Jun 04 2007
The Immigration Insanity
Why would anyone who has supported this President through all the tough times he has endured trying to protect this country and destroy those who attacked us on 9-11 call for his impeachment over policy differences?
It has pitted some of Mr. Bush’s most stalwart Congressional and grass-roots backers against him, inciting a vitriol that has at times exceeded anything seen yet between Mr. Bush and his supporters, who have generally stood with him through the toughest patches of his presidency. Those supporters now view him as pursuing amnesty for foreign lawbreakers when he should be focusing on border security.
Postings on conservative Web sites this week have gone so far as to call for Mr. Bush’s impeachment, and usually friendly radio hosts, commentators and Congressional allies are warning that he stands to lose supporters — a potentially damaging development, they say, when he needs all the backing he can get on other vital matters like the war in Iraq.
“I think President Bush hurts himself every time he says it is not amnesty,†said Senator Tom Coburn, Republican of Oklahoma, referring to the bill’s legalization process for immigrants. “We are not all that stupid.â€
Impeachment, eh? Look, in a democracy sometime you LOSE. What is stupid is people saying fines and back taxes are the same thing amnesty. They are penalties. They are just not the penalties these people dream about. What they want is people booted out of the country. The Immigration Hypochondriacs have a form of BDS so bad they have succumbed to making up theories based on wild speculation and assuming everything will be a disaster no matter what Congress passes.
Sorry, but my patience with those who would join Dennis Kucinich in calling for Bush’s impeachment because they are losing a political battle is over. When these same hot heads went off on Harriet Miers because they did not know her positions, and then filled them in with all sorts of scary fantasies they made up in their heads, we all joined back together again to support Bush in the war and on other subjects.
When these same people went off again on the Dubai Ports deal and cost us the cargo container inspection devices Dubai Ports World and the UAE was willing to put in place in all their port handling facilities which feed US ports (which is THE WAY to detect WMDs coming into this country), we cons once again pulled back together. Even though many of us thought the far right had lost their minds.
So it is clear these people will continue to use poor, emotion-driven judgement to put the conservative movement and our country at risk whenever they get their backs up. It is not so much they have views. It is they pillory people and use character assassination and rumor to try and smear the opposition. They don’t have arguments. Their inability to work with others is on full display over the Guest Worker Program element of the Bill. They oppose a Guest Worker Program of any form. Always have. We join in the border component and split on the worker component.
But the immigration hypochondriacs cannot live sane with compromise. So they are going ballistic and using terms like ‘stupid’ (and ‘RINO’ and ‘quisling’ and ‘traitor’) while running around like drama-queen Laura Ingraham acting all hurt that Bush (and others) have turned on them! The drama-queen stuff is really rich. After years of complaining about the immigration issue we are on the cusp of getting a lot of good reforms in place and making a huge difference. But the far right now begs for more of the same in a panic over Guest Workers (already here!).
It just like Bush’s work on prescription drugs for Medicare/Medicaid and No Child Left Behind being attacked when proposed, yet the solutions produce great results. Not perfect results. Great results. Bush has an amazing ability to pull together solutions that really do something. A rare talent that DC does not see very often. And the answer from those on the right is impeachment?
I had hoped the right would lose this debate with dignity (I knew they could not win anything in this, they gave that up when they lost in 2006). After a while I realized they were incapable of accepting the democratic process at work and were going over the edge – but I assumed their was a limit. I assumed they would not go so far as to undermine our democracy because they were losing this issue under democracy. When you call for impeachment in response to a democratic loss (like the whacked out libs have been doing since Al Gore flamed out in FL), that means you have given up on democracy. There is no honor it taking democracy down with your little pet issue. There is no honor is getting so worked up you cannot rejoin the process at the end of the day and keep America alive by participating in its most wonderful aspect – losiing with grace and joining arms to battle the next issue. The far right seems to have forgotten, it means something to “lose like an American” also, at least in the political domain.
Update: I wanted to elevate something I said in the comment section of this post. I do not believe everyone who is against the Guest Worker program is insane enough to call for the impeachment of Bush, but I do think these folks are aligned now with those who do want to impeach Bush. And I expect the calls from the GOP for impeachment will grow due to this issue. Folks will want to assess whether this entire fiasco and temper tantrum on the right has gone far enough, or even too far (like some of us think now).
Some examples of those calling for impeachment of Bush from the right over immigration are here, here, here [“Message To The Left: I’m not saying you should impeach him, I’m just sayin’, you know, go with your hearts.”], here [The planned NAU has even some long-time Republicans using the words “Bush” and “traitor” in the same sentence with the word “impeach.” ] and here . Seems to me this is not as uncommon as some would think. It will grow in size when the Senate passes the bill.
Update: One of the poster children for the Immigration Hypochondriacs is the blow-hard Lou Dobbs on CNN. He has become the Keith Olberman on the immigration issue. He epitomizes how bad things can get. Just check out this strange rationale for not dealing with the 12-20 million illegals here now:
And then there is the Southern Poverty Law Center, which has gone from monitoring hate groups to monitoring Dobb’s show. The SPLC placed an ad in newspapers urging CNN to acknowledge that Dobbs “has been spreading false information about the prevalence of leprosy and its supposed links to undocumented immigrants.â€
At issue is the claim by CNN reporter Christine Romans that “in the past three years, America has had more than 7,000 cases of leprosy.†It turns out this is the figure for the past 30 years, not three years. The correction came to light during a profile of Dobbs on “60 Minutes.†Even after CBS correspondent Lesley Stahl pointed out the actual number, Dobbs told her that he stands “100 percent behind†the claim. He also told Stahl: “If we reported it, it’s a fact.†But it’s not a fact. And, in a segment after the “60 Minutes†interview, an unrepentant Romans repeated the bogus figure. So, there.
Going for the actual ‘leper’ claims – now that is low. The ‘unclean’ in vivid the vivid example of a disease which kills living flesh. Could Dobbs have gone any lower? 7,000 divided by 30 = 233 cases per year. Not an epidemic by a long shot. Out of 12 million (to give Dobbs is best case number) those 7,000 are .06%. Which means 99.94% of immigrants here illegally not carrying lepersy – assuming all cases are in the illegal immigration community. This is truly an ugly attempt to extrapolate the sad sickness of a few into some kind of rampant infection in an entire population.
–begin quote–
WASHINGTON — The Bush administration insisted on a little-noticed change in the bipartisan Senate immigration bill that would enable 12 million undocumented residents to avoid paying back taxes or associated fines to the Internal Revenue Service, officials said.
An independent analyst estimated the decision could cost the IRS tens of billions of dollars.
A provision requiring payment of back taxes had been in the initial version of a bill proposed by Senator Edward M. Kennedy, the Massachusetts Democrat. But the administration called for the provision to be removed due to concern that it would be too difficult to figure out which illegal immigrants owed back taxes.
–end quote–
source for the above –
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2007/05/19/bush_removes_provision_requiring_back_taxes_from_illegal_immigrants/
LOL!
Oh, now you believe the media? I see ten times the number of stories which clearly say the back taxes are in.
Did I mention how the far right runs on exaggerations and hysteria enough times today????
AJ, since you could find TEN times the number of stories saying the back taxes are in, perhaps you would not mind providing them and the dates of the articles?
My point was that “back taxes” is not in the current immigration draft. I do not know if it will be in an amended form of this bill. Perhaps it will. Perhaps it will not. I do not know what will happen in the future. I don’t have a crystal ball.
I do know that McCain offered an amendment which put it back into the bill. I believe that amendment was passed.
And I do know that there are more amendments which deal with “back taxes”. I do not know what is in those amendments. And I do know if they will pass or not. Nor do I know what overall impact those proposed amendments would have on “back taxes” should they pass.
But “back taxes” isn’t that a big of a deal to me. Like I have said repeatedly, my major concern is National security. And this bill falls way short on National security.
Time to hit the phone.
Apache
I believe Dale got it right. I can’t find any of the amendment texts anywhere but I believe McCaine got one passed to put them back in just as Dale said.
R05,
Learn to use google. Yes, I do mind. Educate thyself. I like my opponents ignorant of the facts. Makes them easier to beat. Welcome to politics. You folks wanted the battle – you got it. Fend for yourselves
MerlinOS2 said –
I believe Dale got it right. I can’t find any of the amendment texts anywhere but I believe McCaine got one passed to put them back in just as Dale said.
Yes, I agree. I *believe* McCain got an amendment passed, just like Dale said. But I do not know for sure, and I want to make sure that everyone understands that. I *believe* McCain got it put back in. But I have no proof of that.
I am however, 100% sure that it is not in the proposed draft. The draft was released on the 18th (I think), and AJ has been saying the whole time that they were going to pay “back taxes” despite the fact that it is not in the proposed draft.
But I really don’t want to get side tracked on the whole “back taxes” issue. For some it may be a critical issue. For some it may be a show stopper. But it simply is not critical to me. I have 6 other changes that I would like to see in the bill and I want to focus my time and effort on those.
My main priority is National security. The border needs to be secured NOW. As in yesterday. As in 5 years ago.
My secondary priority is that I don’t want to EVER have to do this again. Which pretty much explains priority number one. 😉
My third priority is that NO ONE who is suspected of using someone else’s SSN get anything other than a long jail term (after criminal prosecution proceedings, obviously). And they shouldn’t get ANYTHING until after their case is tried. Notta. Zip. Zilch.
My fourth priority is making the triggers mean something.
My fifth priority is to make sure that the bureaucracy to handle this whole mess is in place (fully trained, ready, and up and running) PRIOR to opening the flood gates. And that the bureaucracy is big enough to actually handle the claims. It is INSANITY to open the flood gates first, and then attempt to hire and train personnel to handle it. ONLY A POLITICIAN COULD COME UP WITH AN IDEA THAT STUPID!! (argh…. I can’t believe I am advocating more bureaucracy. A small government advocate demanding a larger bureaucracy. You know things are really bad when I have to abandon a core belief. I resent being put into a position where I must compromise a core belief.)
My sixth priority is to get everyone, both citizens and illegals, to be on the same side when it comes to accomplishing the trigger requirements. Once illegals become legal, they will argue like hell about securing our borders. We could fix that by not allowing the path to citizenship right away. Make them “legal provisional residents” until every single trigger has been fully met. After all triggers have been fully met, make them “legal permanent residents” and then open up the path to citizenship.
As to AJ’s wonderment as to how those who have stood by Bush in his
great WOT/ Iraq War debacles can now call for his impeachment.
Country Club cheap labor-loving Republicanism doesn’t make for a
sturdy war machine as it predictably sponsors a beatable
invasion while conducting unwinnable invasions.
Cheap labor Republicans? My behind. If people don’t pass a bill like this, or do something other than bitch and moan, there will be more illegals coming in not less. I love this… the AFL-CIO and the hardliners unite. What a hoot. What is next? LaRaza and the John Birchers?
As to the back taxes, there has been some back and forth on that because it is the House that deals with tax issues. Some people prefer penalties because of the difficulties with figuring back taxes, but if the taxes stay in then the House has to decide how it is done and there is some debate about that.
I myself think that it is kind of moot because if the people ragging on AJ about this have their way nobody will be paying any back taxes anyway and apparently that is ok fine with them so what the hell do they care?
Calls to impeach Bush for a bill the Senate has brought tells us just how stupid some of these people are. If this was such a big deal to so many people for so long, why is it the two top contenders for the 2000 GOP nomination both support comprehensive reform? Where were the fit throwing cry babies then?
They want Pat Buchanan, but know he can not win and so they force themselves to back someone who can and then when he fails to jump when they say how high, they want his hide. After all, who does the man think he is? The President of the United States or something? Doesn’t he know that he is supposed to abandon his principles and do their bidding?
Bush stood with his base during the whole Schiavo business, in spite of the fact that it cost him with the general public. He stood with his base on embryonic stem cell research in spite of the fact that it cost him. And if he was only interested in making people like him, he would have gotten out of Iraq by now.
But I am getting tired of the cry babies. I remember when Katrina hit and Malkin went just as far off the deep end as Spike Lee did.
Then there was the whole thing with Miers. How stupid was that? The conservatives are saying Bush has the right to nominate whoever he wants, until he nominates someone they don’t know and then the frothing at the mouth ensues.
And then the Dubai Ports deal in which a company that has one of the best reputations on the planet gets labelled as terrorists and righties are acting like Bush is trying to kill us all….blah blah blah. When that was over, those people looked absolutely ridiculous. Glenn Reynolds said the Bushies should have seen it coming, and I thought, why would anyone expect something that stupid to happen?
It is like everytime you turn around these people are having a cow about something. It is just one fit after another. I left the left because of the ideologically driven hysteria that seemed to pass for political discourse and here I am listening to stuff from the right that sounds every bit as crazy as anything Rosie O’Donnel or Cindy Sheehan or their fellow loons could ever come up with.
thecentercannothold
you seem to be worried that the Iraq war will be won, before the Dimmicrats can surrender…. they better hurry up and hold their surrender vote…….