Jun 28 2007
Will The GOP Honor Representative Government?
There is a lot of speculation running out there that the immigration bill will fail its cloture vote test this morning. Clearly it will be close. But I think there are enough GOP members who honor the process of democracy more than winning on one issue. After years of bitching and moaning about how all conservatives want is an up-or-down vote on measures dear to them, and after years of Bush being in their corner for them, I think they will take salvaging the process over the immigration bill.
Why? Primarily because they are losing the battle and destroying the party. They are not convincing anybody. While Rassmussen runs polls about “amnesty” the polls about ‘guest workers’ and ‘paths to legal status’ show the same lopsided support. They know deep down the red herrings they floated failed and made them look either petty or like they keep grasping for technicalities to cover up for something. We had the canard no one does anything about the issue – while the bill’s opponents propose the “Do Nothing Now” strategy! That was irony at its best.
We had the myth we could not process criminal record checks from fingerprints in 24 hours because some people confused a passport with a fingerprint check. OK, so some are little less edcuated on the finer details of law enforcement (a surprising number of which hold law degrees – figures). We had the myth we couldn’t process 12 million fingerprint checks without serious investment. I busted that myth when I noted the FBI’s IAFIS fingerprint system, the largest in the world with connections to major international systems, had processed 100,000 prints a day. And it is easy to expand capacity. That made the check for criminal records a paltry 3 month affiar – if all the illegals came in on day one, which we know is unrealistic fantasy.
Recently a reader posted a real bizarre concern. Seems we are not a perfect species and we have imperfect systems. I guess Ted Kennedy was forced to admit our 97.5% accuracy rate in records management would create 300,000 errors if used on 12 million people. Oh well, I guess some people panic at the mention of typos. Heaven knows I create a lot of typos and I have seen the spelling police out there.
But this last example proved the silliness and vacuousness of the opponents. Some of the worst of the far right have likened illegal immigration to a cancer on our society. Hyperventilating as usual, it was a good analogy to address with the 97.5% accuracy rate. The deniers, the DO NOTHING NOW types, are pretty responding to the medicine for this supposed cancer by saying “no thanks, I will live with the cancer until I find a cure that is guaranteed 100% effective”. And people wonder why I call them ‘amnesty hypochondriacs”.
This bill will be more than 70% effective. I doubt it will reach 95% – but future adjustments can get it there. That range of 70-95% effective is damn good for new policy, but reasonable. It is not the doom and gloom fantasies of the far right and or the far left. So it is not the bane of our existence as the hypcochondriacs claim. The bane of our existence is hyperventilating exaggeration that insults wide swaths of this country who did nothing seriously wrong. THAT is what needs to deported – the unreasonable hate.
One of the worst myths from the far right is Mexico is a criminal, socialistic, disease ridden place which is trying take over this country. Mexico has its problems, but few countried on this planet have our standard of living. They are all lesser places to some degree. So using that as some reason to insult a people and a culture is the purist of the ugly American stereotypes and is why people hesitate our efforts to protect ourselves internationally. But even here at home that kind of biased rhetoric does damage. The irony of the far right’s arguments can be seen in the fact those people who left Mexico (and other places south), who left their families behind and wandered at great personal risk into a foreign land, did so because they too saw how much better America was. And they stayed and brought their family here and raised them because they wanted to share in the American dream. They were not bringing disease and crime, they were fleeing it.
So to claim those who come here illegally (and many legal residents and citizens once were here illegally) are the disease ridden criminals of a corrupt culture is as insulting and unfair as it gets. Every society has its criminals. At this point, with the ludicrous irony flying, I cannot help but note that Geoffrey Dhalmer (sp?), the human cannibal, was pure bread American. As I watch the far right turn on its own one could forgive someone from using the broad stroke exaggeration method of debate to make a connection!
But a better analogy is Tammy Faye Baker. When I hear Hannity whine about how he cannot believe what is happening in this country, and Laura Ingraham whine about process and procedure, all I see are Tammy Faye’s with dripping mascara running down their cheeks. They have cried ‘wolf’ so many times and nothing has been there that they have become comical. The ultimate irony in this comedy is the proposed solution: DO NOTHING NOW! This is such a bad situation and there is no hope in this bill the only answer is to do…..
Nothing! But of course when people point out the flaws in the opposition, the harm they are doing to the nation and the party, and the true bigots and racists in their midsts, the opposition goes Tammy-Faye on us. “El Presidente Jorge insulted us, the triator”. The irony is so thick it is amazing. So now we will see who are Senators, and who are Tammy-Faye’s crying out because they know God put them on this Earth to save America from the evil illegal aliens raising their families down the street, and of course from the dreaded typos in the government’s records. We have a choice. Either be serious and let America’s representative bodies VOTE on these measures, or listen to the hysterics for another 10 years.
I think a lot of people realize it is better to pass this, stop the civil war, and make more changes later. But then there are the suicidal ones who would be happy to fall on their sword and leave the GOP in the minority for decades – and see real amnesty arise when Dems take control of both houses of Congress and the Oval office. Because that is the choice they fail to see. This IS the best Hutchison, Chambliss and others will see in their lifetime. It is all down hill from here.
I suspect cooler heads will prevail, they will honor their core beliefs in representative government, many will honor a promise they made to El Presidente Jorge to give this thing a fair vote, and many will realize this is the best they will see for decades to come. That might tip the GOP from disaster. But what do I know. I thought they would avoid disaster in 2006. And right now they don’t even have people like me in their corner any more.
Crossp, if you’re going by the polls, it shows that the public is just as fed up, or even more so, with the dimmicrats. In fact, congress ran by dimmis are the lowest rating ever, ever. and that means when the Repubs were in control. So if I were a Dim, I’d be wondering about my future. I lived in SC when Graham was elected with great promise, conservatives loved him. They now refer to him as Former Sen Graham. Because he is not seen as a conservative any longer. They also liked McCain back then, even tho he finished 2nd to W. He wouldn’t do nearly that well now. The conservatives in SC will still elect the next conservative senator.
2008 is going to be a bloodbath. The Republicans will be irrelevant for years to come.
Truth be known, Crosspatch, I think a lot of Republican pols prefer it that way. They were quite comfortable being in the minority from the mid-50’s until 1995 as long as they got invited to to cocktail parties and to play golf on the weekends. If the Dems trip on their d*cks as I fully expect them to, their power trip will surely not last another 40 years. I still think your “Common Sense Party” is the answer, along with term limits.
I’m not quite following how the failure of this particular immigration bill has ruined the Republican party. Is the reasoning that this is the straw that broke the camel’s back or that this one issue has doomed Republicans on its own?
Although we defeated this immigration bill abomination, our President, although he has the power and responsibility to secure our borders, has no desire to do so and will never do so without further pressure from the people. The following copy of my previous correspondence represents my idea to do just that.
6/26/7
Dear President Bush;
I have never been so infuriated at a Republican President, or even a Democrat President for that matter, as I am with you and our Republican Leadership. You are a TRAITOR to your party and country.
I learned this morning that it was you and the Republican Leadership, not Senator Reid, that insisted upon this abortion procedure called the “clay pigeon†that will take away the traditional rights of the loyal opposition to this “Amnesty for all illegal immigrants bill†that you and our Traitorous Republican Leaders negotiated with Senator Kennedy in secret behind closed doors.
I despise you and all of the Republican Party Leadership and any other Republican that supports you in this TREASONOUS DISTRUCTION OF OUR PARTY AND COUNTRY.
I have been a loyal Republican since Goldwater ran for President in 1964.
Mr. President, I AM YOUR BASE BUT I WILL NO LONGER DEFEND OR SUPPORT YOU. I ALSO WANT YOU TO UNDERSTAND PRECISELY WHAT MY INTENTIONS ARE.
When that first terroist/bomb goes off in the USA that is proven to have come into this country across this border that you have refused to secure for the past 6 years I will be with the very first to call for your IMPEACHMENT and your good buddy Ted Kennedy and the other Democrats will be right there with me, along with, our very own corrupt self serving Republican Leadership.
You are the one that has the power and responsibility. Secure the Mexican border or face impeachment when that first bomb goes off. That’s the message I will be broadcasting from now on. I am sick of your love affair with Mexican illegals and your flat refusal to protect our families with secure borders.
Robert Quinn
18 Lakeview Drive S
Haines City, Fla, 33844
863 422 2813
rlqretired@aol.com
There are 15 additional voting members in my family, all Republicans, that feel exactly the same. It is only a fool, or a traitor, that conspires with the enemy against the wishes of the vast majority of his base of support.
Update – 6/28/7 – Mr. President, I want you to know that having helped defeat this abomination that you secretly conspired with the Democrats to create gives me some satisfaction but I also want you to know that my intention remains to support your impeachment if you continue to refuse to secure our border with Mexico. PLEASE SECURE OUR BORDERS, ENFORCE OUR EXISTING LAWS, YOU HAVE THE POWER, PROTECT OUR FAMILIES.
President Bush probably said a prayer for you after reading that, if it ever reached him.
Rlqretired: Well, I get the message you are upset!
I’m not real pleased with what ocurred either; but to call the President of the United States, in any forum, a “traitor”, is uncalled for!
I never called Clinton that, and heaven knows, he desperately tried to give us reason.
I also haven’t called that of any of our elected representatives, Except John Kerry, and former President Carter, and in BOTH cases, it is easily proven.
I don’t think you’ll accomplish much with this approach, by the way.
President Bush, is many different things; but one thing he is NOT, is a “traitor”.
“I think a lot of Republican pols prefer it that way.”
Truth be told, I agree. Whoever wins in 2008 is going to have a crucial slot in history as the party holding power as the boomers are starting to retire. If they attempt to load a national healthcare system onto the back of the people, it might just be the straw that breaks the camel’s back and cause the pendulum to swing the other way in 2012 or 2016. Might might take until after 2012 for the scope of the looming retirement disaster to be fully realized by some. At that point medicare and medicaid are going to be in severe trouble due to the majority of the boomers, the largest population demographic in America, being retired.
But we can kiss the Republicans out of any role large enough to play even a viable opposition for the next 8 to 12 years. The Republicans have become ideologically pure at the expense of being able to do anything about it. Republicans will be able to vote lock step and not make a bit of difference. Nobody is even going to care what their position is on anything for a while thanks to this vote.
Well Hillary is a happy woman.
I know I kind of figured the screeching loons would prevail. After all the leadership crumbled during Dubai and so how they could stand when Hannity and Rush started sweating and drooling over immigration?
The hispanic vote that went for Bush in 2004 at 44% was cut in half by 2006 and now no doubt it will be half of that. Add to that the moderates who are already turning from the party and unless the Republicans can find away to get through the day without alienating, pissing off, insulting, disgusting and or taking for granted an entire demographic then they have hurt themselves badly.
Because they do not have an alternative. They got nothing. They spend half their time bitching about the status quo and the other half protecting it.
They did not fix anything or improve anything. And here they are clinging to Rasmussen polls like life savers in choppy water. See, they say, everyone is just like us.
Fine, if that is true, why are you a minority? If that is true, how are you going to explain to that 73% who think that this problem needs to be addressed that you do not have a clue as to what to do about any of it? That you think just enforcing the laws is a state of mind or something.
Oh, you have your rhetoric, but rhetoric is not a plan.
And what is more you guys probably think months and months more of this bile is a good thing. Rush bellowing into the radio, Malkin prancing in her cheer leader outfit, Tancredo yammering on about how we are “full”….and ofcourse the deliberate intent of destroying the president who had the temerity to stick with his beliefs rather than kiss your asses.
Fine, but this Independent is not liking the Republicans very much right now. The Democrats are at least honest about what they are doing, the same can not be said for the right side of the aisle.
And btw, what will the next Great Sin be? If by some miracle a Republican like Gulliani wins, how long will it take the right to stab him in the back and call him a traitor? My guess is the issue will be abortion and they will be shocked, shocked to find out he is not just like them. And then out will come the long knives. And the name calling and the threats that if he does not do their bidding all is lost. Whatever.
Yep, it is a happy day. Our government has shown it can not deal with a major domestic issue, the Senate has been bullied by screaming ninnies and we are right back where we started. Way to go guys, makes me proud I am not a Republican.
I do feel sorry for Bush however, he deserved better than he got from his socalled cannibalistic base.
yep. he sure does deserve better.
You know when Bush ran for president, he made it clear that he supported guest worker programs and immigration reform. He also made it clear that he supported more private ownership.
Now, when he tried to bring private accounts into social security all those people out there who claim to be fiscal conservatives were not exactly helpful. They like to call Social Security a ponzi scheme, but they did not exactly step forward and defend the president when the Democrats and groups like AARP accused him of trying to destroy the system and leave the elderly on their own.
Nope, they did not step up.
Now we have people hyperventilating, calling the man a traitor for sticking with his principles which he never lied about or hid.
And yet, this problem has been around for years and no one, including the talk show hosts and the people calling anyone who disagrees with them on this issue did a damn thing about it. Nothing. Nada. Zip.
If Gore had won in 2000 instead of Bush, we would still have had illegal immigrants in this country.
But now the hard right has created this monster, they have read the polls and think everyone is as full of hate and malice as they are.
Well Cindy Sheehan thought everyone was like her too.
She was wrong and so are a lot of people on the right.
You got what you wanted, now live with the consequences. Either you will be expected to come up with solutions of your own or the issue will die away and you will be left with the damage you have done. Neither inspires confidence. The best scenario for you will be if most Americans just sort of forget about all this.
But the traitor talk, is not helpful, it sounds bizarre.
And remember, two thirds of the country still support the major elements of the bill, a guest worker program, a path to citizenship and greater enforcement.
Yep, the unions and the smugglers and the drug dealers are happy.
I would not want to run for anything with these people as my “base”. Ever. They are certainly not supporters. They want order takers in government, not leaders.
Just install a laptop in the Oval Office. Everyone can email in their vote daily for whatever decisions are needed for that day.
When that first terroist/bomb goes off in the USA that is proven to have come into this country across this border that you have refused to secure for the past 6 years I will be with the very first to call for your IMPEACHMENT and your good buddy Ted Kennedy and the other Democrats will be right there with me, along with, our very own corrupt self serving Republican Leadership.
OK, let’s look at this scenario.
You are the Operations Officer for what’s left of al-Qaeda.
You are tasked with infiltrating operatives into the United States to conduct terrorist actions. Due to certain operational problems beyond your control, infiltrating in via legal means (student or other visa) directly from an Islamic country is not an option.
There are three basic routes into the United States.
Option 1: infiltrate operatives across the US-Mexican border. Likelihood of each operative getting caught: 10-25% (depending on whose statistics you believe).
Option 2: infiltrate operatives via maritme “over-the-beach” operations. Likelihood of each operative getting caught: less than 2%.
Option #3: infiltrate across US-Canadian border and settle into ethnic Arab Muslim neighboods in Detroit/Dearborn area. Likelihood of getting caught: less than 1%.
Option #4: infiltrate operatives through Canada by posing as a victim of “persecution” seeking “asylum.” Canada will give your operatives generous welfare benefits, a new identity, and fast-track Canadian citizenship. Within six months to a year, your operatives will be able to enter the US on a Canadian passport. Likelihood of each operative getting caught: 0% (legal entry with a passport), but this may cause problems with your operations schedule.
Which option do you choose? If you choose Option 1, why the hell are you choosing the option that has the highest chance of getting caught?
I would not want to run for anything with these people as my “baseâ€. Ever. They are certainly not supporters. They want order takers in government, not leaders.
Damn straight.
Am I the only guy who finds it ironic that “the base” translates into Arabic as “al-Qaeda?”
“Am I the only guy who finds it ironic that “the base†translates into Arabic as “al-Qaeda?—
No, that irony has been brought up before.
I would not want to run for anything with these people as my “baseâ€. Ever. They are certainly not supporters. They want order takers in government, not leaders.
Thirded. ^_^
I just wonder what the next big blowup is going to be about. We’ve still got over eighteen months before President Bush leaves the White House for good.
looks like one of mine made it to the spam bucket but to paraphrase:
“Truth be known, Crosspatch, I think a lot of Republican pols prefer it that way.”
I think as the boomers start to retire the pols are going to be in a world of hurt. If the Dems are swept in, as I believe they now will be, they are going to try to create national healthcare which will be a fiscal disaster as the boomers start to retire. The party leadership will recognize this and try to give the White House to a Republican in 2012 to leave him holding the bag and take the blame for it. The people won’t realize what is going on until 2016 and by then it will be too late.
Crosspatch: no, you’re not the only one who finds Al Q = The Base ironic. I have tried to refrain from using that analogy, but it’s more than tempting. It seems Jihadism is an air-borne virus spread with wagging tongues, wireless connections, and telecommunications airwaves… it takes many forms in many countries cloaked in the theology of many religions. In every form of Jihad there is a domineering, inflexible ideology and a death wish. Have the Cons reached that degree of meglomania? I’m not sure. We shall see by their next moves between now and ’08 whether they have any ability to examine their own behavior and the fruits thereof. But I am not counting on them changing any faster than the Islamists or the Communist Chinese. Especially with this significant “victory” under their belts. It is bound to inspire more, not less, heavy breathing and muscle flexing.
Pink Flamingo had a great line the other day: If moderation is good for Islam, why not for the GOP and conservatives?
Sorry, I see that it was Cobalt who brought up “The Base.”
It is about extremism to me. Intolerance of anything other than the “correct” way and everyone else be damned. The far right behaves exactly the same way. They don’t care of they are going to walk themselves right into oblivion .. but by golly they are “right” and will never ever compromise because compromise to them is a dirty word that means going back on their principles or something. And when people won’t compromise and respect everyone *elses* principles and work to reach common ground, it simply results in a fight. And this fight will be played out with votes and so they will find themselves voted right out of relevance. And not a single politician will then care about what they call and write or post about because the Republicans are going to have just about zero power. And the only way they are going to ever get that power back is to learn to compromise and take a little and give a little.
Extremism always loses in a free society because nobody likes having what is “right” shoved down their throats by someone who won’t listen to reason and plays “my way or the highway”. Those are the people that end up out on the highway.
We will see.