Jun 28 2007
Will The GOP Honor Representative Government?
There is a lot of speculation running out there that the immigration bill will fail its cloture vote test this morning. Clearly it will be close. But I think there are enough GOP members who honor the process of democracy more than winning on one issue. After years of bitching and moaning about how all conservatives want is an up-or-down vote on measures dear to them, and after years of Bush being in their corner for them, I think they will take salvaging the process over the immigration bill.
Why? Primarily because they are losing the battle and destroying the party. They are not convincing anybody. While Rassmussen runs polls about “amnesty” the polls about ‘guest workers’ and ‘paths to legal status’ show the same lopsided support. They know deep down the red herrings they floated failed and made them look either petty or like they keep grasping for technicalities to cover up for something. We had the canard no one does anything about the issue – while the bill’s opponents propose the “Do Nothing Now” strategy! That was irony at its best.
We had the myth we could not process criminal record checks from fingerprints in 24 hours because some people confused a passport with a fingerprint check. OK, so some are little less edcuated on the finer details of law enforcement (a surprising number of which hold law degrees – figures). We had the myth we couldn’t process 12 million fingerprint checks without serious investment. I busted that myth when I noted the FBI’s IAFIS fingerprint system, the largest in the world with connections to major international systems, had processed 100,000 prints a day. And it is easy to expand capacity. That made the check for criminal records a paltry 3 month affiar – if all the illegals came in on day one, which we know is unrealistic fantasy.
Recently a reader posted a real bizarre concern. Seems we are not a perfect species and we have imperfect systems. I guess Ted Kennedy was forced to admit our 97.5% accuracy rate in records management would create 300,000 errors if used on 12 million people. Oh well, I guess some people panic at the mention of typos. Heaven knows I create a lot of typos and I have seen the spelling police out there.
But this last example proved the silliness and vacuousness of the opponents. Some of the worst of the far right have likened illegal immigration to a cancer on our society. Hyperventilating as usual, it was a good analogy to address with the 97.5% accuracy rate. The deniers, the DO NOTHING NOW types, are pretty responding to the medicine for this supposed cancer by saying “no thanks, I will live with the cancer until I find a cure that is guaranteed 100% effective”. And people wonder why I call them ‘amnesty hypochondriacs”.
This bill will be more than 70% effective. I doubt it will reach 95% – but future adjustments can get it there. That range of 70-95% effective is damn good for new policy, but reasonable. It is not the doom and gloom fantasies of the far right and or the far left. So it is not the bane of our existence as the hypcochondriacs claim. The bane of our existence is hyperventilating exaggeration that insults wide swaths of this country who did nothing seriously wrong. THAT is what needs to deported – the unreasonable hate.
One of the worst myths from the far right is Mexico is a criminal, socialistic, disease ridden place which is trying take over this country. Mexico has its problems, but few countried on this planet have our standard of living. They are all lesser places to some degree. So using that as some reason to insult a people and a culture is the purist of the ugly American stereotypes and is why people hesitate our efforts to protect ourselves internationally. But even here at home that kind of biased rhetoric does damage. The irony of the far right’s arguments can be seen in the fact those people who left Mexico (and other places south), who left their families behind and wandered at great personal risk into a foreign land, did so because they too saw how much better America was. And they stayed and brought their family here and raised them because they wanted to share in the American dream. They were not bringing disease and crime, they were fleeing it.
So to claim those who come here illegally (and many legal residents and citizens once were here illegally) are the disease ridden criminals of a corrupt culture is as insulting and unfair as it gets. Every society has its criminals. At this point, with the ludicrous irony flying, I cannot help but note that Geoffrey Dhalmer (sp?), the human cannibal, was pure bread American. As I watch the far right turn on its own one could forgive someone from using the broad stroke exaggeration method of debate to make a connection!
But a better analogy is Tammy Faye Baker. When I hear Hannity whine about how he cannot believe what is happening in this country, and Laura Ingraham whine about process and procedure, all I see are Tammy Faye’s with dripping mascara running down their cheeks. They have cried ‘wolf’ so many times and nothing has been there that they have become comical. The ultimate irony in this comedy is the proposed solution: DO NOTHING NOW! This is such a bad situation and there is no hope in this bill the only answer is to do…..
Nothing! But of course when people point out the flaws in the opposition, the harm they are doing to the nation and the party, and the true bigots and racists in their midsts, the opposition goes Tammy-Faye on us. “El Presidente Jorge insulted us, the triator”. The irony is so thick it is amazing. So now we will see who are Senators, and who are Tammy-Faye’s crying out because they know God put them on this Earth to save America from the evil illegal aliens raising their families down the street, and of course from the dreaded typos in the government’s records. We have a choice. Either be serious and let America’s representative bodies VOTE on these measures, or listen to the hysterics for another 10 years.
I think a lot of people realize it is better to pass this, stop the civil war, and make more changes later. But then there are the suicidal ones who would be happy to fall on their sword and leave the GOP in the minority for decades – and see real amnesty arise when Dems take control of both houses of Congress and the Oval office. Because that is the choice they fail to see. This IS the best Hutchison, Chambliss and others will see in their lifetime. It is all down hill from here.
I suspect cooler heads will prevail, they will honor their core beliefs in representative government, many will honor a promise they made to El Presidente Jorge to give this thing a fair vote, and many will realize this is the best they will see for decades to come. That might tip the GOP from disaster. But what do I know. I thought they would avoid disaster in 2006. And right now they don’t even have people like me in their corner any more.
Merlin: you don’t have to be “sorry”; if I make a mistake, I don’t mind if I’m corrected.
I read that on two websites, and I should’ve Googled it, before posting it.
Okay, this is the best article I can find on it; and I’m not sure if this is the version that was in the current bill that just got voted against, but it may have been, if someone knows for sure, please post.
This looks like it’s kinda what Merlin said, with a few “catches”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DREAM_Act
From the point of view of presidential politicking . . . Bush clearly got slapped down like an unruly 4th grader . . . and by the most antediluvian members of his own party. It is hard to conceive of a moment when presidential power and prestige has been at a lower ebb – perhaps Nixon just prior to his ignominious flight from Washington, D.C.
Next up for the president . . . the bare-knuckle brawl coming over subpoenas and bogus claims of privilege. Charges of “inherent contempt”. Actions by the Sergeants-at-arms of the House and Senate . . . and continuing death spiral of the viability of what is left of his presidency and his doomed legacy: George Walker Bush, the most incompentent president in the history of the Republic.
BigLsuFaker
“I suggest the over the top rants agains Hispanics stop and how they all think alike.”
I suggest you kiss my can. I didn’t say one damn thing about hispanics in that statement. I said illegals. Apparently you saw something racist or ethnic in that, but that is just the product of a small mind.
“Ken” “Bootlicker” “THECENTERISABUNGHOLE”, the most delusional Leftist Anti-American/Pro-Jihadi/Anti-Semitic anthropomorphic member of the Lunar Chiroptera colony, EVER!
Hey “Bootlicker”, er, sorry; “THECENTERISABUNGHOLE”; you need to Wipe your Mouth; your lips are shaped like “Ken’s” sphincter muscle!
“George Walker Bush, the most incompentent president in the history of the Republic. ”
Wow, I find that ironic. The Economy is going good and we are in a part of the year where daily we see the Bush influence on the Court. I suppose that doesn’t count for much since the events that cauded that was so last year
“Enforcement”
“I suggest you kiss my can. I didn’t say one damn thing about hispanics in that statement. I said illegals. Apparently you saw something racist or ethnic in that, but that is just the product of a small mind. ”
I was actually addressing it as the whole picture. I did not mean to single you out as being a anti hispanic bigot. I pop in here from time to time and don’t know if you endorse that 30 percent of bile I see on the net and elsewhere.
My point is that now the issue will not be picked back up we have got to mitigate the damage as much as we can among hispanic voters. The perception of the GOP is not good and we must do out part to correct that.. Even those that opposed the bill
“Enforcement”
“I suggest you kiss my can. I didn’t say one damn thing about hispanics in that statement. I said illegals. Apparently you saw something racist or ethnic in that, but that is just the product of a small mind. ”
I was actually addressing it as the whole picture. I did not mean to single you out as being a anti hispanic bigot. I pop in here from time to time and don’t know if you endorse that 30 percent of bile I see on the net and elsewhere.
My point is that now the issue will not be picked back up we have got to mitigate the damage as much as we can among hispanic voters. The perception of the GOP is not good and we must do out part to correct that.. Even those that opposed the bill
“Enforcement”
“I suggest you kiss my can. I didn’t say one damn thing about hispanics in that statement. I said illegals. Apparently you saw something racist or ethnic in that, but that is just the product of a small mind. ”
I was actually addressing it as the whole picture. I did not mean to single you out as being a anti hispanic bigot. I pop in here from time to time and don’t know if you endorse that 30 percent of bile I see on the net and elsewhere.
My point is that now the issue will not be picked back up we have got to mitigate the damage as much as we can among hispanic voters. The perception of the GOP is not good and we must do out part to correct that.. Even those that opposed the bill
And Bush shrinking the federal deficits faster than the speed of light!
LOL! Him incompetent? HAHAHAHAHA!!!
I think in light of Congress not being able to pass a significant bill but perhaps one or two…they should just submit a bill to build a physical and virtual fences along the south and north borders FIRST.
Then consider ways to get existing laws enforced.
Why can’t existing laws be enforced?
“Why can’t existing laws be enforced? ”
Lurker, I think at this point the Pro Comp people have made the argument the best we can why the laws cannot be enforced. The lack of worplace verfication. ID, makes a hard case for the Govt to improve
Also in the end the Verfication was the fence. A fence will do precious little for the 40 percent of illegals that came in legally and now are illegal.
However I understand that people will disagree. IN the end there will no more legislation that can get through without meeting the concerns of the immigratn groups and business(both small and BIg). We are in effect at a standoff
Why can’t existing laws be enforced?
Oh, I suspect it has something to do with our entrenched, unelected, undismissible federal bureaucracy.
Biglsufan, you seem to operate under the premise that if this bill was passed, it would be a boon to the GOP. Everything points to the opposite, including the Pew Hispanic Research Center which focuses exclusively on Hispanic studies.
The attitude toward politics among Hispanics is not going to change because we make illegals legal. So that argument, as much as you would like to make it, is false.
Hispanics voted for Bush somewhere around 39% (not the 44% touted by some). Just take a look at the exit polls in his own home state in counties where Hispanics are the majority. He lost, BIG TIME to Kerry.
And one other thing; this argument was not race based. That is another falsehood. “Enforcement first” proponents are not concerned with a person’s ethnic background. We are concerned with the violation of our laws and the disrespect of same. I don’t care if an illegal is German, Latino, Irish or Chinese. I don’t want to reward anyone who has no respect for our laws and feel they have a right to break them. The “race” card was played by those who supported this bill like Teddy Kennedy whose office reported that he was in constant contact with La Raza and LULAC.
The proponents of this bill were taking their talking points from the play book of Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton. Make it about race and we will intimidate others into accepting a badly written, back room deal that was made with racist groups (La Raza means The Race).
I posted a rebuttal to AJ’s original comments above. They have never made it. In it I listed items in the Mexican Constitution that prohibits the rights of immigrants and naturalized citizens of Mexico. Believe me, if the thousands of Americans that live in Mexico started to protest, waving American flags during marches in Mexico City, and demanding rights not given them by the Mexican Constitution, they would be promptly removed from Mexico, all without due process.
We cannot take all the world’s poor. We can help with aid and other programs, but we cannot accept them all. We have to realize that immigration laws were designed to benefit the host nation (us) and not the immigrant.
But if you want to sent a 757 to Darfur and load it up with poor people, who ARE being oppressed by Islamic radicals, and want to bring them here and support them, be my guest.
In 2008 there will be 21 Republican senate seats up for grabs and only 12 Democrat seats.
This is opposed to 2006 when there were 17 Democrat seats up for election and only 15 Republican seats.
Today’s vote has probably ensured a massacre for the Republican party in 2008. We will get a large Democrat majority in Congress and end up with a much worse bill being passed than what was defeated today.
The far right won a battle but they have lost the war. They have now ensured an even worse outcome. Nice going. Sheesh.
Note:
In 2006 Democratic candidates defeated six Republican incumbents: Rick Santorum (Penn.), Mike DeWine (Ohio), Lincoln Chafee (R.I.), Jim Talent (Mo.), Conrad Burns (Mont.), and George Allen (Va.). No Democratic incumbents were defeated.
2008 is going to be a bloodbath. The Republicans will be irrelevant for years to come.
Cheeses K. Rist, Dale
. . . you gotta get ON the meds and STAY on them until the last vestiges of your borderline personality disorder are obliterated.
The hebephrenic babbling was disturbing enough . . . but now you’re starting to worry the neighbors.
Stay inside, close the drapes, sit quietly and wait for the Geodon to start working. There is hope for you . . . if you stay in treatment.
Cross:
Totally insighful comment. Bloodbath, indeed. And you can expect many a sleepless night for the criminals Bush and Cheney . . . as the first task for any Attorney General should be the indictment, prosecution and conviction of the criminals Bush and Cheney for their felonius violations of Title 50, Chapter 1, Subchapter 36, Section 1800 et seq. of the US Code.
BigLsuGuy
“My point is that now the issue will not be picked back up we have got to mitigate the damage as much as we can among hispanic voters.”
Why? why is it a racist or ethnic issue. Can’t illegals be Caucasian?
Why is a hispanic vote to be coveted? Don’t all votes count equally?
Shouldn’t voters vote for whomever they want, regardless of race or ethnicity?
Displaying bigotry in order to claim you are trying to solve the problem is not a virtue.
Crosspatch, I feel you are wrong. Yes, some seats will be up for grabs like Linsey Grahamesty’s seat because his state is already looking for someone to run against him in the primaries.
But the Democrats ran on a ticket of Republican corruption, promising to install the most honest Congress in history and accountablility. The new Congress has achieved none of this and their ratings are the lowest in modern history. In other words, Democrats did not keep their campaign promises and Americans are quite aware of it.
Republicans do not march to the tune of one person’s drummer, i.e. the President. If we do not agree with him, we, unlike Democrats who all use the same talking points, let him know it.
So while I think you are doing an exercise in wishful thinking, I think you will also be disappointed.
I suppose time will tell. I am deeply saddened, though, and I feel that the Republicans have shot themselves severely in the foot. In fact, the wound may fester and result in a severe crippling.
I am not going to argue the point because the polls on the loss of Republican support, particularly in rural America is telling the story on its on. It isn’t a lack of support for Bush, it is for the Republican party across the board. It is really sad. Because of the immigration issue, the Republicans have sacrificed their position and input on ALL issues including terrorism and national defense. We are going to see a Senate and a House where it really won’t matter one iota what the Republicans think, we have just handed the country to the Democrats. Get used to the idea.
CrossP, I hope you’re in your fallout shelter to protect you from your falling sky. Gloom and doom.
Let’s get this straight.
Immigration bill passes, 12+ million x 80% democrat =7.6 million new dem voters and 2.4 million new Repub voters.
a net gain of 5.2 million for the dimmicrats
Immigration bill fails 12+million x 0% = 0 million new dimmicrat voters and
12+million x 0% = 0 million new republican voters
net gain of 0 million for the dimmicrats.
The way I see it, the repubs prevented a 5.2 million gain and they lost? you aren’t too good at math are you?
“Bootlicker”: one would think, that of a normal person, you could come up with another adjective than your tried and true “hebephrenic”?
Sad fact is, you don’t even know what it means, and to find out, you would have to Google it!
Wait a second…..
What’s that sound??
Beeeeeeeeep!
Beeeeeeeeeeep!
Beeeeeeeeeeeeep!
Wow, look at that!
“Bootlicker”, grab your old-style one-bar padded Football Helmet, and put it on, quickly!
The “special” little yellow “short-bus” is outside your home, waiting for you!
Get the helmet on, and grab your sack lunch, you’re off to “play time” with all the other “kids”!
Enjoy; we’ll see you back here in 4 hours, have a good time, don’t knock your head! (That’s why you have the helmet!)
PS: if you stop by Ace Hardware, I’ve heard they have special stretchers there, that can help you straighten your lips out!
FE, I will personally so enjoy telling you “I told you so” a little over a year from now but it won’t make up for the sadness of seeing us hand the country over to the Dems.
It isn’t “gloom and doom” … it is reading the writing on the wall. I think it is atitudes like yours that has destroyed the Republican party. But that is of no consequence now. What is done is done. The Republicans are toast. Find me a poll that shows anything but a diminishing trend of support for the Republican party as a whole. There isn’t one.