Jun 16 2007
New Immigration Poll – GOP Damaged
Well, it would seem the goodwill of America has been poisoned by the relentless PR campaign of the amnesty hypochondriacs. We seem to have found the magic scapegoat for all our woes: illegal immigrants. A new WSJ Poll Shows a big drop off in support of the immigration plan dealing with illegals currently here (see here and here). But at a major price to the GOP (as predicted):
Now I would like to get your reaction to several parts of a possible new immigration bill. Please tell me whether you strongly favor, somewhat favor, somewhat oppose, or strongly oppose each of the following parts of this bill.
All immigrants who apply to be U.S. citizens would be required to learn English
Strongly Favor: 73
Somewhat Favor: 16
Somewhat Oppose: 6
Strongly Oppose: 4
Not Sure: 1Fav/Opp: 89/10
Imposing new fines on businesses that hire illegal immigrants
Strongly Favor: 57
Somewhat Favor: 17
Somewhat Oppose: 11
Strongly Oppose: 12
Not Sure: 3Fav/Opp: 74/23
Increasing border security by building a fence along part of the U.S. border with Mexico and by hiring and training more border patrol agents
Strongly Favor: 44
Somewhat Favor: 21
Somewhat Oppose: 12
Strongly Oppose: 19
Not Sure: 4Fav/Opp: 65/31
Immigrants who want to come to the U.S. to work and who are not already here could apply for a two-year work visa that they could renew up to two times
Strongly Favor: 38
Somewhat Favor: 41
Somewhat Oppose: 6
Strongly Oppose: 12
Note sure: 3Fav/Opp: 79/18
Allowing illegal workers who arrived in the U.S. to apply for permanent U.S. residency if they return to their home country within eight years and pay additional fines
Strongly Favor: 13
Somewhat Favor: 22
Somewhat Oppose: 20
Strongly Oppose: 35
Note Sure: 10Fav/Opp: 35/55
Allowing illegal workers who arrived in the U.S. before January first of this year to receive an automatic work visa if they pay a fine of around five thousand dollars
Strongly Favor: 10
Somewhat Favor: 20
Somewhat Oppose: 18
Strongly Oppose: 46
Not sure: 6Fav/Opp: 30/64
Of course, the real question on dealing with illegal immigrants is a fine, back taxes and a background check for a violent criminal record. But despite the misleading question the news is not good. The GOP, striving for something harsh enough to entice illegal aliens NOT to come forward and register with the government, are hell bent on retaining the status quo and all its problems. The whole point of fines and back taxes was to require a reaonable (by all other laws on our books) payment of debt to society but enough of an enticement so that these people come forward and get jobs that include all the required taxes so that they too pay their fair share. The problem is rounding up people will cost a lot more than some small set who get benefits.
But today’s GOP is not run on logic, it is run on hate. And it is paying a price:
Putting aside for a moment the question of who each party’s nominee might be, what is your preference for the outcome of the 2008 presidential election––that a Democrat be elected president or that a Republican be elected president? (IF “DEMOCRAT” OR “REPUBLICAN,” ASK:) And do you strongly prefer a (Democrat/Republican), or is your preference not that strong?
Democrat
Strongly: 42
Not Strongly: 10
Republican
Strongly 23
Not Strongly 8Dem/Rep: 52/31
Strong Dem/Rep: 42/23
Almost 2-1 against the GOP. I would say that is a lot of damage when usually these numbers have a gap of only 5-10%, with the Reps down usually. The damage inflicted by the GOP on itself has been stunning. The Dems have inflicted damage on themselves too. People are ready to toss the Pols out and start fresh. The question on whether people support their own representative or want someone new is 40/48 in favor of someone new. That number is usually very high in support of incumbants (its always someone elses representative causing the trouble). But somehow the Dems are not as bad off as the Reps (though Congress is).
The fact is the damage to the GOP is done. And is it surprising? Again, all I have to do is sample the conservative blogs to show what kind of person represents the base:
And those that support this monstrosity will be looking for new jobs. The Senators that supported it will be next on the unemployment line.
Bush may go down in history as a traitor, but he won’t care, he’ll be living the high life in Paraguay.
3 posted on 06/16/2007 12:17:22 AM PDT by janetgreen
So this POS legislation proves beyond a shodow of a doubt that our government truly no longer serves by the consent of the governed.
According to the Founders, we now have the right to abolish said government.You bring the guillotines, I’ll bring the pikes!
6 posted on 06/16/2007 12:23:12 AM PDT by FierceDraka (I’m not against the government. The government is against ME.)
“El Presidente will be having steaks on the grill each evening while the rest of us will be left wondering what the hell happened???â€
We can wonder over that while we are spending hours in line waiting for our govt. cheese handout.
21 posted on 06/16/2007 2:01:55 AM PDT by Bogtrotter52 (Reading DU daily so you won’t hafta)
Peruse the insanity at will. Bush and Congress were duly elected and given the power to do what they think is right. People who disagree and then propose coup d’etat’s are not Americans. In fact I would not be surprised if the mob mentality gripping the right is not being stoked by people to help them in their credibility self-destruction. The funny thing is, the same Chicken Little cries resulted from the 1980’s bill and all the immigration that occurred has NOT destroyed this country. But the hate from the partisans has. They have lost all self control. And for those of us who have not lost our minds over documenting the undocumented workers here it is becoming uglier. And the sad thing is these haters who pretend that is the American way have lost all their perspective. It is now only ‘American’ to be like them.
The bill could pass, and it might be the right thing to do to get past this insanity. It is either pass it now and show the wingnuts the sky will not fall, or leave the entire mess in place for another 10-30 years. Because this issue is looking like a 3rd rail issue like Social Security reform. Thanks to the GOP we will could be stuck with the current mess for the foreseeable future. Either way, thanks to the GOP we are likely to be stuck with a Democrat President unless someone like Rudy Guiliani or Mitt Romney can hang on and win the primary. The problem is, the GOP may have distilled itself down to the point moderates do not participate at all.
Instead of learning the lesson of Pete Wilson in CA, and how long it took to get someone like Arnold Schwarzenneger to get the (R) back into a statewide office, we are probably seeing that mistake now being repeated on a national level. It was over illegal immigrants Wilson lost CA to the GOP for a decade. Sad, but true. We never learn our lessons of history. Bush better beat al-Qaeda in Iraq in the next year or the lesson of listening to partisans (left and right) will be a very, very painful one. People forget the comprehensive bill was designed to efficiently deal with immigration, minimizing law enforcement requirements and leave those for our war on terror. It was not meant to maximize punishment.
The bill was more enticement than punishment so we could optimize the resources between illegals and terrorists. We want the hay stack to come forward to make it easier to find the needles. The more who come forward the less effort required to deal with those we need to find who should be out of here. It is now way out of balance and the whole thing is going to leave us vulnerable. Not what the GOP wanted – but it is the price they were willing to pay to go after nannies and cooks and painters.
Update: A lot of readers keeping bringing up marginal details and asking me to address them as if they are important. They do not understand my position (though I have posted on it many times). The reason I am were I am is because of the priorities I have selected. I am not for maximizing the punishment of illegal aliens. What I am for is an efficient and rapid fix to our national security – thus I come down to a different set of conclusions.
The problem is the amnesty hypochondriacs think we have unlimited law enforcement resources or unlimited time to deal with the problem of illegal immigrants and who may be among them. In a world without al-Qaeda I would possibly agree.
But in a world with al-Qaeda my priorities are to rapidly separate the good from the bad and get the bad outta here before they go radical. Those who push this issue off until years later are allowing a dangerous criminal element to remain here and possibly be recruited by al-Qaeda. That is and has been my top concern.
The concept is one of triage, where you select what you can do to save what is salvageable. In my opinion we need to optimize our defense, not our punishment of illegals. We cannot focus on illegals at the expense of national security. So I am all for a path where we entice those who have not done anything seirously wrong and look to be law abiding to come forward and step aside. Once this is done we have made our national security problem orders of magnitude easier. Where to put our resources – nannies versus terrorists – it is a pretty basic question. With limited resources that is the choice. Worrying about silly things like touchbacks (more resources required we do not have) is just not worth the effort when you add up the problem and the resources we have to deal with the problem. Nannies or terrorists.
This has always been the basis of my equations – from day one. Maximize the transition of tolerable illegals to legal and monitored, while deporting the bad apples ASAP. Bad apples are potential terrorist recruits. When that is your driving strategy the bill makes total sense. When something else is your goal these priorities fall to the wayside.
Oh, and insulting and haranguing this subculture population so that the feel isolated and disrespected (like immigrants in Europe) only provides an excuse to finally give into terrorist overtures. Offering them to come into the open gives them one set of motivations. Offering them hate and punishment gives them another set of motivations. Cold, hard, unavoidable logic. Usually the best answer in a fight for your life. Leaving potential recruits for al-Qaeda on our streets is pretty dumb. Giving them excuse to sign up is suicidal.
There is no reason to wait on culling the 12 million illegals here into two camps: the relatively safe and the known problems (which are then deported). There is no rational excuse to delay this process of culling out those who cannot stay here any longer than possible. And what about insulting them, their families and their culture (e.g., 3rd world toilets) while you let them stay around longer? …… Needless to say I am woefully unimpressed with the GOP right now.
And I think it is this kind of logic that drives Bush and many conservative leaders. Unlike the armchair experts sitting at home behind a computer screen, our leaders see the daily security threats. So why would you go against your party and do something that spells political disaster? How hard is that one to figure out. You sacrifice what you must to protect the nation – including party. And no, they will not tell us if the telling opens up our national security secrets and defenses. I may be wrong – but at least I am erring on ‘the conservative side’.
This is the message that you are sending:
Unless a bill comes out of the Senate that gives you exactly what you want, the way you want it, when you want it and in the language you want, supported by the people who like and is presented in the manner you prefer and if the President says exactly what you want the way you want it said then maybe just maybe you will not accuse high ranking members of your own party with treason.
Maybe, but only if everyone kisses your ass of course.
And folks like owl, will just have to realize a new base is in town and it is his job to do some butt kissing too.
The fact that you can not win elections without the people you obviously hate and despise is just a detail. You will take a page from the nutroots playbook and you will not try to win votes so much as you will try to see to it that someone else loses votes.
hence the crap about Bush tending to his base, the shrieking ninnies who use fear and intimidation to get their way.
For instance, Bush took hell from people for saying the Minute Men were vigilantes, which they were of course. Vigil means to watch after all. But then again when it turned out that there were a few irregularities in the direct money scam they were running, it was crickets chirping over there.
No, this is not the Republican party I voted for. And where were you people a decade ago? Or even 7 years ago?
Sorry, but I smell a rat and the odor is coming from my hard right.
Ok folks here’s the game plan floating around the blogs on how Harry Reid is gonna game the bill when it comes back up.
Carefully note that the first step is to introdue a substitute bill that takes it back to square one and the amendments already passed are thus null and void.
UPDATE (Jack M.):Allah’s analysis is pretty close to what I understand the effect of Reid’s purported manuever to be. Here’s how I understand it to work:
Under Senate Rule XV, any Senator can ask that any amendment containing several parts be made subject to division. The person who decides whether the amendment can be divided will be the presiding officer: in this case whatever Democratic Senator is in the chair at the time, or VP Cheney if they think he might be needed to break a tie vote. The Senate as a body can appeal a ruling of “divisibility”, but it only needs a majority vote to be upheld.
Because Senator Reid is the Majority Leader, he has procedural powers that trump every other Senator’s in that he is privileged for recognition over any other Senator. Basically, it means he gets to go first. So what it sounds like he is going to do is offer the “Grand Compromise” as a Substitute and then make his own motion to divide his amendment into, say, 24 parts. The Dem Senator in the Chair will rule that the amendment is divisable and all of a sudden one amendment becomes 24 seperate amendments.
Why is this important? Because Amendments under division are AUTOMATICALLY considered one right after the other. No other amendments can be considered while the divided amendments are chugging along.
This means that you now have to consider 24 Amendments right off the bat. In a post-cloture environment, you only have 30 hours to consider amendments before a Roll Call Vote on the underlying bill must be held. Even if other Amendments are pending (and would normally be brought up for a vote), once the 30 hours time limit hits, those amendments are washed away as if they never existed.
So, the Net Effect will be that even if say Sessions or Demint filed an amendment, it could not come up any earlier than 25th. Since the clock will be running continuously while the individual divided amendments are being discussed, and even during the roll call votes, this means that not only will anti-Amnesty GOP Senators likely not see their amendments called up, but that DEMOCRATIC “poison pill amendments” (like Dorgan’s 5 year guest-worker sunset) won’t see the light of day either, unless it is still in the text of the new amendment language that Reid is making divisible.
I never saw this procedure used as a way to fill the Amendment tree or to run out the cloture clock in my time working in the Senate. I think it is an unprecedented use of division by the MAJORITY to do this.
No Terrye
Look at that underhanded tactic to shove through the grand compromise. That’s what you are smelling.
If I did not know better, I’d swear I was reading posts at the Free Republic! Lot’s of great stuff here!
Thought I’d pass on a couple short quotes from articles I ran across this morning:
Voter bill’s delay questioned
N.C. auditor urged Senate not to act on registration measure 30 minutes before vote
DAVID INGRAM
Among the audit’s early findings, disclosed Thursday, are 24,821 invalid driver’s license numbers and 380 people who appeared to have voted after their dates of death. N.C.
Ay, yes, My States current problems!
The U.S. House of Representatives shot down a proposal Friday by U.S. Rep. Trent Franks, R-Ariz, that would have built an 854-mile, double layered security fences along the Mexican border.
Franks noted that only 13 miles of a Mexican border fence approved last year have been built and that the fencing is needed to improve border security.
“With over 4,000 people crossing our southern border illegally every day, our border remains one of our country’s most critical national security vulnerabilities. In order to carry out an act of terrorism, a militant Islamist simply needs a porous border and a dangerous weapon,” said Franks in a statement.
2 more miles! At this rate, it should be completed in 2105!
Although Hispanics tend to vote for Democrats, President George W. Bush garnered 42 percent of their ballots in the 2004 election.
But 73 percent of Hispanics voted for Democratic candidates in November’s legislative election, which gave Bush’s foes control of Congress.
Republicans face an “enormous challenge” to gain Hispanic support, said Gabriel Escobar of Pew Hispanic Center, a research institution.
The Saga Continues…
Happy Fathers Day to all the Fathers out there!
At Free Republic there isa link to Debra Burlingame and Mark Levin that is very good. Look for it under “Aliens”
Here is the link:
http://www.911familiesforamerica.org/?p=324
Very Good!
Terrye: you just PROVED my points about you EXACTLY!
You HAVEN’T read the Bill
You DON’T have a clue what it contains
Your knowledge of this subject, is less than a 1st Grader’s
Your entire argument is based upon NOTHING; it’s just “my way or the highway”
You couldn’t articulate a position, if you’re life depended upon it
Your entire style, is hurl ad hominen attacks, and generalities, while continuously playing the “victim” card..
You are in FACT, CLUELESS!
There’s no need to post an answer, the above are FACTS, and you can’t debate them.
Basically, you’re a kid, and that’s being kind..
Apache…..I may be a loon but you have been a hate stirring liar.
I welcome ‘loon’.
You are attacking over and over but do not want it back. Fine. My original question, again……Did you vote for Bush? Once? Twice? Were you so uninformed that you did not at least suspect his position? And since when did the ‘base’……those holy know it all critters…….that only include the Pure of Anti-Mexican decide to rule the world?
Although Hispanics tend to vote for Democrats, President George W. Bush garnered 42 percent of their ballots in the 2004 election.
Yep. Gone. Pffffffttt. The damage was done by 2004. I ‘get it’. The Mex ‘get it’. The only ones that do not ‘get it’ are the stupids that think they will win another election. But they are Pure, doncha know?
Deliver me from the Purists and I don’t care if it’s on abortion to anti-Mex or anti-everything. Most people do not live in that sanctified air. Bush won 2000 because he was a likable good man. He is still a good man. I put him up there with my other favorite President (the only annointed Sainted one). Bush tried to do the right thing (as he, the duly elected one) saw it on every issue. It was not enough for the Sainted Pundits from every issue from Israel to Rummy. He actually had the gall to think some fresh blood that was not so ‘elite’ might be a good thing for a Supremes. Something for the common people. Pfffftttt.
Heck no. We have some rarified speechwriter that had worked for her and did not like her. Well…….take that Mr. President and the rest of us working stiffs. On and on with the jabs under the cover on each issue. So finally the St. Base decide they agree with the DIMS and the UN and that snake in the night Collin Powell/Armitage……..Bush is incompetent.
Give me a break. Seldom have so many snakes crawled out. But the driving force behind it all with their steady drumbeat has been that Bookwriter Malkin and the other Bimbo Pundits that have now graduated to MSM. Fine. Just quit lying about it.
We have had one of the best conservative Presidents ever and this is what he gets? A good man trying to do his best for the country. Much tougher times than Reagan regardless what the Sainted elitists say. Most of the insulting, sneering, elitists remarks I have read on so called conservative sites make me sick at my stomach. And I will repeat for those that never heard it…………George Bush Sr did not lose his second election……….his sickening BASE at that convention did that job. I know because I took a good look at them and said…….no way. So sue me.
Okay……..gone on another extended conservative vacation.
Well, I haven’t said much lately for a reason. I don’t care for name calling, so I just read and think. But after completely reviewing this thread this morning, here are my thoughts on some comments. Let me apologize if I miss naming someone that understands this issue, but it’s clear that in addition to me, R-05, Bikerken, Dale, Apache, Merlin, Stevevvs and a few others really understand this issue and it is clear that they are mostly corresponding with people that are not informed, will not discuss the actual provisions of the bill and are only interested in name-calling and one-upsmanship. I’ve cherry picked some comments that caught my eye, but many more did, especially from Terrye, but are just not worth commenting on. For one thing, she started out admitting she hadn’t read it, then she had, but only excerpts on “truth laid bare” (who has never had the actual bill on his site, only parts of it) and now considers herself an expert, but still won’t discuss the actual bill. Only what the lefties say about it.
AJ said:
Let’s be real clear here. If the solution does not, as soon as possible, help identify the bad guys then it is a non starter for me. If the solution has more punishment than enticement so that we have to use resources to contact the non-violent portion of this vast sub culture then it is a non starter.
But doesn’t mean it, if he did, it (the bill) would be a “non-starter”
and said:
That us because I put national security above partisan wetdreams.
And yes, everyone who proposes the opposite are being short sighted and dangerous. It is cold hard logic – and it is correct
And I will say that anyone that believes this bill will have ANY positive impact on national security is the victims of much wetdreaming.
and then Merlin said:
Left by MerlinOS2 on June 16th, 2007
and I can’t improve on what he said, so I won’t try.
and then Apache-IP said:
Left by apache_ip on June 16th, 2007
Excellent Apache.. I can hear the thugs, etc shouting out even now.
and then Terrye said:
Left by Terrye
Terrye, I can’t say it any better than your last three words: blah blah blah
except:“bad people like McCain or Graham or Lott or whatever….
We are Independents,” Question Terrye: didn’t those guys run as and claim to be Republicans?
and Terrye: ” Unlike most of the hardliners out there he actually won his election.” referring to Lindsay, but as a Republican, since he has moved over to illegal alien advocate and name caller extraordinaire (remember “bigots”) I doubt he will be winning any more.
and then DaleinAtlanta said:
DaleinAtlanta
Dale, you summed that up very nicely.
and then Bikerken said:
Bikerken
Bikerken, thanks for pointing that out, I had missed that little detail, so, keep up the good information.
and then smill1953 said:
Left by smill1953 on June 16th, 2007
Smill, while I haven’t read much from you previously, you sure have a grasp of this subject.
That’s it for now, keep up the good work guys. FE
Occasionally you read something someone says that says it so well, you wish you had thought of it yourself. In this case I’ve thought along these lines, but haven’t said it nearly as well as Mark Steyn, here is a snippet:
The bill is fundamentally a fraud. Its ”comprehensive solution” to illegal immigration is simply to flip all the illegals overnight into the legal category. Voila! Problem solved! There can be no more illegal immigrants because the Senate has simply abolished the category. Ingenious! For their next bipartisan trick, Congress will reduce the murder rate by recategorizing murderers as jaywalkers.
Didn’t he say that really well?
read the whole thing at:
http://www.suntimes.com/news/steyn/430569,CST-EDT-steyn17.article
Re: “Cultures have always mixed.”The Macker
Mostly not a good thing unless one likes to see devolution of the superior culture. Let in tens and tens of millions of Mexicans and America will cease being America.
Re: “psychologists are ‘making it up’ with IQ standards of ‘general intelligence.’ You seem to be using a bogus theory to underestimate an entire ethnic group.” The Macker
Ok, you don’t believe in IQ and that it has mainly a genetic basis. If you have an open mind, educate yourself on the subject and you may be surprised with what you learn. A place to start isHere and Here.
USA’s open border policy is likely to really change the country into just another third world basket case continued.
Re: “Cultures have always mixed.” The Macker
Mostly not a good thing unless one likes to see devolution of the superior culture. Let in tens and tens of millions of Mexicans and America will cease being America.
Re: “psychologists are ‘making it up’ with IQ standards of ‘general intelligence.’ You seem to be using a bogus theory to underestimate an entire ethnic group.” The Macker
Ok, you don’t believe in IQ and that it has mainly a genetic basis. If you have an open mind, educate yourself on the subject and you may be surprised with what you learn. A place to start isHere and Here.
Why Scientists Need Moral Code Of Ethics
New Immigration Poll – GOP Damaged
These two newest Posts on this Blog, it’s hard to believe that the same person wrote them. One of them, the first appears to be well thought out, uses the truth to attempt to prove the point, doesn’t attempt appeal to emotion to win readers over. All in all, an excellent post.
Then the second, totally the opposite. Uses polls that prove one thing in an attempt to prove completely opposite point.
Makes no attempt at all to use the details of the bill itself in a attempt to sway anyone, only name calling and appeals to emotion that “his” opinion is the “only” correct opinion anyone could possibly make.
Completely avoids what the bill will actually do by arguing that it will do the exact opposite. Claims that no other solution is even available. Wants to solve one problem “illegality” by just making all illegals legal in one fell swoop.
I’m not claiming these to be ‘quotes’ only what I read them to say.
Yes, I know the same person wrote them, but the same frame of mind did not.
To The Macker:
Re: “Cultures have always mixed.”The Macker
Mostly not a good thing unless one likes to see devolution of the superior culture. Let in tens and tens of millions of Mexicans and America will cease being America.
Re: “psychologists are ‘making it up’ with IQ standards of ‘general intelligence.’ You seem to be using a bogus theory to underestimate an entire ethnic group.” The Macker
Ok, you don’t believe in IQ and that it has mainly a genetic basis. If you have an open mind, educate yourself on the subject and you may be surprised with what you learn. A place to start isHere and Here.
Re: “Cultures have always mixed.”The Macker
Mostly not a good thing unless one likes to see devolution of the superior culture. Let in tens and tens of millions of Mexicans and America will cease being America.
Re: “psychologists are ‘making it up’ with IQ standards of ‘general intelligence.’ You seem to be using a bogus theory to underestimate an entire ethnic group.” The Macker
Ok, you don’t believe in IQ and that it has mainly a genetic basis. If you have an open mind, educate yourself on the subject and you may be surprised with what you learn. A place to start is and .
Try again!
Re: “Cultures have always mixed.”The Macker
Mostly not a good thing unless one likes to see devolution of the superior culture. Let in tens and tens of millions of Mexicans and America will cease being America.
Re: “psychologists are ‘making it up’ with IQ standards of ‘general intelligence.’ You seem to be using a bogus theory to underestimate an entire ethnic group.” The Macker
Ok, you don’t believe in IQ and that it has mainly a genetic basis. If you have an open mind, educate yourself on the subject and you may be surprised with what you learn. A place to start is
Here and Here .
Again, a try.
Re: “Cultures have always mixed.”The Macker
Mostly not a good thing unless one likes to see devolution of the superior culture. Let in tens and tens of millions of Mexicans and America will cease being America.
Re: “psychologists are ‘making it up’ with IQ standards of ‘general intelligence.’ You seem to be using a bogus theory to underestimate an entire ethnic group.” The Macker
Ok, you don’t believe in IQ and that it has mainly a genetic basis. If you have an open mind, educate yourself on the subject and you may be surprised with what you learn. A place to start is http://www.lrainc.com/swtaboo/late/cb_camb.html and http://www.douance.org/qi/brandbook.htm .
Re: “Cultures have always mixed.”The Macker
Mostly not a good thing unless one likes to see devolution of the superior culture. Let in tens and tens of millions of Mexicans and America will cease being America.
Re: “psychologists are ‘making it up’ with IQ standards of ‘general intelligence.’ You seem to be using a bogus theory to underestimate an entire ethnic group.” The Macker
Ok, you don’t believe in IQ and that it has mainly a genetic basis. If you have an open mind, educate yourself on the subject and you may be surprised with what you learn. A place to start is (http://www.lrainc.com/swtaboo/late/cb_camb.html“) and (http://www.douance.org/qi/brandbook.htm).
Another attempt to show references!
Re: “Cultures have always mixed.”The Macker
Mostly not a good thing unless one likes to see devolution of the superior culture. Let in tens and tens of millions of Mexicans and America will cease being America.
Re: “psychologists are ‘making it up’ with IQ standards of ‘general intelligence.’ You seem to be using a bogus theory to underestimate an entire ethnic group.” The Macker
Ok, you don’t believe in IQ and that it has mainly a genetic basis. If you have an open mind, educate yourself on the subject and you may be surprised with what you learn. A place to start is Here and Here.
References did not post in Atlantin’s last entry:
The two are: 1) “www.lrainc.com/swtaboo/late/cb_camb.html”
and,
2) “www.douance.org/qi/brandbook.htm”
Atlantin
References did not post in Atlantin’s last entry:
The two are: 1) “lrainc.com/swtaboo/late/cb_camb.html”
and,
2) “douance.org/qi/brandbook.htm”
Please place the prefix in front oneself.
Atlantin