Jun 06 2007
More Hypochondriac Misinformation
My site has been plagued by false claims of pending doom on the immigration issue. These false profits of doom keep emphasizing the empty rhetoric Bush so accurately called the immigration bill’s opponents on. For example, if you hear gang members and sex offenders are exempt (as many a Chicken Little posted in my comments sections) don’t believe a word of it:
The close vote on a proposal by Sen. John Cornyn, R-Texas, to bar felons—including those court-ordered to be deported—from legalization reflected the delicate position of the contentious immigration bill, which remains under threat from the right and the left.
The vote was 51-46 against the amendment. Democrats succeeded in sucking support from Cornyn’s proposal by winning adoption of a rival version that would bar a more limited set of criminals, including certain gang members and sex offenders, from gaining legalization. The Senate backed that amendment 66-32.
See, all that happened is the immigration hypochondriacs did not get their version of the amendment, clearly a better and more broadly supported version was adopted. The credibility of the shrill-seakers on right is toast. They keep making wild claims which are proved wrong and so they go onto making more wild claims. I guess Chicken Little is the wrong analogy. They are more like the little boy who cried ‘wolf’!
See, all that happened is the immigration hypochondriacs did not get their version of the amendment, clearly a better and more broadly supported version was adopted.
Wow. If you define \”better\” as –
\”bar a more limited set of criminals, including certain gang members and sex offenders, from gaining legalization.\”
then we have no common ground from which to debate. If you truly believe that it is okay to allow certain gang members and sex offenders to be legalized, well then… Wow. All I can say is wow.
We are too far apart on this issue to even have a rational discussion. I am in favor of barring ALL gang members and sex offenders. And you are not.
So be it.
Apache,
Don’t forget, you are for NONE of these. You are for gang members and sex offenders staying here indefinitely because you want the Bill to fail and nothing get passed.
Don’t forget your own sad position you claimed was the morally superior one over the last few days. Do I need to go point you to your promise that passing this bill was worse than doing nothing?
LOL! Yeah right.
Last week Kyl said that if the Cornyn amendment was defeated he would have to rethink his support for the bill. WTF? What happened? Kyl voted against the Cornyn bill after he promised Cornyn support.
Grab you wallets and your guns, kids. THEY ARE REALLY COMING NOW.
Will the last person leaving Mexico and Central, South America please turn out the lights.
AJ
You are flying a false flag here.
I have told you on several occasions before how false it is but you just ignored it.
You still insist this bill FINALLY lets us get rid of criminals who could not be deported before.
Each time it was wrong and I told you why.
If you are illegal in this country, under existing laws allowed to be deported.
I doesn’t matter if you are a saint and a choir boy at your church or a serial killer.
You can be deported simply because you are illegal.
You have put up this false canard too many times.
Today an amendment to tighten the language of the bill to more specifically define the worst of the offenders was defeated, but you still hold the position that this bill somehow makes it better.
EXISTING LAWS allow you to throw the worst out of the country as a misdemeanor that doesn’t have a lot of legal process to get er done.
To support that we need to have secondary requirement just beyond the illegal aspects of the border jumping should be treated as a separate class will only lead to a nightmare of other supposed identified specific ills.
The broad based illegal first policy , if it had been enforced, would have swept all those out without having to define specific “important” priorities.
Don’t make me do this a fourth or fifth time. It’s getting old.
AJ you are the one that has a misconception. Not passing the bill means they are still criminals and if they happened to get caught, they can be deported. If the bill passes they get a Z visa an path to citizenship. Just how many times to you think you can fool people,, Calling names usually doesn’t win arguments. And the only valid thing I’ve seen from you on this issue is that you consistently are screeching and name calling and NEVER making a point. NEVER.
sticks and stones AJ, that went out at about 10 years of age, grow up and stop name calling.
Don’t forget, you are for NONE of these. You are for gang members and sex offenders staying here indefinitely because you want the Bill to fail and nothing get passed.
This is absolutely absurd. Where do you come up with this stuff???
Your poor logic is a perfect example of the fallacy of “false dilemma”. Google it.
You wish to pretend that there are only two choices available to me. That is simply not true. I have at least two other choices which you blatantly ignore. In addition to the two choices you present above, I also have the options of –
a. enforce existing law
b. make this bill better
You want to COMPLETELY IGNORE those obvious other choices and pretend as if they don’t exist. How absurd is that???
This is my personal preference –
Enforce existing law while simultaneously working to improve this bill.
We don’t need a new law to deport illegal immigrant gang members. And we don’t need new laws to deport illegal immigrant sex offenders. Our existing laws will suffice. They simply need to be enforced.
Why do you blatantly ignore that fact?
Do I need to go point you to your promise that passing this bill was worse than doing nothing?
No need. I will reiterate for the upteenth time.
Passing this bill, in its current form, will make the illegal immigration problem worse, and it will be bad for National security (a position which the border patrol also holds).
Therefore, since this bill will exasperate the problem, and harm National security, YES – PASSING THIS BILL IS WORSE THAN DOING NOTHING.
I put it in all caps just to help people remember and to show you that I stand firmly behind that statement.
I made a solid argument on both of this counts. I noticed you didn’t refute a single one of the points I made.
AJ
The gang member renounce exception has been quoted to you before, read back. It is not a myth no matter how you choose to ignore it.
It is just a simple “I did bad and I won’t do it again” slide by.
You are ignoring that and reaching here.
I could rip this post to shreds more, but what’s the point?
From your archives, for the second time.
As you can clearly see, you were of the impression that they had CURRENT LAWS that they were deporting people with in Sept ’06. Did they repeal those laws? I missed that.
But now your position is, they can’t deport these people without this new law? Were you wrong in Sept ’06 or wrong now? You can’t have it both ways.
This bill has portions that are as specific as counting paper clips and other areas that are as broad as a rainbow.
Not a good confidence builder.
merlinOS2
I could rip this post to shreds more, but what’s the point?
Well, you could get called some more names. You’d like that, I’d guess.
AJ
Last time I checked the “legal law” form of this bill still is not up at all the usual sites, and lets not even talk about the amendments that passed muster and were not rejected.
It’s a pure ghost!
But lets just “trust everyone since we have had so much success before”.
Yup , I got all that.
FE
Names don’t bother me, look at the number of email addresses I have LOL.
My point is I am trying, with I guess questionable success to be pragmatic about this whole thing.
Also I have noticed that all the non factual based commentors here have deserted the last several threads with just their “well I think it should be this way but I am not going to even try to justify it” but we are supposed to just slide with the glide because the have karma built up that points them to the wisdom we haven’t reached yet.
Yes they showed up a couple of threads ago and put their “girl scout cookies are good” seal of approval on it without any specific counter points.
I am really shocked. I never thought he would keep trying this!
Let me get the logic:
Passing a watered down ammendment that allows Certain Felons to stay is better than removing them from our society.
That can’t be, let me re check:
“clearly a better and more broadly supported version was adopted”.
Yep, that is what he said.
And he would rather have Harry end debate, rather than try to pass ammendments that correct serious problems.
And WE are the ones who are nuts?
Got it.
I thought I’d see 80 comments on the old posts. They may infact be that way. But I never thought he’d continue in this vein.
Our Local Host just reported Police stopped a vehicle in Gastonia, NC, which had 12 Illegal Aliens in it. The driver un licenced. All had no I’d’s! ICE was called to the scene. Any care to guess what happened next?
If you guessed they were let go, move to the front of the class!
But Comprehensive reform will change this Steve, you see they won’t be Illegal anymore, therefore, no more Catch and Release!
Problem Solved!
And all their friends back homewill say, gee, what’s stopping me from doing the same thing? Certainly not a wall, they can’t seem to build one. Certainly Not the National Guard, they are leaving. And certainly not Immigration officers, why President Law And Order (Bush) is taking 2,000 of them and moving them into the Secret Service Detail, to protect Barak Obama, Hitlery, Mc Clain, and all the rest!
I think the time to head North is Now Amego! Undela Undela
Merlin, my point exactly. No one claims it is good BECAUSE it does anything GOOD. It’s just good because they are doing SOMETHING. They could stick their finger up their …… and accomplish something, but it may not be desirable.
In that case, I’ll call you operating system.
This discussion has an interersting dynamcic that is just like lasts years.
All I heard about was the Senate bill. Senate Bill this and Senate Bill that. Let us all oppose the Senate Bill by not moving to conference.
The Senate bill is not the end of the story. We still have the House. Then we have conference.
I mean if this passess we shall see the Flake bill proceed and the Senate bill will be in the mix. We shall have 435 busyboddies over there examing this and taking about this in minute detail and how all this would work.
THen we go to conference and then both chambers have to vote what comes out of conference
Why all the hyperventitlating right now over supposed deficiencies that are in a possible bill in one chamber?
The examnation and debate will continue. It is not like the Current Senate bill is going to become Law of the land if passess the Senate the very next day
Hey, our Local Host, Jeff Katz is currently “Interviewing” John Mc Cain. I think if you go to http://www.wbt.com you can hear it in a podcast later. Just look for Jeff Katz and follow the links, if interested. Jeff is killing the poor guy!
Under the law as it is currently written, those who have already been through the legal grinder and declared in violation of the immigration laws and properly adjudicated for for deportation can now apply for a zcard.
Got that everyone, they have already been given due process and declared out of here, but now they get a pass.
What’s not to like about that.
Yeah , sure , right.
Question: Senator, in last nights debate You stated that 30% of those who are living in the shadows are people here on expire Visa’s. Why aren’t we going after them?
McCain: Well, we can’t find them. But they will come forward, pay there fines!
Question: You want to build a wall of 370 miles, which would be fine if the Border was 370 miles. Why not build a wall that stops the flow?
McCain: well, my experts say a wall in un populated areas is inefective!
Aw, senator, THAT’S PRIMARILY WHERE THEY ARE COMING
THRU!
The poor guy was being creamed by Common Sense!
Jeff Katz is a Former Police Officer, he is Very Good!