Jun 15 2007
GOP Destroyed Either Way? Why Not Just Win Then?
I had pointed out that the amnesty-hypochondriacs (they swear they are not immigration hypochondriacs – fair enough) were destroying the GOP by claiming all common ground with Bush (one of the best conservative Presidents we have had in this country) and other conservatives (Kyl, Graham, Martinez, etc) is now gone. I said that their scortched GOP policy would make alliances with these people impossible in the future. Despite their diversionary excuses, what gauls them is the fact the bill is not harsh enough on the illegal immigrants who have been here for years and years. If that piece was out of the bill they would pass any piece of garbage through and declare victory.
Now, with news that the bill is coming back and should be passed, they have ratcheted up their poisonous talk against fellow conservatives (Bush especially) and are saying if the bill passes it is the end of the GOP! Take Michelle Malkin as an example:
Trent Lott and his ilk are on a suicide mission. Will they bring the GOP–and the country–down without a fight?
The cries of ‘wolf’ from the amnesty hypochondriacs is turning on deaf ears. People are getting fatigued by their endless panic and lashing out. As I said before, the bill passed in the 1980’s was screwed up, but did not end the United State of America. We have been a shining city on the hill since the 1980’s with a strong economy, strong defense, and what was a trend towards conservative values. Until the far right went too far. The cries of ‘wolf’ are not ratcheting up energy – they are creating a backlash and cries of ‘chill out’! Check out this piece by another moderate (i.e, calm and rationale) conservative:
There’s another factor that makes much of talk radio feel like an echo chamber, or the “amen corner,†with the same impassioned arguments deployed again and again and again (“What is it about illegal that you don’t understand?,†“If you reward people for breaking the law, you’ll only get more law-breaking,†“It’s unfair to all the patient legal immigrants to let the illegals cut to the front of the line,†“why don’t they just enforce the laws we have, before we make new laws†etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.) Each of the arguments against the bill can be answered, patiently and substantively, but it’s wearying to go through the same points repeatedly when people on all sides of the argument seem so unwilling to listen.
After several weeks of near hysteria, I believe that most Americans have begun to suffer (appropriately) from “immigration fatigue†– or even “immigration exhaustion.†Angry people let off steam by expressing their righteous wrath repeatedly. The rest of us begin to feel fatigued by all the indignation and apocalyptic talk.
The hyperventilating is getting old. The same old questions asked, answered and answers ignored demonstrates the futility of trying to reason with the unreasonable. But here is the kicker. If the GOP is doomed whether the bill passes or not, then why not pass it? I am not appeasing to the far right, I am simply pointing out if it is their way or the highway, then the highway it is. Either way the GOP is screwed we might as well get what we came for. If the far right is unwilling to bend, then there is no reason to bend anymore and just do the right thing. The amnesty hypochondriacs have played this badly despite pleas not to do so. But if they want a test then a test they shall have. When the bill passes and the world does not end and America is still the shining city on the hill we will know. We will know America is much stronger than many on the right give her credit for. And we will know why those who attack their allies fail in the long run.
It’s all about the almighty dollar.
AJ
My prediction, if the bill passes , is most will go for the zcard basic to enable work status.
Some will hide out still under the table because they know they will get hung up in the background checks and rejected.
Few will go for full citizenship.
They have been sending all that money home and all along their objective was to go home when they built up their nest egg to their satisfaction.
Some will not drag their family here, since the cost to do it will run against the grain of sending money home for that nest egg.
The fence may be built, but the total number of authorized to come through the front door will be well over half the number who cross the border without a fence.
The bill has had less impact analysis than the environmental impact statement required to build a new chicken plucking plant and no body seems to care or notice.
I listen to Michael Medved every day and I’ve never heard him CREAMED by anyone. The reason you hear people calling to challenge him on whatever subject, is because that’s who he ASKS to call. He would rather hear from those who disagree with him than those who agree with him. Not only does he like a challenge, it also makes for better radio listening.
Apache:
Did you read the myths vs facts section on the spp web site?
Yes. I did. And that isn’t the only thing at the spp.gov web site that I have read.
I like most of what is detailed in the SPP. And I like the idea of an outer ring of security that would encompass the entire North American continent. I think security in layers/depth is good strategy.
But what does the myth vs fact section have to do with what I posted? I don’t understand the reason for your question. Have you misunderstood what I wrote? Perhaps I wasn’t clear.
I pointed out that their big plan is for a ring of security around the entire continent. I also pointed out that the CFR report recommends the free flow of both products and people between the Countries.
A border, like the American people have in mind, goes contrary to the recommendations of the CFR. And if you take the time to read the CFR, you will see the President Bush is following those recommendations.
Their plan is for a free flow of people and commerce between the North American countries. That is the “prosperity” portion of “spp”. Their plan for security is to have one outer ring that encompasses the whole continent and relies heavily upon the cooperation of a whole bunch of federal agencies.
Their master plan does not include fences between the individual countries.
Was that more clear? I’m not always clear when I attempt to communicate. It’s been a problem of mine for years. I often lead the audience to the point and then just assume that they got the point. Consequently, I often forget to make the actual point. And of course, not everyone follows the logic through to its natural conclusion. It is bad habit of mine. My wife gives me grief about it all the time.
Apache:
Oh yeah right, it is all about the money, maybe you should become a socialist populist like Dorgan and put an end to capitalism. Oh, but then America is coming to an end. George Bush, who has risked poor poll numbers and a great deal of hate to protect this country from Islamists is supposedly part of a conspiracy to merge with Mexico, ad what is more people like Kyl are in on it.
I am so sick of people picking one thing out of a bill or a speech or whatever, taking it out of context, acting as if it is proof of all sorts of awful stuff.
There will be amendments, a house bill, a conference bill and in the end there should be consensus and chances are everyone will find something they don’t like. But it is better than just bitching and doing nothing but inventing conspiracy theories.
And what is this crap about Bush’s real intentions? Ever heard of NAFTA? Right now all of the lettuce in the United States is grown in Yuma county in Arizona, without some ag workers it will not be picked. Thanks to subsidized water California out produces Iowa and Nebraska in food production. That means jobs and tax money for the state, not to mention groceries.
We have a free flow of capitol and people etc with Canada right now. There is nothing evil about it. A free flow of people does not mean that there are no barriers at all. That is just absurd. We are not the Soviet Union for heavens sakes.
If I am supposed to believe that this is about merging Mexico and the US and ending America and replacing the dollar and all that crap then all you have accomplished with this post is to enter the realm of Rosie O’Donnel.
Merlin:
Oh yes, they do care about the chicken whatever plant. I know third generation farmers who have been zoned right out of existence.
The environmental impact studies will not stop the wall, but they take time to do and they will just be one more thing that has to be dealt with.
I think Apache has gone off the deep end.
I think a lot of the opposition is about money. They do not want to actually deport all these people, too expensive and the American people would not stand for it.
But they don’t want them legal either. Better to keep them a sort of peasant underclass they can revile at the same time they use their labor.
Apache, you posted:
Read that report and you will see that President Bush and Michael Chertoff are silently following the recommendations in that report.
What does that mean? How do President Bush and Chertoff do ANYTHING silently?
Apache:
Nevermind. I think you might be from the CFR, North American Union, Trilateral tin foil hat brigade. I have a neighbor that is a member of that brigade and it’s impossible to carry on a reasonable conversation with him.
On the same page as my last post, which appears stuck in the sp@m filter, check out this recommendation –
Move to full labor mobility between Canada and the United
States. To make companies based in North America as competitive
as possible in the global economy, Canada and the United States
should consider eliminating all remaining barriers to the ability of
their citizens to live and work in the other country. This free flow
of people would offer an important advantage to employers in both
countries by giving them rapid access to a larger pool of skilled labor,
and would enhance the well-being of individuals in both countries
by enabling them to move quickly to where their skills are needed.
In the long term, the two countries should work to extend this
policy to Mexico as well, though doing so will not be practical until
wage differentials between Mexico and its two North American
neighbors have diminished considerably.
Yeah well, they call it the North American FREE Trade Agreement for a reason. The FREE flow of trade.
Speaking of money, people like Michelle and Rush are making money off this. They keep it alive, feed it, and turn a profit off it.
Don’t think otherwise.
Maybe Michelle could put her money where her mouth is and run for office herself if she is so freaking qualified to run the country. She had Rush could share a ticket. But it would be a big comedown in pay, because I am sure that Rush outearns George Bush.
the fellow filling in for Hugh Hewitt (Dean Barnett?) is lying about what Senator Lott said. He didn’t threaten anyone. I think Senator Lott meant that supporters of the bill were going to have to do a better job at getting THEIR message out. Barnett said he’s threatening with The Fairness Doctrine. Quite a stretch.
For those who may not know – Senator Lott basically said that talk radio was running America and we will have to deal with that.
I took the WE to mean supporters of the bill.
Nevermind. I think you might be from the CFR, North American Union, Trilateral tin foil hat brigade. I have a neighbor that is a member of that brigade and it’s impossible to carry on a reasonable conversation with him.
How convenient for you. Lump me in a category of people that you consider impossible to communicate with, and *poof* debate over. I never mentioned anything at all about a mythical North American Union. I never mentioned a “Trilateral”. I don’t even know what a Trilateral is!
I did mention the CFR. The vice-chair of the report, Robert Pastor, has testified in front of the Senate on the issues and recommendations in that report. That seems kind of relevant, doesn’t it? You were aware that he testified before the Senate, weren’t you?
http://foreign.senate.gov/hearings/2005/hrg050609p.html
Here is a copy of his testimony –
http://foreign.senate.gov/testimony/2005/PastorTestimony050609.pdf
I pointed out that one of their main concerns is “prosperity”, which is the first “p” in spp.gov
You do know what spp.gov stands for, don’t you –
Security and Prosperity Partnership Of North America
I pointed out that the border the American people want to see is going to hinder the free flow of goods and people. Wow. What a mind bending revelation, no?
And apparently, those startling observations make me some sort of kook in your book. Shoot. I will so miss your witty banter. What will I do????
I’ll give Barnett or Burnett whatever his name is the benefit of the doubt and take back calling him a liar. Instead I will say he is misrepresenting what Senator Lott said.
I have been a member and supporter, both financially and as volunteer labor, of the Rep. Party since 1964. The leaders of the Rep Party know that people like me have nowhere to go because there is no posibility of our supporting the ultra left wing lunatic Dem. party which is blatantly antiAmerican. But we have told them we don’t like this stinking bill. If they insist on forcing us to swallow this ton of manure to get a few sugar pills , we are not likely to vote for the Dems. But we won’t support those who have betrayed us, and many of us will not bother to vote since it is becoming obvious that our vote doesn’t mean anything. They are going to do what they want to do whether we like it or not. It is looking more and more like there isn’t a dime’s worth of difference between the two parties when it comes to serving those they are supposed to represent. The Dems. are just more clever in tossing a few crumbs to thier dumbed down , organized groups of free loaders who know a Dem. vote insures a goodie paid for by the taxpayers. The Dems can shove it to their supporters and still get their votes because they know how to play to the masses. The Reps don’t even try .
A word of warning. People will take just so much before they rebel. After the Civil War, hoards of Yankee Scalawags and carpet baggers descended on the South and manipulated the former slaves who were elected to office because white men who had fought in the war were disenfranchised. State and local governments seized white owned property and and floated billions of dollars worth of bond issues for projects that were never built. Nobody knows what happened to the money, but few of the illiterate black elected officials had any of it. By the time the South escaped from the Reconstruction, SC alone owed over $50 billion on bugus bonds issued to pay for projects never started. When Southern whites discovered they had no recourse under the law, they formed the KKK which started as a vigilante committee to insure justice for the people who had lost all hope of government protection. Today, we already have “volunteers” patroling the border that our government refuses to close. It is just a matter of time before other groups are formed to take care of local problems created by hoards of illiterate illegal immigrants who have invaded neighborhoods, destroyed property values and overloaded our schools, hospitals and social services and imported their third world living conditi0ns and culture into our midst. When people can’t get justice, laws are not enforced , and they can see no other way, they will take the law into their own hands. I can see race riots in our future, not by minorities who think they are victims of discrimination, but by everyday Americans who see no other way to protect their families and property.
Don’t sell the American Public short. When they get mad enough. They will take things into their own hands. At least a large percentage of them will.
If we are going to get into the whole conspiracy thingee, I think we should look at the Democrats myself.
I mean why not?
The last time the right went out and had a fit about something, Bill Clinton ended up president.
And now we have people coming along and blaming a problem {that has been around for decades and largely ignored} on one president and one party. I mean we just had a presidential election not all that long ago and I don’t even remember it being an issue.
Maybe the ritght will put someone like Tancredo in Perot’s place and make Hillary president. After all, the vast right wing conspiracy always comes through for the Clintons. Kind of makes you wonder whose side they are on.
But now that we have decided that the big bad capitalists are force feeding Americans fresh produce and making them hire Mexican handymen as part of a vicious conspiracy to sell out Anglo America to brown natives from south of the border we just have to implode and hand the country to the likes of Hillary. I wonder if Michelle will like her ilk better than she likes Trent Lott’s.
I am fast losing respect for a lot of people in the course of this debate.
Four generations ago almost everyone who lived in the south west spoke Spanish, obviously those people were assimilated or we would never have thought of states like Nevada and New Mexico as part of the country in the first place.
And now here we are with people raving about the end of America and blaming it on Chertoff and Bush. That is just stupid.
This is not going to win the debate. It just makes people look and sound bizarre.
Really, I am supposed to believe that Bush and Chertoff and McConnel and Kyl are going to destroy America for what? Money? Puhleaze, if this gets passed and nothing like this happens a lot of people are going to look ridiculous.
Just like the global warming hysteria.
Is the CFR relevant and should we take notice of their opinions? You decide for yourself.
Notable current Council members of the CFR –
* Dick Cheney
* Jonothan S. Bush – George W. Bush’s First Cousin. [2]
* Fred Thompson
* Condoleezza Rice
* Paul Wolfowitz
* Robert M. Gates
* John D. Negroponte
* Leslie Gelb
* Colin Powell
* Alice Rivlin
* Madeleine Albright
* Zbigniew Brzezinski
* Henry Kissinger
* Jack Welch
* Alan Greenspan
* Paul Volcker
* Vernon Jordan
* John C. Whitehead
* George Soros
* Brent Scowcroft
* George Shultz
* James Woolsey
* Jimmy Carter
* Warren Christopher
* James D. Wolfensohn
* Steven Weinberg
* Edgar Bronfman
* Barbara Walters
* Lawrence Eagleburger
* Thomas Friedman
* Paul R. Krugman
* Peggy Dulany
* David Rockefeller, Jr.
* John D. Rockefeller, IV
* Ethan Bronner
* Warren Hoge
* Steve Brock (U.S. navy)
* Tom Brokaw (media, anchor)
* Bill Clinton (former U.S. President)
* John Edwards (politics)
* Roger W. Ferguson, Jr.
* Chris Heinz (politics, banking)
* John Kerry (politics)
* Stanley O’Neal (banking)
* Henry Paulson
* Charles Prince (banking)
* Karenna Gore Schiff
* Ron Silver (actor)
* Jonathan Soros
* Lesley Stahl (media)
* Adam Wolfensohn
* Robert Zoellick
* Angelina Jolie (UN Goodwill Ambassador)[39]
* Irving Kristol
* Mikhail Fridman
* Shirley Williams, Baroness Williams of Crosby
I suppose your right. Nobody of real importance there. It’s not like the Vice President of the United States, or the Secretary of State, or the Secretary of Defense, or any former US Presidents are members. It is just your basic bunch of nobodies. Nothing to see here. Move along.
Silly me. Thanks for setting me straight.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_on_Foreign_Relations#Notable_current_Council_members
When the Senate said that they did not want to go along with Kyoto because it would bankrupt the economy, the global warming people said they were sacrificing the environment for the all mighty dollar. The fact that millions of people would have lost their jobs and energy costs would have been high for everyone including the poor did not matter.
Now we have the right using the same kind of tactics to go after fellow conservatives.
As for Barnett, I have not paid any attention to Hugh for so long I really do not have any idea what they are blowing off about now.
From what I have read Senator Lott meant that people like him need to do a better job of competing with the raving loons on talk radio.
He did not call them raving loons, I did.