Jun 16 2007

New Immigration Poll – GOP Damaged

Published by at 6:53 am under All General Discussions,Illegal Immigration

Well, it would seem the goodwill of America has been poisoned by the relentless PR campaign of the amnesty hypochondriacs. We seem to have found the magic scapegoat for all our woes: illegal immigrants. A new WSJ Poll Shows a big drop off in support of the immigration plan dealing with illegals currently here (see here and here). But at a major price to the GOP (as predicted):

Now I would like to get your reaction to several parts of a possible new immigration bill. Please tell me whether you strongly favor, somewhat favor, somewhat oppose, or strongly oppose each of the following parts of this bill.

All immigrants who apply to be U.S. citizens would be required to learn English

Strongly Favor: 73
Somewhat Favor: 16
Somewhat Oppose: 6
Strongly Oppose: 4
Not Sure: 1

Fav/Opp: 89/10

Imposing new fines on businesses that hire illegal immigrants

Strongly Favor: 57
Somewhat Favor: 17
Somewhat Oppose: 11
Strongly Oppose: 12
Not Sure: 3

Fav/Opp: 74/23

Increasing border security by building a fence along part of the U.S. border with Mexico and by hiring and training more border patrol agents

Strongly Favor: 44
Somewhat Favor: 21
Somewhat Oppose: 12
Strongly Oppose: 19
Not Sure: 4

Fav/Opp: 65/31

Immigrants who want to come to the U.S. to work and who are not already here could apply for a two-year work visa that they could renew up to two times

Strongly Favor: 38
Somewhat Favor: 41
Somewhat Oppose: 6
Strongly Oppose: 12
Note sure: 3

Fav/Opp: 79/18

Allowing illegal workers who arrived in the U.S. to apply for permanent U.S. residency if they return to their home country within eight years and pay additional fines

Strongly Favor: 13
Somewhat Favor: 22
Somewhat Oppose: 20
Strongly Oppose: 35
Note Sure: 10

Fav/Opp: 35/55

Allowing illegal workers who arrived in the U.S. before January first of this year to receive an automatic work visa if they pay a fine of around five thousand dollars

Strongly Favor: 10
Somewhat Favor: 20
Somewhat Oppose: 18
Strongly Oppose: 46
Not sure: 6

Fav/Opp: 30/64

Of course, the real question on dealing with illegal immigrants is a fine, back taxes and a background check for a violent criminal record. But despite the misleading question the news is not good. The GOP, striving for something harsh enough to entice illegal aliens NOT to come forward and register with the government, are hell bent on retaining the status quo and all its problems. The whole point of fines and back taxes was to require a reaonable (by all other laws on our books) payment of debt to society but enough of an enticement so that these people come forward and get jobs that include all the required taxes so that they too pay their fair share. The problem is rounding up people will cost a lot more than some small set who get benefits.

But today’s GOP is not run on logic, it is run on hate. And it is paying a price:

Putting aside for a moment the question of who each party’s nominee might be, what is your preference for the outcome of the 2008 presidential election––that a Democrat be elected president or that a Republican be elected president? (IF “DEMOCRAT” OR “REPUBLICAN,” ASK:) And do you strongly prefer a (Democrat/Republican), or is your preference not that strong?

Democrat
Strongly: 42
Not Strongly: 10
Republican
Strongly 23
Not Strongly 8

Dem/Rep: 52/31
Strong Dem/Rep: 42/23

Almost 2-1 against the GOP. I would say that is a lot of damage when usually these numbers have a gap of only 5-10%, with the Reps down usually. The damage inflicted by the GOP on itself has been stunning. The Dems have inflicted damage on themselves too. People are ready to toss the Pols out and start fresh. The question on whether people support their own representative or want someone new is 40/48 in favor of someone new. That number is usually very high in support of incumbants (its always someone elses representative causing the trouble). But somehow the Dems are not as bad off as the Reps (though Congress is).

The fact is the damage to the GOP is done. And is it surprising? Again, all I have to do is sample the conservative blogs to show what kind of person represents the base:

And those that support this monstrosity will be looking for new jobs. The Senators that supported it will be next on the unemployment line.

Bush may go down in history as a traitor, but he won’t care, he’ll be living the high life in Paraguay.

3 posted on 06/16/2007 12:17:22 AM PDT by janetgreen

So this POS legislation proves beyond a shodow of a doubt that our government truly no longer serves by the consent of the governed.
According to the Founders, we now have the right to abolish said government.

You bring the guillotines, I’ll bring the pikes!

6 posted on 06/16/2007 12:23:12 AM PDT by FierceDraka (I’m not against the government. The government is against ME.)

“El Presidente will be having steaks on the grill each evening while the rest of us will be left wondering what the hell happened???”

We can wonder over that while we are spending hours in line waiting for our govt. cheese handout.

21 posted on 06/16/2007 2:01:55 AM PDT by Bogtrotter52 (Reading DU daily so you won’t hafta)

Peruse the insanity at will. Bush and Congress were duly elected and given the power to do what they think is right. People who disagree and then propose coup d’etat’s are not Americans. In fact I would not be surprised if the mob mentality gripping the right is not being stoked by people to help them in their credibility self-destruction. The funny thing is, the same Chicken Little cries resulted from the 1980’s bill and all the immigration that occurred has NOT destroyed this country. But the hate from the partisans has. They have lost all self control. And for those of us who have not lost our minds over documenting the undocumented workers here it is becoming uglier. And the sad thing is these haters who pretend that is the American way have lost all their perspective. It is now only ‘American’ to be like them.

The bill could pass, and it might be the right thing to do to get past this insanity. It is either pass it now and show the wingnuts the sky will not fall, or leave the entire mess in place for another 10-30 years. Because this issue is looking like a 3rd rail issue like Social Security reform. Thanks to the GOP we will could be stuck with the current mess for the foreseeable future. Either way, thanks to the GOP we are likely to be stuck with a Democrat President unless someone like Rudy Guiliani or Mitt Romney can hang on and win the primary. The problem is, the GOP may have distilled itself down to the point moderates do not participate at all.

Instead of learning the lesson of Pete Wilson in CA, and how long it took to get someone like Arnold Schwarzenneger to get the (R) back into a statewide office, we are probably seeing that mistake now being repeated on a national level. It was over illegal immigrants Wilson lost CA to the GOP for a decade. Sad, but true. We never learn our lessons of history. Bush better beat al-Qaeda in Iraq in the next year or the lesson of listening to partisans (left and right) will be a very, very painful one. People forget the comprehensive bill was designed to efficiently deal with immigration, minimizing law enforcement requirements and leave those for our war on terror. It was not meant to maximize punishment.

The bill was more enticement than punishment so we could optimize the resources between illegals and terrorists. We want the hay stack to come forward to make it easier to find the needles. The more who come forward the less effort required to deal with those we need to find who should be out of here. It is now way out of balance and the whole thing is going to leave us vulnerable. Not what the GOP wanted – but it is the price they were willing to pay to go after nannies and cooks and painters.

Update: A lot of readers keeping bringing up marginal details and asking me to address them as if they are important. They do not understand my position (though I have posted on it many times). The reason I am were I am is because of the priorities I have selected. I am not for maximizing the punishment of illegal aliens. What I am for is an efficient and rapid fix to our national security – thus I come down to a different set of conclusions.

The problem is the amnesty hypochondriacs think we have unlimited law enforcement resources or unlimited time to deal with the problem of illegal immigrants and who may be among them. In a world without al-Qaeda I would possibly agree.

But in a world with al-Qaeda my priorities are to rapidly separate the good from the bad and get the bad outta here before they go radical. Those who push this issue off until years later are allowing a dangerous criminal element to remain here and possibly be recruited by al-Qaeda. That is and has been my top concern.

The concept is one of triage, where you select what you can do to save what is salvageable. In my opinion we need to optimize our defense, not our punishment of illegals. We cannot focus on illegals at the expense of national security. So I am all for a path where we entice those who have not done anything seirously wrong and look to be law abiding to come forward and step aside. Once this is done we have made our national security problem orders of magnitude easier. Where to put our resources – nannies versus terrorists – it is a pretty basic question. With limited resources that is the choice. Worrying about silly things like touchbacks (more resources required we do not have) is just not worth the effort when you add up the problem and the resources we have to deal with the problem. Nannies or terrorists.

This has always been the basis of my equations – from day one. Maximize the transition of tolerable illegals to legal and monitored, while deporting the bad apples ASAP. Bad apples are potential terrorist recruits. When that is your driving strategy the bill makes total sense. When something else is your goal these priorities fall to the wayside.

Oh, and insulting and haranguing this subculture population so that the feel isolated and disrespected (like immigrants in Europe) only provides an excuse to finally give into terrorist overtures. Offering them to come into the open gives them one set of motivations. Offering them hate and punishment gives them another set of motivations. Cold, hard, unavoidable logic. Usually the best answer in a fight for your life. Leaving potential recruits for al-Qaeda on our streets is pretty dumb. Giving them excuse to sign up is suicidal.

There is no reason to wait on culling the 12 million illegals here into two camps: the relatively safe and the known problems (which are then deported). There is no rational excuse to delay this process of culling out those who cannot stay here any longer than possible. And what about insulting them, their families and their culture (e.g., 3rd world toilets) while you let them stay around longer? …… Needless to say I am woefully unimpressed with the GOP right now.

And I think it is this kind of logic that drives Bush and many conservative leaders. Unlike the armchair experts sitting at home behind a computer screen, our leaders see the daily security threats. So why would you go against your party and do something that spells political disaster? How hard is that one to figure out. You sacrifice what you must to protect the nation – including party. And no, they will not tell us if the telling opens up our national security secrets and defenses. I may be wrong – but at least I am erring on ‘the conservative side’.

136 responses so far

136 Responses to “New Immigration Poll – GOP Damaged”

  1. retire05 says:

    The WSJ article is unavailable unless you subscribe.
    The second link is a poll. What is interesting about the poll that AJ claims shows the trouble the Republican party is in reveals that of those who were polled, 35% were Republicans, 10% were independents and 49% considered themselves Democrats. The question that asks does ‘immigration’ help or hurt, two points 2) the question was about immigration, not ILlegal immigration and the split was almost even with 46% help and 44% hurts. Almost half of those polled said that the was a) a great deal of impact or b) quite a bit of impact caused by immigration.
    It would be unreasonable to think that a poll that is a full 14% heavily weighed by Democrats would favor Republicans or Republican candidates.
    What is surprising is the attitute toward the bill where the majority of repondents solidly against the bill.

    It always amazes me that we hear our politicians say that learning English should be required on a path to citizenship. Having a workable knowledge of speaking, reading and writing English is ALREADY a requirement for U.S. citizenship.

    What we learn from the poll (link #2) is that a majority of Americans are against the current legislation posed by the Senate. If you read the questions posed, that puts a lot of Democrats (and a majority of those polled) in the “immigration hypochondriac” bracket.

    But never fear, we have AJ to tell us that all those of us who opposed this travesty the Senate is trying to foist upon the American people, are just too stupid to understand that this is the best deal we can get. We are to believe that a people who put a man on the moon, built a war machine that was almost non-existant in 1940 and could create such marvels as the Hoover Dam can do no better when it comes to defending our borders, prosecuting greedy employers and preventing the uninvited from entering our nation.

    The bottom line? We are being told in an off handed way that if we don’t accept this backroom, secret deal created by someone who promised us both in 1966 and 1986 that new legislation would get a hold on the problem, the status quo will continue. What is the status quo? Ignoring the laws on the books and failure to enforce those laws.
    Yesterday I called my Senator’s office. I asked if it was true that the bill contained a provision that employers would not be able to verify the legality of a person’s Social Security number until AFTER they were hired. Answer “YES”. I asked if it was true that if an employers then learned an employer was using a fake or stolen SS# and fired them that the employee, who had committed fraud, would have the right to sue the employer for discrimination and an attorney would be provided for them by the Federal Government. Answer was “YES”. I asked if the employer did not fire the criminal that was using fake or stolen SS#s could they be held responsible by ICE and subject to violation of Federal law. The answer was “YES”. I finally ask if there was any amendment now in process that would eliminate that provision and was told “NO”.
    This was Senator Cornyn’s office and it was his Cheif of Staff that told me that. Senator Cornyn has been part of the bill from the onset and probably has as much knowledge about the bill as anyone, including those backroom dealers who wrote it.
    But it won’t matter because the minute this bill is signed, there will be NO ILLEGALS in this nation. All will be given “probationary” visas after 24 hours even if the background check is not complete.

    Maybe would should call this the “Put Employers Behind The Eight Ball, Degrading the Value of American Citizenship Bill”.

  2. smill1953 says:

    So, you think our only choice is between your amnesty and “rounding them up”? Unbelievable. All we’d have to do is come down hard on the employers and they’d self-select themselves right back to Mexico. Then we could decide how many “guest workers” are needed, and adjust immigration numbers accordingly. Your solution of legitimizing everyone who’s broken into the country is a really bad idea–it’ll only invite more of what we’re trying to fix! The “This Bill or Nothing” choice you keep tossing out there is a false choice.

  3. stevevvs says:

    retire05 ,

    Great post, once again.
    I had a couple questions that maybe someone knows the answers too:

    I see some people on the border object to a border fence on their property.
    I was wondering, would it not seem as though the U.S. Gov’t would actually own a few feet at least of the property directly on the Border itself?
    Can you actually own property right up to a border of Another Country?
    If you can and do, I would think that say 30 feet of the border land on the U.S. Side, across the U.S. Southern and Northern Border SHOULD be owned by the Gov’t.
    If ever there was a good case for Eminent Domain, would this not be it, rather than taking homes from people, only to build something to increase Gov’t Tax Base?
    And if people actually do own their land right up to the border, and the Fed’s don’t want to take a few feet of their land for National Security measures, I’m fine with not building a wall on their property. Give it one year after a wall is built where land owner want it, and where the gov’t owns the land and can build on it, and see what these land owners say then. Because then, these would be the Alien and Drug smugglers new routes to enter. Can you just imagine the absolute Hell these people would be going thru then?
    I think their position would change very quickly.
    I’ll try to check back later to see if anyone know the answers to those questions. They have been on my mind lately.

    Take Care Folks.
    Mac Ranger, and Cpt. Ed have some good posts today, as well as David Frum.

  4. stevevvs says:

    Owe, one more thing.
    You aught to find out how many Immigrants we let into the Country between 1924 and 1965. It was not many. My point is this. How in the world did we ever come out of a depression, Fight WWII, rebuild Europe, grow our economy, fight in Korea, fight in Vietnam, grow our industrial base (gone now, I know) all this without massive amounts of Legal Immigrants, nearly no Illegals, and nearly no guest workers? Amazing when you think about it!
    Take care, really behind schedule today.

  5. retire05 says:

    Stevevvs, yes, there are privately owned lands that go right up to the border. The reason for this [and I do not know about other states] is that there are NO federal lands in Texas. Land such as the Davy Crockett National Forest in East Texas is actually named that not because it is owned by the federal government but because it is MANAGED by the federal goverment. Ownership of the land still belongs to Texas.
    The Rio Grande is used for watering cattle in certain Texas counties. It is those ranchers who are objecting to the fence since water can, at times, be scarce. I have no problem with that. Eliminate the fence on their properties and when they find out that the flow of illegals are now destroying THEIR lands, they will not want the problems. It would also show us where the illegals are entering. Recently, a Kennedy County rancher found foot paths on his property with the trash that was left behind. He called ICE and eleven Chinese illegals were apprehended. During the search, ICE and Border Patrol also found a Koran and two Muslim prayer rugs. Also, there are large numbers of colonias (illegal settlements) and towns on the Texas border that are governed by Hispanics who a) are for illegal immigration and b) vote Democrat. Just as I referenced the town in Texas where the mayor [who doesn’t speak English and has been here over 20 years] and the city council who are entirely Hispanic have voted to make Spanish their offical language. This means that any American who doesn’t speak Spanish has to have a translator.

    AJ claims that our leaders see the daily threats to our nation. Has anyone heard of Teddy Kennedy making a trip down to the border? And how much of the problem does Kennedy see when flying to the heliport at Hyannisport or riding in his limo to get to the Kennedy compound? If John Kyl wants to see the horrors of illegal immigration, perhaps he could visit the cardboard settlement that is just north of Phoenix where people live worse than most in third world nations. These are people who make enough money to send their kids to private schools. When was the last time you heard of a Kennedy in a public school where their kids were the minority? Have you heard of Kennedy-Kyl-McCain meeting with the Border Patrol and listening to what the BP has to say? Obviously not since the Tucson Sector of the BP has come out and said that Kyl is not keeping his campaign promises after they backed him. So who do I believe, Kyl-McCain-Kennedy or the Border Patrol? Take a guess.

    Also remember, there is no provision in this bill to prosecute those who have stolen an American’s SS#. The provision for back taxes was removed by request of the president. And if you think that there will ever be fines up to $5,000 for the workers who are on the lowest rung of the wage scale, you don’t know the ACLU.

    Senator Cornyn’s office said that the bill, after amendments, could be upwards of 1,000 pages. That will be a judicial nightmare. And the “discrimination” provisions will tie the hands of ICE and the Border Patrol.

  6. Jacqui says:

    I thought only the MSM cherry-picked polls and colored their interpretation of the data with their own agenda….guess I was wrong.

  7. Dc says:

    It’s a poison pill…put in there..to scuttle this bill if things get to hot. BOTH sides voted for it.

  8. retire05 says:

    If you want to understand the administration’s position on illegal immigration the Tucson Sector of the BP has a new entry on Chief David Aguilar’s visit to them to discuss the problems in the BP.

    http://local2544.org

    Read the entry for 6-14-07. It in you will find reported that Aguilar, who works directly under Chernoff of DHS, told the BP that they are not to be “immigration officers” but rather should concentrate on terrorists and criminas. He also denys knowing of the David Sipes case [where a BP was prosecuted by an overzealous Johnny Sutton and had the verdict overturned] and where Aguilar had refused, though invited, to appear on Lou Dobbs.

    He also spoke of the “persuit” policy of the BP which is a joke.

    Read the whole thing and tell me how an organization where management does not back up the rank and file is going to recruite thousands of new officers.

  9. mrmeangenes says:

    I doubt EITHER party wants anything but the status quo.

    Both parties are POSTURING in an effort to capture the (legitimate) “Latino” vote – AND – to stifle the protests of those opposed to the status quo.

    The status quo benefits industry, which is able to avoid the problems of off-shoring, by hiring hard-working,relatively docile “temps”: “Just-in-Time” labor, if you will.

    This labor is keeping industry competitive, and industry is more than willing to bundle and finagle campaign donations to those who will make it possible.

  10. Dc says:

    Understanding that polling data is what it is and always subject to interpretation and change….I would just say..that this latest example of polling data on immigration issues/questions…yet AGAIN..does not support your analysis or argument on the issue.

    Given that most polling models are skewered in it’s sampling data DNC/Liberal…I would suggest to you that it’s even more strongly aligned against your analysis than the numbers would indicate. But, please…continue on.

  11. AJStrata says:

    Jacqui – I posted the full data and said the portion dealing with the 12 million here and now was losing support. Clearly I struck a nerve for you to lie about what I posted.

    Let’s be real clear here. If the solution does not, as soon as possible, help identify the bad guys then it is a non starter for me. If the solution has more punishment than enticement so that we have to use resources to contact the non-violent portion of this vast sub culture then it is a non starter.

    That us because I put national security above partisan wetdreams. That is why I am an independent and break with left and right. And yes, everyone who proposes the opposite are being short sighted and dangerous. It is cold hard logic – and it is correct. If the plan to get rid of potential recruits and find any cells hanging in their midst then we need the majority to step forward and aside so we can have a chance with the resources we have.

    Sorry to be so blunt, but those are my reasons for being were I am. I could care less if people understand or not. And I really don’t care if it hurts their feelings. On my list of priorities heart feelings is so far down the list from protecting us against terrorists it is not even funny.

    Sadly, nannies and cooks are a bigger threat in a lot of peoples minds. Now we all know better how we got to 9-11 with divisive apathy and upside down priorities. Good people made really bad decisions. Welcome to humanity.

  12. AJStrata says:

    smill,

    that is the most naive fantasy I have heard all day! Thanks for the laugh and restoring my confidence in my position. Why not just throw a penny in a fountain and wish them all away!

    Would do about as good. And you know what – your fantasy is not one of the options we have right now. That makes it double fiction!

  13. MerlinOS2 says:

    AJ

    Even the cherry picked data from the poll you referenced along with the equally cherry picked comments out of all the web both show how you are ignoring the rejection of the provisions of this bill are widespread and deep.

    Somehow you ignore the other data in the poll that clearly says this poll was overweighted with high income people who also proclaimed low or moderate impact to their communities due to the illegals in the country.

    Any poll that so differs from the actual profile makeup as can be well documented from BLS and Census Bureau statistics as to what the actual distributions are should suffer a quick and irrevocable death.

    You are projecting a position that quite frankly does not reflect reality.

    The disingenuous nanny v terrorist meme shows your colors here.

    I note your lack of admission of things like drug dealers, sex slavery traders, MS-13.

    Even your data from your own biased poll of choice shows fatal rejection of your premise.

    Other numbers in the crosstabs show how shallow the support for the bill is, but you choose to ignore them.

    There is very little for you to make your stand on both statistically from this poll and with the balance of the commentary available in the public domain.

    I could do a total fisk of this poll by balancing it against known profiles of repeated baseline data but why waste the time.

    I am only trying to look at this whole issue for it’s impacts and the wisdom of this approach.

    Perhaps more should do so.

  14. MerlinOS2 says:

    AJ

    The biased poll resulted in biased data.

    The important point is you made this one

    Almost 2-1 against the GOP. I would say that is a lot of damage when usually these numbers have a gap of only 5-10%, with the Reps down usually.

    Please find me any such an historic short term movement of this magnitude or even at the worst point of partisan differentials in our country that ever justified such a gap. It simply doesn’t exist.

  15. retire05 says:

    AJ, the “nannies and cooks” carnard is a non-starter. No one, right, left or in the middle is opposed to those who just want to work. But the nation is opposed to those who knowing broke the laws of our land because they have been told by their own nations [Mexico for one]that they have a “right” to enter our nation since Mexico doesn’t limit mobility for their citizens.

    But this bill, with it’s 24 hour provision for a background check, will not provide the type of information that shows the bad guys from the good guys. For one, we would have to have full information sharing between all 50 states, and within those states there would have to be full information sharing between cities and counties. That is not available at this time even though it has been almost six years since 9-11. And since many illegals use a number of aliases, how long does it take to do a FBI fingerprint check?
    Most illegals are guilty of two crimes; illegal entry into our nation and identity theft. The latest raid on the DelMonte plant revealed that 90 of the 140 some odd illegals were using stolen SS#s, some belonging to children who will now have their SS account messed up for the rest of their lives. I know you think I am over protective of my Social Security number but I am sure that if I stole you number and used it to ruin your credit rating, you would not take that crime lightly. And understandably so.
    This bill does little to provide for national security. Basically, it is a compromise in the fact that it provides big business with a steady supply of cheap labor (the Republican side) and a new crop of voters who come from socialist or semi-socialist nations that feel it is the goverment’s responsibility to provide for them (the Democratic side).
    And the loser will be the American taxpayer, the honest American employer and the American worker. Even Pew Hispanic Research Center found that the newest wave of illegals are driving down the wages of those already here. And what else did Pew find? That Hispanics, by tradition, vote 49% Democrat as opposed to 20% Republican. Why would that be when we hear so much about Hispanic values? Because low wage earners will always vote for the candidate that promises them the most free stuff.

    If this bill shows me that it will be strong on law enforcement, strong on background checks and strong on the border, I would consider it. I have no grudge against those trying to improve their lives. If this bill requires that all illegals do a “touch back” and enter legally, not putting them in front of the thousands who are waiting in their native lands for admission to the U.S., I would consider it. If this bill is tied to the worker requirements of our economy and forces employers to prove that they can’t find a legal citizen to do the work at a livable wage, I would consider it.
    But it doesn’t.

  16. MerlinOS2 says:

    AJ

    I don’t care what the parties are named, look at the history of this country and tell me just when we had the differential between two party support levels of two to one. Wake up and smell the roses. I think you would be hard pressed to find any comparable statistic in a democratically based country any where in the world.

    Party differentials in this country are like a bowling score average that like you point out are near single digit levels and a one or two point move causes panic and knashing of teeth and yet you quote a sudden jump overnight to a 2-1 gap without even questioning it.

  17. SallyVee says:

    A.J. you’ve pulled it all together with this analysis. I am chilled to the bone. You wrote:

    Bush better beat al-Qaeda in Iraq in the next year or the lesson of listening to partisans (left and right) will be a very, very painful one. People forget the comprehensive bill was designed to efficiently deal with immigration, minimizing law enforcement requirements and leave those for our war on terror. It was not meant to maximize punishment.

    The bill was more enticement than punishment so we could optimize the resources between illegals and terrorists. We want the hay stack to come forward to make it easier to find the needles. The more who come forward the less effort required to deal with those we need to find who should be out of here. It is now way out of balance and the whole thing is going to leave us vulnerable. Not what the GOP wanted – but it is the price they were willing to pay to go after nannies and cooks and painters.

    I wrote to a Republican friend yesterday evening:

    We may have already crossed the point of no return. And this thing will go on all summer long. I’m beginning to loathe (and fear!) conservative jihadis as much as I loathe Dem jihadis and Islamofascists. All three of which directly endanger my well being and appear to be working in concert to destroy the civilized world.

  18. MerlinOS2 says:

    AJ

    Perhaps this illustrates the issues even better than I can.

     

     

  19. stevevvs says:

    retire05,
    Thanks for clearing that up for me. I do remember a few ranchers with cattle drinking out of the Rio Grand now that you mention it. I honestly read about this at least 3 hours per day, which, at times, makes you forget some of what you’ve read!
    I’m ready for another Alien Book! Guess for now I’ll just keep reading Islamist books.

    As I mentioned the other day, the Charlotte Schools released the data on new enrolments for 2007. It’s hard for me to understand folks who think we should just Amnesty these people here now. Out of 5,222 new students enrolled this year, 2,660 are “Hispanic”. That is over 50%. At what point are Americans suppose to say this must stop!
    I wish we could find out how many are here Illegally. It has to be 90% of that figure, at least.

    And when you look at the birth rate in New Orleans being either 93 or 97% “Hispanic” ( I forget Which), all this blows my mind. How Could ANY Government in ANY Country allow this to occure?
    How long before I have to be fluent in Spanish to be able to communicate in my own Country?

    And my taxes on the City, County, and State level just keep rising to accomidate this tiny problem. Yesterday on my way to work, I passed by an Elementary School in Charlotte that has Portable Class Rooms that cover the entire front lawn of the school. In fact, you can no longer see the actual school building! It’s still there, but it is now hidden. Well, they had some more portable class room in the parking lot where the Busses park, ready to be assembled. When I saw that, all I could think is where are they going to put them? I guess in the back, where the Athletic areas are. Unfortunately, all the schools here look like this now.
    But hey, a massive Immigration Bill will certainly fix this.
    This total sell out of our Country sadens me deeply. I just wish we had enough Politicians at all levels who could see what Common low to mid income people like myself see in our daily lives. I guess I’m lucky, I don’t have any children to pass this tremendous burdon comming down the pike on too. For that, I guess I should be fortunate.
    Thanks Again for clearing that up. I need some lunch, the Truck and Busch races will be coming up. I love racing! It is my escape from
    this ever increasing madening world. See You later folks, enjoy your Saturday!

  20. SallyVee says:

    …and now a flock of pigs is flying over my house as I read and agree with every word of a NY Times editorial today:

    [SNIP] Keep a close eye this week on the amendments that make the short list for the coming debate. This will be the main opportunity for senators who were not involved in the “grand bargain” to shape — or eviscerate — the bill to their liking. Details were fluid into last night, but at least five of the possible amendments seem manifestly awful.

    Kay Bailey Hutchison has an amendment to send applicants for legalization on a “touchback” trip abroad before getting their Z visas, a new hurdle sure to discourage participation in the program. John Ensign would prevent those who paid into Social Security as illegal immigrants from ever getting that money back, and cut off their young children from death benefits. Norm Coleman would require that all state and local laws that forbid government employees to ask people’s immigration status be stricken before other provisions of the bill take effect. Christopher Bond would simply forbid holders of Z visas from ever getting green cards.

    And Lindsey Graham, who has spoken movingly about the need for reasonable, decent treatment of immigrants, especially immigrant families, has been trying to take the debate back to the dark days of Representative Jim Sensenbrenner’s anti-immigrant bill, with an amendment that would turn people who overstay their visas into criminals subject to minimum 60-day prison sentences.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/16/opinion/16sat1.html?_r=1&th&emc=th&oref=slogin