Recall then, the silly cartoons reflected actual enacted policy like Chinese exclusion laws… the unofficial war against the Irish/Catholics… the little chapter called Black slavery and later the rounding up of Japanese. So pardon me if I think it’s important to point out the B.S., now. I think it’s disingenuous to think we have somehow evolved beyond the possibility of repeating our mistakes. At the point in time I am convinced the few are on the retreat, I will be happy/relieved/thrilled to let it go. I’ll revert to my usual cheery, optimistic, benefit-of-the-doubt giving self. Deal?

As for your other points DC, you’re persuasive. Keep talking. I very badly want to move beyond this log jam. And I admit I am beginning to relax… just a little.

I don’t recall Gary Larsen drawing cartoons that did anything but make me laugh. (He is still my all-time favorite… “Suffering from low self esteem, Bob took a job as a speed bump.”)

I’ve got some great Far Sides.

Oh well. The US (like any other country) has had the capability to control the numbers of immigrants from any given country that come here per year, etc. We’ve completely lost control of that. They just come here whenever..how ever..etc. Beyond that, the cartoons you’ve linked to..were about “legal” immigration issues….not illegal ones.

Yes…I suspect most people would prefer people come here through the “front” door. Some have tried to make argument that this new bill …will somehow change all the past efforts which were dumped shortly after they were passed by some of the same people who now currently hawk this bill. Most people aren’t buying it. Most people seem to think the last version of the bill would in fact make things even worse. Arguments were made on both sides..but it wasn’t “our” side that stopped that debate….it was yours. They tried to cut off debate on it…and ram it through and it failed.

The current bill could go forward. We dont’ know yet. The senators (DNC and RNC) are scampering to try and salvage it by adding in provisions, etc..to address tthese concerns and bring the bill back out at a tough on immigration policy ..as opposed to an illegals legalization bill..that has some “compromise” provisions that strengthen current laws to help cut some red tape out of the current laws we aren’t enforcing (from last time we had this debate). It’s also true that most people out here..understand who it was that cut off debate on this bill and sought to kill any futher changes to it. (it wasn’t us).

So, anyway…as I said…it will all take care of itself. It’s all part of the democratic processes of give and take to reach consensus. That apparently is not acceptable to some people. But it will just have to do (smile)

Please don’t take it personally if the shoe doesn’t fit. But also, please don’t suggest that I am imagining things. And you know what? Sovereignty is not holy here on planet earth. It does not trump or negate morality, or cause me to quake in its presence. It’s a big, important sounding word that can be used to shift the debate to a loftier sounding plane. But I reject the tactic because so much of this debate has been fought waaaaay below the belt, down and dirty — nothing noble or particularly well concealed about it. I’m not necessarily referring to you! But lots of people & orgs with various interests have been playing fast and loose with the facts and the insinuations for a long time now. I hope we can get past those tactics, but I can’t pretend I haven’t been deeply affected and my trust badly undermined.

Those political drawings are remarkable and fascinating on many levels. They tell a story we can learn from. And they make Al & Jesse seem rather tame by comparison, as race baiters go. Just my take.

It is a fact that part of this argument about the immigration situation is cultural. That much is true. But the very people who knock others for making that argument don’t live where the culture is changing so fast that it is destroying the very thing people come here to have. These people who live in the gang controlled barrios are not living the American Dream, they hide in their houses at night in fear of a bullet coming through the wall. Those of us who want that to stop are somehow bigots and don’t like brown people. There are many things I like about hispanic culture, there is very little I can tolerate about Mexican culture. It is oppressive and ugly.

You’re also very right about one thing, if these beltway clowns who live in pristine land were to have to move somewhere like Santa Ana, they would have a real hard change of attitude about this immigration situation right freakin now! Then they would say, I’m sorry, I didn’t know. But it is already too late for some places in LA. They will probably will not recover for many years. Once the mexican politicians got in, it was all over for them. Only choice for any sane person was to leave.

SallyVee, perhaps you should apply for a job with Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton. After all, pandering to racism is big business and has lined their wallets quite fatly. If you think that this whole IL-legal immigation issue revolves around racism and bigotry, then you could help the poverty pimps convince people that the KKK is about to ride again and we are going to see black Americans hung from old oak trees. Your slogan could be “They did it once, they’re gonna do it again.”
Or, you could realize that for most of us, it is a matter of the rule of law and the sovereignty of our nation, not race.

…Wasp magazine???

…so Catholics really took the brunt of our previous xenophobia outbreaks.

…lynching of 11 Italians …Republicans leading the restrictionist movement …phobias, conspiracy theories & terrible depictions ripped right out of today’s blogosphere and radio stations. Amazing stuff.

Go take a look – and be prepared for a bit of a shock:
http://www.tigerdroppings.com/rant/messagetopic.asp?p=4790637

AJ, I presume you have a very nice house in a very nice neighborhood. Do you have a fence around your house? Of course you don’t. Why would you want to stop anyone from illegally entering your property. If you do have a fence, you should be ashamed and tear it down immediately.

In regards to amnesty, its short sighted to think that we can assimilate 12+million new citizens (plus 5 relatives each ) into our country without having a significant negative impact. Our Congress has just passed a federal minimum wage increase from $5.15 to $7.25 an hour over the next two years. For those hiding in the shadows, there may be plenty of jobs available in today’s economy, but when cost of living skyrockets and the economy tanks, these former illegals will come out and shout “we are citizens” and we demand our RINO given rights to government services. A bloated entitlement and welfare roll creates bigger government. AJ, maybe you are into bigger government, but I certainly am not.

AJ, have you ever been to Santa Ana, California. Don’t send your wife here alone. I live here and I wouldn’t even recognize it from what it used to be if I had not watched its demise over the last 13 years. And you know about “reconquista?” Does that word have any meaning for you? Do you feel the same deep passion that the people who whisper that word feel? Do you believe, like they do, that it could really happen? Probably not where you live. Reconquista! Become familiar with it.

In any event, once the “Invasion USA” amnesty bill passes and when all of the bad things that your conservative opponents fear most come true, it will be too late for you and your like to say “I’m sorry, I was wrong.” AJ, I live here in a reality that is different from what most of the country sees.

If I read it correctly is said that 58% did not have enough real information to make a decision about the bill. Considering the level of debate that is not surprising. I am afraid there is more heat than light.

the polls that count are elections and in the last election it was the hardliners who lost. I think people are confused about the issue and while they react with skepticism when certain people out to kill a bill tell them that there are enforcement measures in the bill and it is all about shamnesty, they still want a solution.

I have wondered the same thing. I have also wondered why they decided to have such a fit about it now.

I understand what Merlin says about being gunshy, but it has been obvious for years that our laws were not adequate to the situation and somehow these people managed to ignore it without an abundance of moral outrage.

I still think we are all to blame for this, just blaming the government is an easy to avoid responsibility. If the American people had really been interested in obeying these laws themselves, things would be different today.

That may very well be true. I don’t doubt the media will take advantage of the situation.

I think the thing that has annoyed me the most is that we are in a war, our soldiers are out there risking their lives and there are people on the left who would like nothing better than to lose that war.

I expect the right to temper their statements and be careful about weakening a war time president. At least the Democrats have the excuse that they don’t really think there is a war to lose, but conservatives know better.

And they still pulled this stunt.

In the end I wonder how many of thebig Conservative bloggers are being paid consulting fees to take the stances they do. That thought has crossed my minds