Jun 15 2007
Immigration Bill Rises Like A Phoenix
The Immigration Bill, which this country needs to fix many (not all) of the problems with our current immigration situation, is making a return visit to the Senate next week.
Senate leaders announced plans Thursday night to revive the White House-backed measure as early as next week, although neither Majority Leader Harry Reid nor his GOP counterpart, Sen. Mitch McConnell of Kentucky, issued any predictions the bill ultimately would pass.
Instead, they issued a statement that said in its entirety: “We met this evening with several of the senators involved in the immigration bill negotiations. Based on that discussion, the immigration bill will return to the Senate floor after completion” of sweeping energy legislation that has occupied the Senate this week.
There was no immediate reaction from the bill’s numerous Senate critics, who have consistently attacked the legislation as conferring amnesty on the estimated 12 million illegal immigrants living in the country.
The amnesty-hypochondriacs do not have enough grass roots hate riled up to limit a process of fines, reparations and background checks to deal with the 12+ million immigrants who have been in this country for a long time. That element of the bill still garners support in the nation by 2-1. Sequencing doesn’t remove the support, priority doesn’t remove the support, pessimism on enforcement doesn’t remove the support. There will be a few sticks in the mud who will never get past the notion we will have all these immigrants in this nation of immigrants. And that they will go from illegal to legal – which removes their last lever to push deportation (either by force or coersion).
If the bill passes, what I will be looking for is all those glowing words about our democracy in action, and how the process of representative government works so well. Just like we heard when the bill was supposedly killed the other week. It is clear there is going to be the votes to get it past a filibuster – which means it should pass.
Senate Minority Whip Trent Lott, R-Miss., indicated earlier that he could produce enough GOP votes to clear the 60-vote threshold to get the bill back to the floor and push it to a final vote.
I should note that all Reps in the House and Senate need Bush for the rest of his term to support their legislative goals. And they will need his fundraising abilities in 2008 for all levels of government. So do not expect another whole sale sell-out of Bush. Clearly there are only a few in the GOP who are that self destructive over the immigration bill.
Of course, instead of the reasoned and honorable debate our great nation deserves, we could get more of this nonsense:
Bush is a thief. He is stealing our future!
He is killing the United States of America.
Bush is a traitor!
3 posted on 06/14/2007 10:23:22 PM PDT by GinaLolaB
Yes, count me into this number… Only the only acceptable solution to me is to deport them.
4 posted on 06/14/2007 10:23:54 PM PDT by babygene (Never look into the laser with your last good eye…)
Must have taken this poll in Los Angeles. I really don’t care if they come out with a poll that says 99.9% are in favor. They don’t have the right to force this on me.
17 posted on 06/14/2007 11:22:02 PM PDT by Razz Barry (Round’em up, send’em home.)
I really can’t imagine where they found these 1,000+ “citizens†who, allegedly provided input for this poll-—and I have to talk to folks all over the country every day. Not a soul I’ve had contact with has been in favor of these proposals!! Perhaps they polled “undocumented Americansâ€, aka “wetbacksâ€?
23 posted on 06/15/2007 1:25:28 AM PDT by singfreedom (“Victory at all costs,…….for without victory there is no survival.”–Churchill–that’s “Winston”)
Much more bile here. This is the amnesty-hypochondriac crowd at the core. They are so obsessed they do not recognize the right of the democratically elected government to do what the majority decides. This is the amnesty-hypochondriac crowd – who began back stabbing Bush over Dubai Ports and then demanded he respect their rants. I seriously doubt this is the thinking of most Americans. But we shall see. The vote will be sometime next week apparently so we shall find out soon enough.
Update: Could not resist offering this comment up to the ‘discussion’:
“Stuff like racist, bigot are soooooooo 20th century.
If loving my country means I don’t want to see it turned into a third world toilet then count me as a bigot. I will proudly wear the lable.35 posted on 06/14/2007 11:28:34 PM PDT by blackbart.223 (I live in Northern Nevada. Reid doesn’t represent me.)
When push comes to shove, and we are shoving on the amnesty-hypochondriacs, they face a choice. Stay with their principles or go with their paranoid fears. This fear of immigration is so strong with this crowd they will go, in large numbers, with their fear. BTW, I would like to point out to those shuddering in fear about this country’s future to look at their arguments again. Their claim is the 1980 real amnesty disaster and the subsequent years of lax law enforcement destroyed this country. It did not destroy it.
This country stood tall and strong in the world beating back many enemies, including Saddam Hussein. This country’s economy has been on a historic run. And conservatism WAS taking hold. The one hiccup was the last time many on the right through a fit and let Bill Clinton get elected. Since the mistake of 1980 (which I agreed now and then is a mistake) we have opened the world via the internet and changed humanity forever – for the better.
I am not buying the Chicken Little stories because the same BS was spouted in 1980. The end of the country is not coming, just the end of the far right’s hold on the conservative movement. These kinds of comments are the step too far the nation will not travel. The one thing I like BEST about this bill is the fact no temporary guest worker can become a US citizens for simply working here for a while. To me that is huge, and will do more to make sure those who do immigrate and become citizens do it for more than a paycheck. They will do it because they want to be Americans. As the amnesty hypochondriacs become more shrill and see more and more doom over the fact those here now will now be here and registered, their cause will also become more and more marginalized. If you cry ‘wolf’, you better make sure there is a wolf.
Hey AJ — I saw a phrase on Lucianne a few days ago that goes along nicely with the examples of angry nonsense you posted:
“Amnesty with fines.”
That was somebody’s idea of dismissing the idea of having illegals pay a fine. I can just imagine that phrase being expanded: “amnesty with jail time,” “amnesty with waiting periods,” “amnesty with deportation,” and who knows who else. Apparently an illegal can spend the next fifty years jumping through hoops trying to become a U.S. citizen, but if he entered this country illegally when he was in his twenties, and he finally gets to pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America once he’s almost too old to work, then that’s amnesty to some people.
Rising like a phoenix? More like that woman stalker at the end
of “Fatal Attraction”, I’d say.
Noting that the President’s approval rating is about 32% and
Congress is lower at 25%, I doubt the vote means much of
anything at all about the American People.
One side or the other is always claimg to have a mandate from
the electorate when the real situation is far more basic,
ranging from “I hate Bush” to “my parents voted Democrat”.
A few people get more interested and write blogs and stuff.
(or leave comments on blogs!!!)
There is a good arguement for the creation of a structure
to ask referenda questions, in situations where politicians
would otherwise claim to have some great mandate.
But here’s my bottom line,
This Bill Is Not Very Important.
There is so much going on in the world that is absolutely
red hot though flying under the radar screens of the mass media
that arguing about how we’re going to seal up the border a little
tiny bit or how many Mexicans we’re going to grant visas to will,
in my best opinion, seem far away and unimportant in a very
short period of time.
Events are going to overtake us soon, or as Bonnie Raitt put it,
There’s a fire burning towards them now, coming from a distant wood”. Iran means to fight a war with us and finish us off.
Most of the events we have seen in the last few months represent
two garnd strategys. The first is the encirclement of Israel,
Gaza falling to Hamas is the latest piece. The second is to buy
a little more time. Even clueless El-Baradei, head of the UN’s
IAEA, now says that the Iran weapons program is beyond the
point of no return. Iran’s President said that his signature
piece, the apocalyptical return of his “missing imam” would
occur in two years. His sect believes that it is the duty of men
to bring about the return by causing hell on earth beforehand.
He said that about a year ago.
So whether we have Fred or Hillary as our next President, we
are due for a large war with casulties on our own homeland.
So yeah, let’s keep all focused on the border, or on the mop-up
operations in Iraq.
Like Nero was reputed to say: “anbody got a fiddle?”
AJ – is there any chance this could get done before the July 4 recess?
Sooth,
Looks like it will. It really has to.
Again, AJ ignores the Rassmussun poll that belies what he says. It seems that AJ only quotes Rassmussen when he can spin it to fit his agenda.
To claim that the opposition to this bill is because of “grass roots hate” is probably the most arrogant statement that AJ has made. He now claims to know what is in the hearts of the majority of Americans who are against this bill. He fails to acknowledge that a person who is against this bill may be an employer who is honest and doesn’t violate federal law by hiring illegals but understands that he cannot continue to be an honest business owner and still complete against those who are not. Perhaps they are citizens who live in the war zone (on the border) and are tired of having their land destroyed, their homes broken into while they are at the grocery store and their cattle killed only to find them laying in the pastures with parts of them gone that have been cooked to feed those who have entered our nation illegally with nothing on them but the clothes on their backs. Perhaps they are people like AJ, himself, who objects to the apartments in their own neighborhoods housing 20 illegals in a one bedroom apartment or small house. Perhaps they are tired of seeing the destruction of pristine land, like the Pipe Organ National Park, where over 25 tons of water bottles, clothing, backpacks, food wrappers, needles and other trash has been left behind, depending on volunteers and the federal government to clean up the never ending trash left behind. Perhaps they are like me and attended the funerals of friends who have died at the hands of an illegal who not only crossed the border at will, carrying on his murderous rampage, but who also voted TWICE in a national election. Perhaps they are people who have watched their school taxes double in just a few years to pay for the education of children who cannot speak English causing the school system has to hire teachers who speak another language, bring in portable buildings, buy more school buses and have the budgets of school districts broke mid-year due to the extra expenses. And perhaps they themselves are immigrants or children of immigrants who entered our nation legally and are resentful that they went through all the legal hoops and expenses only to watch 12-20 million who didn’t, get a free pass for not having respect for the nation they entered. And perhaps they are like me and they understand that you cannot add 12-20 million low wage earners who will be eligible for social services like public housing, WIC, TANF, food stamps, AFDC and Earned Income Credit (which give a tax return check greater than the taxes paid in) without a) breaking the back of the economic structure or b) substantially increasing taxes.
These are AJ’s “grass root haters”. These are the Americans who see not only the front door of this bill, the the costs that will come in the back door. These are the Americans who realize that this is a redeux of ’86 and at the end of the day, the only part of this bill that will be enforced will the the amnesty clause.
AJ refers to illegal entry to the U.S. as no more than a traffic violation. He never mentions that when you get a driver’s licence, you must apply for it. You must present yourself, and your identity, in person to the DMV, take a test and have a “probationary” licence given to you while you wait for your “permanent” licence to arrive in the mail which gives the state ample time to do a “wants and warrants” search which believe me, includes a longer period than 24 hours. In my state, you must also provide a copy of you moter vehicle insurance and if you don’t own a vehicle, you must carry insurance that covers you no matter whose vehicle you drive. So it is clear, that someone must jump through more hoops in order to get a driver’s licence than 12-20 million illegals will have to jump through to get permanent residency.
We are to assume that the bulk of the 12-20 million are all law abiding people (never mind the fact that they have already broke the law) who will assimilate (a falacy), who will obey the rest of our laws (incarceration percentages show differently – compare the percentage of illegalls incarcerate to the percentage of our population as a whole) and be productive citizens. Nevermind that over 60% of those that will now be legal have less than a high school education. Never mind that in states like Texas there is no proof of citizenship required to register to vote. So you will have the problem that Bexar County (San Antonio) now has with thousands of illegals registered to vote because the only requirement is that you check a box that says you are a citizen of the U.S. and your voter registration card will be sent in the mail (thanks to Clinton and the MotorVoter Act). But these aliens, who had no respect for our laws when they entered illegally, would never lie on a voter registration form, would they?
The pro-illegal crowd (like Geraldo Rivera, Juan Williams, et al) will point to the thousands of businesses that have been started by illegals. Yet, not once will you hear them talk about the rising gang numbers, the high unwed mother rates or the disasterous high school drop out rates and if you do, they will indicate that those numbers are somehow the fault of the American government. You will hear them refer to the millions who entered through Ellis Island and other ports of entry during the 19th century but never will you hear them talk about how those immigrants were not eligible for social services, free medical care and how their children were not pampered by schools who provided classes in their native language. You will never hear how those immigrants had to have a medical exam, was held for days or weeks at the port of entry, and in the case of the Irish, had to have at least $200 American dollars to be granted entry. Those little “inconvenient truths” will be ignored by the pro-illegal bunch.
AJ quotes “Freepers”. But he ignores the comments made on left wing blog sites like Huffington Post and DailyKos. He ignores the vitriol on the left while he points a bony finger at the right. ‘
Calling those who oppose this bill (the majority of Americans and every Tejano I know) “grass roots haters” is no more honorable than those who call our President a traitor and a thief. And yes, one Freeper does have a point; the LA Times poll is not representative of the nation as a whole if it was only people in LA or California that were polled.
AJ wants this bill. He has [obviously] never read it, but he wants it. Why? Because it is good for America. Why is it good for America? Because it brings these people out of the shadows. Perhaps AJ should take a stroll down to the work centers in his own home town or go over to Home Depot. Are people who are sitting out in the open, accosting shoppers looking for a job, in the shadows? The answer is a loud and clear “NO”. If AJ were sincere about believing that this bill is good for America, he would list his reasons why, point by point.
R05,
And you don’t see this will pass if it comes up and the American process will have spoken. You want my reasons? I listed them in 100+ posts in this issue. The fact you ignore them speaks volumes which is wrong with the amnesty hypochondriacs.
retire05 ,
I just wanted to say two things:
1. That last post was absolutely brilliant. It spoke to me, my family, my friends, and my neighbors. Thank you.
2. I copied and pasted it into an email. My mother, already replied and said it was great. Thank You again. Your a true asset to this debate, and this Country.
AJ, If it weren’t so potentially serious and disastrous to the country, If this bill passes into law, I’d enjoy being around to see your children or your children’s children some years down the road look back in befuddlement at you and your allies of this immigration bill and wonder, “What were they thinking?” If this bill becomes law, mark my word, 10 or 20 years from now we will be debating another form of amnesty or the like. I don’t know what you really mean by hypochondriacs or any of the other names you call your otherwise ideological allies, but one fitting name your descendants will be justified in calling you is a “DAMN FOOL.”
The elitism comes out on the right. Here is a quote from a certain radical right immigration bill opponent. You can find the full context here….http://michellemalkin.com/archives/007728.htm
The quote is:
“No. You are the problem, Sen. Lott. You and your Republican colleagues more interested in sucking up to Ted Kennedy and Harry Reid than in protecting our borders and sovereignty.
Here’s Lott threatening the stalwart GOP senators who support enforcement first:
At some point, Mr. Lott said, Senate Republican leaders may try to rein in “younger guys who are huffing and puffing against the bill.â€
If the Republican Party had a brain, those “younger guys” would be in Senate GOP leadership positions, not the old huffers and puffers trying to sell us out.”
So all the immigration proponents on the right are doing is sucking up to Kennedy and Reid, huh? We don’t care about the country. We are all just walking around without a brain.
I am sick of the hissyfitters.
Senator Lott, Grahm, McConnell support John McCain for president. Do you think that has anything to do with it?
If the Republican Party had a brain, those “younger guys†would be in Senate GOP leadership positions, not the old huffers and puffers trying to sell us out.â€
I’d Agree. Sick of her “Hissy Fits?” Don’t read it then!
AJ, how did you adress any legitimate concerns some of us have on this issue? Do you consider name calling [immigration hypochondriacs], acusing us of blatant racism and ignoring the solid questions posed to you giving your reasons?
So I will pose some legitimate concerns [again] to you and you can address them:
how will the government process 12-20 million illegals when they can’t process standard passports for legal Americans who want to travel this year?
how will the government fund all the social services these “newly minted” legal residents will be eligible for?
what provision in the bill provides for prosecution of those who have stolen American citizens Social Security number and other forms of identification?
how will background checks be accomplished within 24 hours when it will often require requesting information from a foreign nation?
will it require background checks be requested from foreign nations?
does the bill require employers to verify Social Security numbers prior to hiring someone?
how will the government prove that the person was here on or before Treinte de Decembre, Dos cero cero seis?
Let’s see if you are willing to address just those few questions. I doubt it. Your past history, like that of administrations and congresses before, does not provide much hope.
Yeah, the Chicken Littles or State of Fear mongers (great book by Crichton, btw) may be approaching self-defeating territory if they keep up the non-stop screaming and dire predictions. At the very least they exhaust ordinary people, regardless of the merits of their arguments. Like I said, before I even had much of an opinion about immigration reform — last year when a bill came around the first time — my B.S. meter was getting a work out from the sheer metric tonnage of the emails/blogs/newsletters/radio rhetoric, etc.
In the last two days I received no less than 4 emails from NumbersUSA and two from Chris Simcox — he’s apparently having a HUGE rally in D.C. today & tomorrow and he sent me a personal invitation to attend and/or help fund his trip. Wonder if Malkin, Hannity, Limbaugh et al. are going to show up. Afterall, they’ve been promoting the heck out of the Minute People for well over a year.
Did you see where Trent Lott said today, “Talk radio is running America. We have to deal with that problem.†That’s not far off from the truth of the matter, and I have a feeling his remarks will resonate with more than a few people who’ve silently been thinking the same thing for a long time.
R05,
I have 100 posts on this matter and I am done discussing it with the nuts on the right calling for impeachment. Sorry, but since you folks lost your credibility you lost my interest. I don’t NEED to repeat what I have written. It your responsibility to go read it.
coffee260 – you are outta here. Comeback when you mature.
coffee260 – you are outta here. Comeback when you mature.
I must have touched a nerve!
So stevevvs on, since I am sick of hissyfitters like you, I should stop coming to this site? HA HA HA. Keep the intellectual retorts coming.
WOW! SallyVee is buying into the hype that the 80% of Americans who oppose this bill (according to Rasmussen) are screeching far right wingbats. It is comforting to know that Sally thinks that the majority of Americans don’t have the intellect of a common garden slug.
Wonder if Lott, who is rapidly losing his popularity in Mississippi, would like to also comment on the fact that George Soros is the driving force behind MoveOn.org and DailyKos, both who take funding from Soros? But then, maybe Sally is a Soros fan.
Talk radio is not driving America. Americans, as shown by the total disaster known as Air America, are driving talk radio (we all know it is conservative talk radio she is referring to). Sally, in her vast experience in the media, would be aware that without listeners, there would be no conservative talk radio. But she should’t worry; the left will bring back the Fairness Act to try to supress free speech.
Well, since Sally (an ardant AJ groupie) thinks that the 80% of Americans who know this bill is a Titanic waiting to happen are just dumbed down rubes who lack the intelligence to know what is good for their own neighborhoods, their own counties and their own states, that settles it.
We should just give up and submit to the “in the shadows” socialists like Teddy Kennedy who are soooo0 much smarter than we are. After all, Linsey Graham stated we are all “bigots” and declared that he was smarter than the people who elected him.
Fly your American flag unside down this weekend. It is a signal of distress.
Better yet, SallyVee, pick the crappy nation of your choice and fly that flag. We will have no nation left if left up to those of your ilk.
Madison, Jefferson, Franklin, Adams and Washington weeps.
As far as I am concerned, there is room for a difference of opinions on various issues. I have no problem with say Limbaugh, because in the end, he has addressed the immigration issue with good arguments and in a respectful non-elitist fashion.
But people like Coulter, Ingraham, Malkin, Hewitt, most of National Review and so on are losing credibility from non-radical cons, a constituency that is needed to maintain control of the Presidency and to regain the Congress. That is a sad. And this is why I appreciate AJ’s blog….for emphasizing this point.
R05,
SallyVee said no such thing. I think you may want to take a break. You have been doing nothing but making up insults about yourself and claiming other people made them.
Remember my points about the fantasies of the amnesty-hypochondriacs running around their heads?
Don’t insult the host. Now if you sign up again I will turn off the open registration so no one can sign up again.