Jun 28 2007
Will The GOP Honor Representative Government?
There is a lot of speculation running out there that the immigration bill will fail its cloture vote test this morning. Clearly it will be close. But I think there are enough GOP members who honor the process of democracy more than winning on one issue. After years of bitching and moaning about how all conservatives want is an up-or-down vote on measures dear to them, and after years of Bush being in their corner for them, I think they will take salvaging the process over the immigration bill.
Why? Primarily because they are losing the battle and destroying the party. They are not convincing anybody. While Rassmussen runs polls about “amnesty” the polls about ‘guest workers’ and ‘paths to legal status’ show the same lopsided support. They know deep down the red herrings they floated failed and made them look either petty or like they keep grasping for technicalities to cover up for something. We had the canard no one does anything about the issue – while the bill’s opponents propose the “Do Nothing Now” strategy! That was irony at its best.
We had the myth we could not process criminal record checks from fingerprints in 24 hours because some people confused a passport with a fingerprint check. OK, so some are little less edcuated on the finer details of law enforcement (a surprising number of which hold law degrees – figures). We had the myth we couldn’t process 12 million fingerprint checks without serious investment. I busted that myth when I noted the FBI’s IAFIS fingerprint system, the largest in the world with connections to major international systems, had processed 100,000 prints a day. And it is easy to expand capacity. That made the check for criminal records a paltry 3 month affiar – if all the illegals came in on day one, which we know is unrealistic fantasy.
Recently a reader posted a real bizarre concern. Seems we are not a perfect species and we have imperfect systems. I guess Ted Kennedy was forced to admit our 97.5% accuracy rate in records management would create 300,000 errors if used on 12 million people. Oh well, I guess some people panic at the mention of typos. Heaven knows I create a lot of typos and I have seen the spelling police out there.
But this last example proved the silliness and vacuousness of the opponents. Some of the worst of the far right have likened illegal immigration to a cancer on our society. Hyperventilating as usual, it was a good analogy to address with the 97.5% accuracy rate. The deniers, the DO NOTHING NOW types, are pretty responding to the medicine for this supposed cancer by saying “no thanks, I will live with the cancer until I find a cure that is guaranteed 100% effective”. And people wonder why I call them ‘amnesty hypochondriacs”.
This bill will be more than 70% effective. I doubt it will reach 95% – but future adjustments can get it there. That range of 70-95% effective is damn good for new policy, but reasonable. It is not the doom and gloom fantasies of the far right and or the far left. So it is not the bane of our existence as the hypcochondriacs claim. The bane of our existence is hyperventilating exaggeration that insults wide swaths of this country who did nothing seriously wrong. THAT is what needs to deported – the unreasonable hate.
One of the worst myths from the far right is Mexico is a criminal, socialistic, disease ridden place which is trying take over this country. Mexico has its problems, but few countried on this planet have our standard of living. They are all lesser places to some degree. So using that as some reason to insult a people and a culture is the purist of the ugly American stereotypes and is why people hesitate our efforts to protect ourselves internationally. But even here at home that kind of biased rhetoric does damage. The irony of the far right’s arguments can be seen in the fact those people who left Mexico (and other places south), who left their families behind and wandered at great personal risk into a foreign land, did so because they too saw how much better America was. And they stayed and brought their family here and raised them because they wanted to share in the American dream. They were not bringing disease and crime, they were fleeing it.
So to claim those who come here illegally (and many legal residents and citizens once were here illegally) are the disease ridden criminals of a corrupt culture is as insulting and unfair as it gets. Every society has its criminals. At this point, with the ludicrous irony flying, I cannot help but note that Geoffrey Dhalmer (sp?), the human cannibal, was pure bread American. As I watch the far right turn on its own one could forgive someone from using the broad stroke exaggeration method of debate to make a connection!
But a better analogy is Tammy Faye Baker. When I hear Hannity whine about how he cannot believe what is happening in this country, and Laura Ingraham whine about process and procedure, all I see are Tammy Faye’s with dripping mascara running down their cheeks. They have cried ‘wolf’ so many times and nothing has been there that they have become comical. The ultimate irony in this comedy is the proposed solution: DO NOTHING NOW! This is such a bad situation and there is no hope in this bill the only answer is to do…..
Nothing! But of course when people point out the flaws in the opposition, the harm they are doing to the nation and the party, and the true bigots and racists in their midsts, the opposition goes Tammy-Faye on us. “El Presidente Jorge insulted us, the triator”. The irony is so thick it is amazing. So now we will see who are Senators, and who are Tammy-Faye’s crying out because they know God put them on this Earth to save America from the evil illegal aliens raising their families down the street, and of course from the dreaded typos in the government’s records. We have a choice. Either be serious and let America’s representative bodies VOTE on these measures, or listen to the hysterics for another 10 years.
I think a lot of people realize it is better to pass this, stop the civil war, and make more changes later. But then there are the suicidal ones who would be happy to fall on their sword and leave the GOP in the minority for decades – and see real amnesty arise when Dems take control of both houses of Congress and the Oval office. Because that is the choice they fail to see. This IS the best Hutchison, Chambliss and others will see in their lifetime. It is all down hill from here.
I suspect cooler heads will prevail, they will honor their core beliefs in representative government, many will honor a promise they made to El Presidente Jorge to give this thing a fair vote, and many will realize this is the best they will see for decades to come. That might tip the GOP from disaster. But what do I know. I thought they would avoid disaster in 2006. And right now they don’t even have people like me in their corner any more.
Now he tells the truth, If each of us were given just a few days to draft an immigration bill, we could do a better job. Whoa!!!!
in just a few days, we could draft a better bill.
Debate today Pro side got 50 minutes, opp side got 10, Pro side has now gone over, Opp side asked for more time, not gonna get it.
Hey, representative government.
No tears, just disgust. Nothing is done in todays world without organized forces.
The unions are delighted today. As are the David Dukites.
And that makes me sick.
vote is in. first count Ayes 19 nays21
Webb against
Looks like the good Senator from VA is not so bad on this issue after all.
ayes 29 n36
like Webb’s vote, pornographer or not
42 nays
A.J. – you, my Mom and my husband are the eternal optimists. I don’t know what to expect at this point and I can barely follow the machinations or sort the information being flung about.
And I love your Tammy Faye Baker comparison – it is perfect for the Lauras and Seans. It also invokes the self-righteous Bible thumping tendency of so many of the loudmouths who apparently see no conflict whatsoever between their spiteful rhetoric & scorched earth tactics and their Christian beliefs. This is beginning to really bother me.
Aitch – ditto your feeling of separation. I’ve about worn myself out with worry and disgust. Who knows where this hydra-headed monster is headed next, but no matter what happens with this vote, I do not sense that the situation will cool down anytime soon. A virtual industry has grown up around this issue, and a number of people with platforms sstand to profit from continued flogging. At the expense of the GOP and the nation, in my opinion.
50 nays, somebody obviously miscounted on their prediction close?
I’ve been lectured on “Representative Government”, and I’m humbled!
I know truly for the first time in my life, know what it means.
It means:
a) deals conducted in backrooms
b) it means votes bought with promises of Pork!
c) it means debate cut off with parlimentarian charades (but “legal”, so that’s okay!)
d) it means more deals conducted in backrooms on amendments
e) it means that if you belong to the 20% of the people in the country that support this bill, you get to label the 80% who oppose it as “bigots” and “right wingers” and haters of “representative government”
f) it means you actually have a Senator of the United States, say this, on the floor of the Senate, just now:
Arlen Specter believes that people who call and e-mail Senators do not represent America.
g) it means that the race card is played, you’re own President, who you’ve supported thru THICK AND THIN, insults you! It means that if you refuse to join the Echo Chamber, and actually think for yourself, you are labelled a bigot, a racist, and an “immigration hypochondriac”
h) it means that your Senator’s votes are for sale, to Tyson Chicken, Hormel and Armour Meat Packaging; the Construction Industry, and big Agri-business
i) it means that debate, and PLEAS to rationally discuss, and debate the bill, which was birthed like a Cockroach in the shadows and choking cigarsmoke of backroom wheeling and dealing, are ignored, shouted down, and ridiculed!
j) it means that so-called “myths debunked” are in fact, “myths created”
ad naseum..
But, as Julius Ceaser said: “the Victor writes the History, the loser reads about it!”
And thus, I just KNOW, that AJ won’t have any problem with the outcome of this vote, because as he said yesterday:
“True Americans show their love of country in debating in a civil, respectable manner, and then honoring the process WHEN THEY LOSE. ”
and
“Being a patriot is easy when the debates go your way. But true patriots shine in how they lose. ”
These are AJ’s unadulterated words, unchanged in ANY way; so I know that as a “true patriot”, AJ will honor today’s vote, and respect it, because debate, and then accepting the loss in a civil manner, is what it is all about, isn’t it?
So, I agree with AJ; we’ve had nothing but Civil Debate on this board, we agreed, the vote went against us, the “minority”, we accept the loss as we should, civilly, and we will now move on, as we should. And most important, “Representative Government” worked.
Final, ayes 46 nayes 53
Thank goodness Representative Government works
majority couldn’t carry majority
Now today you should have taken off for an important vote, but it might not have made your day.
I knew last night that the cloture will fail. I believe that AJ had intended that this bill be worked on and improved all along.
Well, why can’t they just find ways to enforce existing laws because today’s Congress just won’t be able to pass significant bills except maybe one or two. And even the 111th.
Good grief. 53-46. Who the heck thought so many would switch from yes to no?
…Final, ayes 46 nayes 53…
Good. Back to the drawing board…
Well unless a mitacle happens this is it till 2009. THe only thing now is to try like hell to mitigate the damage in the hispanic community and that needs to start tommorow.
If not we might have just given crucial Western States to Hillary. At least we can expect the bile we have been hearing to die down as Talk rado and others move on. At least that is a positive
Lurker, don’t make excuses,
“I believe that AJ had intended that this bill be worked on and improved all along.”
AJ’s intent was that this bill be crammed down our throats, and then discuss amending it.
Whatever, as Dale says, “I know that as a “true patriotâ€, AJ will honor today’s vote, and respect it, because debate, and then accepting the loss in a civil manner, is what it is all about, isn’t it?”
well said Dale. I can accept the outcome, as a ‘true patriot’
SallyVee you are right on.
Sue, didn’t I say the vote would be 50s vs 40s, i just had ayes and nayes backward. Thankfully.
what exactly has been won?
Just dropped in to gloat! A great day for the citizens of these United States.
BigLsuGuy
“mitigate the damage in the hispanic community ”
you mean figure out another way to let them be able to vote for the Dimmicrats. Legally now, they won’t be able to, but maybe a backroom deal can be worked out so they can vote for the Dimmi’s whether legal or not.