Jun 02 2007
O’Reilly Goes Too Far
Bill O’Reilly has become another example of the far right, Immigration Hypochondriacs running into the sewer because they have lost their minds and the argument on the comprehensive immigration bill supported by large majorities since it includes both border protection and a guest worker program. Jerks like O’Reilly cannot tolerate the guest worker program with fines and back taxes due as punishment for working here without documentation. And this intolerance is seen in their immature and hateful nativist comments, like what just spewed out of O’Reilly’s big mouth:
Bill O’Reilly asserted that the proposed immigration reform bill is supported by “people who hate America, and they hate it because it’s run primarily by white, Christian men. Let me repeat that. America is run primarily by white, Christian men, and there is a segment of our population who hates that, despises that power structure.” He continued: “So they, under the guise of being compassionate, want to flood the country with foreign nationals, unlimited, unlimited, to change the complexion — pardon the pun — of America. Now, that’s hatred, too.”
As a white, now non-practicing Christian man I can only say this: Forget You O’Reilly. Clearly you are insecure about people of color being too close to you. Similarly to how the Nazis hated the Jews for poisoning the German culture, too many on the right spew this garbage about polluting our country out of fear of having to deal with people of other cultures. And they call us Un-American. What an ugly and pathetic comment.
Addendum: OK, I cleaned up the text and the HTML – since I was trying to spill this post out fast so my family could go to downtown Herndon and see the fireworks and left it pretty mangled. And after reading O’Reilly’s full text I find less offensive – but only barely. The fact is O’Reilly was trying to include the far left as supporters of the current Bill – which they are not. La Raza and the other far left groups do not like this bill because it eliminates the citizenship option for temporary workers and requires the background checks to eliminate the criminal element. So instead of being 100% irritated with O’Reilly I am 98% irritated because the guy simply used a lie to try and scare people from supporting the Bill. In a classic race baiting move reminiscent of the Dubai Ports fiasco O’Reilly must have been trying to reach our collective inner Klansman. Thankfully not very many people would fall for such a mob-mobilizing stunt. Sadly enough do. I wonder how many opponent of the guest worker program (which has limits on the numbers allowed, requires maximum stays, has that tamper-proof IDz with an expiration date to get jobs, and no option to apply for citizenship) will take O’Reilly to task for this?
Bikerken
As to the Congress you are looking at 4 years at the least. The Senate look bad for us this year. The House I feel you are wrong. The problems is that we lost a number of seats in Republican leaning and GOP held districts by opponents going to the “left” of the gop person hardright position. For instance in the border state of Arizona Two ot he leading anti comprehensive reform guys lost to a pro comp person. Those being Hayworth and Randy Graf. It should also be noted that also in that boder state Republican Rep Flake who has a much more liberal bill in the House(the Strive act) got relected with 70 percent of the vote. THese elections as well as the Cannon/Jacobs Republican Primary race in Utah should be telling us how this issue fits with the voters when immigration is the number one issue. However they are ignored. Further besides the Indiana seats and the perhaps the Iowa seat we lost the seats we lost were in areas up North where the person did not run right of their GOP opponent on immigration. What we saw in the last election was in part a natural realignment and correction that was long overdue. So I would not expect the GOP to get these seats back especially wit the war in play. We can perhaps get some back but not nearly enough next election cycle
As to small business paying slave labor this is rarely what I am finding. Most employers are paying well above the minimum wage. The labor shortage is real and that is playing out even among the illegal workforce where employers are having to pay a competive wage among that class of worker . The main problems as to employers and illegals from a human rights standpoint is the lack of safety standards especially in the NEw ORleans area in my state where God knows what these aliens are being exposed too chemical wise.
As to the process of how these people are going to be checked out that system will have to be up and running. For most we shall be doing an American background check using our records. That should not be a problem. When I worked for the DA’s office it was not hard to get a pretty good background on the guy within 24 hours. Note I am not talking about Guest worker and those outside the country. the guest worker part is what has to have some major work done to it
What must be remembered that much of this and especially the specific details are going to aired out in the House committees. THe House is where much of the nitty gritty of this will be done as to details. The goal right now is to get a bill out of the Senate that has (1) Guest Worker and2) the Enforcement measures and 3) the outline of what we want. There is going o be 435 people over at the House that will want their say.
That is one reason why I am wondering why there is such action to kill this bill at all cost in the Senate when we havent even interacted with the House bill yet. At the end of the day this has to go to Conference to see if the difference and concerns can be even worked out. All this is very stage one
AJ, are you searching through the bill? How’s it going? Any luck with those questions?
Big LSU Sports Fan said –
That is one reason why I am wondering why there is such action to kill this bill at all cost in the Senate when we havent even interacted with the House bill yet. At the end of the day this has to go to Conference to see if the difference and concerns can be even worked out. All this is very stage one
When do you propose we make our voices heard?
Should we wait until the last possible moment?
Big LSU Sports Fan,
One simple “Yes or No” question for you –
Do you honestly believe, deep down in your heart, that after we give away all the milk for free, the politicians will come back later and buy the cow?
Apache
We are very far from the last possible moment. It seems mostly that the agenda is stop the process now and not engage and make the bill better. For instance it iarare that I am seeing on blogs and internet sites and the radio calls to make the biil better or to address concerns but on the contrary to kill it all all cost because as we all know the they will never enforce the thing anyway.
In affect there are those that are really to to try and make it better and those that just wnat it dead and will not be happy with anything other than the version of the House bill we had last year.
That is where the frustration is coming from people like me and perhaps AJ. In the end what is characterized as “Amnesty” to any illegals is a absolute deal breaker to some. The House bill of last year is not on the table and to make that the “bill” or soemthing like it will not get passed.
At some point the some political elements on the right are going to have to make a choice. That is fight for tough enforcement measures or just pray a more liberal bill doesnt get passed and oppose both bills in the House and Senate.. That is the good thing about reading the lefty immigration sites. They seem to think they could get a bill past that is far more liberal. That is the reason why strong enforcement must be battled for now.
But if you people just want to kill it then those peoples concerns and thus legislative horse trading with them will not happen. Why would it?
Expalin you cow example, I am not sure what you mean by it
By the way I cant read the part you are referencing till tomorrow morning. I am on dial up where I am at right now and my pdf keeps freezing upo every time I access it
If you read page 1, Section 1(a), of the proposed draft legislation, you will find this little gem,
–begin quote–
(a) With the exception of the probationary benefits conferred by
Section 601(h), the provisions …”
Notice where it says, “With the exception of the probationary benefits conferred by Section 601(h),”
I will attempt to post this, and see if it will make it through AJ’s filters. If it does, I will attempt to post Section 601(h) for you.
my last post, section 6 0 1 ( h ), didn’t make it through the spam filter.
I guess you are going to have to read it for yourself after you download the pdf.
Once you read it, and you realize how all of the triggers are completely bypassed (which includes border security – the one I personally care about), then my “giving away the milk for free” analogy will make a lot more sense.
See you in the morning. Have a good night.
Big LSU sports fan said –
We are very far from the last possible moment. It seems mostly that the agenda is stop the process now and not engage and make the bill better.
I suppose it could seem that way. But in my letters to my Senators I detailed precisely which portions of the bill I had a problem with. I told them precisely what I wanted changed. I want the triggers to mean something! Right now, they are empty rhetoric. They are promises that the Senators will come back later and buy the cow after we give them all of the milk for free.
But yea, if you were to form an opinion based solely upon what you read on line, you could get the wrong impression. I’ll concede that point.
To DaleInAtlanta,
I have been thoroughly enjoying your posts and the posts of some select others. I approach this issue differently than you. To me, this involves the security of the Country I love. This is serious business. There is no room for emotions or any sort of misstep.
You opted early on to label yourself as a “racist”. Personally, I suspect that you did that as a debate tactic to put the whole racism thing behind you so that you could get on with discussing the merits of the bill. Based upon everything that you have confided about yourself, I don’t see how you could possibly be a racist. I may be wrong, but I doubt it.
I think that was a flawed tactic. Never say something that is not true. You can’t recover from that. You lose no matter what. I will not call myself a racist, simply because I am not one. I won’t resort to a tactic that requires that I lie. I just won’t do it. Now I am only human. So I may make errors from time to time. That is to be expected. But if I stick to “honesty first” as a policy, and I openly admit whenever I make a mistake, then most people will forgive me. And, if people who read this blog stick with it, they will realize that I strive for honesty above all else. And that helps my position when I debate.
Anywho, this is my advice, should you give a crap. –
1. Always be 100% honest
2. Do your best to remain detached and unemotional (it is hard – I know)
3. Argue your points based solely upon fact and solid, verifiable anecdotal evidence that people can readily identify with
4. When the facts are on your side – ARGUE THE FACTS
5. If your opponent says something that is easily proven incorrect, prove it, and then shut up.
This bill is its own worst enemy. I don’t have to do anything but quote directly from the bill.
When they call me names, I take ENJOYMENT in it. They are doing that because they are LOSING the debate on its merits. That means I am winning the debate!! It is a GOOD thing when they resort to name calling. Sit back, smile, and enjoy it. They are LOSING the debate when they resort to that. Anyone who reads the blog will instantly pick up on that.
And if your opponent makes the fatal mistake of “asking” for a question, give it to him. Hammer him/her. Drive it all the way home. 😉
I only offer this advice because you seem like the type of person that I would like to buy a beer, if given the chance. I risk a lot in offering this free advice. Some people would be offended by it. I pray you don’t take offense. I don’t mean to offend.
Dale in Hotlanta,
My family is having a family reunion this summer. I haven’t worked out whether or not I can go. I may fly my Mom and Sister out here instead. But if I do go back home to Virginia, can I swing through Hotlanta and buy you a beer or two?
How many days has it been since I offered to compromise on this bill? I am losing track. Has it been4 days or 5 days?
Still no takers.
I guess if you are a proponent of this bill, it is “your way or the highway”. It appears that you just want to ram this sh*t sandwich down our throats and insist that we say, “Ummm… That’s tasty!”
Apache:
I don’t think that is true at all, but telling anyone who supports comprehensive immigration reform that they are traitors or whatever or don’t respect the law is not fair either. I do not expect people to just accept anything.
I had that problem with the PDF as well. I was supposed to get broadband but it did not work out here in the sticks and now I am having trouble with watching videos or anything like that. People in Baghdad have highspeed internet and here I am with dial up. Disgusting.
I think lsusportsfan has a point. Make it better or kill it, but eventually we will have to do deal with this.
I know that there are people in the border states who feel overwhelmed by the people they see coming into their communities. However, anytime we start talking about the Christian White Male…we are just making it that much more difficult to deal with this situation. Talk about code words for the demagogues.
I also know that people in the border states think a lot of folks up north don’t have a clue as to what they are dealing with. However, it was not the people up north who turned California into a virtual sanctuary for illegals, the good people of California who did that. And it was not the people up north who just sort of ignored the fact that Mexicans could walk in and out of cities like El Paso long before the southwest was even part of the union.
Today the courts make it impossible for communities to throw kids out of school and people out of hospitals but I have seen third generation family farms zoned out of existence, businesses taxed out of existence by the state governments and people forced to relocate by city ordinance… and Governors have a great deal of authority in their states. For years the southern states were able to use states rights to limit the rights of black Americans to vote.
So this is not just about a lax federal policy or about uncaring people in the north. And that is what people are ignoring, if there really was a great desire to get rid of these people, they would have been gone a long time ago.
I would prefer that the right spent its energies trying to find ways to certify those triggers so that they can not be bypassed rather than just trying to kill the whole thing. And arguing over whether people back back taxes or a penalty is not something important enough to justify killing a bill.
As for people flooding in, I could make the same argument that if you are not going to do anything but build a wall…half of Mexico will be up here before you can get it completed. Needless to say I can not prove that, but then people can not prove half of what they are saying in this debate anyway. They cherry pick something out of the Senate bill and use it as an excuse to destroy the whole thing oblivious to the fact that we have to have a house bill, it has to go to conference and what comes out of there will not be like what we are seeing now anyway.
So no, I do not think that people should just accept anything, but a viable alternative that can get gain bipartisan support now would be better than just hoping that President Hillary Clinton with a super majority in the House and Senate does not come up with a plan of her own.
And btw, it should be remembered that there are a lot of people who are not going to be able to download a bill on a computer so making that a priority in even discussing the plan is not fair.
Not everyone has that technology or even knows how to use it.
I googled the bill and found several sites. I went to view as html when my pdf did not work and then I went to sites like truth laid bare and read what they had.
And that right there is more than a lot of people depending on talk radio for their information would do.
But it is not fair to say that people who are too poor to own a computer or who are older and not comfortable with that technology or who are in a place or situation where they don’t have access to certain technology should virtually give up their right to voice an opinion on the subject.
Maybe the polsters should make that a requirement. Have you read the bill? No…next. I doubt if they could enough people to do a survey.
Terrye,
You are study in contradictions. You not only ask, you demand, those who have read the bill to give up their right to voice their opinion on the subject.
You commented yesterday that if there is something in the bill that needs fixing, then fix it. How do you know if there is anything to fix if we blindly accept what we are being spoon fed? There was a reason Kennedy and McCain wanted this bill fast tracked and you are seeing it. Things need fixing.
Sue:
I never demanded anyone give up a right to do anything.
My brother opposes this legislation on basic principles. He has not read the bill, if you polled him he would say he opposed the bill and then the same people who say anyone who has not read the bill do not know what they were talking about would use that poll and the answers people like my brother gave to support their contention the bill is flawed. That is a contradiction in and of itself.
I also supported the Iraq troop funding bill that finally went to the president but I did not download hundreds of pages of legislation and read it so that I could support the measure.
Senator Kyl supports this legislation, he thinks the triggers are sufficient…other people look at that same bill and see something different. I do not feel comfortable calling a man like Kyl a liar and I think that to some extent we are arguing about what the definition of is “is”, but if people need to change that language in order to feel more comfortable with it I would rather see that happen than see the whole thing killed.
However, the way a bill is made is that each chamber has a bill and then it goes to conference to be reconciled and then to the president…which means the whole thing is a work in progress at this point.
So I am not saying that people should not read the damn bill or voice their opnions about it, but how many people are actually going to read hundreds of pages of legislation for each and every bill? People have jobs and families and responsibilities and it is not realistic to think they will sit down and read something the size of a NYC phonebook. So don’t tell people who have not downloaded the bill on a computer and read however many hundreds of pages of text there is that they have no right to an opinion either.
I haven’t told anyone to do anything. You are the one who is demanding those who oppose it just shut up and accept it.
The bill came out of conference one day and Kennedy and McCain wanted a vote immediately. Without anyone having time to read and ingest what was in the bill. If it had happened that way, the things you say can be fixed would not have surfaced until after a vote. Is that the way we want Congress to operate?
AJ, twice I commented that this bill is nothing more then the 80S bill that Pres Reagan pushed for. The bottom line is if you don’t fix the borders so we won’t have to go through the same BS every couple of decades and make sure that the people you are giving ( amnesty) because that is really what this bill is, are assmilated into american way of life then whether you are far right or just a moderate, this bill is just BS and all your name calling is just mute!