor supply. Buiness is a part of this Republican coalition we have and at times we sound like rabid Democrats that talk about the evils of profit.
THird, the 12 million are not going anywhere. THey have 3.1 million American kids right now. They have numerous American releatives that vote. The 12 million are here and under the current political regime that we can expect ot have there will be no massive deportations or agendas put in place so that they will all leave by attrition. We are now in a situation where all the different groups have to agree and bite the bullet. As I have said the far left is screaming on this and for good reason. No one is going to get what they want.
The problem is that this race to the border will continue under the status quo. That is just a fact. The problem is that your position that you wish to enforce which I am assuming is no regularization for the illegals is going to be one that get s weaker to do politically year after year this problem goes unaddressed. Your worst fears become true by not giving this bill a shot. So far I have not heard the other side on the right that opposes this bill to give a realistic political alternative or something that will pass. THis is a Democratic Congress we have and it shall stay that way prob for at least 4 years if not more.
Bikerken
There will always be some shady employers. But this is where the magic of the market comes in. No guy building houses and working the system is going to seat by and his competitor down the street do it and not be raising holy hell. When the Shady employer gets caught he will fined to hell and back
biglsusport, saying you are informed and actually being informed are two different things. You can state that you understand the bill, but the things you say about it, says otherwise.
Let’s say it passes just as it is. Why would anyone ‘rush’ to sign up? the instant it was signed, they became legal and it became illegal to detain them or deport them, etc. pg 268 lines 27-31
(C) may not be detained for immigration purposes,
determined inadmissible or deportable, or removed 28
pending final adjudication of the alien’s application, 29
unless the alien is determined to be ineligible for Z 30
nonimmigrant status; and 31
If they rush to sign up, and if the fines and /or fees are assessed, they will be considerable lighter in the wallet. I believe the bill gives them 12 or 18 months to apply(clearly this will be extended because there are not enough gov workers to handle the paper work and they are already legal, so why rush?
I know the basic concepts that the Senators are trying to get out. the basic concepts of the senatorsl, the dimmicrats are trying to defeat the repubs and vice versa, they all want power. The dimms will get an additional 20-40 million votes. Simple.
Don’t just say that you know what is in the bill, you need to quote what page your examples are referring to, we already have enough experts on this site saying the bill does this or that, but they can’t quote the page number that it is on. So if you are fully versed, when you say what the bill will do. cite page and line number.
I only referred to the leftie business because you said go to some left sites. and most supporters of the bill are lefties. As I said, I don’t value lefties opinions and avoid them when I can.
BIGLSU, if a small business cannot stay in business without employing slave labor, they shouldn’t be in business. Don’t you see by allowing that mentalitiy to grow that you are excepting and perpetuation a third world enviornment? So should all businesses be able to hire under the table? If no, why not according to your logic. Also, if this bill passes, and I don’t think it will, all of those small businesses that you say could not survive without this cheap labor will have to start paying the same people this “prevailing wage”. How are they going to survive now? You see, it doesn’t make any sense, on one hand you say we need the cheap labor, on the other hand, you are supporting a minimum wage for them that is higher than a US citizen.
I’m not really even talking about the twelve million here right now, what I’m saying is that the number is going to get even more out of control. There is no time expiration on the registration part, so it just goes on.
And answer me this, who is going to process all of these people? The bill does not say. I think the reason it doesn’t say is that they no there is no current govt agency that is technically capable of doing the job. Background checks in 24 hrs. Hell, do you really think that Mexico, who is exporting all of their poor people here, are even going to respond to background checks on millions of its citizens? This bill is a fraud. It can’t possibly work. I think the whole idea here is to legalize everyone here and be done with it. Not a good idea.
Also, I don’t think you’re going to see a completely democratic congress for that long, most of the freshman reps were voted in by running to the right of their opponents on immigration. If they vote for this bill they will be gone next year. Reps are in for two years, not four.
There is a window of 1 year for applying, guys. But the Secretary of Homeland Security can extend that an additional 12 months at his discretion.
My apologies if I said 180 days before.
Section 601(f)(2), pages 266 and 267 –
–begin quote–
(f) Application Procedures.—
(1) In General.–The Secretary of Homeland Security shall
prescribe by notice in the Federal Register, in accordance
with the procedures described in section 610 of the [NAME
OF THIS ACT], the procedures for an alien in the United
States to apply for Z nonimmigrant status and the
evidence required to demonstrate eligibility for such
status.
(2) Initial Receipt of Applications.–The Secretary of
Homeland Security, or such other entities as are
authorized by the Secretary to accept applications under
the procedures established under this subsection, shall
accept applications from aliens for Z nonimmigrant status
for a period of one year starting the first day of the first
month beginning no more than 180 days after the date of
enactment of this section. If, during the one-year initial
period for the receipt of applications for Z nonimmigrant
status, the Secretary of Homeland Security determines
that additional time is required to register applicants for Z
nonimmigrant status, the Secretary may in his discretion
extend the period for accepting applications by up to 12
months.
–end quote–
BIGLSU wrote, “No guy building houses and working the system is going to seat by and his competitor down the street do it and not be raising holy hell. When the Shady employer gets caught he will fined to hell and back.”
I laughed so hard I almost cried when I read this. I live in San Diego and the entire home building industry here is just about 99.9 percent mexican, (very slight exaggeration). Evidently that sat by so long they had to leave town. My girlfriends a home inspector for new housing. Wait’ll I tell her that one!
First as to left sites I would encourage you to go there. You need to see the other sides concerns and what they are lobbying to get in the bill. Why? Because you might oppose it and try to make sure that doesnt get in the bill.
As to lefties just supporting what is in this bill that is nonsense. I find time after time after time when I explain what is in it then most people go I can live with that. Where I live is not exactly WEST Side New York either.
I am not to concerned about the illegals not paying those fines. I can see evidence of that already. I had a meeting with our Hispanic ministry that included immigration serves for our Diocese the other day. THe biggest concern they were having were loads of illegals that were paying around the 3000 dollar range already to unethical Lawyers to process their papers. Well of course this is the biggest waste of money because (1) the lawyers don’t know if anything will pass and (2) they don’t know who will be elligible or how.
As for for the time frame of set up. I will double check that. According to the inication that Catholic Charities was getting they were told to expect a much lesser time frame of sign up than 18 months and to prepare for that.
I will have to review my notes because we were also interacting with the Strive act on the House side and dealing with time limits that we think are going to be put on the bill over there
BikerKen said –
Evidently that sat by so long they had to leave town.
That’s our problem. We have been just “sitting by” thinking that someone else would fix this problem. Obviously, that isn’t going to happen. If the powers that be get their way, this problem will get even worse.
Bikerken
Well, Laugh if you wish but I am wondering how many are going to risk those fines. When the IRS calls it is no laughing matter and the goal is to get a system like that for workplace enforcement
Again the status quo is not acceptable. We have got to have something soon or the situation will become worse
BIGLSU, To correct myself, the signup period is 12 monts extendable to twelve months. I don’t believe it would ever actually end because if you do the math, twelve months, twelve million people, using their numbers now, that’s a million a month. Now how many people who you have to have at work to process a million people a month? Even if you had a thousand government vogels working on it, they would all have to do a thousand a month. See where I’m going here? They KNOW it’s not going to happen!
You are right that the status quo is not acceptable, but until we stop or significantly slow down the flow, the problem is going to get worse. Twice before we tried the same thing and both of those times it didn’t work. I can learn from mistakes.
AJ’s filter doesn’t like me. I keep posting the same info, a direct quote from the bill, which some people still haven’t read, and so the filter thinks I am spamming. Argh!!!!!!!!!!!!
LSU Sports Fan, go read the bill!!!!!!!!!!!!
Start on page 1, section 1(a). And then skip directly to 601(h), page 268.
I’m only asking you to read approximately 1 page total. You can handle that.
After you have done that, then we call talk.