Jun 20 2007
Administration Answers Immigration Critics With Brutal Reality
Ed Morrissey posts on one of the many conspiracy myth’s running around the GOP circles as they do their amnesty hypochondriac Chicken Little dance. This one had to do with how long it takes to process Z-Visas compared to passports (not EVEN the same thing) and the ridiculous myth background checks take time (having worked briefly on a design for the FBI’s modern fingerprint identification system I know this to be a myth personally). Here is the answer to the critics (for all the good it will do since the critics are not listening, they are running in full mob-induced panic):
I can see how, in order to score a quick point, it would be tempting to equate the passport backlog with the issue of Z visas.
However, you make a false analogy.Background checks are not a significant factor contributing to the current backlog in processing passport applications. Instead, the key reason for the delay is the non-automated and very labor-intensive process of verifying that the individual is indeed a U.S. citizen. Another major reason for the passport backlog is the time-consuming process for producing the passport itself, which requires an electronic chip, a machine readable strip, and other tamper-resistant features.
By contrast, adjudication of a Z visa application does not require verification of citizenship status because the individual acknowledges at the outset that he or she is illegal. And any delays due to production of the document, of course, are irrelevant to DHS’s ability to handle the background checks.
The background check at issue for the current undocumented is an automated process involving an electronically captured print that will be run through database checks.
I made this point many times. Bounced right off the redfaced foreheads of the hypochondriacs. They don’t understand the process or the systems, but damn they are expert geniuses when they need to be. Did it move Morrissey? Nope, he went to grasp another straw:
However, this isn’t quite responsive to the main thrust of my argument. It does address the issues surrounding the 24-hour background checks, but not the main point about allocation of resources and the instant creation of a new bureaucracy that will have to handle upwards of 12 million applications almost immediately.
Sorry, but as much as I like Ed Morrissey and I know he is the superior blogger, he is just making a silly point here. First off, the 12 million will not come in the door all at once on day one. Second, they will not need to be processed all at once, but the system has a huge capacity. Needless to say those that come forward initially will have little to fear from the background checks! I mean – Duh! The purpose is to get the haystack of good, reasonable people to come forward and step away from those bad needles we need to find and deport! So what if we wait a bit (and I mean a short time) to validate their own confidence they will pass the check? Geez, doesn’t anyone remember the purpose of this?
In addition, what is the alternative? Oh yea – no one steps forward and no one gets checked! We do nothing. So in a fit of a incredibly implausible scenario dreaming we see the reason to do nothing. But let me bring technical reality into the debate (and very few are going to argue a system I know about). IAFIS is the current finger printing system. Here is a capacity metric for it from last year:
While Congress initially mandated a capacity level for IAFIS of 62,500 matches daily, the system’s busiest day so far has reached the 100,000 level.
The architecture is a completely scalable parallel processing system which processes requests by sending them to a number of parallel processing core servers. Capacity is EASILY increased by simply adding more core processers AND by upgrading the existing ones to faster motherboards. But let’s do some math for the hypochondriacs on last year’s capacity numbers. At 100,000 submissions a day the 12 million submissions can be processed in 120 days. Yep. Less than three months. As I said, we know there will be a rush of people confident they can pass the check, but waiting three months do have them verified as crime-free after 20 years of doing nothing is a no-brainer. If you are using your brain. It takes longer to take the print than for these computers to do the match.
And make no mistake about it. The system can absorb these checks from taking them to submitting them. One day in our recent history (when IAFIS was operational) we had 100,000 prints somehow taken. That is how they hit that record number. The system is very large. Morrissey may have a question – but its roots are from his lack of knowledge. Not from a lack of capability in our government. What is the passport processing capacity of America? Again we have information at hand:
The Department of State set new records in March and April, issuing more than three million passports to Americans planning international travel.
This is clearly the much more arduous process than the Z-visa background check. But even at these levels it would take 8 months by this metric. 8 months and we would have 12 million undocumented workers now documented? The actual time is probable between these two numbers so between 3-8 months, depending on how many people come forward. Seems like damn quick and better THAN DOING NOTHING. See, this can be done FASTER than building the wall which has simply logistical problems you cannot overcome. In the same time it takes to raise a 5 story building you can get the undocumented documented.
I cannot help but note and share the administration’s exasperation with all these armchair experts who know nothing about what the government systems can do. I too weary of their lame excuses and irrational theories and inability to note how many times they lose these discussions when reality clobbers their fantasty nightmares. We can process the illegals just fine. End of story. Not the end of the hypochondriacs endless excuses to do nothing. No, those will never end.
Update: Ed Morrissey has responded and I clearly did not communicate my point:
AJ Strata thinks I’m gnowing at a bone of amnesty conspiracy thinking. Actually, my original post had nothing to do with “amnestyâ€; it had to do with competence, and AJ missed the point. He claims that the government has the ability to process 100,000 illegal aliens a day, but where is this supposed to happen and who’s supposed to do it? I’m sure that eventually they could get it done, but they don’t have the capacity to resolve an extra 5 million passport applications over a one-year period despite having an eighteen-month head start on it.
Actually, what I said was the amnesty hypochondriacs were the ones using the canard that we cannot pass process the background checks. I only said Ed Morrissey posted on that myth. I did not miss the point. But maybe it is just not so obvious to some as to me. The Administration quote mentions the background checks, which is done using the FBI’s fingerprint system called IAFIS. Ed Morrissey wants to know what system is going to do it? THAT system – IAFIS. It ties fingerprints to criminal records. This is well known to some, definitely to me. OK, it is not clear to Morrissey.
Which proves my point that his position is based on a lack of knowledge, nothing more. As the administration pointed out criminal background checks are quick and are not the driver on passports. The quoted response to him clearly mentioned the FBI processing the check. The driver on passports is different. It is the processing ito confirm US citizenship (hello – this is why the current system is too cumbersome for companies to confirm citizenship, even the government can’t get a quick answer – anyone listening as to why we need the bill?). So we are where we were before. Ed Morrissey posted a myth of the far right as fact. When told why it was a myth, with additional information from me which shows the EXACT capacity of the system which will be used for background checks, he doesn’t accept the fact the myth was busted. The administration answered his question on background checks, I confirmed nd clarified it – end of story. But the denial continues. Morrissey returns to repeat the same mistake he made initially. A background check (FBI and IAFIS) is not a check for US citizenship (Passports and Social Security, IRS and others). What are you going to do when they myth is busted and the fantasizers say “I don’t care, I still believe!”. LOL! You focus on the folks whose minds have not shut down. What else?
Update: Some information for those who want to understand the issue and the systems we have at our disposal. Here is a great pitch in IAFIS, portable fingerprint terminals and the whole lot which shows how fast we will be able to process people. Bottom line, we took the system to war with us and trained our troops to use it in Iraq and Afghanistan to collect information (clearly not going to find criminal records there). No big hit on their budgets. But if you want to find a potential terrorist IAFIS is the worlds largest (4 times larger than anything in Europe) and has connections to international systems. We use it to do background checks on all personnel supporting our military to make sure no one sneaks through the process. It works and is the best repository on the planet. This myth is busted!!
SallyVee
I am not suprised what you have heard on the radio. It shows how far this sickness has gone. We have to still oursleves for a months heavy Casualties because we are about to go head to head with AQ in what could be the big battle. THe last thing we need is a uproar in the hispanic community deporting a missing war hero that God’s know what happened to him
YEt, some ofthe hardliners say no exception. The illegals must go no exceptions. I kepp pointing out the disruptions to the economy, the practical politcal consequences, the effect (SOCIAL and ECONOMIC) it will have on the 3.1 million American children involved and no ones cares.
The plan is fair and just and fits withina Christian ethic to boot.
What gets me is that finally throught he worker verfications systems we can finally end much of the illegal immigration. YEt people are still focused on this silly fence . Regardless that 40 percent of the illegals enter legally. Its bizaree. The sooner we get started processing the sooner illegal immigration starts to go down.
AJ, you are so seriously deluding yourself. I am a systems analyst and I have not only worked with several federal databases but have also developed some specialized databases on my own for the fed. You have heard of the old GIGO haven’t you? Garbage in, garbage out. Exactly what search criteria are you going to have on someone who crosses into the country illegally, uses a fake name and SSN who hasn’t been fingerprinted in the US before? The correct answer is NONE. And might I add, that the kind of background checks you need to do on FOREIGNERS usually involves another country! What don’t you understand about that? Have you ever tried to contact Somalia for information on an illegal Somali? They don’t even have a functioning government! Do you think you will get a good response from the land of corruption to our south? I might add, that if this is your real honest opinion, then you don’t know the system at all. End of story.
And what happens if they make a fake name, get fake documentation, then use the fake documentation with their freshly minted fake name, to get a State driver’s license. Next, they take their State issued driver’s license and give someone a $100 to vouch for them and they apply for their Z-visa. Of course nothing will turn up under their fake name, and now, here is the best part, a terrorist can freely travel all across the United States with a FEDERAL ID and the blessing of Uncle Sam.
It’s just so bloody brilliant!!
Only a politician could come with this plan and think it was a “good” idea.
We need better leaders in Washington.
Well, since the topic is brutal reality, check this out from Say Anything:
Americans give both President Bush and the Congress failing marks on their handling of immigration, according to a new UPI/Zogby poll on the topic.
The Zogby Interactive poll of 8,300 adults nationwide finds just 3% of Americans viewing Congress’s handling of the immigration issue in favorable terms, while 9% say the same of the President-even as respondents in the survey rated it the second most important issue facing the country, after the war in Iraq.
3% – OJ’s approval ratings are higher than that.
Roger Hedgcock, substituting for Rush today, had on Michael Chertoff and Jeff Sessions. Too bad no one heard it.
A week ago or so Rush took a call from a guy who was an Ex Treasury Dept. Officer. He was trying to get another Gov’t Job after 21 years at Treasury. THEY TOLD HIM IT WOULD TAKE 7-8 WEEKS FOR HIS NEW BACK GROUND CHECK! AND HE JUST RETIRED!! Did anyone else catch that call last week? I wish I could remember what he was now trying to get a job as, but I can’t. It was instructive and funny!
If I still had Rush 24/7 I could look it up, but I can’t afford it anymore. Energy Cost and Tax Increases have hurt me.
Can a proponent of this bill tell me why some gang member, thug, child molester or wanna be terrorist would use their real name when applying for their Z visa????
I’m having a hard time picturing that happening.
And, if their finger prints or face isn’t in a FEDERAL database, how can you prove they aren’t who they claim to be??
I apologize in advance for injecting reality into this debate. I know how the proponents hate that.
Retire,
Thanks for pointing out the link to Macsmind. It was a good read.
Danke.
Charlotte Area News:
The Gaston County jail has begun checking inmates’ immigration status as part of a partnership with national Immigration and Customs Enforcement.
On May 21, the Gaston County Sheriff’s Office received final approval from ICE, allowing the jail to hold people on immigration charges for up to 72 hours. Ten deputies received the authority and training to check immigration status in February, and the computers that can access ICE databases were installed in March.
Sheriff Alan Cloninger had hoped to have the program running by late March, but was awaiting this final approval.
Mecklenburg and Alamance counties also are part of the ICE program, and 15 other N.C. counties have applied, ICE spokesman Michael Gilhooly said.
Since April, the deputies have been checking inmates’ immigration status part-time, Cloninger said.
T.B. UPDATE:
The national media covered tuberculosis carrier Andrew Speaker wall-to-wall earlier this month. That hubbub has died down, but TB scares across the country continue. Why no follow-up on this national health crisis? Because calling attention to it might earn you the wrath of Geraldo, Lindsey Graham, Linda Chavez, President Bush, and the rest of the bigot card-players.
So be it.
Take a look at the latest case in Greenville, S.C.:
The number of workers exposed to tuberculosis at a Greenville, S.C., chicken plant has grown to 131, but state health officials cautioned Tuesday only one is suspected of having an active form of the infectious disease.
The S.C. Department of Health and Environmental Control began testing employees at the House of Raeford Farms plant late last month after the agency was told about the infected worker. So far, 286 employees who have been in contact with the worker have been tested.
The percentage of positive cases is believed to be high because many of the plant’s employees come from other countries where the disease may be more prevalent, said agency spokesman Thom Berry.
Translation: Illegal aliens. Or, as President Bush calls them, “newcomers.†Or, as Harry Reid calls them, “undocumented Americans.†Whatever you call them, they are people who have not been screened for infectious disease before entering the country. The Charlotte Observer reports that “more than 60 percent of line workers in the chicken industry are Hispanic. And experts say most of the workers probably entered the U.S. already infected.â€
While not considered an immediate threat to Greenville residents, the number of infected workers reflects a concern about a growing health threat: immigrants increasingly carrying TB to the U.S.
“It’s become more of an imported disease,†said Dr. Jason Stout, an infectious disease specialist at Duke University who serves as one of North Carolina’s tuberculosis consultants.
House of Raeford employs about 650 workers at its Greenville plant who process chicken for stores and fast-food restaurants. Many of the workers live in small neighborhoods surrounding the plant.
Foreign-born residents accounted for 55 percent of TB cases nationwide in 2005 — the last year for which statistics were available. The greatest number of foreign born cases, 25 percent, or 1,942 cases, came from Mexico, followed by the Philippines, Vietnam, and India. In 1993, foreign-born residents made up 29 percent of reported TB cases.
Every year, thousands of illegal immigrants come to the Carolinas to work in poultry, construction and other industries. But undocumented workers are not the only ones entering the United States without being tested for TB. While refugees receive the tests, many immigrants traveling on tourist, business and student visas do not, according to experts.
“That is a major problem,†said Carol Pozsik, CEO of the National TB Controllers Association…
The Saga Continues….
Stevevvs,
I heard both of the Rush Limbaugh shows that you are talking about.
I listen to Rush via Internet streaming. I didn’t record the one with the Federal Agent that retired after 20+ years getting his background check. But I did save the one from today with Chertoff and Sessions.
What was even better than Chertoff’s comments was Roger pointing out the insanity of the “engineering” problems on smuggler’s gulch. If they can’t figure out the “engineering problems” for a 2 mile stretch, just imagine how long the whole fence will take!
And that doesn’t even take into consideration all the legal challenges that will surely crop up.
The southern border won’t be secured for at least 20 years. And no one is even talking about the northern border.
Maybe this helps those wondering about the Terrorist Option:
Giving Terrorists Options
Inexplicably, proponents of the Kennedy amnesty bill assume that its enactment will allow the federal government to identify these terrorists. On the contrary, the bill will make it easier for alien terrorists to operate in the United States by allowing them to create fraudulent identities with ease. To understand what will happen if the bill becomes law, assume the perspective of the illegal alien terrorist operating within the United States.
Within 180 days after the President signs the legislation, the Department of Homeland Security must start handing out amnesties, in the form of “probationary” Z visas. (No border security triggers need to be met; the amnesty comes first, according to Sections 1(a) and 601(f)(2) of the bill.) At that point, the terrorist can choose whichever of three options suits him best.
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Immigration/wm1513.cfm
as they say, read it all..
Apache,
Glad you heard it today. Roger is the former Mayor of San Diego, and a lawyer, he knows his stuff. He will be on Thursday too!
Ya, that “Engineering” Problem was a scream. Sessions was awesom. Got to go. One post is missing. I’ll try a smaller version:
Take a look at the latest case in Greenville, S.C.:
The number of workers exposed to tuberculosis at a Greenville, S.C., chicken plant has grown to 131, but state health officials cautioned Tuesday only one is suspected of having an active form of the infectious disease.
The S.C. Department of Health and Environmental Control began testing employees at the House of Raeford Farms plant late last month after the agency was told about the infected worker. So far, 286 employees who have been in contact with the worker have been tested.
The percentage of positive cases is believed to be high because many of the plant’s employees come from other countries where the disease may be more prevalent, said agency spokesman Thom Berry.
Translation: Illegal aliens. Or, as President Bush calls them, “newcomers.†Or, as Harry Reid calls them, “undocumented Americans.†Whatever you call them, they are people who have not been screened for infectious disease before entering the country. The Charlotte Observer reports that “more than 60 percent of line workers in the chicken industry are Hispanic. And experts say most of the workers probably entered the U.S. already infected.â€
While not considered an immediate threat to Greenville residents, the number of infected workers reflects a concern about a growing health threat: immigrants increasingly carrying TB to the U.S.
“It’s become more of an imported disease,†said Dr. Jason Stout, an infectious disease specialist at Duke University who serves as one of North Carolina’s tuberculosis consultants.
House of Raeford employs about 650 workers at its Greenville plant who process chicken for stores and fast-food restaurants. Many of the workers live in small neighborhoods surrounding the plant.
Foreign-born residents accounted for 55 percent of TB cases nationwide in 2005 — the last year for which statistics were available. The greatest number of foreign born cases, 25 percent, or 1,942 cases, came from Mexico, followed by the Philippines, Vietnam, and India. In 1993, foreign-born residents made up 29 percent of reported TB cases.
Every year, thousands of illegal immigrants come to the Carolinas to work in poultry, construction and other industries. But undocumented workers are not the only ones entering the United States without being tested for TB. While refugees receive the tests, many immigrants traveling on tourist, business and student visas do not, according to experts.
“That is a major problem,†said Carol Pozsik, CEO of the National TB Controllers Association…
Apache,
I’ve tried two post, both lost in the Strata Sphere. Glad you heard them today. Listen Thursday too!
That is PRECISELY what I was trying to point out in my other posts. It is utter insanity to assume that all of the bad people will step forward and give up their real name!!
They will either stay in the so called “shadows”, or they will step forward and game the system. It is as simple as that. And only a bloody fool would believe otherwise.
It isn’t like gaming the system is that difficult. The terrorists don’t even take it seriously now. And this bill does nothing but make it easier to game.
Some of the 9-11 hijackers put “Hotel America” for their “residence” on their Visa applications. And they were approved!!!!!!!!!
I posted this once but haven’t seen it yet.
AJ, you are so seriously deluding yourself on this background check. I am a systems analyst and work extensively with databases. I have used several federal databases and have created some special use databases for the fed.
You are familiar with the expression GIGO aren’t you? Garbage in, Garbage out. Exactly what search criteria could you use on an illegal who came across the border illegally, uses a fake name and SSN and has never been fingerprinted in the US? The correct answer is NONE. It is not possible to get an accurate check on someone using bogus information. And I would add, that when you do background checks on FORIEGNERS, you usually need to include response from a foreign country. Have you ever tried to call Somalia for a background check on a Somali? They don’t even have a functioning government for god’s sake! What in bejesus name are you thinking?
You are comparing rational logical adults to the people who don’t believe we didn’t land on the moon because they don’t believe these background checks can be done?!?
If that is your true opinion, you don’t know what you’re talking about at all! I’m really starting to wonder what’s behind that anomynity.
If someone had sat me down 6 months ago and said, “I need you write a piece of legislation that on the surface appears to be good, but in reality will make the illegal immigration problem WORSE and make it easier for terrorists to get into our Country”, this current bill is the bill I would have written.
Maybe I give myself too much credit. This current bill is the bill I would have tried to write, to meet the requirement above. I am not sure I could have done as good a job as our politicians.
We are living in some very, very strange times.
Steve,
I’ll listen tomorrow. Should I record it?
AJ: this almost isn’t fair anymore, I’m starting to feel sorry for you!
Since I first started programming FORTRAN in 1974, to working with mega-SQL DB’s based around WANG systems in the late 80’s, to helping design Data Storage critera for TS/SCI/Code Word DB’s in the early 90’s, to what I do now, in my “civilian” life, I’ve dealt with Computers, Programming Languages, DB’s, Data Storage and Retrieval!
I helped pioneer the usage of the old “Grids” for use in the field by Tactical forces; to using cutting edge Sun & SPARC machines in the early 90’s, that the Civilian World has YET to see!
In addition, my Aunt was a Dean of Compter Science, from the mid-70’s up to when she retired a few years ago, at a major college in Pennsylvania; we grew up around her talking about BASIC up thru C, C+, C++, Java, C#, .NET, etc.!
AJ, do you think I got my Current job, NOT knowing anything about computers? Are you kidding me?
AJ, you work for NASA for god’s sake, you know nothing about the IAFIS system, EXCEPT what you can Google!
I don’t care if you know how much Oracle is paid, I, myself PERSONALLY, placed a lot of those people working in Oracle, on those systems!
Geez, you are a stubborn, blinders on young man sometimes!
AJ, the IAFIS DB is a DAMN “Fingerprint” DB, with some Criminal Record capability, tied to the Fingerprints!
It is NOT a “background” check system for god’s sake!
If your fingerprints weren’t some of the 50-odd million sets of Fingerprints that have been collected over the past 60 years by Local, State, and Federal Agencies, and digitized, and put into IAFIS, you are NOT going to show up in a damn check of the system!
In addition to all that, from the time I joined the Corps for the first time, in 82, my job required me to be intimately familiar with REAL “Background” checks, what they entail, how they are carried out, how much they cost, and who does them!
I was the Security Clearance Background Check Officer, for just about every command I was in AJ! Man oh man, you’re killing me…
In my civilian life, it has continued, and I have access to the most uptodate Background Check services, nationwide, and the most comprehensive, and I use them weekly in my current job!
I KNOW how long they take, I KNOW how much they cost, and I KNOW their limitations and their weaknesses!
Geez, you really are completely and thorougly blinded by this topic AJ, completely!
Running an ILLEGAL’s fingerprints, thru IAFIS, when they apply for a Z visa or whatever, IS NOT A “BACKGROUND” check, no matter what it’s Data Crunch capability is, these days!
That’s a damn Fingerprint Check, that’s it!
There are a whole HOST of crimes, that you can commit, at the Local and State level, that don’t require the taking of Fingerprints, and you thus don’t go into IAFIS, AJ; it is NOT a “background” check System; it is a darn Fingerprint Storage system, that’s it!
There is NO SINGLE, SOLITARY National Database, even in the post 9/11 World, where you can access Every single Datapoint Needed, to do a Comprehensive Background check on a person!
IT DOESN’T EXIST!
To do an accurate “Background Check” you, have to check Local, State, and Federal Criminal Records checks, based upon addresses provided; you have to check DMV records, you have to check Credit Records, you have to check National Sexual Offender Register Records, you have to check Education Histories separately, you have to do a Skip trace on addresses/SSN’s, etc., etc.
THAT IS A BACKGROUND Check AJ; not what they’re planning on doing to these ILLEGALS; that’s a damn Fingerprint DB check against the IAFIS system only; and if they are NOT in it, they come up clean!
Guess what AJ, a check of the IAFIS wouldn’t have turned up the Fort Dix Plotters, despite the fact that three of the brothers had a combined total 78 Local Traffic violations!
It wouldn’t have turned up some of the 9/11 Hijackers, for gosh’s sake.
I personally, have been in IAFIS, and it’s predecessors, since I was 8 years old!
And I was entered again, when I was 24 years old; and again when I was 30 years old!
Guess what AJ, they “ran” a fingerprint check on me, when I was in my mid-30’s, when I was doing “something” for the Government,
and they couldn’t find me in the darn thing, even though I had been put in there at least THREE times in my life!
And it hasn’t gotten any better, nor more complete, no matter how fast you think you know it can search Fingerprints now!
Engrave it in stone AJ; NO SINGLE, SOLITARY DB, anywhere, that contains ALL relevant data on an individual, to do a Background Check; doesn’t exist; it’s Science Fiction for movies and TV series like Profiler and the such!
What the new Immigration Bill is proposing, is a cursory, Fingerprint check, against IAFIS and it’s planned successor, NGIS; that is NOT a “background check” AJ, even though you, and they, are calling it that!
That is Window Dressing!
Geesh……
Every time you try to debate me on these points AJ, you lose…it’s time to stop!
I just posted a long reply to AJ, and it got caught in the spam filter, because he frustrated me so badly, I used a couple of four letter words.
But I so thoroughly deconstruct his post to me above, I doubt if he’ll leave it thru the Spam filter.
Oh well, doesn’t matter, he lost the debate again.
I’ve tried 3 different debate strategies with the proponents. The fact based, appeal to reason has been my least successful. They aren’t interested in facts and they turn a deaf ear towards them. The only strategy that showed even marginal results was the appeal to emotion. Just food for thought.
I’m not saying to let up on the facts. Hammer away!! I know I intend to keep it up. Just don’t expect any results with the proponents who argue here on AJ’s blog. They couldn’t care less about facts. The most we can do is influence a casual reader.
Don’t feel alone Dale. I’m getting caught in the spam filter too and I didn’t use any four letter words at all in those posts. All I used was four letter logic.