Jun 28 2007
Will The GOP Honor Representative Government?
There is a lot of speculation running out there that the immigration bill will fail its cloture vote test this morning. Clearly it will be close. But I think there are enough GOP members who honor the process of democracy more than winning on one issue. After years of bitching and moaning about how all conservatives want is an up-or-down vote on measures dear to them, and after years of Bush being in their corner for them, I think they will take salvaging the process over the immigration bill.
Why? Primarily because they are losing the battle and destroying the party. They are not convincing anybody. While Rassmussen runs polls about “amnesty” the polls about ‘guest workers’ and ‘paths to legal status’ show the same lopsided support. They know deep down the red herrings they floated failed and made them look either petty or like they keep grasping for technicalities to cover up for something. We had the canard no one does anything about the issue – while the bill’s opponents propose the “Do Nothing Now” strategy! That was irony at its best.
We had the myth we could not process criminal record checks from fingerprints in 24 hours because some people confused a passport with a fingerprint check. OK, so some are little less edcuated on the finer details of law enforcement (a surprising number of which hold law degrees – figures). We had the myth we couldn’t process 12 million fingerprint checks without serious investment. I busted that myth when I noted the FBI’s IAFIS fingerprint system, the largest in the world with connections to major international systems, had processed 100,000 prints a day. And it is easy to expand capacity. That made the check for criminal records a paltry 3 month affiar – if all the illegals came in on day one, which we know is unrealistic fantasy.
Recently a reader posted a real bizarre concern. Seems we are not a perfect species and we have imperfect systems. I guess Ted Kennedy was forced to admit our 97.5% accuracy rate in records management would create 300,000 errors if used on 12 million people. Oh well, I guess some people panic at the mention of typos. Heaven knows I create a lot of typos and I have seen the spelling police out there.
But this last example proved the silliness and vacuousness of the opponents. Some of the worst of the far right have likened illegal immigration to a cancer on our society. Hyperventilating as usual, it was a good analogy to address with the 97.5% accuracy rate. The deniers, the DO NOTHING NOW types, are pretty responding to the medicine for this supposed cancer by saying “no thanks, I will live with the cancer until I find a cure that is guaranteed 100% effective”. And people wonder why I call them ‘amnesty hypochondriacs”.
This bill will be more than 70% effective. I doubt it will reach 95% – but future adjustments can get it there. That range of 70-95% effective is damn good for new policy, but reasonable. It is not the doom and gloom fantasies of the far right and or the far left. So it is not the bane of our existence as the hypcochondriacs claim. The bane of our existence is hyperventilating exaggeration that insults wide swaths of this country who did nothing seriously wrong. THAT is what needs to deported – the unreasonable hate.
One of the worst myths from the far right is Mexico is a criminal, socialistic, disease ridden place which is trying take over this country. Mexico has its problems, but few countried on this planet have our standard of living. They are all lesser places to some degree. So using that as some reason to insult a people and a culture is the purist of the ugly American stereotypes and is why people hesitate our efforts to protect ourselves internationally. But even here at home that kind of biased rhetoric does damage. The irony of the far right’s arguments can be seen in the fact those people who left Mexico (and other places south), who left their families behind and wandered at great personal risk into a foreign land, did so because they too saw how much better America was. And they stayed and brought their family here and raised them because they wanted to share in the American dream. They were not bringing disease and crime, they were fleeing it.
So to claim those who come here illegally (and many legal residents and citizens once were here illegally) are the disease ridden criminals of a corrupt culture is as insulting and unfair as it gets. Every society has its criminals. At this point, with the ludicrous irony flying, I cannot help but note that Geoffrey Dhalmer (sp?), the human cannibal, was pure bread American. As I watch the far right turn on its own one could forgive someone from using the broad stroke exaggeration method of debate to make a connection!
But a better analogy is Tammy Faye Baker. When I hear Hannity whine about how he cannot believe what is happening in this country, and Laura Ingraham whine about process and procedure, all I see are Tammy Faye’s with dripping mascara running down their cheeks. They have cried ‘wolf’ so many times and nothing has been there that they have become comical. The ultimate irony in this comedy is the proposed solution: DO NOTHING NOW! This is such a bad situation and there is no hope in this bill the only answer is to do…..
Nothing! But of course when people point out the flaws in the opposition, the harm they are doing to the nation and the party, and the true bigots and racists in their midsts, the opposition goes Tammy-Faye on us. “El Presidente Jorge insulted us, the triator”. The irony is so thick it is amazing. So now we will see who are Senators, and who are Tammy-Faye’s crying out because they know God put them on this Earth to save America from the evil illegal aliens raising their families down the street, and of course from the dreaded typos in the government’s records. We have a choice. Either be serious and let America’s representative bodies VOTE on these measures, or listen to the hysterics for another 10 years.
I think a lot of people realize it is better to pass this, stop the civil war, and make more changes later. But then there are the suicidal ones who would be happy to fall on their sword and leave the GOP in the minority for decades – and see real amnesty arise when Dems take control of both houses of Congress and the Oval office. Because that is the choice they fail to see. This IS the best Hutchison, Chambliss and others will see in their lifetime. It is all down hill from here.
I suspect cooler heads will prevail, they will honor their core beliefs in representative government, many will honor a promise they made to El Presidente Jorge to give this thing a fair vote, and many will realize this is the best they will see for decades to come. That might tip the GOP from disaster. But what do I know. I thought they would avoid disaster in 2006. And right now they don’t even have people like me in their corner any more.
AJ, I have to disagree.
A good deal of the opposition has come from the way that this whole bill was run around the normal comittee and amendment process. It’s something that screams of SOMETHING Very Bad being slipped through.
And the idea of passing a bad bill and amending it later? You’ve been around long enough to know better than that. The inertia built up by a bad law is tremendous…and there are always people who benefit from bad legislation who will fight tooth and nail to defend it.
What is needed is to either send this bill through the normal process…or, better still, kill it dead as a doornail, flush it and all the animosity that it has garnered away, and start from scratch.
Which is not nearly as hard as you might suppose. As I’ve mentioned before, there is trade space. A Barrier Wall and serious assimilation efforts would buy legalization for illegal immigrants currently in the country. They would have to either leave quickly or pay a fine….and I would set that fairly high, and not bother trying to determine back taxes. Then really go after anyone who did NOT take advantage of the legalization period.
The key is the Barrier Wall. That is the sine qua non – NOTHING happens without it. Put that on the table first, and I think that everything else will fall into place.
I don’t see any chance of this bill passing anymore – even if it got through the Senate the House will spike it. Of course, there will never be any “barrier wall” either. I don’t think the Democrats will ever be able to pass an amnesty-only bill even if they are in the majority, however; I think we’ve reached a particularly poisonous moment in politics where both left and right are able to exercise an absolute veto over anything the other side proposes, which means drift, inaction, and endless infighting as far as the eye can see. (Your tax dollars at work!!!)
The only logical outcome of this mess is that the entire effort is going to collapse in acrimony and we’re going to spend another 10 – 20 years with things going on just as they are now. This issue has gotten way too poisonous for anyone to revisit in the forseeable future, and I don’t think this generation of legislaters will ever touch it again.
Now do I think this is a good outcome? No, hiding from problems until they get so big that they come and find you is generally not a wise course of action. But that’s what we’re choosing, and so we might as well plan for the consequences.
I’m glad I’m starting to feel separated from this whole mess or I’d be on my way to having a stroke over all this. I’m awaiting the vote today only to see what the blogosphere’s reaction will be. I’m guessing that if the cloture vote succeeds, the reaction will be near-apocalyptic, with lots of veiled suggestions that people who voted “aye” need to be “taken out by any means necessary.” And yet, this is only a vote to ALLOW an up-or-down vote on the hated bill.
(This is like the reaction to Harriet Miers, when people were yelling that she absolutely HAD to be stopped, stopped COLD, before she even got near the Senate, because if she somehow managed to push her way into the Senate before the judicial committee, why, it would be TOO LATE TO STOP HER! [rolling my eyes])
Aitch:
Thanks for the chuckle this muggy am. You hit the nail on the head.
AJ–
Funny how you’re complaining about conservatives “not honoring democracy” by not voting for cloture. What happened to all your “but it’s legal!” hysteria of Tuesday? Just wondrin…
“I am fine with it. It’s legal so it is fine with me.”
I’m wondering about the pork stuffed into the bill.
Is that OK too?
You know, since it’s legal and all.
Just askin’
>One of the worst myths from the far right is Mexico is a criminal, >socialistic, disease ridden place
Surely you would acknowledge that the Mexican government is a scummy racist cartel, would you not?
As for the pork: Look, we have a Democratic Congress now. Are we now supposed to go apeshit every time a bill comes up that has pork in it? I don’t like it, but I do understand that sometimes you have to pay a price to get what you want, or at least something you can live with, particularly in D.C., and particularly if your side isn’t running things there anymore.
I don’t think AJ understands what Representative Government means. It means that the people in some designated area elect someone to go to the seat of government and represent them, in two ways: 1. what is best for the people that elected him and 2. what is best for the country.
Now clearly, polls indicate that from70-80% are opposed to the bill, so from that perspective, representing that interest would be to not pass the bill. Now from the interest of the country. To pass a bill that makes the situation much worse, as this bill does is not in the interest of the country, so it should not be passed.
This is a Republic and it IS NOT majority rule. That’s why the Senate has rules that require Supermajorities for some votes, so that the majority CAN NOT always rule.
Passing this bill, would be similar to attempting to abolish slavery with just a majority vote. Like letting more illegals come in would be like just letting more slaves come in. while the MAJORITY might have been for that, it was not best for the country so it would rightfully be wise for the country to require a super majority in the Senate to allow slavery to continue.
This bill is no different, if we’re going to give amnesty to 12+ million people, it should require a super majority in the Senate to allow it.
That’s REPRESENTATIVE GOVERNMENT. Back room deals and bypassing the committee functions are NOT representative government.
So when AJ is saying this:
“Clearly it will be close. But I think there are enough GOP members who honor the process of democracy ”
he has lost sight of what representative government is and has gone off on a tangent about the “process of democracy” Nope AJ, representative government is a” process of republic” I’m gonna just assume you either didn’t attend your Civics classes or have forgotten some to the subjects you had.
In either case, Representative Government is doing just fine.
Looks like they won’t AJ. Fox News reporting that it will die.
A sad day for America.
Sen Mel Martinez is speaking now. He says present laws can’t be enforced, we need this new law.
Now that’s representative government. We pass laws that mean nothing so now let’s pass another law that means nothing.
What is it about this law that makes it enforceable when others on immigration aren’t.
Simple. The others would have controlled illegals, this one makes them legal..
When he immigrated to this country, they taught him double speak very well.
A sad day for America.
not for the 80% that are opposed to the bill.
I suspect I’m gonna see some writing with tears within an hour or so.
OK, so Mexico is corrupt. AJ says “so what?” Nevermind that it is the citizens of Mexico that allow the corruption to continue. Yes, AJ, Mexico is a disease ridden, corrupt socialistic government. Maybe the citizens are not disease ridden, but the Pan-Am socialist government is. Mexico is the wealthyist Spanish speaking nation in the world, yet it remains third world. Why is that? Well, just take a look at the second richest man in the world, Carlos Slim, a Mexican who made his billions in the telecom industry and who recently said that he did not understand Bill Gates giving so much money away and that he was not interested in being thought of as a “charity”. So while his own people live in cardboard shacks, he maintains his wealth is not for redistribution. That is basically the Mexican hiarchy attitude and is a prime reason that Mexico is the toilet it is. So Mexico continues it’s process of exporting it’s own citizens and importing Central and South Americans who will work for even less.
And of course, all those who sneak across our borders in the middle of the night are just doing so to earn a living for their families. How easy to ignore that while illegals represent about 4% of our population, the number of illegals incarcerated in California (which does not prosecute illegals for just being illegal) accounts for 50% of the prison population. You could use that “only to work” carnard if the crime factor was not so heavily swayed to show otherwise.
Yesterday, Senator Cornyn, who was a former state attorney general, stated loud and clear that there was no way to complete a total background check within the 24 hours alloted for the process. But I am sure you know better.
You want to point out that Jeffry Dalmer was pure American but you ignore that Angel Resendez, the worst serial killer in our history, was pure illegal.
While there are those in our halls of Congress that would have us become more like foreign nations (i.e. socialist) let’s just review some things in the Mexican Constitution:
Immigrants and foreign visitors are banned from public political discourse (protest marches included)
Immigrants and foreigners are denied certain basic property rights
Immigrants are denied equal employment rights (when ATT bought out MexTel, ATT had to prove that the management they sent to Mexico to clean up the mess that was MexTel, could do jobs that no Mexican citizen could do. Also, the fees and kickbacks to allow ATT management into Mexico to work often surpassed the $15,000 mark. I know this for a fact)
Immigrants and naturalized citizens may never become members of the clergy
Private citizens may arrest illegal immigrants and hand them over to authorities
Immigrants may be expelled from Mexico for any reason without due process
This is the same nation that is demanding that we take as many of it’s poor and uneducated as we can possibly cram in, no matter the cost to the American people while they are raked over the coals for their treatment of their own illegal population by the Human Rights Council of the U.N.
No, AJ, this bill is not totally bad. But the bad parts so far outweigh the good that it will simply be a tool for higher taxes and the violation of American’s own civil rights. You have to wonder where the ACLU is when a bill says that an employer can be prosecuted for refusing to hire an illegal over an American citizen or when the DREAM Act is part of the deal that gives illegal students benefits no available to American students. But we know that the ACLU is not interested in backing Americans, don’t we?
As far as being a scam, this bill ranks right up there with global warming. How in the hell did the “clay pigeon” amendment appear on a Hispanic pro-illegal group website before it was even given to the Senators yesterday morning? How is a pro-illegal organization, funded by George Soros, managing to have direct lines to Senator’s offices when normal Americans are getting nothing but buzy signals and recordings? But none of this bothers you, does it?
I have said many times that all politics are personal. It is obvious you have a vested interest in seeing this travesty passed. Perhaps it is time you come clean about that. I see no one who would slam you for being honest.
If this bill is passed, parts of it will be challanged in the SCOTUS. None of it will be enforced except the amnesty part. The ACLU will challange the fines; municipalities and states will challange the costs heaped on the states for social welfare programs, students will challange the in-state tuition provision, on and on and on. So no, AJ, the argument will not be over. It will only be beginning. Meanwhile, resentment toward immigration of any kind, legal or illegal, will build. And that is the sad part of the whole Shamnesty scam.
Just posted on Drudge:
FLASH: Senate switchboard has been shut down due to overwhelming calls: Sen. Sessions
If people are calling their Senators then that’s what representative government is all about.
If this bill had followed the proper route of committee meetings and cost analysis in the sunshine and not in back rooms then the people may have had a different attitude about the legislation.
That range of 70-95%
Is that the range of grades you would want your brain surgeon to have achieved in his brain surgery classes?
…Looks like they won’t AJ. Fox News reporting that it will die…
Oh, happy day!
A failure of Representative Government, Sen Reid is speaking now.
Reid is talking about how immigration enriched his ancestors.
hmmm, must be in the same real estate deals Harry are in….
whoops, now he’s playing the race card. He says his skin is very white. Guess he forgot to look in the mirror.
Drudge is reporting that the Senate switchboard has been shut down due to overwhelming call volume.
Guess they’re tired of listening to the people they represent.