Jun 09 2007
Hispanics Will Help Democrats Over GOP
With the immigration hypochondriacs spew how un-American it is to provide a path to legal status here for illegal workers, by paying fines and back taxes and staying away from crime, they have sent a signal to the Hispanic population – both immigrant and recent citizens. A signal that is unmistakable because the rhetoric from the right is seen as condoning a second hand status to America’s recent immigrants. I don’t care what the so called intentions are of the immigration hypochondriacs, I see the results. I see legal and illegal violent criminals left on the street (and the excuse – oh they weren’t going to be picked up anyway, but they will under current law???). And I see the largest minority voting block reacting – and moving towards the Democrats. So let’s recap on how the heroes of America fixed things up here? They left all these criminals on the street, they called Bush a traitor, and they chased the largest growing block of voters to the Democrat side. Not to mention losing a lot of conservative independents who will not jump off the cliff with them. And I get the feeling these folks are just getting started!
As President Bush said, we do not want to loose our soul over trying to solve this problem. Too bad the conservatives didn’t listen. He knew this discussion would be interpreted as racial, for some it is racial, others it only looks that way. The Dems will paint it as racial. Too bad even conservatives think that the President is a stupid politician.
The wahoos followed NRO and their ilk right off the edge of a cliff. It’s ashame. I had been hoping the GOP would make a comeback in 2008. Now they make be looking at another 40 years in the wilderness.
The wahoos followed NRO and their ilk right off the edge of a cliff. It’s ashame. I had been hoping the GOP would make a comeback in 2008. Now they may be looking at another 40 years in the wilderness.
AJ,
It has been a few days, and you have had an opportunity to rethink an earlier comment that you made. I would like to offer you a chance to recant that earlier comment.
You said that it would be okay if an illegal immigrant were using someone else’s SSN for employment purposes.
Do you still feel that way?
Apache, AJ will only care about illegals using someone’s Social Security number when it is HIS Social Security number they are using. When they have used it to open credit accounts they didn’t pay and collection agencies are calling him, when they have dumped money into his Social Security account that SS doesn’t know what to do with, when he receives a bill that included penalties and fines from the IRS for not reporting the extra income and when he has to hire a lawyer who specializes in Social Security, THEN and ONLY THEN, will he care.
Until then, those of us it has happend to are only “immigration hypochondriacs”.
Hopefully, things will be different a year from now and we will still have a Republican US President.
Retire,
I suspect you are correct, but let’s give AJ an opportunity to answer before we jump to conclusions.
It doesn’t just affect the living. It also affects those who haven’t even been born yet.
Has everyone seen this –
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6814673/
It is pretty scary. Children who have yet to be born will find themselves coming into this world with a full work history and credit history. They will be born with a hideous mess to sort out, before they even realize the significance of the mess that they are in. And they might not even realize the mess they are in until they are 18 or older.
This has to end.
Ro5,
You will only care about violent criminal illegal aliens when someone you know is killed or raped.
Which is worse? Rape or identity theft. Clearly you are more concerned about the potential to lose your SS ID than your neighbors daughter becoming the victim of a serial rapist here LEGALLY.
We all have our priorities. Covet thy SS ID. Forget about your neighbors.
Rev. Norman Sirnic and his wife Karen. He was known to us as Skip.
Josephine Konvicka, an nice elderly lady that never had an unkind word for anyone and always had a smile 0n her face.
Google them, AJ.
I attended all both funerals. Skip and Karen were buried from the same church the same day.
Yes, the deaths of these super nice people were not necessary. It was because of people like you who think that everyone who crosses our border should be given the benefit of the doubt. It was because of people like you who have no problem with sanctuary cities. It was because of people like you who are willing to let criminals come into our nation when we already have our own set of slugs.
COVER MY SS ID? Do you not covet your credit rating? Do you not covert what you have worked all your life to achieve?
You are out of line, man. Way out of line. But you would rather allow millions of people with Pan Am attitudes toward the law that protect and support Americans.
You are a disgrace.
This article is one reason why this issue needs to be put to bed this year. If not we will start taking damage among hispanics that we cannot repair.
The issue goes beyond the legalization of the illegals. THe problems is that this whole debate is increasing the level of anti hispanic feeling. One again just has to go to the comment sections of many blogs and forums to see that. It is generating a self fullfing prophecy. That is they “all” think” alike and therefore people in self defense will start grouping together.
It is infuriating that the media gives all the atttention to those in the gop are that are allied with conservatives that are generating this backlash.
WHy are not seeing the HEad of the GOP Sen Martinez ,himself a Immigrant on TV. Why are we not seeing the bravery of Sen Graham and others? Our Secretary of Commerce is hispanic and this is his bill is largly his baby. If Bush gets this through I hope we have one hell of a PR moment that is coordinated through Hispanic media
The Republican party lost the black vote largely through stupid moves. We should not make the same mistake twice.
We have over the past couple of decades made steady improveent in the hispanic vote. THat was until last year and the 2006 elections. THis is one reason why I have no idea why NRO is totally burying its heads in the sand on this. I have asked repeatly that they engage Hispanic and Latino Republicans and conservatives. Yet I am not even aware if they are know about the National Hispanic Republican Assembly. Why we not hearing more from our California GOvernor out there. Surely he has thoughts on this.
Again this is one reason I want this put to bed. I am also betting that the major contenders in the that are running for the nomination wish this would happen too. If this iisue is red hot next year during a Presidential campaign it could cause a lot of damage.
AJ: as usual, on this topic, you adopt your “talking point” regardless of the actual FACTS, then continuoulsy hit it home with your posts, ignoring people’s attempts to discuss the issue with you, ignoring their legitimate questions, and repeating your “talking point” ad naseum, even it is completely wrong, as this newest “talking point” of yours is, on this issue!
Specifically, that not passing this bill in it’s current form, allows 1 million ILLEGAL Alien criminals on the streets, and thus, those who wanted the bill IMPROVED are somehow guilty if our neighbors are raped or killed by ILLEGAL aliens now!
As usual on this issue/topic AJ, you just completely and thoroughly, INVENT the “math” out of thin air, as you’ve done before, when you have no supporting data, nor FACTS, to back up your wild speculations!
How completely and thorougly are you not only WRONG AJ, but this is really a new, and quite frankly, despicable attack, and “talking point”!
Here are the actual FACTS on that issue, AJ:
Sen. John Cornyn (R.-Tex.) was alarmed that the “grand bargain†would grant amnesty, green cards, and ultimately citizenship to gang members, sex offenders, alien smugglers who use firearms, repeat drunken drivers, and “absconders†(aliens who flout court orders to leave the U.S.). He tried to deny citizenship to these “fugitive aliens†(law enforcement officials estimate 636,000 are in the U.S.). His amendment failed, thanks to the political cover provided by an alternative amendment from Sen. Ted Kennedy (D-Mass.). Though Kennedy’s amendment would bar future waves of criminal aliens from gaining legal status, it would do nothing to bring those already in the U.S. to justice. Lesson:
The “grand bargain†would grant citizenship to 636,000 aliens who have thumbed their nose at our criminal-justice system.
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=21045
It also PROVES what I said to you on the other post; YOU DON’T LISTEN, you don’t READ the POSTS and the FACTS, you’re so busy insulting your readers and most important, your SUPPORTERS, that you have NOT educated yourself at all, ON THE BILL; you have NO IDEA what is contained in it, and you will NOT let a good insult, and a bogus argument get in the way of the Truth!
I posted all this information in the last thread, specifically for YOU, so you’d quit ignoring the FACTS, and quit embarrassing yourself.
Even Clarice, an eminently respectable, intelligence, well-educated, smart lady, lawyerly “somebody”, has tried to talk some sense to you on this issue, and you’ve refused to listen.
Congrats AJ, I didn’t think you could do it; but you’ve finally pissed me off!
If I want to have my intelligence insulted on a daily basis, and read Posts by people who ignore the facts and post delusional ramblings, I’d go hang out at TO, MO.org, dKos or DU!
Instead, I’ll find someplace else to hang out, Capt’n Quarters is a good place, at least he sticks to FACTS, and doesn’t insult his readers! He may get his analysis wrong from time to time, but he doesn’t fall in love with his own analysis, and he’s willing to admit when he’s made a mistake, and correct his analysis, later on, if the FACTS warrant it!
And, when his readers happen to disagree with him, he doesn’t keep posting on the same issue, relentlessly attacking them, calling them names, and insulting their intelligence with made up facts and speculations, just to prove that it’s his Blog, and he can do what he wants to with it, even if it defies all reality!
You may cancel my password/log-in whatever it is, I won’t be posting here anymore.
I wish you well with your Blog AJ, and good luck to you and yours in the Future.
R/dale
PS: AJ, I actually HOPE the bill is not “dead”; I hope Harry Reid brings it back, I hope, as should happen in a Representative Republic, it is debated again, more, and improved with Amendments, and all the “holes” in it are fixed, and I hope the Immigration debacle is fixed, once and for all.
But if it is AJ, it will be no thanks to you; you’ve swallowed the Kool Aid on this, hook, line, and sinker, and your blinders-on-support of a fatally flawed piece of legislation, actually betrays more of your flaws, than it does of those of us who wanted it Fixed!
AJ,
One thing that would be helpful I think is if in the next week we find those bloggers that are support Comprehensive reform . They are out there and I have seen wuite a few commenting on the “Amnchoress” threads. Perhaps also have a cool avatar of Badge(like the Raging Rino or Coalition of the Chilling that you have).
I also would like to find especially those that are Hispanic/Latino/ and Asian bloggers that conservative and republican. I think getting these bloggers or at least in theri post on the issue showing up and being registered on Techorati and other places is essential so these start showing up on google searches.
Further I think we need to double down and start posting in the various comment sections on blogs and especially those like Redstate. Also, I still say to keep sending in emails to the writers of the post on THE Corner. I do get some repsonses. True Mr Derbyshire, Mrs Lopez, and Mr Krikorian will not post our commets, but I notice people like Jonah Goldberg, and a few others will. Mr Kurtz sent me a nice reply to his post he need today on the illimgration engima and said that it was helpful. I think we have got to start combating these folks more directly and making sure our voice is heard.
Over at Big Lizards today
http://tinyurl.com/36ebe2
Democrats were upset at Sen. Ted Kennedy’s (D-MA, 100%) deal to expand the list of criminal offenses that would bar illegals from getting a Z visa, which was the only reason that the similar but harsher amendment by Sen. John Cornyn (R-TX, 96%) was defeated. And there were upcoming amendments, e.g., >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>to force the deportation of illegal aliens convicted of crimes within the United States after they served their sentences
Only part of my prior post went through
My point that was dropped of is that there is a waiting amendment that hopes to address what AJ says is already in the bill.
If that was the case , why would they need the amendment?
Is this that big voting block AJ was talking about? AJ are you this thorough with all of your posts?
• The foreign born account for 56 percent of the Latino adult population but only 28 percent of the 2004 voters. As a result, 27 percent of Latino adults live in households where only Spanish is spoken compared to only 9 percent of voters.
• An analysis of census and exit poll data suggests that President Bush took 40 percent of the Hispanic vote in 2004 rather than the 44 percent originally reported from the major news media exit poll.
• Religion appears to be linked to President Bush’s improved showing among Hispanics in 2004 over 2000, when he took 34 percent of Latino votes. Hispanic Protestants made up a larger share of the Latino vote last year (32% in 2004 compared with 25% in 2000), and
56 percent of these voters supported the president in 2004, compared with 44 percent in 2000. The president’s share of the Hispanic Catholic vote remained essentially unchanged between 2000 and 2004.
Merlin,
Right now there is not bar to staying in America for convicted felons. There is not large list, no small list. There is no list.
You crowed about your successes. Take a bow for allowing them all to stay!
Thanks – a lot.
I have to say I am wondering if I want to be associated with some of the people I see in the comments sections of some blogs. Jeb Bush writes an oped in support of comprehensive reform and someone makes some obscene comment about his “mex” wife. And no one seems to notice or care what kind of message that sends. They think that as long as they look “tough” it will work for them. I don’t think so.
There are a lot of hispanics in this country who can trace their families back further than my mother’s side of the family can and they are beginning to react to some of the greaser wetback ship em all back idiotic rhetoric that has been all too obvious in this debate.
Back during the whole civil rights debate I do not doubt that there were some people who opposed that bill on states rights grounds. I don’t doubt that they felt the bill was unconstitutional in fact. And in the south it was very unpopular to support that bill.
So they just sort of pretended the lynch the nigger rhetoric was not going on or was not a big deal and that it would not effect them. I remember when Martin Luther King was killed I had a relative whose immediate response was “High time somebody shot that nigger”. My Dad turned on him. He just refused to be associated with that kind of rhetoric. To this day how does most the world see the southern white man? In popular fiction, movies, media he has become the caricature of the bigoted villain. The fact that is not true, does not change that.
I think that some people on the right are very close to making the same mistake now. That does not mean they can not insist on strong enforcement laws or even a physical barrier, but they have to remember that this is republic and some compromise is necessary to governance and if they refuse to ever compromise then they simply become obstructionists.
Remember Daschle? Where is he now?
That is just great, the GOP, a cross between Pat Buchanan and Tom Daschle.
AJ, Im not a republican. Nor have I ever been a member of the republican party.
2nd_ it has not helped their cause for the illegals to have their little F You America parades.
3rd_I’m just as concerned about the illegal Russians here as I am the hispanics. And by lot..they are FAR worse in criminal activities…etc.
“The Republican party lost the black vote largely through stupid moves. We should not make the same mistake twice.” BLSUSF
This is what baffles me. Nothing, absolutely nothing concerning enforcement will actually change should this bill be enacted with two exceptions: 1) those illegally here now will automatically become legal; and 2) new hordes of illegal immigrants will flood our already overburdened system.
Bush had to know this. He also had to know that given the extreme unpopularity of this ill funded, unfair proposal masquerading as immigration reform, the bill would go down to defeat and that any negative fallout from that defeat would impact the Republicans.
Given that reality, I cannot understand WHY Bush participated in bringing this particular bill in its current configuration forward at this time. It’s absolute lunacy.
Talk about voting blocs and appeasement, Strata?
Were I a dishonorable Macchavalian, I would remain silent,
avoiding all protest, at the transmogrification of the Southwest, at the least , into a “Pan American attitude” region as an above
poster called it.
Mexican-Americans and recent immigrants are even more
against the Iraq War than the general populace and are
generally pro-Palestinian and anti-Zionist, “La Raza” even
publishing material on the subject for example–and
Buchanan’s “Whose War” outlined the group most responsible
for our self-defeatingly aggressive Mideast policies.
America First nationalists could simply wait until
their numbers paralyse the Empire’s foreign policy and
will-to-power generally.
However the damage done to domestic American affairs
in the interim is too much to allow, unless one is already consigned
to a formal fissure of the nation, ala Yugoslavia, in another
generation or so.
So I say again–vote Ron Paul, tough on immigration, tough
on imperialism.