Jun 20 2007
Administration Answers Immigration Critics With Brutal Reality
Ed Morrissey posts on one of the many conspiracy myth’s running around the GOP circles as they do their amnesty hypochondriac Chicken Little dance. This one had to do with how long it takes to process Z-Visas compared to passports (not EVEN the same thing) and the ridiculous myth background checks take time (having worked briefly on a design for the FBI’s modern fingerprint identification system I know this to be a myth personally). Here is the answer to the critics (for all the good it will do since the critics are not listening, they are running in full mob-induced panic):
I can see how, in order to score a quick point, it would be tempting to equate the passport backlog with the issue of Z visas.
However, you make a false analogy.Background checks are not a significant factor contributing to the current backlog in processing passport applications. Instead, the key reason for the delay is the non-automated and very labor-intensive process of verifying that the individual is indeed a U.S. citizen. Another major reason for the passport backlog is the time-consuming process for producing the passport itself, which requires an electronic chip, a machine readable strip, and other tamper-resistant features.
By contrast, adjudication of a Z visa application does not require verification of citizenship status because the individual acknowledges at the outset that he or she is illegal. And any delays due to production of the document, of course, are irrelevant to DHS’s ability to handle the background checks.
The background check at issue for the current undocumented is an automated process involving an electronically captured print that will be run through database checks.
I made this point many times. Bounced right off the redfaced foreheads of the hypochondriacs. They don’t understand the process or the systems, but damn they are expert geniuses when they need to be. Did it move Morrissey? Nope, he went to grasp another straw:
However, this isn’t quite responsive to the main thrust of my argument. It does address the issues surrounding the 24-hour background checks, but not the main point about allocation of resources and the instant creation of a new bureaucracy that will have to handle upwards of 12 million applications almost immediately.
Sorry, but as much as I like Ed Morrissey and I know he is the superior blogger, he is just making a silly point here. First off, the 12 million will not come in the door all at once on day one. Second, they will not need to be processed all at once, but the system has a huge capacity. Needless to say those that come forward initially will have little to fear from the background checks! I mean – Duh! The purpose is to get the haystack of good, reasonable people to come forward and step away from those bad needles we need to find and deport! So what if we wait a bit (and I mean a short time) to validate their own confidence they will pass the check? Geez, doesn’t anyone remember the purpose of this?
In addition, what is the alternative? Oh yea – no one steps forward and no one gets checked! We do nothing. So in a fit of a incredibly implausible scenario dreaming we see the reason to do nothing. But let me bring technical reality into the debate (and very few are going to argue a system I know about). IAFIS is the current finger printing system. Here is a capacity metric for it from last year:
While Congress initially mandated a capacity level for IAFIS of 62,500 matches daily, the system’s busiest day so far has reached the 100,000 level.
The architecture is a completely scalable parallel processing system which processes requests by sending them to a number of parallel processing core servers. Capacity is EASILY increased by simply adding more core processers AND by upgrading the existing ones to faster motherboards. But let’s do some math for the hypochondriacs on last year’s capacity numbers. At 100,000 submissions a day the 12 million submissions can be processed in 120 days. Yep. Less than three months. As I said, we know there will be a rush of people confident they can pass the check, but waiting three months do have them verified as crime-free after 20 years of doing nothing is a no-brainer. If you are using your brain. It takes longer to take the print than for these computers to do the match.
And make no mistake about it. The system can absorb these checks from taking them to submitting them. One day in our recent history (when IAFIS was operational) we had 100,000 prints somehow taken. That is how they hit that record number. The system is very large. Morrissey may have a question – but its roots are from his lack of knowledge. Not from a lack of capability in our government. What is the passport processing capacity of America? Again we have information at hand:
The Department of State set new records in March and April, issuing more than three million passports to Americans planning international travel.
This is clearly the much more arduous process than the Z-visa background check. But even at these levels it would take 8 months by this metric. 8 months and we would have 12 million undocumented workers now documented? The actual time is probable between these two numbers so between 3-8 months, depending on how many people come forward. Seems like damn quick and better THAN DOING NOTHING. See, this can be done FASTER than building the wall which has simply logistical problems you cannot overcome. In the same time it takes to raise a 5 story building you can get the undocumented documented.
I cannot help but note and share the administration’s exasperation with all these armchair experts who know nothing about what the government systems can do. I too weary of their lame excuses and irrational theories and inability to note how many times they lose these discussions when reality clobbers their fantasty nightmares. We can process the illegals just fine. End of story. Not the end of the hypochondriacs endless excuses to do nothing. No, those will never end.
Update: Ed Morrissey has responded and I clearly did not communicate my point:
AJ Strata thinks I’m gnowing at a bone of amnesty conspiracy thinking. Actually, my original post had nothing to do with “amnestyâ€; it had to do with competence, and AJ missed the point. He claims that the government has the ability to process 100,000 illegal aliens a day, but where is this supposed to happen and who’s supposed to do it? I’m sure that eventually they could get it done, but they don’t have the capacity to resolve an extra 5 million passport applications over a one-year period despite having an eighteen-month head start on it.
Actually, what I said was the amnesty hypochondriacs were the ones using the canard that we cannot pass process the background checks. I only said Ed Morrissey posted on that myth. I did not miss the point. But maybe it is just not so obvious to some as to me. The Administration quote mentions the background checks, which is done using the FBI’s fingerprint system called IAFIS. Ed Morrissey wants to know what system is going to do it? THAT system – IAFIS. It ties fingerprints to criminal records. This is well known to some, definitely to me. OK, it is not clear to Morrissey.
Which proves my point that his position is based on a lack of knowledge, nothing more. As the administration pointed out criminal background checks are quick and are not the driver on passports. The quoted response to him clearly mentioned the FBI processing the check. The driver on passports is different. It is the processing ito confirm US citizenship (hello – this is why the current system is too cumbersome for companies to confirm citizenship, even the government can’t get a quick answer – anyone listening as to why we need the bill?). So we are where we were before. Ed Morrissey posted a myth of the far right as fact. When told why it was a myth, with additional information from me which shows the EXACT capacity of the system which will be used for background checks, he doesn’t accept the fact the myth was busted. The administration answered his question on background checks, I confirmed nd clarified it – end of story. But the denial continues. Morrissey returns to repeat the same mistake he made initially. A background check (FBI and IAFIS) is not a check for US citizenship (Passports and Social Security, IRS and others). What are you going to do when they myth is busted and the fantasizers say “I don’t care, I still believe!”. LOL! You focus on the folks whose minds have not shut down. What else?
Update: Some information for those who want to understand the issue and the systems we have at our disposal. Here is a great pitch in IAFIS, portable fingerprint terminals and the whole lot which shows how fast we will be able to process people. Bottom line, we took the system to war with us and trained our troops to use it in Iraq and Afghanistan to collect information (clearly not going to find criminal records there). No big hit on their budgets. But if you want to find a potential terrorist IAFIS is the worlds largest (4 times larger than anything in Europe) and has connections to international systems. We use it to do background checks on all personnel supporting our military to make sure no one sneaks through the process. It works and is the best repository on the planet. This myth is busted!!
Remember all those back taxes you keep yapping about, AJ? Check out Jeff Sessions #18 list. It fully explains (by someone who has actually read the bill and has a staff to translate the legaleze) about the fact that those applying for the Z-visa will not be required to pay back taxes. They will only be required to pay taxes AFTER they are amnestied and want to upgrade from the Z visa to a green card.
http://www.sessions.senate.gov/pressapp/record.cfm?id=275456
And AJ, your takedown of the Capt’s post, is nonsense!
The Capt has been a very sane and moderate voice in this debate, and his posts on this subject, are well reasoned, balanced, and reflective!
In addition, I work in an industry right now, where we do Background Checks, and Thorough Background check, which we pay Hundreds of dollars for, EACH, takes from 3 – 7 Business Days, PER EACH ONE!
IF it is done correctly!
I have no idea where you get this idea it takes minutes, or seconds, to do that, that is just plain ludicrous!
Dale,
What is it with you folks and your thin skins? Of course Ed has been low key – it is his nature. I truly admire the man (and he knows it because I have made it clear in my emails and discussions with him). But he doesn’t get a bye on grasping for straws. Sadly it took me a whole ten seconds to find the capacity of the IAFIS system (I knew the design, not the measured performance). I know what it takes (irregardless of what you pay somebody) to do the FBI check or being a convicted criminal. Want to know why you have to pay for the checks and they take longer? Because you are not the federal government and you cannot access those systems!
Duh!
Dale, do not pretend to dispute a system design I know very well (down to an dollar amount we negotiated with Oracle). And the fact is the processing is that fast. Forget it. Don’t destroy what credibility you have left pretending you know more about computer systems and how they operate. We both know that is not your experience base. I pointed to EASILY found metrics on what the system capacity is. And it can be increased easily.
This is information systems 101 my friend. And Morrissey cannot admit this myth has been BUSTED!!!
LOL! And honestly, I could care less right now who admits that issue is dead. My goal is to get the bill passed. I like Ed Morrissey, but his reasoning was not based on experience or knowledge, but on the lack of it. When the far right closed down and stopped listening to us traitorous moderates (check out Bikerken’s rants for an example) they became fair game. Establishing positions based on things like this myth was bad enough. Trying to salvage the myth based on a lack of knowledge was as I said it was – a last grasping at straws.
The numbers are there for the system. Denial is ludicrous!
Retire05
As to back taxes, can you tell us how the conservative voices are demanding the back tax provision be in the Senate bill and then plan to say that is UnConstitional because it originated in the Senate once this thing goes to conference? Blueslip it as it were. ALso as has been pointed out the money to stay at Z visa status is a lot. More than any back taxes that would have to be be paid. Especially at these levels of income
NExt
Dale
You said
“In addition, I work in an industry right now, where we do Background Checks, and Thorough Background check, which we pay Hundreds of dollars for, EACH, takes from 3 – 7 Business Days, PER EACH ONE!”
Dale:
the Govt will not be paying a compay to do Background Checks. IF they are then that is a scandal lol. THey shall be doing it. AJ is right. When I was a little ole asst DA I was able to get a rap sheet and a ton of stuff in no time. When people are processed their prints are run and they get results back lickety split. Theere is no major problem here
Actually, NASA can handle far more data than you just described…
Millions of data many times over per 24 hours for the shuttle AND station together. In terms of seconds, milliseconds, nanoseconds, etc.!
And we have humongous amount of backups of all kinds!! Needed for playbacks as well.
Our networks, computers, and servers are so fast today. We’re in the process of replacing the old Digital / Compac Alpha machines with the new HP dual core Linux boxes. Man, these machines are fast. But we’re having to adapt some of our software to run dual core.
Once the data’s in, no worries. Typing data in takes time but if they provide online electric forms, then no typing required!
According to the FBI:
http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cjisd/faqs.html
How long does it take to get a background check once the FBI receives the request?
Plucked directly from CQ –
UPDATE: AJ Strata thinks I’m gnowing at a bone of amnesty conspiracy thinking. Actually, my original post had nothing to do with “amnesty”; it had to do with competence, and AJ missed the point. He claims that the government has the ability to process 100,000 illegal aliens a day, but where is this supposed to happen and who’s supposed to do it? I’m sure that eventually they could get it done, but they don’t have the capacity to resolve an extra 5 million passport applications over a one-year period despite having an eighteen-month head start on it.
Obviously, it’s possible to do it, but this bill doesn’t provide the resources for it — and it’s one of several mandates in the bill that have to be accomplished concurrently. That’s my point, and neither AJ nor the White House addressed it.
— end the pluck
You are spinning everything as usual, AJ. And, as usual, you keep missing the main points while you are busy performing your spin.
Follow AJ’s link to CQ and read the update at the bottom. It is toooooo funny.
AJ, Sessions spells it out: an person is only required to show proof of paying taxes when they apply for a green card WHILE WORKING UNDER A Z-VISA, and only federal taxes, not state or municipal taxes.
But you respond with another question. That is a clear dodge. I ask you to provide the text of the bill where it addresses back taxes. So far, all I have heard are the crickets churping, but no response from you.
Now you are saying that we have the data speed available to process all these FBI background checks in the 24 hours mandated? If that is the case, then why are so many illegals who have committed crimes back on the streets like those who have been arrested on DWIs?
A.J., you have SO lost it.
Apache, below CQ’s comment are blog links. Click on the Macsmind link and read Mac’s Update II.
Bottom line: none of this makes a damn. The illegal will get probationary status within 24 hours, complete background check or not. What we will have then are tens of thousands of “probationary” visa holders, who don’t pass the background check, in the same shadows that they hide in now and who the hell is going to be looking for them? No one. And only if they are caught for a crime will they be checked. Another case of closing the barn door long after the horse is gone.
“Now you are saying that we have the data speed available to process all these FBI background checks in the 24 hours mandated? If that is the case, then why are so many illegals who have committed crimes back on the streets like those who have been arrested on DWIs? ”
I can answer that. First many local jurisidctions that have jails that are full sometimes release them on bond. Hold from INS be damned. Further, it is law local law enforcement that contacts INS when it has someone. INS doesnt find this out any other way. Also in the past and I am talking post 9/11 times the INS would not pick them up because of manpower problems or at that point it was not a huge priority depending on the offense.
THe problem that you are talking about had little to do with the computers.
THe only crimes that would not be turned up are in po dunk areas where the local authorites do not turn in the info.
“an person is only required to show proof of paying taxes when they apply for a green card WHILE WORKING UNDER A Z-VISA, and only federal taxes, not state or municipal taxes.”
Good grief now the Feds are responsible for state and even municipal taxes loL.
Many of these illegals have been paying taxes. THe IRS issues 7.1 million numbers last year for this purpose. Also , as I keep mentioning let us look at relaity here. These folks are not at a high income level anyway.
As the White House has pointed out there is no icnetive to stay at Z status. THe various fees that add up quite quickly are a major factor in wanting to move to green card status. THe amount of ines in many of the cases will be much greater than any possible past tax liabilities
One final thought. Conservatives might want to think twice about hiring tens of thousands of IRS agents to search all these records and employers with a magnify glass. When this is doen they will still be employed and I am not sure that is a great thing
I’m going with the rocket scientist on this one, not the captain of an imaginary blog ship — who obsequiously kisses up to Malkin.
Yeah A.J., this is now an all-out war started by extreme mighty righties, and there is too much at stake to spare any feelings. The hardliners & demagogues have pitched this thing to a point where there is absolutely nothing to lose by telling the unvarnished truth. Plenty of us tried and did abide by Reagan’s 11th commandment. But that law has been trampled many thousands of times over… now we’re talking survival, and we are in uncharted waters.
I am continuously amazed and awed by the fact that an INDEPENDENT unaffiliated Republican such as you A.J., is one of the leading voices of sanity and advocates of saving the GOP. Bless you for doing the job that should be at the top of the list of any genuine, thinking, conservative Republican with a microphone or keyboard.
Biglsufan, I guess the reason the Duka brothers (of the Fort Dix Six) were allowed to get over 50 arrests between them, some for violent behavior and some for traffic violations, is because their town in N.J. is just some podunk town? And remember, one of them was a pizza delivery boy, just doing the job an American won’t do. Right?
Of course, you are not worried about them paying taxes. Maybe we could just cut them all a check for their Earned Income Tax credit when they apply for their “probationary” visas? And how long do you really think the fines will last when the ACLU gets involved? I can just hear the ACLU lawyers now; “oh, all those poor people being oppressed by the Federal Goverment and being made to pay fines with money they don’t have. It’s sooooo unconstitutional.”
SallyVee, AJ has said repeatedly that he is an “independent”. That means he is no longer a Democrat [as he said he once was] but has not crossed over to being a Republican.
Fine, ignore the Captain. But can you ignore MacsMind? Mac is married to a ‘legal’ immigrant and he is saying loud and clear, DUMP THIS BILL.
Aren’t you a little old to be a groupie, Sally?
Heres a little dose of reality:
http://www.kerman94.com/mexicotourism.html
Here is what I heard on local Birmingham radio (1070 AM) at 6:30 pm this evening. There is a new local guy on in the slot normally alotted to the Savage Wiener’s mad ravings. I thought I’d give the new guy a chance, thinking maybe Savage got dumped because he’s insane, and the replacement is a bit more moderate and restrained. Wishful thinking as it turns out.
So the guy proceeds to read the details of Spec. Jimenez’s presumed capture and his wife’s pending deportation. He then reads the details of the “ponytail bankrobber” who is operating somewhere in the midwest, and who apparently struck again today. He then states that these two cases are no different — both are criminals and both should face the full and immediate consequences of their law breaking.
The guy states that the fact that an illegal alien happened to marry an American soldier is not germane to the discussion whatsoever.
Throughout this diatribe, the guy periodically interrupted himself with one of two phrases: “I’m sorry, this is really distateful, but…” and “Folks, this really breaks my heart to say, but…” and then of course he’d repeat that Mrs. Jimenez is a criminal who needs to go back to wherever she came from, ASAP.
Then the guy gets into Kennedy & Kerry, saying “here are two guys who’ve shown us over and over how little they think of our military, and now suddenly they are rising to the defense of an American soldier?” Well, he had a half-point there. But the more glaring point to me was that a Republican did not beat Kennedy or Kerry to a microphone to stand up for this couple.
Folks, unless one of you hypochondriacs actually know the system like I do then I did not lose. I failed to penetrate your mob-think. You do know some people still believe we never landed on the moon. They too deny the facts right in front of their faces.
IAFIS exists since I posted an article that listed the exact capacity of the system to do what Ed Morrissey was asking about. Not my fault he is so wedded to the myths that even when busted he cannot accept it.
The government can process the 12 million checks using fingerprints and the IAFIS system within 3-6 months. End of story. Prove me wrong! LOL – Good luck.
Retire, my God you are a busy body. Have you ever thought about taking up needlepoint?
I can and I do ignore the captain, though I once thought he was pretty level headed. And if you want to do the tit for tat, try reading Big Lizard, whose wife is also a legal immigrant and who experienced the tortures of the damned getting legalized in our completely broken, capricious system. The Lizard routinely cleans the clock of guys like the Captain, especially on the war and immigration. His logic and writing skills are so vastly superior as to be in another galaxy. And he happens to support the current immigration bill — warts and all.