Jun 04 2007
58+% Are Not Against Immigration Bill
Well, here is a bizarre poll from USA Today/Gallup:
As the Senate prepares to vote on a landmark immigration bill, a USA TODAY/Gallup Poll finds that Americans who have an opinion about it are overwhelmingly opposed to the deal.
By nearly 3-1, those who have a view say they’re against the compromise supported by Senate Democratic leaders and President Bush. However, 58% of those surveyed say they don’t know enough about the legislation to favor or oppose it.
USA Today tries really hard to spin this as meaning the immigration bill is in trouble, but that is more grasping for hope than reality it seems. Let’s have some fun with basic math. Of the 42% who did not fall into the “who knows any more” 58%, the story says they run 3-1 against the bill. OK, that means roughly 31% are against the Bill (75% of 42). That means 58+10 or 68% are for the bill or not sure. So 31-68 if you are looking for people who clearly oppose the Bill being passed. Now I understand why the bill’s proponents are feeling confident of passage. The opposition has not grown, just the ‘no opinion’. Will they trend into the opposition camp or fall back into the support camp where they existed for the last few years? We shall see.
Oh as to the minuteman scam
http://www.svherald.com/articles/2007/05/30/news/doc465d0fc256c9f078099071.txt
This is will sad. A group of conservatives tried like heck to expose this last year. Way before people were putting morgages on their houses and old people were sending their retirement to build a fence. We were all called names then.
I thought though that this part was interesting
“May 15, 2006: MCDC Executive Director Al Garza says the Minutemen are going ahead with their fence-building plan, and that a ranch in Cochise County has been chosen as the site for the first fence.
• May 22, 2006: Jack Ladd, owner of the ranch where the fence is to be built, tells the Herald/Review he is not interested in the Israeli-style barrier. Instead, he wants the Minutemen to build a reinforced five-strand range fence that will protect his cattle and stop drive-throughs on his property”.
LOL, see even people that allowed the Simcox people on their land don’t want no huge Israeli style fence on their land
Why? Who knows? Maybe he doesnt want to look at it every day.
When I was investigating the Minutemen and mostly Diener and Declaration alliance I ran into these landowner complaints all the time
Big LSU said –
By the way you as of your own assertion have no clue what has been built etc. So forgive me if I don’t indulge your hypo of a few being 3 miles.
Hugh Hewitt interviewed Michael Chertoff. Hugh pressed Mr. Chertoff for two solid minutes trying to get a straight answer on how many new miles of border fence have been built. Mr. Chertoff refused to provide a straight answer. He finally admitted that “very few” (his own words) new miles have been built.
http://www.townhall.com/TalkRadio/Show.aspx?RadioShowID=5&ContentGuid=83a08f62-ca8e-4405-a7e2-23a2d913bebb
I thought I was being rather generous when I interpreted “very few” as possibly equaling 10 miles.
Why don’t you tell me what “very few” equals?????
And don’t blame me if I don’t know the exact answer. Blame Mr. Chertoff and his evasiveness.
In the Army, we had an expression. “The maximum effective range of an excuse is ZERO meters!”
If the Government (read as Government and not President Bush) wanted to get the job done, they would do whatever it takes to get the job done. Offer the ranchers TRIPLE the appraised value and if they don’t accept that, take it under Kelo and pay them TRIPLE the appraised value.
I don’t care HOW they get the job done. I only care that they get the job done. I am SICK AND F*CKING TIRED of excuses. And I am not the only one.
And if you think that the public is going to accept 30 more years of excuses, you are out of your frickin mind.
I found this AT the White House site
”
The Administration has expanded the Border Patrol from approximately 9,000 agents in 2001 to more than 13,000 agents today – and by the end of 2008, there will be a total of more than 18,000 agents, doubling the size of the Border Patrol since the President took office.
Today, there are in place 78 miles of permanent vehicle barrier and 86 miles of primary fencing, part of 370 miles of fencing planned by the end of 2008. ”
So it appears that the goal is 370 miles of actual Fence is planned to be done by the ned of 2008
“If the Government (read as Government and not President Bush) wanted to get the job done, they would do whatever it takes to get the job done. Offer the ranchers TRIPLE the appraised value and if they don’t accept that, take it under Kelo and pay them TRIPLE the appraised value.”
Wouldnt that blow the Fence budget pretty quick and we would have less fencing for the physical year. I can’t even imagine if some of these land owners were Republicans. I can hear the the hearing now and the headlines. WHY IS THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION PAYING REPUBLICAN LANDOWNER TOO MUCH FOR LAND lol.
Perhaps people should vote for MR Bllomberg for PResident. HE could pay for it on his credit card and have the Govt pay him back later
“And if you think that the public is going to accept 30 more years of excuses, you are out of your frickin mind.”
Lets not jump 30 years. We are just trying to get a bill through that will allow us to among other things increase the Border Patrol to the 28000 area, provide wrokplace enforcement, a id, massive more fines etc.
Of course if a bill doesnt happen that will not either. But I am sure we will blame the Government for that insteadd of us WE THE PEOPLE that decided we could not sit down and compromise with each other and come to a solution
From those who were front line defenders:
http://www.nafbpo.org/nafbrp_noamnesty.html
Odd how there are those who tell us that this is what the American people want. Well, I guess Border Patrol agents are not Americans, not to the Kumbaya crowd.
And I want one of you, just one, to tell me that you have a better grasp on the immigration debate that those who dedicated their lives to protecting American citizens from the criminals that sneak across our borders. Just one.
Big LSU said –
Lets not jump 30 years. We are just trying to get a bill through that will allow us to among other things increase the Border Patrol to the 28000 area, provide wrokplace enforcement, a id, massive more fines etc.
Then you should have no problem agreeing to remove the exception clause found in the very first sentence of the bill. Correct?
If you what you wrote above is true, you shouldn’t have a problem agreeing to that.
Well, well, well…
Congressinal Budget Office (I guess they’re rightist “hypochondriacs!) says the new Immigration bill will FAIL, and Fail spectacularily CBO says Immigration Bill will Fail
Those damn Rightwing CBO’ers….
Color me shocked!
Okay, so, since everyone is going to Complain, that all I do is complain, with no solution; I have a solution:
all those smart Senators and Congressmen, who put this bill together, take this CBO study, get back into committee, and come up with the Amendments/bill language necessary, to get that reduction down 95%!
Whatever the money, whatever the resources; get on it, get it into the bill, then we can all be happy, and move on…
Dale in Hotlanta said –
Whatever the money, whatever the resources; get on it, get it into the bill, then we can all be happy, and move on.
Hear!! Hear!! I second that!!
But they also have to remove the exception clause found in the first sentence. No reward for ANYONE until AFTER all of the triggers have been met.
And they have to add an amendment that says something to the effect, “Whoever is SUSPECTED of using another person’s SSN gets nothing until a full investigation and trial, AND all governmental agencies (to include the IRS) will cooperate on SSN fraud. Mandate that the IRS turn over instances where an SSN is suspected of being fraudulent”.
Then, I could probably be persuaded to agree to the bill.
Hey, what happened to Big LSU????
All I did was ask a simple question.
Now we learn that the CBO is just a bunch of right-wing, immigration hypochrondiacs who hate any reform that is going to work. Who knew that us out of control, radical far right racists had infiltranted the CBO.
I don’t know how many times we have to tell you Kumbaya singers that we have a solution:
END SOCIAL SERVICES TO ILLEGALS
PROSECUTE EMPLOYERS TO THE FULL EXTENT OF THE LAW (Simpson-Mazzoli bill gives the fines)
PROSECUTE THOSE WHO STEAL SOMEONE’S IDENTITY TO THE FULL EXTENT OF THE LAW
APPLY THE 14TH AMENDMENT IN THE TRUE SINCE OF THE WORD (no anchor babies)
No jobs, no welfare, no citizenship for spitting a baby out as soon as you cross into Montana or Texas, no reason to come.
biglsusportsfan
I know you’re not gonna believe this, but there is no border security guaranteed in the bill, all subject to appropriations.
and they only call for hiring 14000 agents thru the year 2012, so they’re not gonna be setting any records.
biglsu, you said:
The Administration has expanded the Border Patrol from approximately 9,000 agents in 2001 to more than 13,000 agents today – and by the end of 2008, there will be a total of more than 18,000 agents, doubling the size of the Border Patrol since the President took office.
Today, there are in place 78 miles of permanent vehicle barrier and 86 miles of primary fencing,
quit blowing smoke. Here are the numbers from the bill itself:
pg 4 line 30 thru line 4 on pg 5
5/18/2007 4
AGENTS. 30
`(a) Annual Increases- The Secretary of Homeland Security 31
shall, subject to the availability of appropriations for such 32
purpose, increase the number of positions for full-time active- 33
duty border patrol agents within the Department of Homeland 34
Security (above the number of such positions for which funds 35
were appropriated for the preceding fiscal year), by not less 36
than— 37
`(1) 2,000 in fiscal year 2007; 38
`(2) 2,400 in fiscal year 2008; 39
DRAFT – FOR DISCUSSION PURPOSES ONLY
May 18, 2007 11:58 p.m.
`(3) 2,400 in fiscal year 2009; 1
`(4) 2,400 in fiscal year 2010; 2
`(5) 2,400 in fiscal year 2011; and 3
‘(6) 2,400 in fiscal year 2012. 4
If there are 9000 now and they’re adding 2000 this year and 2400 in ’08 how do they get to your 18000 number?
funny how the devil is in the details, isn’t it.
their number on miles of fencing is incorrect also, it’s less than75.
FE, also what is not taken into consideration is the BP attrition rate. According to the Border Patrol Union, requests for retirement is at an all time high and, unlike our military, the BP is not currently reaching it’s recruitment goals. If retirement rates are at only 5%, that means that we lose 450 BP a year. Deduct that from the numbers you listed which reduces the number of BP agents added each year.
FE said –
If there are 9000 now and they’re adding 2000 this year and 2400 in ‘08 how do they get to your 18000 number?
9,000 + 2,000 + 2,400 equals 18,000
Is that what they mean by fuzzy math?
Retire05 said –
According to the Border Patrol Union, requests for retirement is at an all time high and, unlike our military, the BP is not currently reaching it’s recruitment goals.
Hmmm….. I wonder if this would have anything to do with prosecuting agents when they shoot a major league drug runner in the butt because they are afraid for their lives?
Do you think the two might possibly be connected?? Nah….
BIGLSU, you’re starting to get funny! You remind me of Baghdad Bob! Remember him, he was the Iraqi news guy who was saying that there were no American forces in Baghdad when the tanks rolled right behind him?!? That was just hilarious. Just the fact that you would believe on it’s face everyting that the feg govt says proves how easy it is to fool you! What, it must be true because the gubmint say so? You swallow it up like a largemouth bass on a fat worm. You must admit that your faith in the govt to do exactly what they say even after they have not done that in 40 years is not shared by the majority, not even close. I think this bill has spurred a lot of people to action, simply because of the baldface arrogant lying associated with it. I think America has had about enough of being lied to on this subject and watching the govt stand around with their thumbs up their butts like a three year old and complain that it’s just to hard to enforce the law. We are going to drag these bums sorry asses out to the woodshed and stop them from selling out our country. Even if the bill is passed by a bunch of traitorous morons with their fingers in their ears, the fight won’t be over, it will just be beginning.
I’m beggining to sense a trend here and I think I’m seeing who has what dog in this fight. I think that a lot of independant centrist supporters of this bill are thinking that this is going to break up the republican party and that will send people over to the independent middle and maybe even some to the left. But overall they see it as a real gain for the independant middle. While I think a lot of republican are enraged at bush right now, I also believe that they will immediately get behind any real republican who is tough against this bill. Trust me, republicans who are mad as hell about this bill are not going more over to the left though it might seem that way. That is exactly the opposite of the direction they are heading.
Big LSU said –
But I am sure we will blame the Government for that insteadd of us WE THE PEOPLE that decided we could not sit down and compromise with each other and come to a solution
We are offering up compromises. Are you no longer interested? Or were you ever really interested in it in the first place?
Are any of the compromises listed above unacceptable to you? If so, why? And if so, what is your counter compromise?
Here is something that baffles the crapola out of me.
The overwhelming majority of Americans are in favor of a guest worker program.
AND
The overwhelming majority of Americans are strongly opposed to amnesty, or anything that comes close to amnesty.
So what do these rocket scientist politicians do???
They craft a bill where, once signed, all the illegals are granted amnesty (yes, a $3,000 maximum fine is amnesty),
AND
The new and improved guest worker program doesn’t kick in until all of the “triggers” are met!! Like that is going to happen.
WTF!!
They got in 180 degrees bass akwards!
Is there something in the water in D.C. that makes these people dumber than rocks??????????????