Jun 25 2007
Immigration Bill Or Nothing
Want 5-10 more years of the currently broken down immigration system and impotent laws? Side with the Amnesty Hypochondriacs in the GOP because if they succeed and tank the immigration Bill in the Senate there will be no new legislation on this issue for the remainder of Bush’s term and well into the next President’s term (because what new President would risk a chance at a second term on immigration reform?).
The bipartisan backers of the legislation, including President Bush, have spent the interim trying to build support for the measure and believe they have the votes to at least restart the debate if not approve it. But opponents intend to pull out the stops.
“We’re going to use every effort to slow this process down and continue to hold up the bill and read it to the American people and show them that even though they may favor the ideals of the legislation, that the legislation won’t get us there,†Senator Jeff Sessions, Republican of Alabama and a leading opponent, said Sunday on ABC’s “This Week.â€
Session and his hypochondriac buddies have no alternative, so all they can do is hope to stick us with this mess for the next decade or so. They cannot abide the penalties in this bill for the long term illegal aliens who have not committed any serious crime. They are so obsessed with getting the nannies and cooks with more than fines and back taxes they are willing to leave what is easily over a million hardened criminals on our streets to prey on our children. That is a serious obsession – something the rest of us do not need to wallow in.
If you want to see ten more years of alien criminals on our streets support the amnesty hypochondriacs. They believe the current laws are like Aladdin’s Lamp – just use them and miracles will happen! If you want to have the 12 million illegals who are here now to remain in the underground economy and NOT paying taxes and a share of the public services they use – for another ten years no less – support the hypochondriacs. Just like a normal hypochondriac who loves nothing better than to stew in a fantasy world of illness, too many in the GOP would rather we all stew in a mess of an immigration system than take steps to fix the situation.
Are there things not covered in the Bill? Of course – there is no magic bullet out there. Is it perfect? No such thing exists unless you are the hypochondriac awaiting the perfect solution. Does the bill make some leaps forward – yep. But if you love the way things are now, happy to have over a million convicted illegal alien criminals on our streets, and would love to wallow in this for another ten years then by all means, destroy the only chance to make progress. Remember these people have no alternative except perpetuating our current mess.
Not what I would call visionary, but that is all they have now. Tomorrow we will see who wiins, the hypochondriacs are America.
Speaking of “immigration hypochondriacs”; here’s a whole bunch of them: Frustrated by the Federal Govt NOT doing it’s job, States pass a record number of laws aimed at ILLEGALS, with more to come!
Kind of sad, when the States have to do the job of the US Govt, because it is so corrupt, and so out of touch with the Voters!
So true Dale,
In fact if we lose this bill it will only get worse and the states will give us a patchwork of inconsistency which will keep the courts busy for a century – and the immigrant criminals in our system indefinitely.
It is this or nothing and everyone knows it – except the hypochondriacs!
AJ: I agree with you on one point; every State Immigration law that is passed, will end up in Federal Court, and maybe even the Supreme Court; it will be years worth of legal actions, as the “Open Borders” nuts, challenge every single State Law on Immigration Restriction!
AJ: you’re missing one other point though; over the weekend, it was reported that members of the “Leftist Treasonous Seditionist Party” (that’s the party formerly known as the “The Democratic Party”) are opposing the Immigration Bill as well, growing numbers of them in fact not only the Senate, but definitely in the House as well.
Their rational??
The Senate bill, as it now stands, is TOO TOUGH!
So, they’re approach is to let the Republicans take the “fall” for voting no on Cloture, but in fact, they’re against the Bill as well, because they say that Kennedy and other members of the “LTSP” have sold out the ILLEGALS, and actually adopted “too tough” of restrictions, in order to make a compromise with the President and the Republicans.
So, just don’t blame this all on the Republicans AJ; “LTSP” members are against it too, and for, as is typical of them, Anti-American reasons!
Dale, what AJ is telling us is that unless the amnesty pimps get what they want they will continue the status quo which is really doing nothing and not insisting the administration enforce our current laws. This is the deal. It’s this or it’s more of the same. Of course, we have already seen what 40 years of legislation promoted by Teddy Kennedy and lack of enforcement from every administration since LBJ has brought us.
AJ would have you believe that there are no laws currently that a) call for a secure border; b) give us the authority to deport illegals simply because they are illegal; c) prosecute those illegals who commit crimes or d) prosecute employers who violate federal law by hiring illegals.
What is going to happen is that states are going to enact their own laws and the feds, like the worst driver in the world, Teddy Kennedy, will continue to sing to the illegals while we pay for their education, incarceration and social welfare.
So AJ continues to tell a people who put a man on the moon, invented the LCD, stormed the beaches at Normandy and created the greatest economy ever known by man that this is the “best” we can do.
We are to believe that THIS time, our elected elite are serious about doing something about illegal immigration. Well, they are doing something about it. They are eliminating it by making everyone legal, allowing 24 hours for a background check before they get their “probationary” status which can last for years. AJ keeps harping on “back taxes” but refuses to quote the section of the bill that says they will pay back taxes. In fact, illegals, who will now be in the nation legally with a “probationary” visa, are not required to pay any back taxes until they apply for citizenship. So actually, the status quo of under-the-table wages and no payment of taxes will continue.
Never have I seen anyone who has hacked for a bill so hard who seems to be totally unaware of what the bill actually says.
We are to believe that a system that cannot even provide passports to LEGAL citizens will be able to process 12-20 applications with ease and efficiency. Believe that and I have some ocean front property in Arizona to sell you.
Here is a novel idea; enforce the current laws. Protect Americans. Prosecute employers who violate the law. Stop social welfare services to those who have no right to be in the U.S. in the first place.
Then we have the environmentalists fighting us all the way to the US Supreme Court!
GGGRrrr!!!
Didn’t Truman have a great quote about our immigrants? He expected immigrants to assimilate themselves into our own society and abide by our laws. Not introduce Shari’ah law in parallel with our US law!!
R05: you KNOW, I agree with you a 100%!
I’m just not fighting with AJ over this issue any more.
It’s his Blog, and he’s adopted his position, and he’s bound and determined thru sheer dint of will, to pound us into the ground with it.
That’s fine; I’ve just decided not to fight him on this issue anymore, and instead, focus on the issues we agree upon, such as Iraq.
But I hear you, and you know I agree.
Dale, what I would like is a little honesty. Honesty about what the bill ACTUALLY says; honesty from the elected elites who are pushing this travesty of a bill by saying “if you don’t get this, you will get more of the same apathy toward securing our borders, enforcing our laws and prosecuting criminals” and honesty from AJ as to why he supports a bill that it is so obvious he has not completely read.
With millions of Americans who have taken the time to read the 800 pound gorilla, it would seem to me that someone who wants to tout it’s benefits would be willing to show the text of the bill that supports that opinion. Instead, what we get are talking points. How many times have I asked AJ to provide the text of the bill that shows WHEN these newly minted “legals” would pay back taxes? As to date, no response. I can only assume that AJ has read that part of the bill and realizes that it doesn’t provide for any back taxes for “probationary” visas so he continues to offer up his talking points of “my way or the highway”.
[blockquote]AJ keeps harping on “back taxes†but refuses to quote the section of the bill that says they will pay back taxes.[/blockquote]
What makes these illegal immigrants from reporting to IRS every year?
If they apply for US citizenship, how can we prove the length of their stay in USA? All they can say is that they stayed one month, especially if they are working on a farm and paid under the table.
There is no way to force illegal immigrants into paying backtaxes based on their actual length of stay, regardless of existence or absence of law.
R05,
I have read and still support it. Stop pretending you know anything about me – you don’t. I have said many times I do not believe in your tooth fairy of perfection. It will be a great start and I am for another round later this year to ADD to it.
Only hyppochondriacs see failure a success and only because they cannot let go of the idea 12 million immigrants can pay fines and back taxes and become legal. I have never and will never be so obsessed about an illegal nanny I would leave a serial killer on the streets. That is why I am proudly FOR this bill. And that is why the GOP should be ashamed to even pretend failure is a good thing.
Ro5: AJ has, I think, made it clear, that the only reason he supports this bill, is that he things by it passing, the Hispanics will suddendly start voting Republican in greater numbers than they do for the “LTSP”, and thus, ensure a Republican in the WH in 2008; and a return to control of Congress by the Republicans as well.
That is the only reason, I’ve been able to fathom, from AJ’s many posts on the subject, for his support of the bill.
I’ve asked him if their is any other reason(s); but never got an answer, so I don’t know if he has other reasons at this time.
Now for me, that is not good enough reason; the Hispanics are never going to vote for Republican’s in greater numbers than for the “LTSP”; because just like other minorities, they’ll vote for the people who promise them the most Free stuff; that’s just the way it is, and they will always be the case.
The fact that Bush, in 2000, and in 2004, made some inroads into the Hispanic Voting bloc, is actually an aberation, not a longterm trend, and thus I personally thing AJ’s believe in this is a mirage; it’s his belief, and he holds it dear!
We can argue until the cows come home on this, but in the end, only the results will prove who is correct.
Aside from AJ and President Bush’s completely perplexing attitudes towards this; I’m just flabbergasted at the stances taken by people such as Graham of SC, Lott of Mississippi, and of course John McCain!
It’s as if they have completely lost their minds.
IF they want support the bill; even though I disagree with portions of it; that’s not a problem to me; everyone will have their own opinion.
What I don’t understand, is the hate, and words they have used, including those of President Bush, towards their most vehement supporters, who have stuck with them thru thick and thin, and in return, they get called names!
Disagree, fine, but the name calling is just perplexing to me!
The latest Rasmussen poll results out this morning…
Rasmussen: Just 22% Favor Stalled Immigration Bill
As the Senate prepares to resume debate the “comprehensive†immigration reform bill, the legislation continues to face broad public opposition. In fact, despite a massive White House effort, public opinion has barely moved since the public uproar stalled the bill just over two weeks ago.
HARD TO KEEP SAYING IT’S CONSERVATIVES.
The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey found that just 22% of American voters currently favor the legislation. That’s down a point from 23% a couple of weeks ago and down from 26% when the debate in the Senate began. Fifty percent (50%) oppose the Senate bill while 28% are not sure.
Among the public, there is a bi-partisan lack of enthusiasm for the Senate bill. It is supported by 22% of Republicans, 23% of Democrats, and 22% of those not affiliated with either major party. It is opposed by 52% of Republicans, 50% of Democrats, and 48% of unaffiliateds.
From an ideological perspective, the bill is opposed by 59% of conservatives, 54% of liberals, and 45% of political moderates. Among those for whom none of the traditional ideological labels apply, just 20% are opposed.
Support is found from 20% of conservatives, 32% of liberals, and 18% of moderates.
Just 32% believe it would be better to pass the current bill instead of doing nothing. Forty-five percent (45%) believe it would be better to pass nothing at all.
If the current bill passed, 71% of American voters believe that another bill would be required to focus on securing the border and reducing illegal immigration. That’s up from 65% in our previous survey.
No Dale, that is not why I support the bill. It is one of many good reasons to pass it, but I doubt now the Hispanics can tolerate the ugliness of the far right. I know I can’t. I suggest you all refrain from trying to read my mind. You all are abysmal at it.
The Hispanics and many moderates conservatives are going to distance themselves from the GOP. Too ugly, too vindicative, too unhinged. Progress is better than what the GOP has to offer us.
So, Dale, what do you propose instead of this bill in solving the illegal immigration issue or do you believe we don’t have an issue with illegal immigration?
Can you come up with a perfect bill that will satisfy everyone OTHER than obtaining votes to win the next election?
Heading out for today, lot’s to do.
But I had one thought:
In a war against terrorists, would you not have thought that on 9/12 the president should have given a speech advocating Border Security. In fact, should that have not been an equal priority? They don’t wear a Uniforn, so there is no way to distinguish them from anyone else crossing BOTH Borders. It just seems to me it should have been an equal priority from the get go. I would think someone in the Pentagon, the FBI, THE NSA, THE CIA, perhaps all of them, would have said to the Pres. “Mr. President, we must secure our borders, as these people can now come at will across them”, or something to that effect.
Take Care folks, wish I could stick around, but I can’t.
You’re right, AJ. I know little about you. But by the same token, you seem to know little about me. You have pointed out that my opinion would change if I had someone I knew victimized by an illegal. I pointed out to you I have, three people dead by the hands of an illegal who not only crossed our borders at will, but also voted THREE TIMES IN A FEDERAL ELECTION.
Tell me, AJ, what part of this bill protects us from serial killers or child pedophiles? What is the text? Tell me what part says they will pay back taxes in order to get “probationary” status as legal? Your “illegal nanny” catagory could be equally applied to “illegal pizza delivery boy”. Just a simple job at low wages. Hello! Fort Dix Six?
Instead of saying “this is the part of the bill I like and this is the part of the bill I don’t like” you hand out talking points like soldier’s hand out Hershey bars to Iraqi children. You ignore the fact that what Congress gives, Congress can take away, such as the length of the fence that was agreed on last year that has now been dwindled down to slightly more than half. But continuing to take off your blinders, you still have faith that our elected elite, who live in gated communities and not in the real America, will FOR THE FIRST TIME, do what they claim they will do. Perhaps the rest of the nation agrees with you and that accounts for the approval rating of the Congress being in the toilet?
All politics are local; and personal. I have been honest in telling you why I disagree with this bill. Too bad I can’t expect the same from you.
To me the bill has many issues that need to be addressed to fix it as much as possible if it passes.
However I wish to point out that even if it passes , no matter what form if anyone thinks it is going to stop illegal immigration they are probably wrong.
As long as Mexico , just choosing one example, has the population growth it has and a government that does not seem to be able to really do the right thing and develop an economy that can support their available workforce the problem will persist.
The gaping loophole here will be two fold.
Chain migration authorized under the bill and visa overstays.
Even if every illegal comes forward to register, there is no way the country can enforce the “continuous work” requirement of the zvisa process.
If a worker doesn’t fit up, he gets a notice letter or his visa is deactivated and then it’s just back to the underground economy.
Companies will document some fraction of their workers as using the new visas but still hire under the table.
Who is going to be able to audit every 7-11 or whatever. Sure you will get the larger concentrations like chicken plucking places but there are so many other smaller places that will totally slip under the radar.
To suggest that neo-legal card holders who break laws suffer instant deportation is less than realistic, since they still have to go through the same deportation systems.
Once semi-legalized I find it hard to believe that lawbreakers will just be tossed across the border without some semblance of “due process”.
Lurker: you know better than to say this: “.. or do you believe we don’t have an issue with illegal immigration?”
I’ve discussed many times my own personal experiences with ILLEGALS, we all KNOW we have a problem with ILLEGALS; the problem is, what to do about it.
We have two extremes in this country; the one side wants to Deport them all, which is not reasonable for a host of reasons, economic as well as practicality.
The other side doesn’t even believe in a United States per se, and sovereignty, and want Open Borders to not only dilute the Caucasian nature of America, but to hopefully, down the line, actually destroy it.
In between, we have a whole host of slightly lesser Loons, such at the Sanctuary nuts, and the Leftist Catholics; who want to import “Catholic” Hispanics, to make up for the fact they’ve driven their own flocks away beacause of rampant pedeophilia in the church, etc.
Then we have the Trent Lott types, who’s bought off by Corporate America, the Tysons and Hormels and the Construction giants, who want and need steady supplies of cheap, ILLEGALS, to depress wages and and keep unions at bay, etc.
So, how do we fit all this disperate into one comprehensive bill?
You’re asking me, as if I’m some type of Political miracle worker!
Personally, I think it’s impossible, but that’s just me.
But, I really don’t see what’s wrong, with as a first step:
a) Utilizing the Laws that already ARE on the books, and Enforce the Border, and I mean, ENFORCE IT
b) Enforce Workplace verification laws
c) Quadruple the Border Guard, and actually Build the damn Fence
d) Double the personnel in the INC or whatever it is called these days?
e) and then, do this:
Tell EVERY ILLEGAL, to come forward, and get a Tamper-Proof Biometric ID Card, as well as Tamper Proof Biometric SSN number.
Make sure that ALL Employers are tied into a central DB, for checking Verifiable SSN’s; and that there is a $100,000 Fine, PER INCIDENT, of Hiring ILLEGALS!
Give EVERY ILLEGAL that card, and it is a “Right to work Card”; with it, they can seek Legal Employment in the US!
But, as punishment for being here ILLEGALLY (if they are here Legally, they can Prove it already), but as punishment for being here ILLEGALLY; they are NOT entitled to a “Pathway to Citizenship”; in fact the Card is ONLY for Work Authorization; NOT a “Green Card” nor anything that leads to Citizenship; and additionally, even though they start to work Legally, they are NOT entitled to Social Security Benefits, nor Welfare nor Foodstamps nor Medicaid nor any other types of Govt assistance.
That’s the punishments they pay for Being here ILLEGALLY; that’s in addition to the already discussed $5000 fine.
Back taxes is a joke; how do you prove that; if they’re using fake ID already to work, or none at all?
That will never work; and the people putting it into the bill, know it; it’s just to fool us dumbasses into thinking they’re trying to be tough.
So, the fine, and the punishments I listed above, are REAL punishments.
Now, IF an “ILLEGAL” gets this Worker Card, and wants to become a Citizen, not just have Work authorization, that is when they have to Go Home, to their country of Origin, and stay for a year, and apply to come here Legally like everyone else.
Only then, will they be eligible for a “Pathway to Citizenship”, and all the other Benefits of Citizenship.
Additionally, when they get that “Work Authorization” card, they’re being tracked in a Central DB, and IF they show now Work Activity after 3 months, i.e. they are NOT working/getting paid, then the Work Authorization is revoked, and they’re deported!
Now, the system I suggest, actually makes sense; gives people an incentive to come forward and get at least “ID’d”; gives them the right to work Legally; but it does NOT “reward” them with any Benefits nor Citizenship in anyway.
I’m sure it can be tweaked in some manner, I’m not an expert on this, obviously, but I feel that a plan kinda like that, makes more sense than what we have, and what is currently being proposed, which means it stands NO CHANCE of ever being implemented!
And, as soon as I post this, you’ll all attack it, and point out all the weaknesses and impracticalities, so I’m pointing out, upfront, it is OBSIOUSLY not perfect, nor comprehensive, but you’re asking me what I think, and this are just some random thoughts I’ve been tossing around for the past couple of weeks in my mind!
Deconstruct away!
No Dale, that is not why I support the bill. It is one of many good reasons to pass it, but I doubt now the Hispanics can tolerate the ugliness of the far right. I know I can’t. I suggest you all refrain from trying to read my mind. You all are abysmal at it.
AJ: I’m not trying to read your mind, nor am I lousy at that.
You, yourself, have said in multiple posts, that you support his bill because without it, the “Reps/conservatives” lose the “Hispanic Vote” and thus will consign themselves to the dustbin of history, WITHOUT the Hispanic Vote!
YOU’VE SAID IT AJ; about a dozen times, or more; I didn’t invent it, nor make it up, nor attempt to read your mind about it; YOU SAID IT!
And that is the only reason you’ve ever given that I can fathom, except a two weeks or so ago, in support of that position, you came up with your new meme, that NOT supporting this bill, leaves “killers” on the street; which is a complete and Utter Falsehood by the way, but I’ve decided to just let that one pass, because everyone here knows it’s just another attempt by you, to throw the bloodhounds off the sent.
But you’ve said it AJ, and everyone here, if they’re read your copious posts on this topic, can back that up!
I’m not going to take the time, to go back and pull out all the direct quotes; but they are there, for those who want to look for them.
I find it incredible, that you are now denying that you ever even said something like that??
So now the major concern is that Hispanics are going to distance themselves from the GOP? When did they ever support the GOP? Or do we just ignore the Pew Hispanic Research Center’s findings that 49% of Hispanics vote Democratic, historically, while only 20% vote Republican? Are we going to ignore that while 44% of Hispanics voted for Bush, it still was a majority (56%) that voted for Kerry?
Now, to further the talking points, we should be worried about a voter bloc that WE REPUBLICANS HAVE NEVER HAD? That all of a sudden, with legalizing 12-20 million people, we are going to garner a voter bloc that subscribes to a Pan-Am socialist or semi-socialist view of government? Who is kidding whom here?
It is not us “immigration realists”.