Jun 13 2007
Bush’s Bona Fides On Immigration Enforcement
This will be my last attempt to show the far right they are wrong and their views are built upon mythology and propaganda when it comes to immigration. We have had shifting excuses as to why the immigration plan is better off dead and we stay mired in the current mess for another 5-10 years – than make some real progress. People say Bush is not enforcing the laws. Well, that is pure BS:
Look at this White House Fact Sheet and note some key points:
* The Border Patrol has increased from 9,000 agents in 2001 to 13,000 agents now – and plans to hit 18,000 by the end of 2008.
* Funding for border security has gone from $4.6 billion to $10.4 billion.
* Worksite enforcement actions increased from 24 in FY99 to 716 in FY2006.
* Nearly half of the planned 370 miles (at the end of 2008) of fencing/vehicle barriers have been built.
After two decades of doing nothing Bush in on track to double the border patrol numbers. He has worked with Congress to more than double the funds for border security. He has been on a rampage going after employers like no President ever – increasing worksite actions by nearly 3,000 percent!. So forget the Kool-aid, deal with the record.
I do not see the far right doing anything with these facts except continuing on with endless fantasy rationalizations as they grasp for another excuse to oppose the bill. That is why I stopped trying to talk to them – they are in denial. And when they went on the air and called the opposition un-American, traitors – basically evil – they surrendered the respect of civil debate. The far right is out of gas. Out of solutions, out of ideas, out of civility – and if you look at Tancredo and Buchannan and that class they are out of their minds.
If the far right wants respect and allies in their causes it is simple. A sincere mea culpa – in public – for being too strident and harsh with their language for starters. And then pass this bill and start on the next one to add more meat where they want to try and add more meat. Anything other than this is just a delaying tactic and will be a sign of insincerity. With their track record on this issue – that is probably more than they deserve. They got themselves into this mess. They have to get themselves out of it. Like I said – there are other alliances to be had which will produce results and not stupid flame wars between what were supposed to be allies. Just remember how the right treated Harriet Miers and note the moderates are not being that low and foul. We are just changing alliances. Miers is still deserving an apology for all the crude insinuations made regarding her character. Add that to the list of things required to rebuild the bridges.
Addendum: Speaking of burning bridges, the GOP is not responding well to the concerns voiced by one of their strongest Latino members – Linda Chavez. I simply offer her points up as a those offered by a long time, valued GOP voice who needs to be respected – not dissed like the far right is doing to her, and Martinez and other Hispanics in the Bush administraion.
EXCELLENT AJ, just excellent!
AJ, the piece by Linda Chavez is superb, but her summary describes to a T the majority of debate we’re having here:
from one year ago:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/18/AR2006061800613.html
The latest bust that made national headlines was the Swift Packing company raid. Perhaps President Bush would like to tell us how many of the corporate heads of Swift are not in the judicial system?
–begin quote–
ICE officials raided the ASR office on North Lombard, their satellite office inside Fresh Del Monte and Fresh Del Monte itself. It was at these locations where officials arrested three managers for knowingly hiring undocumented workers and supplying them with false documentation.
The investigation began six months ago after officials received tips. Investigators then sent in an undercover informant posing as someone looking for employment at Fresh Del Monte.
He was told by an ASR representative that a fake social security card would be O.K., as long as it looked like an official government document.
Officials say up to 90 employees had fraudulent or forged social security cards, some of which displayed the real social security of juveniles, the elderly or people who have died. Fake green cards were issued as well.
–end quote–
source for the above –
http://www.koin.com/Global/story.asp?S=6649875
Let’s hope that the SSN’s that belonged to juveniles were the children of people who think that is is okay for illegal immigrants to do that.
05,
I must challenge the conservative credentials of those that always call for draconian justice for “corporate” misdemeaners but demand pardon for convicted border guard felonies. Constantly excusing government workers is a tactic of the Left.
–begin quote–
Portland Mayor Tom Potter says he’s unhappy with how the raids were carried out.
He released this statement: “I am angered by this morning’s arrest by federal officers of approximately 150 Portland residents who were working at a local produce company. I certainly understand why federal officials executed criminal warrants against three individuals who stole and sold Social Security numbers. But to go after local workers who are here to support their families while filling the demands of local businesses for their labor is bad policy.”
–end quote–
source is same as previous comment
Good luck enforcing any of those new laws. The flaming liberals will whine and complain and demand that the enforcement be backed off. Just like in 86.
And NOTHING in this bill will change that.
–begin quote–
Portland Mayor Tom Potter says he’s unhappy with how the raids were carried out.
He released this statement: “I am angered by this morning’s arrest by federal officers of approximately 150 Portland residents who were working at a local produce company. I certainly understand why federal officials executed criminal warrants against three individuals who stole and sold Social Security numbers. But to go after local workers who are here to support their families while filling the demands of local businesses for their labor is bad policy.”
–end quote–
source is same as previous comment
Good luck enforcing any of those new laws. The flaming liberals will whine and complain and demand that the enforcement be backed off. Just like in 86.
And NOTHING in this bill will change that.
Apache goes off the reservation again….
LOL! where in the bill does it say we will be OK with people using fake/stolen IDs? No one said it was OK. We said it was probably not a deportable offense.
The serial exaggerators strike again! Too pathetic. They make up fake problems, they make up fake solutions and they make up lies about what people’s positions and statements are.
And then they are shocked! someone calls their credibility into question.
Some of this you just can’t make up!!
Macker, perhaps if you had followed the case of Ramos and Compean as closely as I did, you would have found some reason to question the tactics of the federal prosecutor, Johnny Sutton, who now has not two, not three, but four Border Patrol agents notched in his belt, all from the El Paso sector and three of whom are Hispanic.
As long as the federal attorney’s office continue to prosecute BP agents for doing their jobs and give a free rein (and amnesty from prosecution of a crime) to illegal drug runners, the recruitment numbers for Border Patrol will continue to fall short of it’s goal (as reported by the BP union Local 2544) and we will continue to see record numbers of early retirements within the agency.
Yes, there are rouge BP agents such as those who have been caught smuggling illegals into our nation. But as a whole, the agency is full of unappreciated, under paid agents who are hard working, putting their lives on the line everyday, and are conscientious civil servants.
A dozen rouge cops in the NYPD does not make the whole organization a criminal enterprise.
I have no idea what you do for a living, but let’s assume you are a plumber; there are crooked plumbers who bilk customers for thousands of dollars. Does that mean that you also are a crook or does it just mean that there are a few bad apples. Does it also mean that there are some who may be tainted by the bad apples who really are conscientious plumbers who do a good job?
Hiring illegal aliesn is not a “corporate” misdemeanor. It is a federal crime.
bush? “As I pointed out Bush has more bona fides on enforcement that anyone in 20 years. ”
he has no record. that’s why the senators handed him the letter. you continue to make stuff up. if previously there were 100 border agents and he incresed it to 150 yes the force went up 50% but so what. since bush has been in office the illegal immigration across the southern border has gone from 5 million to over 10 million.
your logic then says if bush hadn’t done “all he has done” the problem would be worse. well that’s just f’n wonderful. bush et al like all the losers before them have no intention of sealing the border. neither do you. there have been on the books, countless laws, too many to mention that bush and company have refused to enforce. hell, clinton had more arrests and deportations than bush did. how pathetic is that. bush has zero credibility on immigration reform. every new law has been shoved down his throat. so he then guts them just like the fence act from last october. you think its great that he’s changed the double fencing to vehicle barriers(guard rails basically), cut it in half and adds 75 miles of previously existing fencing as part of the completion ratio. the bill called for the entire 700-854 miles of fence to be completed by the end of 2008–with most of it completed by this july. how much have they done AJ? come on AJ, i can’t hear you. talk to duncan hunter, he was one of the co-sponors. eleven miles!!!!!!!!!!!!
the border security credits of this president and congress and all that went before them is zero. that’s why we have 12-20 million illegal aliens in this country. duh!
not being able to see that might be a plea for professional help.
this is what the majority of americans know—bush and the government cannot be trusted to enforce border security. their record proves it. you have another agenda……….
Apache goes off the reservation again….
Yes, I am waaaaay off the reservation.
LOL! where in the bill does it say we will be OK with people using fake/stolen IDs? No one said it was OK. We said it was probably not a deportable offense.
Turn that comment around. Where in the bill does it say that they will prosecute people who use someone else’s SSN???
Not a deportable offense??? No, AJ. It is ID theft. And ID theft is a felony. And being found guilty of a felony is not only deportable, it is deportable AFTER serving your jail time.
You are sooooooooooooooooooo delusional it is beyond words.
But what else should I expect from someone who thinks it is “Okay” if someone else is using my SSN for their employment. That mentality speaks VOLUMES about you AJ. You may not believe that it does, but trust me – it does.
Some of this you just can’t make up!!
On this point, we agree.
If the far right wants respect and allies in their causes it is simple. A sincere mea culpa – in public – for being too strident and harsh with their language for starters. And then pass this bill and start on the next one to add more meat where they want to try and add more meat. Anything other than this is just a delaying tactic and will be a sign of insincerity. With their track record on this issue – that is probably more than they deserve. They got themselves into this mess. They have to get themselves out of it.
I agree, but A.J., do you see any signs of this happening? Since I am trying to avoid the echo chamber I can’t really tell. I confess in all honesty, an apology at this point won’t mean too much to me. I’m afraid some extraordinarily mean and despicable people have exposed themselves a little too fully for me to forget. Some of the damage done will never be repaired. But I would be willing to put my feelings aside and accept a simple resolution to get ON with the job at hand. Time might take care of the rest. Or it might not. But at least we could move past this log jam.
Linda Chavez’s piece is tremendous and very courageous. I commend her, and wonder where the army of fellow “conservatives” is, that should be standing beside her. The Nat’l Review gang responded to Linda en masse yesterday. Their comments were not persuasive and mostly ignored the specifics. They sounded so very self assured and self righteous, what’s new. But I think Linda rattled the cage pretty good, and it is possible we may see a change in tone due to her efforts (though she will never get credit or roses). Perhaps at the very least, the hard line faction is beginning to realize what affect they have on ordinary people when they let too many of their motives and underlying convictions show.
SallyVee,
An apology is the only way to patch this up right now. Too many got too wound up and said a lot of things they shouldn’t have. But no, I do not see this happening. That is why I think it would be more productive to look left instead of right for good allies.
–begin quote–
In the USA, until 2003, dealing with consumer crimes involving legally attributed personal identifiers was the jurisdictional responsibility of the local and state authorities. Identification documents are a different story, addressed in Title 18 > Part I > Chapter 47 s.1028 of the U.S. Code. The unlawful use of identification documents is historically a federal offence. In response to the consumer issue of “identity theft”, the U.S. Congress passed the Identity Theft and Assumption Deterrence Act (2003) amending Title 18 > Part I > Chapter 47, s. 1028 to include the unlawful use of a “means of identification” [s,1028 (d)(7)] making it a federal crime alongside identification documents. The title of s.1028 is, “Fraud related to activity in connection with identification documents, authentication features, and information”. The Act also provides the Federal Trade Commission with authority to track the number of incidents and the dollar value of losses. There figures relate mainly to consumer financial crimes and not the broader range of all identification-based crimes.[8] Punishments for the unlawful use of a “means of identification” were strengthened in s.1028a, allowing for a consecutive sentence under specific conditions of a felony violation defined in s. 1028c.
If used to commit another crime in the commission of identity theft in the United States (if charged federally) include:
* Class B Felony: 6-20 years in Jail and a fine up to $10,000
* Class C Felony: 2-8 years in Jail and a fine up to $10,000
If charges are brought by state or local law enforcement agencies, different penalties apply depending on the state.
–end quote–
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity_theft
And according to the bill, convicted felons are not eligible for anything. But have no fear, AJ! There is nothing in the bill that indicates they plan on actually enforcing that silly old law.
III. Statutory authority for prosecuting
SSN misuse and identity theft
A. The statutory framework of 42 U.S.C.
§ 408(a)(7)(A)-(C)
In 1981 Congress amended the misdemeanor
provisions of the Act, making Social Security
fraud (including SSN misuse) a felony, punishable
by five years in prison and a fine up to $5,000.
See Omnibus Reconciliation Act, Pub. L. No.
97-123, § 4, 95 Stat. 1659, 1663-64 (1981); see
also 42 U.S.C. §§ 408(a)(7)(A)-(C). The Social
Security Act’s primary criminal provisions
relating to misuse of a Social Security Number
(§§ 408(a)(7)(A)-
(C)), are set forth below in
pertinent part:
In general
Whoever–
(7) for the purpose of causing an increase in
any payment authorized under this subchapter
(or any other program financed in whole or in
part from federal funds), or for the purpose of
causing a payment under this subchapter (or
any such other program) to be made when no
payment is authorized thereunder, or for the
purpose of obtaining (for himself or any other
person) any payment or any other benefit to
which he (or such other person) is not entitled,
or for the purpose of obtaining anything of
value from any person, or for any other
purpose
(A) willfully, knowingly, and with intent to
deceive, uses a social security account
number, assigned by the Commissioner of
Social Security (in the exercise of the
Commissioner’s authority under
§ 405(c)(2)(A) of this title to establish and
maintain records) on the basis of false
information furnished to the Commissioner of
Social Security by him or by any other
person;
(B) with intent to deceive, falsely represents a
number to be the social security account
number assigned by the Commissioner of
Social Security to him or to another person,
when in fact such number is not the social
security account number assigned by the
Commissioner of Social Security to him or to
such other person;
(C) knowingly alters a social security card
issued by the Commissioner of Social
Security, buys or sells a card that is, or
purports to be, a card so issued, counterfeits a
social security card, or possesses a social
security card or counterfeit social security
card with intent to sell or alter it.
â€
See 42 U.S.C. §§ 408(a)(7)(A)-(C).
pages 8 and 9 –
http://justice.gov/usao/eousa/foia_reading_room/usab5301.pdf
05,
Of course, most border patrol agents are honest, just as most corporate managers are. But I am tired of seeing business being scapegoated on this issue.You “enforcement only” people won’t give business the tools to quickly identify who is hireable. And you are unsympathetic to labor shortages and the difficulties of managing a company or farm.
You “enforcement only†people won’t give business the tools to quickly identify who is hireable.
HORSE PUCKY!! That’s been available since for YEARS! And it is completely free of charge. And, it is an on-line service.
Easy to use and completely FREE. What more do you want?
http://www.smartbusinesspractices.com/legal_howtousebasicpilot.php
https://www.vis-dhs.com/EmployerRegistration/StartPage.aspx?JS=YES
And you are unsympathetic to labor shortages and the difficulties of managing a company or farm.
Are you unfamiliar with the laws of supply and demand. Pay better wages and employees will RUN to you.
You simply want cheap labor. Stop trying to spin it like it is anything other than that.
Good grief! Cheap labor? That is a myth. It’s called labor that will travel across the country to work and then back again! Hard workers!
Getting the job done, not whinning about more government help.
And has anyone thought about using private resources to help those who are trying to help themselves here in America? Many of these people have been magnificent entrepreneurs, self-starters and took initiative to improve their lives. Is that not what conservatism espouses anymore? Or is it just a populist ranting machine now?