Jun 20 2007
Immigration Bill Opposition Grasping
I have to laugh at the kind of twisted logic that claims there are no laws on the books to pay back taxes as they apply to illegal immigrants. Check out this laugher:
“It’s a good advocacy poll,” Camarota said. “I don’t see any neutral questions in the poll. It seems those who designed it have very strong views on immigration and tried as hard as possible to get the results they wanted.”
Camarota said phrases such as “paying fines and back taxes, proving good moral character and learning English” in the question about legalizing illegal immigrants, are misleading.
“These are fun questions,” he said. “Since the Senate does not actually require back taxes be paid. It just says you have to show you paid taxes.”
ROTFLMAO! Who would think this makes sense? Yes, I know I am going to royally piss off a lot of conservatives but it is this kind of silliness that makes it easy for me to do it. We have tax laws. You have to pay your income tax. You DON’T NEED another law saying pay your taxes to make it a requirement for being allowed to stay in this country. The requirement is quite clear, they have to show they paid their taxes. And how do you do that? You provide tax returns. Duh! No tax returns or any liens from the IRS from tax returns you submitted means no go for staying here.
It is stunning grown people can find some fantasy world through some bizarre twisting of words,where the fact is the language is simply leveraging existing laws (which ALL legislation does so as to not undo existing laws). Way too funny! The more I hear from the hypochondriacs the more confident I am that Bush is right and all we are seeing is emotion run amok pretending to be thought-out policy positions. Proof of paying taxes IS the same things as requiring all back taxes being paid. It means getting the OK from the IRS – which is no easy thing. And I would wager that every mythical problem with the current bill is based on the same bizarre extrapolations from misleading interpretations of the Bill’s language.
Sue,
I am scary. Which is it always better to have me on your side than in the opposition. Reader2007 is correct. The amnesty hypochondriacs have used up their allotment of good will and patience. After the claims that people who oppose them are ‘traitors’ and “un-American”, after numerous times ignoring the points and arguments of the supporters, after all the whining we have pretty much decided to fight fire with fire.
Now we will make sure our side (which was a more encompassing ‘our’ before the hypochondriacs went off) wins.
Remember, this is just politics. Keeping reminding yourself how you folks were going to teach us Bush supporters and President Jorge a lesson!
LOL! Keep telling yourself the civil war that the far right started which has now seriously crippled the GOP was all a grand, ingenious PLAN! Yep. Keep telling yourselves this is what was best for America and the GOP and this will all work out in the end.
It won’t. But keep telling yourself that.
AJ: okay, I’ll take your clarification there; I was not sure exactly on that point.
I still want provisions in the bill fixed or strengthend, and I don’t think that makes me a “hypochondriac” nor a bad person for wanting that!
That is the thrust of your whole argument, which again, I find mindboggling, but hey, no one listened to me when they passed that Prescription Drug Bill fiasco either, and that has directly affected “seniors” like my parents, and all my uncles and aunts, and to a person, they HATE it!
Dozens of them; haven’t talked to one yet, that has said it’s helped them, made things easier, or even cheaper; in fact, for them all, it’s the opposite.
That was another bill that was rushed thru, in the name of “progress”, and it’s been anything but!
Dale,
I never once put you into the hypochondriac category. I used that to identify the dark side of the opposition. To my surprise a lot of people volunteered to join that grouping.
That was there decision. Of course strengthening the bill is good. I applauded all those measures. I applauded Tancredo on his sanctuary busting bill.
I am clearly not the enforcement hypochondriac many far right commenters have tried to make me out to be.
This issue must be dealt with this year. THE gop and Republicans are taking too much long term damage in the hispanic community and business community.
My plea is this to those that oppose the regularization of the illegals. You might win the battle but lose the war. This will no good if the take real damage around the hispanic vote and it starts going block. We shall enter the world of permanent minotrity status. God knows what will be passed then.
Politics is about compromise and coalition building. If people refuse to look long term then we are dead. That means the primary party that is for a strogn National Defense, Pro-Life causes, Business issues, etc will become a non factor. Something will arise to replace it but it will take years and it will be messy. We are at War and this cannot happen.
AJ: I actually had a conversation with a couple of ILLEGALS over the weekend.
I took the wife, tribe of daughters, and our mangy damn Beagle, to a park north of Atlanta on Saturday, for a bike ride! (Well, the family has bikes, I have none, so they get to ride, and I have to Run behind with that flee-bitten mutt!; it was a five-miler in the oppressive ATL afternoon heat, and then the family acts like they’re worn out when we get back!)
Anyway, when we got back to the car, we saw our Mexican neighbors from our apartment complex; great couple, here Legally, he’s an IT guy on a TN-1 Visa; we’ve known them for a couple of years; great people we socialize and have dinner together, they watch out kids, and we watch there’s, and the kids are all in school together.
Anyway, the Mexican gentleman had two other Mexican families with him; his friends, and they were clearly ILLEGAL!
So, it took about 3 seconds for them to bring up the “Bill”!
Needless to day, they wanted it passed right away!
Then they told me that “Bush” and “Republicans” were “no good”, because they were against the Bill!
So, I had to straighten them out on that; they seemed surprised when I told them that Bush actually supported the Bill!
I also told him that a lot of Republican Senators and Congressmen supported the Bill, and they acted surprised to hear that!
So, I asked them a couple of questions:
Which party, Democrat or Republican, freed the slaves during the Civil War?
They answered “Democrat”; I told them Republican and that Lincoln was a Republican, and they were shocked!
I asked them which party started the Ku Klux Klan, and they said “Republican”, and I told them “Democrat”, and they didn’t believe me, I also brought up Jim Crow, and the Democrats, and they seemed to think I was full of crap!
I brought up the Civil Rights Act, in ’65, and of course they said “Democrat”, and I said mainly “Republican”; and then I brought up Robert Byrd, Ku Klux Klan member, and they said he HAD to be a “Republican”, and they also didn’t believe me!
So then the one said, I think maybe we are not told good informations! And I think I like Republicans now; and I told him to tell all his buddies the TRUTH!
I also told him, it’s not that Republicans are against HIM, trying to get a better job, it’s that we’re just tired of OUR Government, lying to us, and not enforcing the border, and we’re tired of Kennedy and his BS.
They agreed that Kennedy was a liar and a fraud, they had no illusions there; and they actually said they were for “border enforcement” too; I think that was self-serving, they don’t want any MORE ILLEGALS here, so that was kind of funny!
I told them I don’t care if they all come here to get jobs, we need them, I just wanted them to come LEGALLY!
They agreed, they said they’d like to come Legally too, and were ready to pay whatever they had too; then one made the comment, what we have to pay, in this bill, is cheaper than paying the “smugglers”!
Anyway, I won’t say that TWO people can speak for 12 Million, or 20 million, but it was an interesting conversation anyhow!
And I think I did my part, by bringing Two potential votes to the Republican party!
“I am sure the reference to Bloomberg was to point out your surmized death of the Republican Party. ”
That’s what you get for being *sure* and attempting to read minds.
I believe *both* parties are going to die if they don’t get a clue. Right now they are both fairly retarded as far as I am concerned. Voters aligned with neither party is the fastest growing political demographic in the nation and currently are the majority of voters in states with large congressional delegations and electoral votes … like Texas.
Mark my words … the candidate that takes Texas will win the election in 2008.
Crosspatch, this should interest you:
http://www.perry06.com/blog/article/525
KXAN Austin is currently running a poll on presidential candidates.
Thompson leads Hillary by one point. Remember, Austin is the San Fransicko of the southwest and it strikes me odd that is a far left city such as Austin, Thompson has any lead over any Democrat.
I believe that Fred Thompson has great appeal to the center and his actions so far of rising above the early mudslinging has served him well. I also believe he has a strong following among “boomers” who have grown to know him through his appearances on the Paul Harvey show. He also would have strong appeal in the heartland where his no-nonsense clear and “salt of the earth” way of putting things can be understood.
I would support Fred for President.
Crosspatch, does that mean you support Thompson’s stand on this immigration bill?
Here is what I am prepared to say:
No one single issue is a make/break for me. I am more interested in general approach to problems. A president can’t make a law. In the overall course of things, a presidential candidate’s stand on any single issue is irrelevant as far as I am concerned. I am more concerned with a candidate’s philosophy on the role of government in general and the overall course things might take in the administration of the various departments.
I am also not expecting to ever see any legislation that I can say is 100% perfect in my criteria of what I consider perfection. I am prepared to accept some of what I don’t like if it gives a lot of what I do like. We can work in the other details at a later date. Legislation can always be amended later. My problem is what I consider to be ideological knuckleheads who will not settle for anything less than their version of utopia. It has to be perfect legislation with not a single point they are against or they are against the entire thing.
I will add a caveat to that. National security IS a make/break issue and the President is CinC of our military so that *is* an area where a candidate’s position can be a deal breaker. As for stands on other issues, for the most part those depend on Congress, not the President. As I said, a President can’t make a law.
What recourse do those of us in the central US who are paying for the emmergency room medical expenses and public services provided to illegal aliens or to control them? Can we sue border states for their failure to prevent illegal border crossings? What about cities, especially on the border, proclaiming themselves as a safe haven for those crossing the border illegally? What about liability for damages caused by those illegals, who are ofter criminal? –
Hogar,
Under the DO NOTHING NOW hypochondriac plan you have no recourse. If we get these people above board and paying taxes then we all see less drain (not zero drain) on our tax dollars. That is the new bill in the Senate. These people must have jobs to stay. That is the new bill in the senate. If we finally close the loopholes we can deport the criinals ASAP. That is the new bill in the Senate.
But if you like the mess we have over this then DO NOTHING NOW!
LOL!