Jun 22 2007
The Surge Is Massive, And Intense
Many Updates Below
The Surge was not just an effort to bring in a lot more troops to walk the streets and man checkpoints. It was meant to clear or purge large areas of the Islamo Fascists so as to reduce the violence in and around Baghdad – where 80% of the violence was taking place. It is a very large operation where the Diyala campaign, called Arrowhead Ripper, is just one element:
Operation Phantom Thunder, the name of the overarching operation to secure the Baghdad Belts, is now in its fifth day. As noted yesterday, Phantom Thunder is a corps-level operation, with multiple U.S. and Iraqi divisions engaged on multiple fronts. Iraqi Security Forces and Multinational Forces Iraq are engaged in intense fights in four main theaters: Baghdad proper, and the belts regions consisting of Diyala and southern Salahadin provinces to the north, northern Babil province to the south, and eastern Anbar province to the west of Baghdad. The fighting has been the most intense in the city of Baqubah, the provincial capital of Diyala.
The good news is the Iraqi-US forces have established themselves in configurations which are surrounding the al-Qaeda (and sympathizing groups’) strongholds so that there is no place for the Islamo Fascists to go. The fighting is most intense in Baquoba, the capitol city of Diyala Province and the second declared capitol city of al Qaeda’s moder caliphate (Ramadi in Anbar was their original claimed capitol – which they lost a few months back when Anbar turned on al-Qaeda):
The large portion of the media attention has focused on the battle in Baqubah, as this is where the brunt of the heavy fighting is occurring. Baqubah is the provincial capital of Diyala as well as al Qaeda’s proclaimed capital of its rump Islamic State of Iraq. Hundreds, and upwards of 1,000 al Qaeda fighters are believed to be holed up in the city in prepared fighting positions. The city has been mined with IEDs and booby-trapped homes, and seeded with snipers.
…
Both Michael Gordon and Michael Yon, who are embedded in Baqubah, reported U.S. and Iraqi troops are receiving valuable intelligence from the residents of Baqubah. “A positive indicator on the 19th and the 20th is that most local people apparently are happy that al Qaeda is being trapped and killed,” Michael Yon wrote. “Civilians are pointing out IEDs and enemy fighters, so that’s not working so well for al Qaeda.”
I predicted a few months back that al-Qaeda’s brutality would be its undoing and apparently I was right. al-Qaeda cannot exist of the local population is so angry it celebrates their destruction and is willing to take up arms against them. We have gone from what could have been a US surrender to al-Qaeda through a Congressional collapse of spine (nothing more) a few months back to a campaign were the Arab/Muslim street is now rising up against al-Qaeda and showing why the Democrats (or Surrendercrats as I call them) were incredibly wrong on Iraq. Al-Qaeda could have become the beacon of the Muslim world if we had left Iraq, but now they are being destroyed, in large part, by a backlash in the Muslim world.
The reporting on other elements of Phantom Thunder show similar reuslts:
Multinational Division Central, the newly created command to deal with the southern Baghdad Belts, has two concurrent major operations ongoing in its area of operations. Marne Torch is focusing on the city and surrounding regions of Arab Jabour, southeast of Baghdad. Commando Eagle is focusing on the Mahmudiyah region southwest of Baghdad.
“To date, Marne Torch and Iraqi army units have detained more than five dozen suspected extremists and destroyed more than 17 boats on the Tigris River that are responsible for transporting accelerants into Baghdad,” Multinational Forces Iraq reported in a press release. “U.S. forces killed five insurgents, discovered and destroyed 12 improvised explosive devices, and detained 13 wanted individuals.”
…
Multinational Forces West has yet to release the name of the ongoing operations in eastern Anbar province. But the scope of the operation in eastern Anbar is now clearer. In an Associated Press interview with Brigadier General John Allen, the deputy commander of Multinational Forces West, the hot spots in the province were identified.
Brig. Gen. Allen noted there are three main focal points: Fallujah, Karma, and the Thar Thar region.
…
As the major offensive is ongoing in the belts, the pressure is being kept up on Muqtada al Sadr’s Mahdi Army as well as al Qaeda’s network throughout Iraq.
The story has tons of links which knit together the big picture. The Iraqi-US forces are finally engaged in the Surge (which shows why anyone who claimed the Surge was a failure – before it started – was pretty much an idiot) and this intensity is supposed to be sustained for about two months.
Sadly it is impossible to completely cordon off an entire city so that a handful of people cannot get out. And that seems to be the case in Diyala, where al-Qaeda leaders have fled the battlefield (guess they are not interested in 70 virgins):
BAQOUBA, Iraq: U.S. troops are scouring houses and vehicles to root out hundreds of al-Qaida militants believed holed up in western Baqouba, which has become the center of a massive military offensive, a commander said Friday.
…
“They’re clearly in hiding, no question about it. But they’re a hardline group of fighters who have no intention of leaving, and they want to kill as many coalition and Iraqi security forces as they possibly can,” he said in an interview with The Associated Press and another news agency.
…
U.S. commanders have acknowledged, however, that while some element of surprise was preserved in the offensive that began Monday, al-Qaida’s sophisticated intelligence gathering meant top militant leaders knew an attack was imminent.
More than three-quarters of the senior al-Qaida leaders holed up escaped as American soldiers launched an offensive earlier this week, Lt. Gen. Raymond Odierno, the U.S. ground forces commander said on Thursday during a one day trip to the battlefield.
“We believe 80 percent of the upper level (al-Qaida) leaders fled, but we’ll find them,” Odierno said. “Eighty percent of the lower level leaders are still here.”
While it is not good the leaders escaped, the left their people behind to die. That is not considered ‘good form’ in the Middle East. And where will these people go? If their fighters are being rounded up and the locals are ready to kill them on sight where in the world are these cowards going to go? I doubt they will be resurrecting any large fighting forces in Iraq after turning tail in Baquoba. I would gather they (and any remnants that survive the Surge) will be limping into Iran or Syria.
The Islamo Fascists cannot lose two of their claimed capitol cities in Iraq and retain enough credibility to entice people to go die for their cause. The Islamo Fascists are becoming the enemy of the Muslim street. They are being defeated and running from the fight. When they collapse it will be not be some long drawn out event but it will be like a thunderclap. The bottom will fall out of the insurgency and Iraq will FINISH its turn towards a democratic future and an ally of the US and West. The fact the Arab/Muslim street is turning on al-Qaeda makes this almost (nothing is for certain) inevitable. Once they reject al-Qaeda and embrace the current government they will expect to see results, and they will work to try and create the opportunities and garner some of the rewards. If the Iraqis are finally making their decision on which path to go, I have no doubt they will embrace it with energy and determination.
Update: Michael Yon’s latest on the battle for Baqouba is up. I could not help but note how, in yesterday’s installment (linked above), Yon relayed how the SurrenderMedia was completely caught off guard regarding these operations. It is stunning sometimes when a little ol’ blogger like me can see what is building up while CNN, Reuters, AP and others miss the obvious. That is what happens when you staff your organization from only the liberal fringes I guess. Anyway, today’s report from Yon is just positive as yesterdays – and it shows we are out to kick butt:
The combat in Baqubah should soon reach a peak. Al Qaeda seems to have been effectively isolated. The initial attack on 19 June achieved enough surprise that al Qaeda was caught off guard and trapped. They have been beaten back mostly into pockets and are surrounded and will be dealt with. Part of this is actually due to the capability of Strykers. We were able to “attack from the march.” In other words, a huge force drove in from places like Baghdad and quickly locked down Baqubah.
…
Our guys are winning. Al Qaeda is about to be strangled and pummeled to death in this town, …
Diyala Province caught my eye way back in March. The military was making noise back then that Diyala would be the scene of some major activity. Back in March I noted how al-qaeda’s brutality would be there undoing, and how the Surrendercrats would pay a price if the Muslim/Arab street rose up. I have been watching and posting on Diyala since March predicting that Dilaya would be the pivot point in Iraq. It would be this war’s Battle of the Bulge where al-Qaeda makes its last stand and loses. For anyone interested on what I have been posting on Diyala I created a category on the subject with all my posts. Let’s just say I become more confident in my earlier predictions each day we see the reporting from Diyala.
Update: As more news media wake up and finally get into Diyala and start reporting, the news is now coming fast and furious. And ugly:
Baquba is the capital of Diyala province. The region has long been an al Qaeda hotbed, but attacks against U.S. and Iraqi forces have soared here since a four-month-old U.S.-led security crackdown in Baghdad and operations elsewhere prompted many al Qaeda militants and other gunmen to seek sanctuary in Diyala.
The campaign is part of a broader offensive involving tens of thousands of U.S. and Iraqi soldiers pushing on with simultaneous operations in Baghdad, and to the south and west of the capital.
Tough fighting is expected over the next 45-60 days, U.S. military officials have said, sketching a rough timeline for the combined operations.
…
Bednarek said U.S. forces were making some grisly discoveries as they scoured Baquba.
He said residents led soldiers to a house in the western part of the city that appeared to have been used to hold, torment and kill hostages. Soldiers destroyed it.
“When you walk into a room and you see blood trails, you see saws, you see drills, knives, in addition to weapons, that is not normal,” Bednarek said.
Is it really any wonder the Muslim street is rising up against the Islamo Fascists? Is there any doubt this would not be the kind of decision any people would make when faced with the choice of bloody brutality or democratic reform? And as the Muslim World sees what al Qaeda does to other Muslims, is it expected that the Muslim world will embrace these fascists? Or will they seek revenge upon them?
92 Responses to “The Surge Is Massive, And Intense”
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Hello Mr. Strata,
I am struck by the absolute silence in the media about this.
You’d think the biggest battle since 2003 might merit some
coverage but unless you read Bill Roggio or Michael Yon you
aren’t going to know doodly.
I expect as much from CNN or the Beeb, but Fox News?
Because I work in the UK, the Fox segment I normally can
watch is that Jane Skinner hour – Nothing But News, and for the
last five days it’s been about local crime stories only.
I read some complaints from liberal pundits that Fox had stopped
“covering the war” by which I assumed they meant that Fox News,
unlike themselves, had stopped reporting the body count (ours).
But there does seem to be something going on here. I hesitate to
guess. Fox’s parent, Newscorp has had substantial investment
by the Saudis about a year ago or they could be readying themselves for a Democrat controlled beltway. ???
Dunno. It’s very disappointing.
Anybody else noticed this?
If anyone wants to really understand the logic behind Patraeus’s methodology, a look back at the history (which to many forget) of the French fight in Algeria and how they militarily won it but lost the home front (sound familiar) , I highly recommend this article.
Remember per Alfred E. Neuman of Mad magazine fame
History repeats itself………….Mainly if you flunk it!
OOPS sorry wrong link in last comment
Here is the right one.
AJ
Yon has even newer up.
Read it here.
The Media only reports Failure and Death Counts. Michael Yon is my favorite War Reporter. He is ex Special Forces, and I think, tells the truth. Sometimes it’s not what I’m hoping for, but I want the truth.
GREAT POST, AJ!
Mike Yon has a new post up
http://www.michaelyon-online.com/wp/surrender-or-die.htm
Stevevvs
That’s my home boy there, he was raised about 20 miles from me.
Wait, wait, let ME put up the “dissenting” opinion before “Sooth” & “Center” show up to do it!
I’ve been reading so much of their Anti-American/Pro-Jihadi/Anti-Semitic crap, as well as the other Lunar Chiroptera in the Blogosphere for the past 3 years, that I’ve rote memorized the Leftist Talking points by now:
“Sure AJ, this “surge” is just another attempt by the Treasonous, Valerie Plame-leaking, Karl Rove-controlled, Oil addicted, 9/11 knowing, BusHiTlerMcChimpCohalliburtonDICKCheney and the ReThuglikkanSS to cover-up their Pathetic, Corporatist, Military-Industrial-Oil-Complex, Cherry-picked Intel supported, Neo-con, Zionist Backed, International Masons/Shriners/Priory of Zion, Slave-labor-using, Bin Laden secret ties with, lied-us-into-War sorry asses, from the TRUTH that we are committing “urbicide” against the poor, picked upon, throat-slitting Jihadis who are actually the equivalent to “freemdom” fighters, our Founding Fathers, and the Minutemen, by resisting our Criminal Occupation of their pre-invasion Utopian Society, because as we all know, Saddam was a “bad guy…but”, he did keep the Kurds and Shias in line, and he only used a little of his non-existant WMD’s on their traitorous asses, and they deserved it too, becuase they sought to undermine his rule and ties with terrorists and support to Homicide bombers, I mean, how dare they godmyheadhurtsI’mafreakingnutleftistloon….
AW Dale
Please come out of your shell and tell us what you really think!
LOL
{insert appropriate graphic here..since we can’t do that stuff}
Of course WMD did not exist, this is just a picture of Russian transports just picking up their special bbq sauce that Saddam cooked up for them
I never saw that photo before Merlin, interesting!
Strata, you’re lying. Is that an insult? Maybe you’re also lying to yourself. Am I safer now? Let’s see , for the umpthhundred time
how…
“The Islamo Fascists are becoming the enemy of the Muslim street. They are being defeated and running from the fight. When they collapse it will be not be some long drawn out event but it will be like a thunderclap. The bottom will fall out of the insurgency and Iraq will FINISH its turn towards a democratic future and an ally of the US and West. The fact the Arab/Muslim street is turning on al-Qaeda makes this almost (nothing is for certain) inevitable.”
Iraqi Sunni tribal nationalist jihad opponents of al Qaeda are NOT going to join a pro-American Iraqi government if and when they
help vanquish foreign jihadists–and you know it. Every single
al Qaeda type foreigner could be driven from Iraq without the
“bottom falling out of the insurgency” and you know it.
You are either lying to your sheep in order to justify a continuing
US presence in Iraq, incidentially,against the wishes of 80% of both
Iraqis and Americans, …and/or your are lying to yourself by
purposely trashing the scores of strategic analysts that have been
quoted in the press for several years pointing out that which I have just pointed out.
If the latter, it is nothing more than believing in the Tooth Fairy
applied to grim reality–The war is LOST.
Dale
If you like that, you will love this.
Shush, this is supposed to be a secret nobody is supposed to know, mums the word!
TCCH,
If I thought anything you posted was based in reality I would be upset. However, you are pretty funny. Still trying to get in good with al-Qaeda? Still trying to be the next Adam Gadhan? Want to blow up kids with your buddies?
More evasion of the simple truths I told. Did you say a while back
you encouraged one of your kids to fight in Iraq and who might
ultimately be stationed there?
I certainly hope you didn’t indoctrinate him with the above poisonous
tooth-fairying.
If FE got bumped for the L word the troll of wannabe record here should be punted.
All who agree please say AYE.
I happen to know several parents whose kids stationed in Iraq openly say few Iraqis like them or want them there, say no Iraqs can be trusted and who express absolute puzzlement as to why they are there. This tends to dovetail with the inferior arms the US has allowed Iraqi military etc. to possess and many quotes, even, of
soldiers and an occasional officer in the MSM.
But maybe you have (treatable) nightmares about 9/11 which
render all this moot. I’m trying to find excuses for your
focus on “Al Qaeda,” juxtaposed with actual Iraq reality.
“Got to get ‘em there before they come here, got to get em there before they come here, (repeat in lieu of sheep counting
at bedtime…)
Merlin attempts to rally the fascist censors….
I sign up for Yon’s automated Update Emails. I forward them to friends when I get them. I think he is second to none. His Book, Danger Close is pretty good too. It’s about his life and being charged with Murder. He was exonerated, but what a wild ride he has had. I was going to buy it, but my brother sent it to me, so I got lucky on that one! I’d recommend it.
TCCH
Obviously you have no grip on the current situation.
One of the groups the Iraqi’s are throwing into the fray now is a “Mechanized Armour Division” they own. Read that is not a pop gun paint gun brigade.
We are giving them humvees to replace their pickup trucks as better equipment comes to us.
We have started issuing newer rifles over their AK-47S.
Research facts before you spout your stuff.
Merlin, thanks for that link!
“Center”: help me, I’m trying to figure something out about you?
Were you actually born STUPID, or did you just really Practice HARD to get where you currently are?
Please answer, I’m curious?
Ok Dale
Now put down all liquids and back up from the keyboard and then look at this one.
Oh if you go into Google Earth, you see the same tunnel markings in Anbar Province.
Here is a nice little pic to go with the last comment.
Fire up Google Earth and goto 32 degrees 29 / 25 N 43 degrees 41/39.
Sorry for the units stuff but hard to generate those off a normal keyboard stroke set.
Just search for Karbala , Iraq and then move directly west and south of the lake.
Karbala is a bad hit from a map shift, search for Ain Dakhnah,Iraq and look just south.
Durn the river runs south from there, look at the parallel path to the west of the river about 2.72 miles west to be exact.
Merlin: Hi, some good stuff, thanks. I spent six weeks in N. Iraq back in 91, looking for “other stuff”; but just between you and me, from my contacts “inside”; I’m SURE that stuff was taken out of Iraq and into both Syria/Bekaa, and Iran.
AYE, well,,,,,, except…………
Since we know that everything things TCCH says is fabricated, then using the L word would be a fabrication also.
besides, if he got bumped ala Ken beget Soothie beget TCCH then TCCH would just beget also….
So let him keep showing us what Stupid really is………..
So let him keep showing us what Stupid really is………..
FE, ya gotta admit, though, Center/Ken has definitely lowered the standards for what we consider entertainment.
As for your mechanized brigades:
Mechanized brigades are great for invading and seizing ground. During a prolonged and ill-advised occupation, they are tin death traps, as the troopers well know.
“The Islamo Fascists are becoming the enemy of the Muslim street. They are being defeated and running from the fight. When they collapse it will be not be some long drawn out event but it will be like a thunderclap. The bottom will fall out of the insurgency and Iraq will FINISH its turn towards a democratic future and an ally of the US and West.”
–Strata
In other words, the insurgents are “in their last throes” and victory is “just around the corner?” Or do you mean like in the Palestinian territories where a majority of the population supports the Islamo Fascists and elected them so they could dismantle democracy and institute sharia law? Or do you mean like Lebanon, which is still caught in turmoil 20 years after its civil war? Predicting peace in the middle east is a game for suckers and (currently) water-boys for the Bush administration. The worst is yet to come. The Bush administration stupidly lit a powder keg in Iraq, and sadly, cheap wing-nut rhetoric seems to have no effect at all at stemming the mayhem.
I think that it is possible that you don’t even know what “fascism” is, do you? I think that people of your stripe should look up that word and see if it works with the Islamo thing. It doesn’t you know. These countries you are talking about are Militant theocracies. The militant part is the only thing similar to the fascist nations that you are trying to link them to. Our country, unfortunatly is beginning to fit the definition of “fascism” much more closely than the Middle East. Corporately controlled government…that is the basis of Fascism. It is ok to have your own opinion, but not your own facts.
Clueless Sooth
They are being used as cordon forces on the Tigris River sitting there ready to blow away anything that moves.
You really need to get out more.
Wow: Ken/Bootlicker/THECENTERISABUNGHOLE has just cloned Herself, and has a new Transgender sockpuppet named: “Dumbo_Dipshithomies!
Beautiful; another Leftist, Anti-American, Pro-Jihadi to immiate!
Somebody give me a Ballpeen hammer, gotta start smacking myself again!
YEE HAH!
And how long will that last, you moron? Sooner or later, they gotta move. But that’s okay, I’m sure you know better than Lt. Gen Raymond T. Odierno, because you’re no doubt some big war hero — like Dale in Atlanta is the TS/codeword equivalent of Jack Bauer.
As if.
You’re a political sociopath masquerading as a patriot, Dale-rat.
How you taking the last three dozen kayos of US troops? Ooops,
I answered my own question; sociopaths cannot feel regret.
Regret you didn’t finish the job when you were in Iraq-maybe that
helped send you over the line? Too bad. It’s a life-long condition,
like the Vietnam syndrome. For this is indeed the second phase of the mother of all battles and it’s already lost.
And how long will that last, you moron?
Retired, Leftist “Booklicker”, has called you a BAD word?
Aren’t your itty bitty feewings hurt by that?
Boo hoo, PLEASE don’t call me any old name, little Miss “Bootlicker”, I can’t stand it.
Because I’d be just like witty old wou then, and I can’t stand being called names, because it kicks in my medical “condition” that I suffer from; it’s called “Reflexive Surrender Syndrome”; and like all good wittle Weftists, I just want to surrender to someone, ANYONE, pweese, let me surrender, because War is hard, and difficult, like uh.. stuff, and sometimes it doesn’t all go perfect, and sometimes, my Heros and Icons, the Jihadis, get their widdle pinkies hurt, when our mean old American troops spank their widdle peepees…
So we can’t do war any more, because my mudder told me it’s dangerous and I might get my peepee thwacked by the big bad old Americans…
Boo hoo hoo; Boo hoo hoo…
THECENTERISABUNGHOLE:
You’re a political sociopath masquerading as a patriot, Dale-rat.
Thank you, you’ve finally gotten thru, and made an impact on me!
I’m calling the Middle East RIGHT NOW, as we speak, and desperately trying to find someone to surrender too; I’ve left a couple of random messages with Jihadis over there, asking them to call me back, and telling me when and where, and under what conditions, that I can, just like you (THECENTERISABUNGHOLE), and your buddy “Booklicker”, and your even newer buddy “Dumbo_Dipshithomies”, where I can surrender as soon as possible; PLEASE?
And, just like you three, I’ve been practicing my “Reflexive Surrender Syndrome” best move!
1st: Stand, and face your Jihadi master, and look him in the eye
2nd: In one smooth motion, quickly, efficiently pull your pants and underwear down to your ankles, quickly please..
3rd: In another smooth, one movement motion, twirl around, and lay flat on the ground on your stomach!
4th: In a staccato two-count movement, raise both your arms, and reach back and violently spread your buttcheeks apart!
5th: Yell loudly in Arabic: Min Fudluck, Ha-neq Tees-uq!
Ah, I’ll let you do the research on the Arabic phrase, but even idiots like you should be able to get an idea what that means?
Okay, now all together now: PRACTICE…Step #1…
Sorry my Arabic is getting rusty:
5th: Yell loudly in Arabic: Min Fudluck, Ha-neq Tees-EE!
That’s the correct possessive pronoun!
“Boolicker”, “THECENTERISABUNGHOLE” and “Dumbo”; I know you already have the “Reflexive Surrender Syndrome” move down pat, from years of experience, but just in case, I DO recommend you practice with each other, as often as possible!
Thanks, Dale, for making so very clear that your claims of having authored hundred – nay, thousands – of TS/codeword classified documents for the gubmint – are as empty of meaning as your rantings so thoughtfully provided for analysis here.
May your enemies eat from your food-dish with their left hands!
You’ve already surrendered your sanity. Anyone who believes
al Qaida or any collection of non-government Islamic entities
is capable of conquering America , is certifiable.
But you have already surrendered -Iraq, to an anti-American government every bit as hostile as Saddam-the day of the invasion
that surrender was written in stone
Thanks, Dale, for making so very clear that your claims of having authored hundred – nay, thousands – of …yadda yadda yadda.
Bootlicker; I think you are confused, the only thing my “rantings” have PROVEN, are what complete and utter FOOLS you ass-clowns are!
“May your enemies eat from your food-dish with their left hands! ”
Pathetically, you don’t even know what that means, so you’ll Google it, and then post like you have a clue!
Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhh!
“THECENTERISABUNGHOLE”
“You’ve already surrendered your sanity. Anyone who believes
al Qaida or any collection of non-government Islamic entities
is capable of conquering America , is certifiable.”
Ah…..YEAH! Chirp….chirp….chirp…..
As they say in Iraq:
Teese-ak mashe zob-wal-hamar!
Too true, too true….
But seriously, Strata’s analysis of the situation seems too simplistic. Al Qaeda is not *the* insurgency and it’s not *the* “Islamo Fascists.” It’s just one faction in Iraq that has never been in the majority. They’re largely foreigners, just like the U.S. forces, and therefore were never likely to gain strong, lasting support from the Iraqis. It would be great to see them routed, but they were never the major problem, anyway. We’d still be left with the much more significant problem of intra-Iraqi ethnic conflict between Sunnis and Shiites, who between themselves comprise the majority of the insurgent forces (which includes the private Shiite militias and death squads).
We’re dealing with a civil war, which has just barely gotten started. The eventual winner of this struggle will determine the Bush administration’s true legacy in Iraq: if the Sunnis win, it’ll be Saddam all over again, or if (as is more likely) the Shiites win, we will have spent a trillion dollars and probably more than 4,000 of our soldiers’ lives to create another Iran. And this doesn’t even factor in the Kurds and their destabilizing effect on our NATO ally, Turkey. It’s a frickin’ mess no matter how you slice it.
But go ahead, keep telling us that victory is just around the corner, you rubes. Keep telling us that this miserable backwater of a country ever mattered after Saddam was defeated and de-clawed following the first Gulf War, as if anyone cares what you have to say any more.
Actually, Center, I would disagree with you on that point. The current Shia government of Iraq is far more hostile to the United States than Saddam ever was. Saddam was our lap dog – until Bush 41 double-crossed him. Saddam asked permission to invade Kuwait (they WERE slant drilling and stealing Iraqi oil, after all, and no one likes a thief). April Glaspie – speaking for Bush 41 – told him the US does not get involved in intra-Arab disputes – he took her at her word – and invaded Kuwait.
It was only when the Saudi’s started getting nervous that Bush 41 double-crossed Saddam and concocted Gulf War I as a solution.
While Saddam allegedly tried to whack Bush 41 (the traditional response to being double-crossed – think of Bush as Tony Soprano and Saddam as Paulie Walnuts) – Saddam – as far as we can tell – never had any delusions about attacking the United States of America.
Saddam was a reliable minion – but we sent him a mixed message and then punished him for it.
The situation in Iraq now – long-term – is strategically far worse for the US.
By the way, since the surge is so “massive” and “intense,” maybe it’s time for the wing-nuts to resurrect the phrase “Shock and Awe.” That may have only marked the beginning of this misbegotten disaster, but the it gave the wing-nuts chills every time they heard it. And isn’t helping wing-nuts get their rocks off all this fiasco has ever been about?
For those who do not know what ‘fascism’ is:
“A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.”
There is no restriction that fascists cannot use religion as part of their dogma. Radical Islam portends to be “a nation” wherein their brand of theology will rule the world under one caliphate. Their nationalism and theology are so intertwined there is no need to split hairs.
Islamo-Fascists (with the hyphen to show I combining to concepts) is a completely accurate description. Especially if you focus on the brutality they impose on non-believers.
It is governance by force. What excuse they sue to rationalize their brutality is irrelevant to me.
Sooth
Just a cut from here
I know it says likely, but geez fool this is a very dynamic situation much bigger than you can probably even grasp.
Iraqi Armored units are likely taking up blocking positions along the Tigris River to prevent al Qaeda fighters from crossing into neighboring Salahadin province. The long guns and heavy machine guns on the armor allow the Iraqi forces to protect the bridge crossings and take out barges and craft used to cross the river. A curfew has been imposed on the province of Diyala, which likely includes instructions to keep off the rivers. This strategy has been employed by Multinational Division Central, which destroyed a barge on the Tigris river near Salman Pak south of Baghdad. The craft was being used to smuggle “ammunition and bomb-making materials into Baghdad.’
Soothsayer
You’re right. My excuse is I was playing my cards too close to the vest, which isn’t really necessary when “dialoguing” with such as Dale.
But let me ask you–I read also at the time, and forwarded as probable more than once-that the US tricked the Sauds, with doctored intelligence, into believing Saddam was on the verge of attacking them.
1. Have/had you heard this theory?
2. Give it any credibility?
We can probably agree that the likes of Dale would justify such a tactic and/or would not confirm its veracity.
AJ-
Iraq under Saddam was pretty close to fascism – no doubt about it – but he was ourlong time ally until Bush 41 double-crossed him – and the B’aathists are secular.
Syria is another regime that could be termed fascism – but Syria, like Iraq, is secular – so the Islamo-part doesn’t apply.
al-Qaeda doesn’t govern ANYTHING – they are garden variety terrorists – so to call them Islamo-Fascist would not meet the qualifying threshhold, would be plain stupid AND incorrect. Additionally – al-Qaeda is not nationalistic.
To be “fascism” – as you noted – requires governance. So Hamas is out. Maybe Fatah, now, too.
Pakistan – our ally – is a predominantly Islamic military dictatorship – and probably the closest thing to true fascism BUT- the present regime is secular – so while Pakistan is arguably our fascist ally – it’s not Islamo-fascist – cause its not fundamentalist Islamically religious in nature.
Why don’t you help us out and point out a government or group that you think meets the definition of “Islamo-fascist”.
Cause, otherwise, it’s just another imprecise, pejorative, inflammatory term being thrown around by people who don’t have a clue what they’re talking about.
Talking pre-Gulf War of course.
It’s certainly a minor point – but I so wanted to show Dale that there can be disagreement between sentient beings without causing foaming at the mouth and the other bizarre manifestations of hebephrenia that possess him when his tiny belief system is stressed.
Sooth said
al-Qaeda doesn’t govern ANYTHING – they are garden variety terrorists – so to call them Islamo-Fascist would not meet the qualifying threshhold, would be plain stupid AND incorrect. Additionally – al-Qaeda is not nationalistic.
_________
Geez what a faulty argument, AQ is trans-national they want a caliphate which is a non border respecting entity.
Exactly the reason they are declared unlawful combatants in case you missed that little distinction.
You see declarations of war in the historic sense require a country you declare war on.
Keep digging.
Center-
As for the tricking the Sauds – it is entirely possible that once Saddam had jumped the shark and invaded Kuwait – the unbelievably greedy Bush family decided the time was ripe to double-cross Saddam – frighten the Saudis – make them beg us to protect them from the secualr evil of Saddam and move against him militarily – to occupy Kuwait and perhaps . . . even more.
Bush 41 – perhaps to his credit – blinked when faced with the prospect of taking Baghdad and all of its headaches – but we are working overtime to seize that oil. In any case – these idiot neocons have pi**ed in the soup and its not going to get set right for generations.
Sooth
could you turn your head a little bit, the reflection of the tin foil ain’t a pretty sight.
It is pretty damn sad when you have American troops on one side of the fight and AlQaida on the other and there are still people in this country who can not decide which ones are the good guys.
hint: it is the guys with the American flags on their sleeves.
I believe Saddam had the weapons and so did the UN as far as that is concerned. In fact it seems to me that it would be a lot easier for Saddam to have moved the weapons than it would have been for so many people to be so wrong.
Nonetheless, left to his own devices and free to wreak havoc Saddam could easily have reconstituted his weapons programs. Why else did he hide them?
And to say there were no links with AlQaida is ridiculous. Saddam gave hundreds of thousands of dollars to AlQaida and I doubt if it was just a goodwill gesture. In fact Saddam allowed them into the country and his Intelligence people had meetings with AlQaida back into the 90’s. In 98 the Clinton administration mentioned a connection to Iraq in its indictment of AlQaida members in the embassy bombings.
Saddam was an evil man and I am not sad he is gone.
As for the fight against AlQaida, it will take time. They will try to come back and take territory, they will try to intimidate ordinary people into tolerating their presence. However, the only way to stop them is to resist them.
The fact that it is difficult is not a reason to give up and run away.
Sooth is revising history again.
Bush 41 didn’t take Baghdad because he kept within the confines of the UN Resolution he was acting under.
More spin from the No Win Zone.
sooth:
Bush 41 did not blink.
He did not have the support from Congress or the UN to go into Baghdad. Because of that lack of support hundreds of thousands of Shia lost their lives.
Because of that lack of support we went through the 90’s with its on again off again inspections, Saddam’s lies and his murders of his own family members for telling his secrets, the sanctions which were hard on the Iraqi people and the oil for food scandal which turned out to be the largest heist in history.
There would not have been Iraqi Liberation Act which most Democrats just pretend not to remember today.
Zarqawi would not have gone to Iraq from Afghanistan after the Taliban fell.
Everyone would have been better off if they had taken out Saddam years earlier.
The infrastructure would have not been so destroyed, the people would have not have suffered as much and the divisions in the society might not have been so intense.
In any event, a man like Saddam was not going well.
Oh, yeah-as if the UN sanction meant anything to Bush.
No WMDS no link with al Qaeda-both reports verified for the umptee nth time again officially days ago. Scott Ritter had it right early on as did Hans Blix who says in his autobiography Saddam was more honest than either Bush or Bliar!
Terry blathers
“It is pretty damn sad when you have American troops on one side of the fight and AlQaida on the other and there are still people in this country who can not decide which ones are the good guys.”
tell it to Prime Minister Maliki who opposes the arming of Sunni tribes against al Qaeda, predicting worse Sunni domestic
insurgency as a result.
and tell it to the majority of all Iraqis who have told us to get out, that they can do a better job of ousting al Qaeda than the US.
TCCH
Duh
Most of the UN Mandates for taking Saddam down didn’t even mention WMD’s , if I recall correctly only 1 or 2 did.
Your hanging your hat on a weak thread that shouted by your side because it ignores all the other reasons.
Well at least you can remember your talking points.
One of the biggest dilemmas for the U.S. all along has been that the Bush administration only ever planned for a relatively quick and easy victory. Now they’re telling us that we all should be patient and not give up. At the same time, however, they’re still the ones who aren’t planning ahead. They’re still pretending that victory is just around the corner—or at least that’s what they’re telling us—and they’ve done absolutely nothing to ready either the military or the public for the more realistic scenario of a long-haul campaign. Why? Because they lack the courage to tell the American people that planning for such a contingency—if we are to continue fighting in Iraq as they want—will involve spending even more money than we currently are to ensure our units’ combat readiness long-term, and instituting something like the draft to come up with enough troops to see their plans through (we can’t continue sending back the current crop of soldiers forever, can we?). In the meantime, the administration has lost the public’s trust and support because of just this kind of political cowardice and lack of candor.
So we’re stuck with an administration that won’t dare ask the nation for the resources to even attempt the “vision” they supposedly have for Iraq (“delusion” is more like it), and a nation so fed up with the B.S. that they wouldn’t give it to them anyway. Because it’s the only option they have left, the administration will continue trying to fight this war “on the cheap,” hinting that victory is just another three months away. Meanwhile, our soldiers will continue to dangle like meat puppets in the middle of somebody else’s civil war. Too bad the neocons couldn’t have simply seen up-front the likely contingency that this campaign would cost more than it was worth. Don’t blame the the vast majority of Americans for having rightly made such a calculation. What a shame. Imagine what we could have done with all that money and all those lost lives if we had only left Iraq alone.
GD
You don’t have a clue as to how this is working.
We need troops for the surge yes, if you were able to grasp the tactics involved, but we are standing up troops there to do their own thing for their own country, we don’t need a draft.
I don’t care how swell or crappy this whole thing went, it takes years to build an army from scratch.
The timing was now because of political considerations, another year would have been good to put more numbers on our side of the fight and better seasoned locals.
Think once in a while, it doesn’t hurt I promise.
For anyone who is interested in the facts involving why the US went into Iraq, here is a link to the actual resolution. It is not long, but there is a lot more to it all than WMD.
I think the war was inevitable. Saddam tried to kill a president, obviously he was in no mood for a peaceful resolution.
For some additional background this is a link to the Iraqi Liberation Act which passed the US Senate unanimously in October 1998. Note that it calls for the removal of Saddam Hussein from power.
Tell me something GD
What do you think it would take to 100% pure stop the crime of murder in the good ole USA.
You aren’t, there are always gonna be in house murder suicides.
Even with a cop on every corner you may be able to reduce drive by’s and drug related killings.
Seriously think for once and draw conclusions from the data you see every day.
Quit being a left of center fortune cookie reader.
The administration’s supporters are chastising the rest of us for not having enough patience (“it takes years to build a military from scratch”), but the real issue is that this military campaign is not sustainable, in terms of manpower, equipment, funding, or political support from Americans or Iraqis! The administration’s own rhetoric is even self-contradictory. Is victory just three months away, or will we have to keep up the current force at a minimum for another five or ten years or longer? If the latter turns out to be the case (what do you think is more likely?), then why isn’t the administration making realistic preparations to handle such a contingency? How can you ask Americans to support this campaign when the administration itself can’t even make certain that it’s sustainable and can’t even make an honest and forthright request from the nation for what they think it would take?
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/iraq/story/17213.html
Merlin, you’re a fool. The “trainees” are largely private militia who have no intention of doing Iraq’s bidding when trained–they will do tribal and ethnic bidding–and it will all be anti-American, whatever the internal disputes that will be fought out bloodily.
As this link only scratches the surface of….
Terrye
The UN did not give final approval for the invasion and Bush is a war criminal, indictable at the Hague. By the way “center” did not find that on a lefty blog and repeat it. The last surviving judge at Nuremberg said it.
Dale
You hit a nerve with the trolls bigtime. Too bad they were not among the banned.
BarbaraS: there’s three things Leftist Trolls CANNOT stand:
1) TRUTH
2) FACTS
3) Sunlight (it’s painful to cockroaches!)
But even though it’s AJ’s Blog, I’m against Banning them; there is no greater recruitment tool for the “Right”, than reading what the Nutbags write!
It’s just too classic…
Soothie said:
to occupy Kuwait and perhaps . . . even more.
Just for the record Soothie, how long did the US ‘occupy’ Kuwait? I don’t remember hearing a lot about it back at the time? Was it a long time?
Just making statements like that are enough to keep most of us laughing for a while…..
Center:
The Hague??? Oh puhleaze, Saddam was called the Butcher of Baghdad for a reason and the UN is in no position to be lecturing anyone.
You are a supporter of Ron Paul right?? You are also proof that there is not a dime’s worth of difference between the far right and the far left.
Not one dime.
BTW, Roger Simon has a post about how there are only 2 votes in the House against a measure condemning Iran. Kuccinich and Paul. It must be love. 411-2.
Terrye: well done!! It is “young Nutbags in Love”!
Ratdale says
“But even though it’s AJ’s Blog, I’m against Banning them; there is no greater recruitment tool for the “Right”, than reading what the Nutbags write!”
Americans who identify themselves as on the conservative Right
have turned steadily agaisnt the Iraq War–with little help from me
and my kind. The debacle on the battlefield was quite enough to
send the support from 80% to 45% for “rightists.”
Spook,,, for sure
FE, ya gotta admit, though, Center/Ken has definitely lowered the standards for what we consider entertainment.
Damn Dale, how did Soothie/Ken find out
like Dale in Atlanta is the TS/codeword equivalent of Jack Bauer.
hey centerbunghole
Americans who identify themselves as on the conservative Right
have turned steadily agaisnt the Iraq War–with little help from me
baloney, I’m an American Conservative and I have not been, even for one minute, against the Iraq war. Quit getting your poll results from KOS.
I have to admit a pollster would probably hang up on your
crochety psycho ass ,believing they has misdialed and got a ward.
I have to admit a pollster would probably hang up on your
crochety psycho ass ,believing they misdialed and got a ward.
The debacle on the battlefield was quite enough to
send the support from 80% to 45% for “rightists.”
Ah,…yeah, okay, keep believing it….chirp……chirp……chirp…..
More “Zobee” Polls, Nutbag?
Of cousre, won’t get that Pun, because it’s in Arabic, but that’s okay, I couldn’t expect any actual knowledge or experience out of an Anti-American, Pro-Jihadi, Anti-Semitic Nutbag, Leftist Loon, could I then?
I happen to know several parents whose kids stationed in Iraq openly say few Iraqis like them or want them there, say no Iraqs can be trusted and who express absolute puzzlement as to why they are there.
What are the families’ names? What service branches are their adult children (not “kids”) serving in?
I think that it is possible that you don’t even know what “fascism” is, do you?….Corporately controlled government…that is the basis of Fascism. It is ok to have your own opinion, but not your own facts.
Don’t quote the late Patrick Moynihan unless your own facts are factual. You have it exactly backwards. Fascism involves government controlled corporations. I.G. Farben, Krupp and other German corporation didn’t quite tell the Nazis what to do. Actually, one of the reasons why Germany lost the war was precisely because the Nazis told the corporations what to do, instead of as in the US, where flexible entrepreneurs competed for military contracts. While Henry Kaiser figured out how to turn cargo hulls into escort carriers, Ford switched from passenger cars to building B-24 bombers at Willow Run, and Chrysler mass produced tanks at the Detroit Arsenal Tank Plant, Nazi planners assigned tank production to traditional German manufacturers of heavy equipment who were used to producing relatively low production numbers. Germany produced about 23,000 Panzer, Panther and Tiger variants. By comparison, the US produced about 90,000 tanks during WWII.
Mechanized brigades are great for invading and seizing ground. During a prolonged and ill-advised occupation, they are tin death traps, as the troopers well know.
And instead of recognizing the flexibility of US troop tactics in switching to less vulnerable to IED foot patrols, as the article you cited describes, you choose to ignore it.
It’s good that you weren’t around in 1944, when Sherman tanks were true death traps going against the superior German tanks.
voxampguy
It figures that you would get your facts wrong. Everyone knows that the Fender Bassman is the holy grail of amps. While the AC-30 is a great amp and a major part of the British invasion sound, the simple fact is that after Jimi got to London just about all the great Brit guitarists switched to Marshalls, which are based on the Bassman circuitry.
You’re a political sociopath masquerading as a patriot, Dale-rat.
How you taking the last three dozen kayos of US troops? Ooops,
I answered my own question; sociopaths cannot feel regret.
Your casual dismissal of the loss of US soldiers (”kayos”) shows that you revel in their deaths.
(the traditional response to being double-crossed – think of Bush as Tony Soprano and Saddam as Paulie Walnuts)
Even your Sopranos analogy is off. Paulie Walnuts never tried to whack Tony. Tony never double-crossed Paulie, though Paulie did feel unappreciated by the boss. The closest he came to betraying Tony was when he tried to curry favor with Carmine Sr., who hardly recognized him and Paulie slinked back to Tony.
Additionally – al-Qaeda is not nationalistic.
Actually, they are uber nationalistic in that they seek to establish a worldwide caliphate under the hegemony of the Muslim “ummah”. Ummah is Arabic for “nation”. They are so nationalistic, that they claim the term ummah for themselves exclusively and deny that Jews (described in the Hebrew bible as an “am”, the Hebrew cognate of ummah) are a nation.
Bozoer rebbe
Well, I don\’t deny Jews are a nation (within a nation) historically;
Napolean also noted this.
\”Your casual dismissal of the loss of US soldiers (?kayos?) shows that you revel in their deaths.\”
Scrutinize Strata\’s archives for the past few years. He\’s so
casual about the losses he goes out of his way never to mention them specifically. As the Bushies forbade media from Dover, Rebbe,
hoping Americans wouldn\’t notice.
And \”outing\” my contacts–yeah, such as you would love to
put the most plaintaive on the most dangerous missions, wouldn\’t you?
And \”outing\” my contacts–yeah, such as you would love to
put the most plaintaive on the most dangerous missions, wouldn\’t you?
No, if I was a military commander, I’d assign the most competent people regardless of their political beliefs (providing they were within the normal spectrum of US political ideologies). More to the point, without identifying your sources, you have no credibility.
Also, I wonder how those putative parents with “kids” in Iraq (I love how the left infantilizes our soldiers) would feel, if their sons or daughters were killed in action, God forbid, and you told them how their offspring were “kayo’d”.
Bozoer rebbe
Well, I don\’t deny Jews are a nation (within a nation) historically;
Napolean also noted this.
I never said the you did, but many, if not most, Muslims do. In Islam, Jews can only exist as subservient second class citizens, forced to pay head taxes to fund Muslim wars of aggression.
However, I did notice that you avoided my main point, that far from not being nationalistic, AQ wants to establish a worldwide Muslim empire, where the Ummah, the Muslim nation, is sovereign.
Regarding:
“The Surge was not just an effort to bring in a lot more troops to walk the streets and man checkpoints. It was meant to clear or purge large areas of the Islamo Fascists so as to reduce the violence in and around Baghdad – where 80% of the violence was taking place. It is a very large operation where the Diyala campaign, called Arrowhead Ripper, is just one element:”
Revelation! The Insurgency must truly be on its last legs!