Jun 13 2007
Michelle Proves My Point
Michelle Malkin has made my point about the idiocy of saying all we need to do is enforce our laws and we are good. She has a long list of cases where the laws fell down and failed. Not because law enforcement was not trying (duh – that is why these cases were in court) but because the laws on the books are impotent and full of holes. Malkin likes to claim those we see this and realize the immigration bill will close a lot of those holes so when these cases go to court the government wins more are either (1) Liars or (b) Clueless.
Whatever Michelle. The fact is she provides a strong case why the status quo is a failure not because of a lack of effort or money or fences. It is a failure because it is FUBAR’d. While imperfect, the immigration bill fixes a lot of these holes. It includes “amnesty” as well for the long term illegals here now. But instead of fixing these holes and stopping this madness and taking the criminals off the streets and showing them the door at our border, Malkin continues to kid herself that we should not pass the bill.
This illogical position is rapidly becoming untenable and will fail. Just as it fails the laugh test. Our laws are broken so heaven forbid we do something to fix them! It is Malkin, Tancredo and Lou Dobbs who are fighting to keep this mess. Two thirds are ready to work the problem and get beyond this pretzel logic infecting the far right of the GOP.
BTW, the rift on the right is real and some are waking up. DJ Drummond addresses the issue well. I feel I was in the camp that tried to warn those who were going too far that they should slow down. I tried it respectfully. I have now joined a new camp – I am do not want to bury the hatchet. Too many trips down the purity road. Too many times hard core emotions torpedoed the conservative coalition, taking aim out fellow cons. Too many willing to go the scortched earth path to win. I was once in the let’s try to work this out camp. Now I am in the ‘why would I want to ally with these people’ camp. I am not being vindictive. I have been utterly repulsed. To much vitriol, too much hate, to much of a lot of bad things I don’t need to name anymore. That is why I say the coalition is over. I tend to be one of the last rats to jump a sinking ship. I am an optimist at heart.
But there comes a point to close the chapter and move on. Without some kind of mea culpa from the flame throwers on the right and a commitment to not repeat what has been repeated many times now since Harriet Miers had her name dragged through the mud – that chapter seems better closed. Everytime I peak at the comments at Free Republic and Lucianne and LGF I see reasons to shut the door again – not walk back in. At some point you stop seeing the good and you see all the bad and it becomes too much, it overpowers the good.
51 Responses to “Michelle Proves My Point”
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AJ
In fairness, she presents a good case that the law IMPLEMENTATION by the Immigration Courts and the appeal court are part of the problem.
Guess what.
They are not even addressed by this bill except to add personnel.
There is no structural change to the court end of the system and all the alternative appeal routes.
This still be an issue which continues to haunt us.
AJ, I wish you would reconsider.
I understand completely where you are coming from. Like you I spent much time warning people to stop the madness. Like you perhaps the comments here irratate me at times because many posters feeling sare hurt becaus some have defended themselves slighty.
When I posted on Free Republic and was called horrible names and always had people attempted to ban me where were they or people like them? Very few stood up and said don’t treat a fellow conservative or Republican that way. In my Catholic Tradition during mass we pray for God to forgive us of the thing we have done and LEFT UNDONE. That includes silence when people should have spoken up. Very few did.
However, we have no choice to come back together. Also in the end is this really a huge part of the party? I mean no one in my memory elected Sean Hanity, Michelle Malkin, Hugh and assorted others major players in the conservative Coalition. Are we not in the end talking about a part of the movement that just repeats back the same old song and dance to each other?
One thing to think about AJ is that LA TImes Poll. despite a negative pr campaign the numbers have held. That is because for many that are even actively involved much of this is background noise.
If we split we become insignificant. That is the fact.
JH
Louisiana
Merlin,
She makes a good case it is NOT Bush’s fault or Congress’s fault at this moment. She makes a great case WHY we need the new bill to tighten things up.
Yes, there are fixes in the bill. Not ALL fixes. Come back after this bill and add some more. No one is stopping anyone from coming back for round two.
Let it pass – or own the morasse
AJ
I have no love for how the Miers issue was handled , but do you honestly believe that she would have been as good a choice for a court seat as John Roberts??????
You are arguing process over product there and way on the wrong end of the stick.
Yeah, every time I see the comment “just enforce the law,” I keep wanting to ask the commenter why he thinks the law isn’t being enforced. You’d think the meme going around was that President Bush told the USCIS and the Border Patrol to just procrastinate or something, and all that was required was to give the right person a kick in the pants and that would make everything all better.
If this problem were easy to solve, it would have been solved decades ago.
How she would be as USSC justice is not relevant to the problem of the far right. And it is not an excuse for poor behavior. The far right assumes it can do what it takes to win – no matter how vulgar. After repelling everyone they cannot understand what happened.
AJ
The methods may have been wrong by and extreme few, but there was still a wide rejection even by those who handled it in a civil manner.
Miers made as much sense as a football team passing up their first round draft pick to get the highest rated quaterback out of the field and instead taking the owner of the team’s nephew.
The important issue was getting a solid conservative constructionist judge on the court and there were a number of much better qualified choices than Miers could even hope to present.
Merlin,
There was no wide denouncements. They patted themselves on the back and have done more of the same ever since.
Show me the apology to Miers by those who made up stuff about her (especially at NRO and her nemesis Frum).
You are doing it again. The ends justified the means.
Not anymore.
Well I come home from work and we are still having the same argument.
I think that Michelle can play this little game all she wants, after all the only thing she is responsible for is indoctrinating other people to knee jerk think and believe as she does. It is like that with all these people. They have their fan clubs who go their sites and believe whatever crazy stuff they come up with. Oh yeah, Senator Kyl is a traitor, but you can trust Michelle. You betcha. It is not as if she has her own agenda or anything.
It is obvious that the laws are not adequate as they stand. So far Michelle’s contribution to the subject has been to make me wonder if the Democrats can really be that much worse than the Republicans if Michelle is an example of what a conservative intellectual sounds like.
People like biglsufan make me think that maybe there is something worth saving. There are good people in the conservative movement. They are not all a bunch of ideologues.
I know I have written a lot of these other people like Michelle off and I will not be changing my mind about them. If someone else wants to waste their time in mindless obedience to the talking heads like Michelle and Hugh, they can. I think they have their own plans for the party and immigration is just a means to an end.
And this annoying habit they of assuming they are experts on the subject really pisses me off. Michelle knows as much about immigration as she does port terminals. The same can be said for a lot of bloggers and pundits out there. They don’t really know what they are talking about.
Present company excluded of course. At least I do not pretend to know it all.
Merlin:
It was not their place to reject the nominee. I remember hearing all these self righteous sanctimonious people drone on about how Bush had a right to his nominee, right up until he chose someone they did not like. And then forget all that rhetoric, they just had to make asses of themselves.
I remember Ann Coulter doing her elitist little “In Defense of the Ivy League” thing in which she came right out and said that a mere mortal who went to a {shudder} state university was not top drawer enough. David Frum said that evern if Miers made all the right decisions she would still not be good enough, she could never be good enough…there were charges of char woman, people making fun of her age, her eye makeup, her hair, calling her an old maid, a spinster. It was mean and personal and tacky as hell.
AJ
All who followed the issue had a short list of judges and the only issue was which one to pick.
Miers wasn’t even on the radar.
The rejection was wide and deep and mostly civil.
It was simply a matter of choosing the best we could put forward.
For every loud over the top voice, there were 5 or 6 reasoned ones.
There was even a point of speculation that GWB was gonna try to substitute Gonzales for Meirs.
Yes there was much bad behavior, but strictly on the merits Meirs should have never even come up to cause the issue to begin with.
A.J., the place we differ is that I still have hope the GOP will regroup and become a whole and effective party. Since you are not an affiliated Republican, the jump is not quite as distressing for you. Me, I’m still clinging to my punctured life raft and waving my ragged little GOP flag! However, if we don’t get it together, I think your vision of “new coalitions” is a perfectly viable alternative and helps me face the future, come what may.
Thanks for nailing Malkin. Few people irritate and exhaust me as much as her omniscient self. I used to respect her opinion once upon a time. But she’s blown all credibility with her ugly, relentless fixation on alien invaders. (Cue the scary music.) But LSU is quite correct… who the heck is she? She doesn’t persuade me in the least… matter of fact she’s possibly the most effective deterrent to her own causes. Terrye is also correct — Malkin, Hewitt, Hannity et al. are not experts in much besides self-promotion and filling up airwaves with hysterical propaganda. I left behind their noise in the echo chamber with all the other un-elected, un-appointed demagogues.
DJ Drummond’s piece is pretty darn good. I hope many others are beginning to wake up as well. Every add’l appraisal helps… lots of people might never comment at all, but they read, think it over, and eventually may be persuaded that we need to correct course — in a hurry.
Add to that the fact that Bush did get them two conservative nominees and that bought about 5 minutes of good behavior and then they were at it again. bitch bitch bitch.
Merlin:
Are you an expert on Supreme Court Justices? If the self anointed experts of the world of pundits had not informed you that Miers was not acceptable, would you have known that?
I read David McCullough’s bio on Truman and he reminds me of Bush in some ways. He said that one would think columnists held a cabinet position since they think they run the country.
The internet has given these people more opportunities to promote themselves and their ideas, but when it comes to nominating Supreme Court Justices, that duty resides with the President of the United States. Not some loud mouth pundit.
Sally Vee:
When I think of GOP I tend to think of people like my mother in law. I am one of those rare women who actually liked her mother in law. She was a true blue Republican and she was one of those people who would never have gone out of her way to insult anyone or force her views on people.
Terrye
An expert no.
But it doesn’t seem to be too far a stretch that a sitting federal judge with a clear case history background adjudged by fellow jurists and members of the legal community would be a much well documented and worthy pick for such a position than someone with no judicial experience.
Otherwise, would you be comfortable with the local winner of your neighborhood paint ball competition being appointed a Joint Chief of Staff over all the military?
Ms Meirs had no support , no base in fact and no competence for the position.
All those facts would draw me to the same conclusion regardless of pundit positions, no matter how many spouted them.
Am I an expert. Nope not by a long shot. But I do recognize the abilities of independent analysis just on the merits (not the pundits) of the actual qualifications of judicial nominees.
Lighten up AJ. You’ve made it clear that you’d like the bill to be better and while you may disagree with their methods the critics are doing just that – making the bill better. Sure certain ones sound extreme at various points on various subjects, but lumping them all together as being one and the same is not fair, they’re not the same.
You’ve been every bit as passionate in the past on any number of issues as some of the bill’s critics are now and I don’t remember any of them calling you names or refusing to caucus with you when your strong view was in the vocal minority.
So pop a cold one and relax. This immigration bill is getting better the more we look at the details and the more we debate the merits. If the bill had made it through the Senate in regular order, the Repub team probably wouldn’t be at each other’s throats – just like the Dems want. So why give the enemy the satisfaction? Don’t settle so fast … Let’s make the bill better and better yet…WORKABLE.
Terrye
Do you honestly believe Ms Meirs was as qualified for the position as John Roberts, if so why?
Crazy,
I am lightening up. I too am fighting for the best solution. Let’s get it passed and add more later!
Merlin,
You are doing it again. You are ignoring the bile. This is why it get’s ugly. You tolerate way too much.
MerlinOS2,
You are normally at the top of your game but Miers is in the past. Why do conservatives feel the need to keep bringing up the past? Anyways, Roberts was appointed BEFORE Miers. It was Alito that followed her.
None of us knows what her decisions on certain issues would be, like on abortion. GW had a closer knowledge than any of us and I tend to think she may have surprised us.
If you want to focus on the past with SCOTUS appointments, how about Sandra O’Connor? In my opinion she was a disaster and her post bench comments in the press seem to uphold that belief with me. Like former POTUS should refrain from speaking out against a sitting one, so should former SCOTUS appointees. I guess like Carter, Clinton, O’Connor missed that.
AJ
Another point in Michelles article,or another I researched later, is that to become an immigration Judge, you need five years background as an immigration lawyer.
So you have to be a person who is trying to take the position to keep the illegals from being deported to become a person who determines if they are deported.
Sort of like the fox watching the hen house don’t you think?
Roonent1
Thanks for the praise, but it was only brought up and bloomed as a side issue that AJ addressed in his post.
After that it took on a life on it’s own.
Back to this lousy deceptive “Immigration Reform Bill.” If they would take the amnesty part out, (and it is amnesty. When you agree not to prosecute people for crimes it is amnesy. And entering our borders illegally, and overstaying you visa is a crime. ) the rest would probably be acceptable to the majority of us. We do not approve of, nor will we accept, rewarding people from other countries who have broken the law. when we aren’t allowed to break the law and get away with it. Just look at that poor Border Patrol guy who entered the wrong info on a form. When he realized the info was wrong he tried to amend the form and enter the right info. After he brought it to their attention, they decided to prosecute him for entering false info on a Govt. form. Now he is headed for jail.
We will send one of our own citizens to jail for making a mistake but we are supposed to accept amnesty and rewards for between 12 and 20 million foreigners who have broken far more serious laws than making a mistake when filling out a form.
Merlin:
My point is that I don’t know enough about the issue to make a judgment and unlike some people I am not afraid to say that.
And there was a process involved that was cut short because of the hissy fit and so Miers never even had a real chance to make a case for herself before a bunch of people sideswiped her.
Roberts and Alito seem to be up to the job and the same man nominated them.
I think there are a lot of people out here who are second guessing the judgment of people like Bush when they know just about as much about the Supreme Court justices, port terminals and immigration as Al Gore knows about global warming and climate science.
BTW, wasn’t Fred Thompson one of the people who helped Bush pick nominees?
You are doing it again. You are ignoring the bile. This is why it get’s ugly. You tolerate way too much.
Left by AJStrata on June 13th, 2007
No AJ, I realize the bile is there and will always be unless everyone joins hands and we become one party, one religion or non religion , or some generic melted down blob of nothingness.
That is why I call myself pragmatic. I may not in fact be due to my own biases on some issues and even dismissed of that by some. But each chance I have, that is the goal I try to reach.
momdear1,
only 23% want the ‘amnesty’ out. That is not a majority. It is a harmless minority. As I said – the truth is as you say it. It is the ‘amnesy’ the far right cannot swallow. All the rest is self delusional cover stories.
Since when has anybody argued against tougher laws and/or enforcement? AJ you’ve misread this thing the whole way through…and that’s not anybodies fault but your own. The problem with the previous bill (they are currently amending it as we speak trying to get it back on track and shore up some kind of public support for it) was that it was percieved by the public at large to be mainly focused on legalizing illegal aliens and keeping them working more than it was focused on “stopping” illegal immigration, securing our borders, etc. And most people viewed it as more of an alien rights bill than any kind of legal or otherwise “reform” bill. (even though it obviously has elements of both in it)
The point was…it got started on the wrong foot…and when they realized there was some resistance to the way it was being presented…they tried to call everybody bigots..etc..then tried to ram it down peoples throats. ANNNNNnnkkk. Wrong. Sorry.
The majority mainstream views on this…cuts across every demographic there is. We can’t help the fact that some people totally miscalculated and misread what was out there. It’s the general consensus of most Americans…that they don’t believe the previous version of the bill as it was presented would actually reduce illegal immigration (only 17% believed it actually would be effective in reducing illegal immigration and lead to the enforcment of our borders). People, for whatever reasons, didn’t buy the arguments that this bill already addressed their concerns. So, the Senators, having realized they are loosing the support of the American public in this…are now scrambling to make changes to this bill trying to find something that would garner wider support. So, all the chicken little…”if we don’t pass this bill…we are stuck with status-quo” was for naught. We “will” get a bill.
All of the information suggests that this bill will pass..when most Americans feel that their concerns are being listened to and they have more confidence that the bills provisions will reduce illegal immigration and secure our borders. The current measures they are taking (ie..putting more language and provisions in the bill to reflect that ….and taking care of some of the obvious loop-holes)….is to try and build confidence with “us”. And it is an obvious backtrack from their previous position of name calling and suggesting these issues are not important or were already somehow addressed in the bill.
Anyway..it will all take it’s course in due time. I don’t think you need to fret much about it.
Terrye
I may not know all the specifics of judicial choices, but I know by my view I prefer strict constructionist on the highest court in our land.
I know some judges have backgrounds in case law and jurisprudence that can be evaluated for that concept.
I rely on those competent enough to give informed opinion on an area that they have much more expertise than I do.
They have done the research and the homework to make their recommendations.
Now if I blindly accept them, then that’s on me.
But if I cross check them and look at a few of the legal opinions the recommended judges have weighed in on and it fits my comfort zone that they are giving me good data, then yes I can support their recommendations.
By the way I have complied some pictures and drawings from past immigration debates. It is depressing that much of this is the same
http://www.tigerdroppings.com/rant/messagetopic.asp?p=4790637
what’s so ironic is the fact that Harriet Miers no doubt played a huge part in the choosing of Roberts and Alito as USSC nominees
Merlin:
I am not talking about views, everyone has views, I am talking about a certain minority pitching a fit until they get what they want as if their views are the only ones that matter.
I am not saying that is you.
But the reaction to the Miers nomination was ridiculous and it hurt Republicans.
No Dc the problem is that there is a minority that refuses to compromise. I hope they can come up with a Senate bill these people will accept, but I am beginning to wonder if there is such a thing.
Right now Lou Dobbs is not telling Bush to give it a rest, and that does not sound like someone who is looking for a solution. And there are a lot of folks on the right like that.
Lou Dobbs is dangerous to the party. I know he is not a Republican but goodness people hang on his word. His views of trade and the markets at time scare the heck out of me
Great posts today, AJ, Terrye and Sally Vee! Many in the conservative movement (rinos!) have jumped the shark.
I can tell you this: I want to be like George W. Bush, not like a single talking head or radio talk show host. Not one.
Terrye
I think in the Meirs issue, the supposed amount of difference was amplified many times by the MSM megaphone that smelled blood on the water.
Quite frankly I believe the same thing is happening here right now on this issue.
You have those that support the bill, those that want to make it better if it is going to be the law of the land and rejectionists.
I think there are a small few but loud extremes and the MSM and many others are buying into or trying to sell the wedge issue of all this.
Also with good cause there are many who fit into the twice bit and thus untrusting gunshy based on past performance.
Sally Vee
In the end I wonder how many of thebig Conservative bloggers are being paid consulting fees to take the stances they do. That thought has crossed my minds
Merlin:
That may very well be true. I don’t doubt the media will take advantage of the situation.
I think the thing that has annoyed me the most is that we are in a war, our soldiers are out there risking their lives and there are people on the left who would like nothing better than to lose that war.
I expect the right to temper their statements and be careful about weakening a war time president. At least the Democrats have the excuse that they don’t really think there is a war to lose, but conservatives know better.
And they still pulled this stunt.
Biglsufan:
I have wondered the same thing. I have also wondered why they decided to have such a fit about it now.
I understand what Merlin says about being gunshy, but it has been obvious for years that our laws were not adequate to the situation and somehow these people managed to ignore it without an abundance of moral outrage.
I still think we are all to blame for this, just blaming the government is an easy to avoid responsibility. If the American people had really been interested in obeying these laws themselves, things would be different today.
Just to show how strange polls can be on this issue, this poll shows that 78% show support for legalization.
the polls that count are elections and in the last election it was the hardliners who lost. I think people are confused about the issue and while they react with skepticism when certain people out to kill a bill tell them that there are enforcement measures in the bill and it is all about shamnesty, they still want a solution.
And this polling data from gallup has something for everyone. It has a long view and there is a lot of information here.
If I read it correctly is said that 58% did not have enough real information to make a decision about the bill. Considering the level of debate that is not surprising. I am afraid there is more heat than light.
Since the term “illegal” has very little value to you and your followers, let me try a different tact, and hopefully avoid getting too personal.
AJ, I presume you have a very nice house in a very nice neighborhood. Do you have a fence around your house? Of course you don’t. Why would you want to stop anyone from illegally entering your property. If you do have a fence, you should be ashamed and tear it down immediately.
In regards to amnesty, its short sighted to think that we can assimilate 12+million new citizens (plus 5 relatives each ) into our country without having a significant negative impact. Our Congress has just passed a federal minimum wage increase from $5.15 to $7.25 an hour over the next two years. For those hiding in the shadows, there may be plenty of jobs available in today’s economy, but when cost of living skyrockets and the economy tanks, these former illegals will come out and shout “we are citizens” and we demand our RINO given rights to government services. A bloated entitlement and welfare roll creates bigger government. AJ, maybe you are into bigger government, but I certainly am not.
AJ, have you ever been to Santa Ana, California. Don’t send your wife here alone. I live here and I wouldn’t even recognize it from what it used to be if I had not watched its demise over the last 13 years. And you know about “reconquista?” Does that word have any meaning for you? Do you feel the same deep passion that the people who whisper that word feel? Do you believe, like they do, that it could really happen? Probably not where you live. Reconquista! Become familiar with it.
In any event, once the “Invasion USA” amnesty bill passes and when all of the bad things that your conservative opponents fear most come true, it will be too late for you and your like to say “I’m sorry, I was wrong.” AJ, I live here in a reality that is different from what most of the country sees.
Holy cannoli. You need to take a look at LSU’s link and see the political cartoons from late 1800s/early 1900s.
…Wasp magazine???
…so Catholics really took the brunt of our previous xenophobia outbreaks.
…lynching of 11 Italians …Republicans leading the restrictionist movement …phobias, conspiracy theories & terrible depictions ripped right out of today’s blogosphere and radio stations. Amazing stuff.
Go take a look – and be prepared for a bit of a shock:
http://www.tigerdroppings.com/rant/messagetopic.asp?p=4790637
Terrye, read the latest Gallop poll taken just this past June. It states that most Americans were not really following the immigration issue. Then, in just the next paragraph, it says that those polled who were asked if they were following the immigration closely or very closely, it found that an average of 60% were.
It contradicts it’s own statements.
SallyVee, perhaps you should apply for a job with Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton. After all, pandering to racism is big business and has lined their wallets quite fatly. If you think that this whole IL-legal immigation issue revolves around racism and bigotry, then you could help the poverty pimps convince people that the KKK is about to ride again and we are going to see black Americans hung from old oak trees. Your slogan could be “They did it once, they’re gonna do it again.”
Or, you could realize that for most of us, it is a matter of the rule of law and the sovereignty of our nation, not race.
UglyinLA, I live out here in San Diego and I know exactly what you’re talking about. I went on a motorcycle camping trip up to Big Sur and the Redwoods last weekend for four days. Sunday I came back down the 5 through LA and stopped in Santa Ana. Man, when you get off the freeway and get gas, it’s like you landed in a foreign country. Very few signs in english other than roadsigns. Nobody speaking english. Trash and filth everywhere. Homeless people, gangs, that all that is left. Shops all look like fly by night businesses in run down buildings with broken windows, grafitti everywhere. I saw a foreign meat market in a building that looked like it was bombed out. Really, I couldn’t even tell that it was actually open for business until I walked up and looked in the window. It was open and dirty as all hell. It’s real depressing.
It is a fact that part of this argument about the immigration situation is cultural. That much is true. But the very people who knock others for making that argument don’t live where the culture is changing so fast that it is destroying the very thing people come here to have. These people who live in the gang controlled barrios are not living the American Dream, they hide in their houses at night in fear of a bullet coming through the wall. Those of us who want that to stop are somehow bigots and don’t like brown people. There are many things I like about hispanic culture, there is very little I can tolerate about Mexican culture. It is oppressive and ugly.
You’re also very right about one thing, if these beltway clowns who live in pristine land were to have to move somewhere like Santa Ana, they would have a real hard change of attitude about this immigration situation right freakin now! Then they would say, I’m sorry, I didn’t know. But it is already too late for some places in LA. They will probably will not recover for many years. Once the mexican politicians got in, it was all over for them. Only choice for any sane person was to leave.
Retire – hate to turn down your career suggestion. But racism or bigotry or just the age-old desire to blame a “them” for a set of problems largely of our own making over a long period, is rampant across history and humanity. It has reared its head in this very debate, right here in America circa 2007. That’s my opinion and I didn’t invent it to annoy or alarm you. My slogan more accurately would be “they’ve done it many times before, and they’re fixin’ to do it again, but not without resistance from me, dammit.”
Please don’t take it personally if the shoe doesn’t fit. But also, please don’t suggest that I am imagining things. And you know what? Sovereignty is not holy here on planet earth. It does not trump or negate morality, or cause me to quake in its presence. It’s a big, important sounding word that can be used to shift the debate to a loftier sounding plane. But I reject the tactic because so much of this debate has been fought waaaaay below the belt, down and dirty — nothing noble or particularly well concealed about it. I’m not necessarily referring to you! But lots of people & orgs with various interests have been playing fast and loose with the facts and the insinuations for a long time now. I hope we can get past those tactics, but I can’t pretend I haven’t been deeply affected and my trust badly undermined.
Those political drawings are remarkable and fascinating on many levels. They tell a story we can learn from. And they make Al & Jesse seem rather tame by comparison, as race baiters go. Just my take.
Sally…they are cartoons hun.
I’ve got some great Far Sides.
Oh well. The US (like any other country) has had the capability to control the numbers of immigrants from any given country that come here per year, etc. We’ve completely lost control of that. They just come here whenever..how ever..etc. Beyond that, the cartoons you’ve linked to..were about “legal” immigration issues….not illegal ones.
Yes…I suspect most people would prefer people come here through the “front” door. Some have tried to make argument that this new bill …will somehow change all the past efforts which were dumped shortly after they were passed by some of the same people who now currently hawk this bill. Most people aren’t buying it. Most people seem to think the last version of the bill would in fact make things even worse. Arguments were made on both sides..but it wasn’t “our” side that stopped that debate….it was yours. They tried to cut off debate on it…and ram it through and it failed.
The current bill could go forward. We dont’ know yet. The senators (DNC and RNC) are scampering to try and salvage it by adding in provisions, etc..to address tthese concerns and bring the bill back out at a tough on immigration policy ..as opposed to an illegals legalization bill..that has some “compromise” provisions that strengthen current laws to help cut some red tape out of the current laws we aren’t enforcing (from last time we had this debate). It’s also true that most people out here..understand who it was that cut off debate on this bill and sought to kill any futher changes to it. (it wasn’t us).
So, anyway…as I said…it will all take care of itself. It’s all part of the democratic processes of give and take to reach consensus. That apparently is not acceptable to some people. But it will just have to do (smile)
Uh, political cartoons, dear. Very much akin to today’s dominant political blogosphere & talk radio sphere… rife with extremes, conspiracy theories, and propaganda.
I don’t recall Gary Larsen drawing cartoons that did anything but make me laugh. (He is still my all-time favorite… “Suffering from low self esteem, Bob took a job as a speed bump.”)
Yes…Bullshit….in otherwords.
My fav Gary Larson was a two pager: one the left page was a Terrets syndrome clinic. On the right page..was a pet shop…with a sign that said…Parrots on sale…half price.
Yes, bullshit! Point! (Dang it, you remind me of my husband right now.) But but but! it’s B.S. that has managed to pollute the airwaves and the debate to an alarming extent, and in this case it also misrepresents my party to a future constituency I want to recruit, not repel.
Recall then, the silly cartoons reflected actual enacted policy like Chinese exclusion laws… the unofficial war against the Irish/Catholics… the little chapter called Black slavery and later the rounding up of Japanese. So pardon me if I think it’s important to point out the B.S., now. I think it’s disingenuous to think we have somehow evolved beyond the possibility of repeating our mistakes. At the point in time I am convinced the few are on the retreat, I will be happy/relieved/thrilled to let it go. I’ll revert to my usual cheery, optimistic, benefit-of-the-doubt giving self. Deal?
As for your other points DC, you’re persuasive. Keep talking. I very badly want to move beyond this log jam. And I admit I am beginning to relax… just a little.