Jun 18 2007
Catch-22 On Securing The Border
The far right is going full steam over the cliff of nativism. Oh well, it was a good ride while it lasted. So we might as well keep pointing out the illogic of their positions – just for fun. So, we noted how the real fear of the right is the legalization of the 12+ million illegal immigrants here now. Even though the amnesty hypochondriacs still cannot accept fines and back taxes and background checks as penalty enough for a paperwork crime, the fact is that is the fear that drives their resistance to this bill. All the diversionay worries are just rationalizations or cover so the country doesn’t become a ‘third world toilet’ as many classy people have eloquantly stated their hate. As we all know, if the bill did not deal with a path for those here illegally to move out of the shadows and become fully participating workers (pay all their wage taxes) then there would be no problem!
And the canard that we need to secure our borders first is a simple delaying tactic so the far right can stoke up more hate of aliens in general – which has been their bread-and-butter business for some time now. I have spoken to a lot of conservatives who work and live with immigrants and they all agree the GOP is headed for disaster. The hardest workers these business people have are immigrants. They have no way to validate the workers’ legal status, and legal status is a transient thing (most come legally and overstay). So when these people see their best workers being identified as illegal aliens (and being let go of course) they just shake their heads at the stupidity of it all. Everyone would prefer penalties and some process to keep their workers. It is the nativists who hope to ‘cleanse’ the country of the ‘diseased’.
So let’s remind these amnesty hypochondriacs that without dealing with the 12+ million people here we will NEVER know if we are securing the border! That’s right. You need some measure of whether the immigration is subsiding or increasing. And the only way to know for sure is to be able to measure who is in the system. And the only way to measure who is in the system is the get them INTO the system. So the far right have developed an impossible benchmark. We cannot determine success at the border until we can monitor the level of immigrants here now. Ooops! The hypochondriacs never thought of HOW to do what they fantasize. It is all so simple in their heads – it is amazing we ignoramouses who disagree cannot see the simplicity of it all!
These hypochondriacs are willing to leave the hard core criminal element amongst because they will not enact programs that entice the illegals to step forward. They are clear on that. They want so much punishment and hoops their Rube Goldberg Mouse Traps (i.e., the ‘touchback’ silliness) means we will not get a handle on who is here in the underground economy draining our public resources. Without the enticement no one steps forward. Without people stepping forward we cannot track and monitor them and give businesses the tamper proof ID and validation system to make sure everyone is on the up and up. And without people stepping forward we cannot cull out the really bad apples (those who do not have the new IDs). So they stay, and the far right insults their heritage and their culture. And al-Qaeda tries to recruit them.
And we sit here fat, dumb and happy on a powder keg – enshrined by the far right – with hard core criminals living in an underground culture with decades of experience going undetected inside our current FUBAR’d (but supposedly preferred?) system of broken laws. And these hard core criminals, instead of getting an expidited deportation, respond to the anger from the right with their own anger, which leads them to ponder dangerous actions to avenge their heritage and culture. And on the chance they meet someone from al-Qaeda who shares their hate of Americans…..
But this is the preferred solution. Keep telling yourself that. And don’t forget to click your heels three times! And remember – people who see this pending disaster are just not being realistic. And those crazy caricatures that people lable the right with will never actually stick. Never in a million years. How could they stick to the saviours of the free world? And of course, no amnesty hypochondriac would say this:
Given W’s untreatable Mexican fetish, it may be prudent to simply shove him out of Air Force One, swaddled in a golden parachute, somewhere over Mexico City.
Remember, the man is nearly 61 years old, and is obviously growing weary and older by the minute.
And why shouldn’t he be burned out?
After all, actively helping millions of illiterate peasants to invade America is hard work that would wear anyone out!
….
Some of use are not knee-jerk Bush-haters. We’re just wondering why he is obsessed with rewarding invading barbarians in ways that citizens and lawful immigrants don’t enjoy.
…
It is high time the VP do his duty under the constitution and replace our sick President. He tried to do well but the job was obviously too much for him and now he is being led and not leading.
And those leading him are destroying America.
Emphasis mine, hate from the hypochondriacs – who would now apparently support a coup d’etat right now. Never take advice from people so obsessed they not only figuratively turn on their allies, they ponder literally turning on them. Just a reminder, it was once ‘popular’ to own slaves and outlaw liquor and not give women the right to vote. All ideas once constitutional and part of America. For those who blindly follow laws and mob-popularity.
And I can’t find anything on the net about the revised bill either, or any proposed amendments. You think they want to keep it secret or something? I’m sure there’s nothing underhanded in that.
FE,
You missed the whole point on the white flight out of Europe. The article was posted to suggest the flight was due to immigration. You asked if I agreed Europe had a problem and I said the emmigration of native Europeans was due to socialism, not Moslem immigration.
Anecdotal evidence of voter fraud does not prove it is widespread.
In your roles as “legislative analysts” don’t forget to consider the law as- a- whole and other laws that might take precedence or be assumed.
Macker, so you’re a racist?
The socialism problem is caused by the immigrants with no income coming in to be supported by the natives paying increased taxes, it doesn’t matter what the race or ethnicity of the immigrants are if they don’t have a pot to piss in and the natives are gonna be supporting them. Do you blame the natives for moving to a country where they will be taxed less?
So the problem is socialism, caused by immigration (Moslem or not)
Anecdotal evidence of voter fraud does prove that there is voter fraud. Does proving whether it is wide spread make any difference. How many people elected illegally does it take to matter to you?
In our role as “legislative analysts” we should consider this bill as a ‘hole’ not as a whole. No other laws take precedence over this one, because they are not being enforced.
And I guess the English requirement would be about teaching them that English is our language and why they should know and understand that, but not actually learning and using the language?
Simply put, the United States is creating more jobs than people at this point. According to the Council of Economic Advisors, the U.S. creates about 1.8 million more jobs than people. We allow approximately 1 million legal immigrants per year, but only 5,000 permanent visas for low skilled workers for the entire country for the entire year. We allow another 350,000 or so temporary workers, many at the higher end of the skill continuum. That leaves a gap of about 500,000 more jobs than people plus legal immigration slots. Texas, Florida and North Carolina currently have the lowest levels of unemployment since they have been keeping records and are also among the states with the highest rates of immigration.
If you want control of immigration, the supply of legal immigration should come closer to the demand. That way we vet who is coming, who is leaving, and who is here. We could also adjust the legal level of immigration to the changing needs of the economy, as Sen. Kennedy originally proposed.
If you are not for a comprehensive immigration reform package moving forward, you apparently are for the status quo of 500,000 net undocumented immigrants per year, static border enforcement (rather than enhanced), and more American workers whose wages and bargaining position are undermined by the presence of workers without rights or bargaining power.
As for a policy of “attrition,†we set a record of more than 180,000 deportations last year, but still had a net 500,000 undocumented immigrants settling (and most gainfully employed) in the U.S. Even if no other undocumented immigrants come in (not bloody likely given economic demand for their labor and a multi-million dollar smuggling industry trained to meet that demand), it would take more than 66 years to eliminate the current population of undocumented immigrants.
The more practical, and by far the more politically popular in every party in every state, is to combine border and workplace security with a more realistic level of legal immigration and a policy to eliminate the population of undocumented immigrants in a way that recognizes that deporting 12 million immigrants is not likely or economically advisable.
Here is a great article; where is Ike when you need him?
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2007/06/flashback_immigration_fraud_an.html
Bottomline, this is an Enforcement issue, and President Bush, nor the Politicians in Congress, have NO intention of enforcement, ever; it’s just window dressing!
Drivlin:
Very well said and informative.
The “attrition through enforcement” concept — a phrase I recently heard for the first time from Michelle Malkin — is just plain creepy and to me lays bear some of the underlying “principles” and goals of those pathologically obsessed with purifying our population.
Sadly, Mitt Romney laid out the same idea in a WaPost interview a week or so ago. He sounded like a complete boob who hadn’t thought about what the concept actually entails in terms of resources, harrassing businesses, willfully causing pain to human beings, etc. for more than 30 seconds. I keep waiting to get swept up in the genius and leadership of the Romney juggernaut… so far, it feels like a 15 MPH mo-ped.
Drivlin “If you are not for a comprehensive immigration reform package moving forward, you apparently are for the status quo of 500,000 net undocumented immigrants per year, static border enforcement (rather than enhanced), and more American workers whose wages and bargaining position are undermined by the presence of workers without rights or bargaining power.”
Why not a guest worker program to deal with the number of workers issue? We passed a fence bill last year, why not comply with it?
Why does it have to be a “comprehensive” bill. Why do we have to legalize 12 million people to address a deficiency of workers issue?
Don’t you think the 30 million additional immigrants this bill would permit over the next 10 years would have a negative effect on workers bargaining power?
“The more practical, and by far the more politically popular in every party in every state, is to combine border and workplace security with a more realistic level of legal immigration”
Where did you glean that little bit of info? Was that a personally conducted poll? would you like to share some more results for us?
Drivlin, whoa!!!!! did you check with AJ on this, according to him, we can’t deport undesirables without this comprehensive shamnesty bill, how did we deport 180,000 in one year with no legal mechanism?
“As for a policy of “attrition,†we set a record of more than 180,000 deportations last year,”
Blasphemy, I tell you..
So let’s remind these amnesty hypochondriacs that without dealing with the 12+ million people here we will NEVER know if we are securing the border! That’s right. You need some measure of whether the immigration is subsiding or increasing. And the only way to know for sure is to be able to measure who is in the system. And the only way to measure who is in the system is the get them INTO the system. So the far right have developed an impossible benchmark. We cannot determine success at the border until we can monitor the level of immigrants here now.
Sweetie, I can’t tell you whether or not you burned these particular pork chops unless I first look at all of the pork chops you previously cooked. Cause you know, without that prior knowledge, how can you possibly expect me to know whether or not these are actually burnt.
Is water wet on your planet, AJ?
The more you post on this, the more respect I lose for you. And considering the depth at which my respect for you has already sank, that’s really saying something. I truthfully didn’t think it was possible to lose even more respect for you, but on this point, you keep proving me wrong.
When they apply for a job, whose social security number are they using?
When they pay taxes, whose social security number are they using?
When they buy a new car, whose social security number are they using?
When they buy a home, whose social security number are they using?
I only hope that it is yours and not mine. Which is completely fair, because you are cool with that any way. Right?
I found a comment on Lucianne over the weekend that said …
What is wrong with you people????
Why do you go out some other blog and find the most nauseating thing you can find and post it here???? I just don’t get that. Should I turn around and go out find the ridiculous crap posted by some flaming loon at some other blog, which incidentally supports this bill, and then turn around and use what some loon wrote as ammo against your side????
What kind of childish behavior is that??? Talk about running from a debate!!
Since you can’t win the debate on fact and merit, you go find some crap that some loon said on some other blog and then drag it here AS IF IT IS RELEVANT OR MEANS SOMETHING.
News flash – What some loon on some other blog doesn’t mean squat!!
Stop running away from substantive arguments that are right here in front of you!! Be an adult. Enough with the childish antics. I feel like I am dealing with my 5 year old.
I found a comment on Lucianne over the weekend that said …
What is wrong with you people????
Why do you go out some other blog and find the most nauseating thing you can find and post it here???? I just don’t get that. Should I turn around and go out find the ridiculous crap posted by some flaming loon at some other blog, which incidentally supports this bill, and then turn around and use what some loon wrote as ammo against your side????
What kind of childish behavior is that??? Talk about running from a debate!!
Since you can’t win the debate on fact and merit, you go find some crap that some loon said on some other blog and then drag it here AS IF IT IS RELEVANT OR MEANS SOMETHING.
News flash – What some loon on some other blog says doesn’t mean squat!!
Stop running away from substantive arguments that are right here in front of you!! Be an adult. Enough with the childish antics. I feel like I am dealing with my 5 year old.
There is an excellent article by Quin Hilyer at the American Spectator that cites the utter deception of this big lie very well.
http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=11605
As I have said many times before, the one thing about the bill is the immediate amnesty, and yes it is amnesty. After that, everything else will fade away. It’s garbage, it is a big LIE. Once the amnesty is granted by Jorges signature, everything else can be totally disregarded and they still will have gotten everything they wanted. Because after that, there is no enforcing anything else. The proponents of this bill are not stupid, they know it is a big lie, but the fact is that they believe there should be no separations between countries and differences in citizenship. They spent to much time in their life listening to ‘Imagine’ and smoking pot and they really believe it can happen if we just all go along. These people are the worst kind of assholes on the face of the planet. They are the cowards, the appeasers, that ones that always think there is another way out of conflict instead of fighting and don’t realize that sometimes you just don’t have a choice. They think that us dumb racists rubes aren’t smart enough to see through the fact that they are giving away American citizenship rights to anybody who can drag their ass over the border. They are the kind of people who consitently kiss the ass of evil to avoid punching it in the nose. THEY ARE COWARDS OF THE WORST ORDER! They don’t have the guts to stand for anything because they have not been taught what a precious gift being an American is. This is where all of the vitriol and emotion comes into this argument. How dare you arrrogant lying assholes consistantly lie to our faces! They have even made statements on this blog about sovreignty being ‘overblown’ and called illegal invaders ‘American Citizens’. Then they try to back out of it when the insanity of those statements are exposed. They have not yet argued ONE DAMNED POINT of this bill in any kind of an intelligent lucid manner. They constantly say, we did that already and we’re not going to do it again! Hmmmm, must have been some real solid debate! They have never really answered any question,…..because they can’t. I don’t have any respect for any of them anymore. They are not mature adults, they don’t have the balls to support their positions, they are the epitomy of a coward! And I don’t believe for one damned second all the crap about, ‘I’ve always been a conservative BUT…….’. They don’t talk like conservatives, they don’t have any conservative point of view. If you just go by what you’re reading, you’d think you were reading the Socialist’s Tribune. I would have said Daily Kos or FDL, but if you have been reading them, THEY ARE ON THE SAME SIDE AS US on this bill!!!! That should tell you a lot.
The people who are supporting this bill are despicable American hating socialists who will stop at nothing to merge this country with Mexico because in their warped thinking, that will be better for all of us and we are just to stupid to see it now. They don’t see the quality of life falling like a rock for low income workers, they don’t see the violence and corruption that come when an area is totally taken over by Mexico, like Brownsville Tx, and you know what, they don’t care. Because it is not THEIR F**CKING NEIGHBORHOOD!!!!! That is what makes them so despicable. This country is supposed to be a team, those who only look at their immediate situation and say screw everyone else are no more American than Vincente Fox. If they pass this TREASONOUS bill, I say, support the movement to oust any congressman who voted for it. The house is already showing some guts to fight this.
By the way, to all of you geniuses who said that J.D. Hayworth was voted out of office because he was against ILLEGAL immigration, his successor voted FOR the bill to cut federal funding off to sanctuary cities! I told you he was defeated by a person who ran to the right of him on illegal immigration. What say you now???? Probably the usual, “sound of crickets chirping”
Bikerken has this to say about his fellow Americans and Conservatives:
“The people who are supporting this bill are despicable American hating socialists who will stop at nothing to merge this country with Mexico because in their warped thinking, that will be better for all of us and we are just to stupid to see it now.”
Actually, the only ones ‘hating’ are people like Bikerken who say things like this and are polluting the GOP with their simplistic, nativist paranoia. There are radicals in every group who expouse ludicrous things. Take Bikerken for example….
And no one is for sanctuary cities – even those American Hating Socialists like Bush and Kyl and McCain and AJStrata. So that means nothing relative to the Hayworth’s welcomed successor! Bring on the Amnesty, say Adios to the GOP. And yes, that was my punch in the nose to the kind of hate I cannot abide in America.
Apache,
You are kidding right? You think I want your respect? I want your side to lose this debate. Welcome to politics. I warned every one it would be brutal.
BTW Bikerken,
After that insanely silly argument of yours, I have immigrants all through my neighborhood. We have a huge population here in Herndon and some of the soccer teams my son plays against are all hispanic (we are constantly telling them to speak English). My son’s team is about 30% Hispanic. These are good boys. They are not crooks. They sat and watched Animaniacs with us in our car between games. They are good people. They are not trying to take over our country, they are trying to join it.
Your hate shows you only the minority of the immigrant population. We see the full spectrum, from the lost causes to the great new friends. You ignore all the good people who immigrated here and are just trying to make a living. So when we have a choice between some good people making a living and your insane hate – the choice is damn simple. BTW – don’t insult the host or you are outta here.
FE,
I never said there was no deportation. So your side has succumbed to lying about what others say now? Seems we must be winning then.
Strata, you don’t get it, I am not hating the people, I hate the situation, and the idiots who perpetuate it make me mad as hell. There is a difference in being angry at what people are doing and hating them just because of who they are, but that is usually the liberal tactic to twist any kind of dissent into personal hate. I know that it is too hard for you to comprehend, but it is not doing this country any good to sit by while another entire nation walks in and squats in our living room. You mention “all of the people who immigrated here just trying to make a living.” You left out one word – ILLEGALLY. See AJ, you seem to have no concept of this nation having the right to choose who comes here. I have said before that you were an open borders type and although you have denied it and mocked it, I still believe it. And you stated that after the 86 amnesty, the US did not deteriorate and descend into bullet ridden barrios. I have to take issue with that, much of it DID! Again, I can see why you support this bill, you don’t believe this country should be separate from Mexico, that is the bottom line. You’re not fooling anyone.
So go ahead and continue with your personal delusions that everyone is on your side.
AJ What?
I never said there was no deportation. So your side has succumbed to lying about what others say now? Seems we must be winning then.
You getting Alzheimer’s or something? Do I actually have to go back and pull up the 20 or so times you have said in the last 3 weeks that we can’t deport anyone without this bill?
Get real.