Jun 28 2007
Guess We Need To Dump Some More Hypochondriacs!
I was in meetings all day, but I suspected the vote would not make it based on some early morning indications. I will be looking at the votes but it would seem more far left and far right folks moved to leave us in the same mess we have had for 20+ years. Well, there is only one answer: get rid of the fringes left and right.
The motto for 2008 should be “Stay Out Of The Fringes!”. For me that means I would rather see Webb (D) stay on for a while longer – at least until we can get this immigrartion issue fixed. And of course I will support Warner (R) if he runs in 2008. But if Warner retires all bets are off. The Dems probably will not run a liberal in VA so it will be up to the Republican options to see which way I would vote. But if we ended up with a Mark Warner type vs. an Allen/Sessions type VA would probably be all Democrat at the top of the ticket in 2008. I don’t have time for an analysis of where it makes sense to trim the fringes, but I am sure there are plenty of opportunities out there.
Until then I plan to thank the GOP for every victim of a crime by a repeat offender illegal alien for doing so much to allow these animals to stay in our country. The DO NOTHING NOW! crowd one this round. But each round takes a toll on them and they loose more credibility and support. It is just a matter of time before enough get tossed out before we can try again. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t want a Clinton or Levin or any liberal in office. But the Dems are willing to let moderates into their caucuses more than the frantic right.
Besides, the far right has run its course. They have nothing to offer new and if we need to protect the gains we made we can do that when needed. Yes, we may lose some ground, but that was happening anyway. You need to align with folks who will give you some part of your goals. With the GOP caving on stem cells and other matters their utility is about used up. They are victims of their own success. We have 90% of the stuff proposed by the Contract with America and Bush’s pledges – so take the progress and find opportunities for more. The one open issue is Iraq.
But if Bush’s Surge has done what is needed to stabilize the situation, then that too can be a success fairly immune to Congressional meddling by 2009. That I will watch. If Iraq does stabilize then al bets are off. Might be time to give the Dems another shot. Who knows. But anything is better than NOTHING NOW! – the new and everlasting GOP mantra. This was interesting – can’t wait to do it again.
169 Responses to “Guess We Need To Dump Some More Hypochondriacs!”
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In reality I think that there are many legislators on both the right and left that did not like this bill. In reality we have bills that are law that are not enforced, if enforced could help the problem a lot. I think we could deal with the problem if we closed the boarder and found a reliable way to tack people in this county. I have read that in Iraq they have a system that tracks people very well. I think DOD developed it. We should use it here.
“Until then I plan to thank the GOP for every crime by a repeat offender illegal aliens.”
No, AJ, that every administration since LBJ. It is the administration’s responsibility to require the Justice Department to enforce the laws. It is the responsibility of the administration to require Chernoff to enforce the laws on the books that would deport and/or prosecute repeat offender illegal aliens. Congress can enact laws until the cows come home but it is the administration that is responsible for putting people in positions that will enforce them.
We have already discussed how this bill would allow those with three misdemeanors on their records to stay here, legally. A DWI, in some states, is a class B misdemeanor. That means that your precious bill would have allowed every illegal who had been convicted of DWI in those states, would have been allowed to stay.
I will say this for you, AJ, you have cajones. You feel you can talk about the crimes of illegal aliens when you, personally, have never been affected by them. Somehow, I think you would have a change of opinion if it was your neighbor or your good friend that died at the hands of an illegal. But then, I could be wrong on that.
According to you, it was only the far left/right fringes that killed this bill. That means that the center is made up of only 20% of all Americans. A pretty big fringe group, wouldn’t you say?
Did it ever occur to you that if we suffer another attack that all this talk of legalization for ANY illegal will become moot? The American people will rise up against illegals like we have never seen.
Just one other point: it was the far right fringes, Senator Cornyn and Senator Hutchison, that took to the podiums and said “don’t let this conversation end. Secure the border, enforce the laws, show the American people that we are sincere about those things, and then, ask the American people to take into consideration those who have been here illegally for years but have worked hard.” Not one of your “comprehensive immigration” proponents did that. Not one. Instead, they declared the bill DOA. In other words, Reid knows that they cannot ramrod the American people to garner the bills they want that pander to special interest groups. If Reid, Kyl, Graham and Kennedy were really interested in doing something constructive, they would have suggested that new bills be drawn up to be discussed, in the open, above board, to address the mulitiple problems we face.
It will be your “immigration hypochondriacs” that will try to get something done. Expand the worker visas, enforce the employer sanctions, secure the border.
But then, what would you rant about if they are successful?
I thought the losing side was supposed to take it like true patriots. Oh well, so much for that guidance.
Let’s see now. the Dims brought up this bill, the majority of votes for it were Dims, but when they lost the votes, it was the Repubs that lost? Well, so much for Logic 101.
So even tho the ponographer Webb, Dim-Va voted no, he was right to do so. So much for Logic 102.
Seems to me as if the Dims were the losers rather than the far right. Didn’t the far right prevail? Didn’t the American public win? Wasn’t it a victory for a Republic, representative government responding to the desires of the represented?
Wasn’t it a loss for the Amnesty pimps?
“Until then I plan to thank the GOP for every victim of a crime by a repeat offender illegal alien for doing so much to allow these animals to stay in our country.” which is it? do they have laws now that allow for deporting criminals or not? you don’t seem to be able to make up your mind on that. In fact, with the criminals at the head of the line for legal papers, they would likely be the last ones to be deported.
See, I told you I could write your diatribe ahead of time. But maybe you are lucky and got into your fallout shelter before the sky started falling.
Your prediction performance record stayed intact.
Congressman Bilbray says you can’t start a comprehensive immigration reform with blanket amnesty, it’s a non-starter. Hey, someone from California with a real brain.
He says it was the liberal unions that won the day, they teamed with far right hypochondriacs to be heard. Since it is the end of the far right hypo’s guess it’s the end of the liberal unions also. If losing on this is the death knell. No, wait…..they won, didn’t they…. do we need a recount? What’s going on here? Anyhow?
I intend to show the same loyalty to the Republican party that is has shown to the president.
And Kathie, I am so tired of hearing about laws not being enforced. What do they intend to do about it other than bitch? Spend more money? Streamline the process? Hire more people? What exactly? All of that would require an act of Congress at any rate.
Just saying that over and over again has about as much realistic impact on the situation as telling kids to just say no to drugs.
It ain’t that simple. I have never heard one single hardliner come up with a viable alternative to a bill like this. Nothing. Bitching is not a plan. What would they do differently to see to it that those laws are enforced? What exactly? And what about the laws that have been watered down by court decisions?
They need a plan, they need details, they need to at least be able to come up with a few of the same kind of gaurantees they demanded of others. After awhile the nonstop bitching is just annoying if it is not followed by policy, a bill and a solution.
And that is not out there. A wall is like a bandaid on a gaping wound.
But I have gotten to the place where I don’t think that most of the hardliners really care about a solution. They just want to use the issue to assert their influence in the party and they don’t really care about the long term problems they create, nor do they care about the hard work of governing.
If they did, they would have been making an issue out of this a decade ago, but instead they saved it…until it was politically usefull.
Thus far, they have come up with not one single real life bill or step that will actually make enforcing those laws any easier or more likely.
If years and years down the road we are still hearing that tired old line about just enforcing the laws, people will catch on that is all a scam.
As long as talk radio and the various “conservative” astroturf organizations can make money by screeching about illegal immigration, they will continue to whip their faithful into a frenzy whenever the subject comes up.
To those who won: fine, you won. Now you get to clean up the mess you’ve made. A lot of Hispanics are now convinced that the Republican Party dislikes them. The over-the-top comments made on Townhall, Free Republic, and talk radio that you seem to never find the time to disown end up getting replayed over and over again by the Democrats.
You have 491 days and change to change the image you and your sputniki have worked overtime to create. Get your (Biblical beasts of burden) moving, goombahs.
No, I am not about to help you clean up the mess. The Pottery Barn Rule applies: you broke it, you bought it. Besides, you folks have referred to me as a “traitor” and a “Quisling” too many times for me to bother working with you on anything. If you don’t like that, “Tango Sierra.” Maybe y’all should’ve thought of that before insulting me.
I have far more important things to do with my time than to volunteer it on behalf of those who despise me.
FE, the Dhimmicrats didn’t get their way on this bill. They were unable to ramrod this bill through once the American people read it and voice their opinions.
Now, Harry Reid has said today (twice) that it is the fault of talk radio with Trent Lott jumping on the bandwagon a few days ago. Can you see where this is going? Americans now have talk radio, supported by the listeners, to inform them about the shenanigans that goes on in our Senate and Congress and Reid, et al, are none too happy about that. Their activities are being exposed to the light of day and cannot stand the disinfectant effect it has. So now the only thing to do is bring back the Fairness Doctrine and silence talk radio. But the New Democratic Socialist Party of America will not stop there. Who is next? Go after bloggers. Insist that someone like AJ open up his blog to another blogger that presents an opposite viewpoint. Of course, we will have to have a new agency that will decide what is fair and what isn’t. We can’t have one person voicing their opinion without the other side being represented, now can we?
At least when AJ votes for a Dhimmicrat, he will know up front he is getting a socialist.
I would like to say one thing. I voted for George Bush because I respected him. He made me believe that Republicans were not just the rich man’s party. Republicans could represent all sorts of people.
Since the whole Harriet Miers episode and now this I am reminded of what I used to think of Republicans. Self righteous. Selfish. Narrow minded. Hypocrites. Bigots. Bush made me believe I was wrong about that. He made me believe that I had misjudged that party.
Now I am beginning to wonder. I think this is a case of winning the battle and losing the war. The hardliners had better be able to follow this with something other than bile and venom or they will lose even more.
I am just telling you this as a classic swing voter. I am not liking what I see and hear.
We have the left pandering to the unions and the right pandering to the xenophobes and the result is not only the death of this bill, it is no bill, no improvement, no nothing.
I am beginning to wonder if putting more moderate Democrats in office might not be the answer.
I intend to show the same loyalty to the Republican party
and that would be about the same loyalty as in the past?
Cobalt:
I hear you and I feel the same damn way. It is their baby. I suggest they get to it.
No, Terrye, it is the baby of every administration since LBJ.
Can Congress enforce the law? Can the Senate enforce the laws? What department is responsible for enforcing American laws and who controls those departments?
Learn how goverment works, Terrye. Then you won’t sound so clueless.
I have never heard one single hardliner come up with a viable alternative to a bill like this.
Sure you have, many times. It was called ‘do nothing’ much preferred to this bill. certainly a viable alternative. Go back to your liberal roots
Wow!
I’ve never seen “Cobalt Shiva” on this board before, and certainly no one called her either a”traitor” or “qisling” on this board; so not sure who you are ranting against?
Terrye: I have a piece of advice for; go over to Captain’s Quarter’s Blog, and hook up with “Carol Herman”; you and her make as about as much sense as each other, so you’d be great partners.
Not to worry about the illegal criminals getting a free ride. The American people are already riled up about illegal drunk drivers killing Americans after numerous citations. We are also angry that these people are allowed to break the law and get away with it and stay here, and that they don’t even bother to show up for court dates and get away with it. When it becomes obvious to the majority of us that there are laws that are enforced against us and not enforced against them, the American people will take care of the problem in their own way. If I remember correctly, the last time we had a situation like this, some of our fellows put sheets over their heads and got justice in the night. If you think FBI infiltration into every nook and cranny of our lives will prevent this, think again. Some of our people are smart enough to go it alone. Or swap duties with trusted buddies.
We have had race riots in this country before. I see it happening again. Unless the government gets a handle on this massive invasion that is affecting each and every one of us working stiffs, and makes a sincere effort to round them up and ship them back home, the American people will solve the problem by making it so uncomfortable for them that they will voluntarily go home. Just remember, Unemployment for US born unskilled workers, those with high school or less education, has gone from 20% to 30% since these 12 to 20 million illegals started this invasion. Unemployment for new black high school graduates is nearly 50%. Idle hands are the devils workshop. It’s still true.
Cobalt Shiva
are you lost? why are you posting here? never seen your name before. Did you intend to post that over at Kos or somewhere less conservative. I think you are just disorientated. Wake up
OK, another post eaten by the great “post monitor”. Seems that if I say anything the “post monitor” doesn’t agree with, the gobble it up like PacMan.
enforcement:
What is that supposed to mean? I am telling you that since 2000 I have voted a straight Republican ticket, I intended to change party affiliation from Independent to Republican, people like you changed my mind.
Now if your point is that the only people you want voting for you are life long Republicans, then keep in mind that means you will be a minority party and you will never again carry enough clout to have anyone in the White House.
Believe it or not, treating people like crap does not inspire them to vote for you.
And btw, George Bush and John Kyl and John McCain are all life long Republicans, but that did not keep the screamers on this issue from calling them traitors.
So you can kiss my behind my friend, I owe you nothing.
Great posts, Cobalt and Terrye.
I particularly like this:
snip/”Since the whole Harriet Miers episode and now this I am reminded of what I used to think of Republicans. Self righteous. Selfish. Narrow minded. Hypocrites. Bigots. Bush made me believe I was wrong about that. He made me believe that I had misjudged that party.”
Terrye
THe party is not dead yet. There were a lot of people who stood up. Again I am now going to focus on mitigating the damage and reach out to Hispanics as much as we can. We have worked to hard to throw all the progress we made away
Cobalt and I have hung out at a number of the same forums.
Terrye, blah, blah, blah. Wow a lifelong dedicated Republican since all the way back to 2000. Wow, that’s a long lifetime. And truly dedicated. If giving amnesty to 12 million illegals is an issue so dear to your heart, I suggest you go back to your true party affilitation, they are the ones that wanted it. The Repubs don’t, so stay with your Dims.
G. W. Bush made you think the Repub party is not just for the rich? did you check his tax returns?
“Believe it or not, treating people like crap does not inspire them to vote for you”
So you’re saying your practices will never win you votes? I’ll agree.
and: “And btw, George Bush and John Kyl and John McCain are all life long Republicans, but that did not keep the screamers on this issue from calling them traitors.”
Show me just one single example of anyone calling either one of those three men a traitor? just one. Remember, it’s your side that’s doing the name calling.
Cobalt and I have hung out at a number of the same forums.
but not this one, you yes, cobalt no.
are you lost? why are you posting here? never seen your name before. Did you intend to post that over at Kos or somewhere less conservative. I think you are just disorientated. Wake up
Yo, FE: I seldom post here, but I have posted elsewhere, and received that sort of treatment.
Like I said, 491 days and change to clean up your mess. GET TO (EXPLETIVE DELETED) WORK!
actually I like Cobalt’s and Terrye’s posts
FOr those that are interested. This is the Hispanic Data for the Country per state. Please look at the under 18 group
http://www.rnha.org/Demographics.htm
On top of this none of the serious contenders for the GOP 08 race are showing up for the Latino elected Officals conference n Florida. Making Hispanic Republicans livid. Most of the Democrats will be having a forum there
Terrye, all I was saying is that the laws are on the books to close the boarder, and we need a tracking system. Congress has oversight to check that these things are being done. Well they need to check it out. Enforce it and part of the problem would be solved with out new legislation.
As for President Bush, I find that on most subjects that are important to me he has been incredibly courageous, honorable, and has a lot of heart. I support him. Look what he said on immigration in 2000. He said what he meant and did what he said. Someone was not listening!
Cobalt Shiva
I agree with you a hundreed percent. I understand that those that won this battle are entitled to a little Victory lap. But it needs to be done quick.
We cannot have a repeat of last year as to Hispanics voting Dem. I intend to write a checj this week to a Hispanic Republican group. THey need all the help they can get
So Cobalt your tactic is to come to a new blog and accuse the people here of saying things about you and then berating them for it when it actually was on another blog. You need to eat more tacks and sharpen up a bit.
I think we might be in danger of lumping everyone who opposed the bill into one homogeneous group of hardliners when there are actually a number of different factions on the right – each with a variety of reasons for opposition:
First there are the people, all name-calling aside, who actually are racists, nationalists, etc. They didn’t like this bill because they don’t like anything that would help someone of another race or nationality. However, while they are out there, I don’t think that they were anywhere near a majority of the opposition.
There are others who opposed this bill primarily because of its comprehensive nature. For this group, any bill which gave significant benefits to illegal aliens without first securing the border merely ensures an increase in illegal immigration. The new influx would add to an already overwhelming problem, and make any attempt at orderly immigration impossible. A large subset of this group probably would have supported this bill if it had called for a fence from the Pacific to the Gulf of Mexico, regardless of what legalization process it contained.
I’ve also observed a number of people who just didn’t believe that many of the bill’s proposals would ever be carried out. A number of people simply did not trust the government to carry out the enforcement sections of the bill – after all, enforcement has not been exemplary thus far, and is much harder and messier than the legalization process (cards are simple compared to locating and punishing criminals, which will most likely result in outraged cries of racism). For this group, the current bill would create a situation much like the current one, only that suddenly undocumented workers become documented.
Finally, there were actually a number of the hardliners who believed that they could do better than this bill, and supported that contention with specific ideas (sadly, it doesn’t look like many of these individuals are senators). These ideas ranged from splitting up the bill into more manageable parts (some obvious overlap with the second and third groups), taking the ease out of getting a Z visa (basically, stiffer penalties for become legal), stricter enforcement measures against those who elected not to get z visas (including deportation, fines, etc), and a variety of other concepts (many of which were in the amendments before the Senate). For this group(s), the common thread was that the Senate bill was incomplete or deficient in some significant way, and its passage would not only be less than optimal, but would also result in a worse situation than already exists.
Most of the people who’ve explained their opposition to me did not come off as racists or evil right wing hypochondriacs. Most did not name call or simply have emotion based arguments. Of course you can always find people who call Bush a traitor, or try to shout down opposition, insult your intelligence, etc, but I don’t think it’s fair to lump them in with those who had legitimate disagreements with this bill. For them, this bill at best would just maintain the status quo, and at its worse would lead to a much more difficult and problematic situation.
If I’ve misrepresented anyone’s views here, let me know, just felt like this needed some clarification.
Well. Judging by this thread, the death-before-amnesty crowd has come forward and offered their contribution to solving the illegal immigration problem:
Snark, slogans, and apocalyptic visions.
No suggestions on how to streamline the wall-building process. No suggestions on finding and removing the bottlenecks in the law-enforcement process. Nothing specific, beyond complaints about a dead bill.
Nice going, guys. The country is with you, I’m sure. Damn, what would we do without you?
Heh.
Oh yeah: Nice victory, guys. You’ve managed to progress all the way to where you started when the alarm bells went off in May 2006.
Cobalt in case you forgot, you said
“Besides, you folks have referred to me as a “traitor” and a “Quisling” too many times for me to bother working with you on anything. If you don’t like that,”
Approx how many times, on this blog, have you been referred to as a traitor or quisling?
Do you have a screw loose? Are you a fruitcake, or just a fruit?
Very well done LONE.
Terrye, all I was saying is that the laws are on the books to close the boarder, and we need a tracking system.
2,100 miles of border to “close.” And that’s assuming that you confine yourself to only the US-Mexican border.
OK, here goes for a very favorable-to-the-”close-the-border” crowd manpower estimate:
10 persons on post per mile of border. This allows for an up-front picket (a very thin one) plus a reaction force to stop large incursions. 21,000 persons on post at any one time.
Now, add 15% to allow for onsite supervision. That is 21,000 x 1.15 = 24,150 persons on post at any one time.
Now, to allow for weekends off, vacations, illness, requirements to testify in court (they ARE law enforcement officers, after all), and other mandatory absences, multiply that figure by 5. 24,150 x 5 = 120,750.
Now take the base number of personnel on post and multiply it by 4 to reflect administrative and logistical support requirements. 24,150 x 4 = 96,600.
Total: 120,750 + 96,600 = 217,350 personnel.
That’s bigger than the United States Marine Corps was in the Cold War.
Next problem: where are you going to get all these people? The Federal government has a maximum manpower cap that it cannot legally exceed. Assuming that BP/ICE reaches 18,000 as it’s supposed to by 2009, that means that you need to come up with 199,350 additional personnel. Now, you can try to strip it from other functions (such as the military), or you can try to increase the federal manpower cap by 199,350.
Now, here’s the next problem: the requirements for BP/ICE are pretty stringent. Are there 199,350 US citizens looking for a law enforcement who are physically, mentally, and morally qualified for the job, as well as having the required skillsets (criminal justice degree or other law enforcement background, linguistic requirements, etc.), and who are willing to work in some of the worst work conditions (climate and terrain) available?
And all of this is just to secure the US-Mexican border, even with a fence, sensors, and other passive/active barrier systems to slow down illegal aliens to assist. Meanwhile, the illegal aliens and their smugglers will shift to maritime routes, and the Coast Guard–already severely overworked–will have yet another insoluble problem to deal with.
blah blah balh right back at ya enforcement.
You have made it plain that you will not support any bill that is not 100% what you want. You will not compromise, you will not give the other side the benefit of the doubt etc blah blah blah.
It helps to win elections if you want to run things. Thus far you guys sorta suck at that. In fact keep it up and you will be completely irrelevant.
So go ahead, hold your breath til your face turns blue unless and until you get the bill of your dreams…but if the Democrats are in control of the Congress, you will have to count on the cooperation of Pelosi and Reid to even git it up for a vote.
So Cobalt your tactic is to come to a new blog and accuse the people here of saying things about you and then berating them for it when it actually was on another blog. You need to eat more tacks and sharpen up a bit.
It’s of a piece with your schtick, FE. (I’ve been lurking a while.) Meanwhile, you’re wasting valuable time pretending that you don’t have a problem. 491 days isn’t much time at all.
Approx how many times, on this blog, have you been referred to as a traitor or quisling?
About the same number of times I’ve called you a xenophobic, hate-filled sheethead–but I’m willing to acknowledge that (a) yes, you’ve been called that (if not here, then elsewhere) and (b) no, it does not add any value to the conversation.
So shall we dispense with the BS, or are you bound and (expletive deleted) determined to pretend that your side of the aisle does not have (a) a very serious problem and (b) only 491 days to clean it up?
Cobalt Shiva
are you lost? why are you posting here? never seen your name before.
The rhetoric sure does cause some deja vu, eh?
It helps to win elections if you want to run things.
That bears repeating.
Cobalt Shiva
Those are some pretty impressive numbers as to what we would have to have on the border. Of course that does nothing for the 40 percent that overstay their visas.
Well I guess we can put that military expansion on hold that all those generals want.
Verfication was the fence. I wonder tonight what discussions are going on in Boardrooms, Chamber of Commerce types etc about 08
Kathie:
Well they put triggers in the bill for the border, but needless to say since the people who put the triggers in are traitors and not to be trusted we will have to forget about that.
There is no way to just “close” that border. We can and we should improve the security there, but it will take years to complete that wall and something tells me that it will still not be enough for some folks to consider it secure. I think we could work on that border, the northern border and shore lines for decades, spend tens of billions of dollars and these guys would still be dragging their feet demanding we do more.
But even if we could do that, there will be people trying to get here before the wall is complete and since the hardliners do not want to do anything about dealing with the millions already millions more could sneak in here and they would still be doing their little victory dance completely oblivious to it.
In other words, it ain’t that simple, if it was we would not be having this discussion.
Loneferrett,
Most did not name call or simply have emotion based arguments.
actually 99% of the name calling was on the other side. the side supporting the bill. Haven’t you been reading this blog, vile, hardliner, amnesty hypochondriacs, on and on and on. (and they’re proud of it)
Show me ANY examples, on this blog of the opposition side calling names. Just one single example would suffice.
I have not, on this blog, even one time seen Pres Bush referred to as a traitor, it’s possible it happened, but I’ve read practically every immigration comment, and I haven’t seen it.
Loneferrett, see this example:
“Well they put triggers in the bill for the border, but needless to say since the people who put the triggers in are traitors”
It is the comment from immediately above from terrye, she has said people use the term traitor repeatedly, but has never been able to show one single example of it. In fact, she uses the term more than any of the opposition. check it out.
Those are some pretty impressive numbers as to what we would have to have on the border. Of course that does nothing for the 40 percent that overstay their visas.
Now, I have a dandy solution for that: have the BP/ICE do “workplace enforcement” the same way the BATF did “firearms law enforcement” from 1986 to 1995. A few McMansions going up in flames (with their residents inside and the fire trucks kept back until the place has burned out) on Fox News and CNN would put the fear of God and the BP/ICE into the hearts of scofflaws who hire an illegal alien gardener or nanny.
Well, until somebody blows up a Ryder truck outside a federal building. Figure maybe a decade or so of good times.
cobalt, so that would be zero? So the correct answer is fruit?
Yes, 491 days and if this is still a problem, I won’t be blaming Bush. No one will. At least he can say he tried.
Which is more than the likes of Rush Savagea and Malkin can say. Although I bet Rush and his pals got some great ratings out of this. Made some real money off of this. You betcha. Money talks. Nothing wrong with that. No sir.
Maybe Tancredo could threaten to use the military against Mexico or something. Now that would really get the juices going. hmmm buddy.
Surely they have some brilliant plan and some brilliant bill that everyone everywhere will love. After all, they are the experts.
FE: 491 days and counting. Time’s-a-wastin’, son.
Cobalt that is just plain BS on your part.
Take the time and work that solution backward from how many border personnel we have now and see how many miles/person rather than persons/mile your ridiculous example envisions.
“Maybe Tancredo could threaten to use the military against Mexico or something. Now that would really get the juices going. hmmm buddy. ”
Heck a leading Democrat said that the Dems should write checks to Tancredo just to keep him in the race.
IF anything the one nice thing is that his Campaign has gone nowhere
enforcement:
Can’t you read?
There was a post in the other thread about Bush the traitor. I saw a post where not only was McCain accused of being a traitor he was accused of having oral sex with both Kennedy and HoChiMinh {Glenn Reynolds linked to it} and I have heard Kyl called a traitor on TV, on line etc.
If you say you have not seen references like this then I can only assume you are being dishonest. Again. Rather like saying that people who support comprehensive immigration reform want to give illegals the right to vote.
No, I mentioned before that I am done with you and I slipped up and responded, this will be the last time.
Terrye
“It helps to win elections if you want to run things. Thus far you guys sorta suck at that. ”
Count up the number of elections for the House and Senate since 1994 and see which side has won most of them. I forgot, you can’t count. but you get the message.
Take the time and work that solution backward from how many border personnel we have now and see how many miles/person rather than persons/mile your ridiculous example envisions.
Thank you for proving my point: the whole problem we have is that we don’t have nearly enough bodies up on the border. The BP/ICE agents we do have are concentrated in a very few hot spots (San Diego/Otay, Cochise County, San Antonio). The result is that the illegal aliens simply cross in the completely unguarded sectors–which is most of the damn border. If you want to secure the border, you have to secure all of it.
Since we have 491 days this doesnt sound like a good start
http://www.taiwannews.com.tw/etn/news_content.php?id=476666&lang=eng_news&cate_img=83.jpg&cate_rss=news_Politics
BigLsu:
They have forgotten about that silent majority that Richard Nixon used to talk about. Nixon was wrong about some things, but he was right about the silent majority. And right now that majority is expecting some sort of movement on this issue. Tancredo is nothing like that silent majority, he is a loon and most people know it.
I tend to be conservative on most issues and that is why I have voted for moderate Democrats or Republicans, my liberal days are decades behind me.
However, I am also a pragmatist and right now what we need are solutions, not snarky, over the top, snide, outrageous comments designed to alienate people.
Well, they own the issue now. I suggest they get busy, if they are not going to let anyone else do anything about the problem they better get busy and do something themselves.
Too bad they burned so many bridges.
Yes…. well… Bush won more votes than any president in history in 2004.,…. but he has been disowned so I guess that whole winning elections thing is relative.
In other words, a great many of the people who won elections were on the other side of the issue, whereas in the last election the hardliners bit the dust.
If that trend continues it does not bode well for Republicans.
terrye, so you can’t read either:
“There was a post in the other thread about Bush the traitor. I saw a post where not only was McCain accused of being a traitor he was accused of having oral sex with both Kennedy and HoChiMinh {Glenn Reynolds linked to it} and I have heard Kyl called a traitor on TV, on line etc.”
I said ‘on this blog‘ and you saying that the hardliners call the Pres a traitor is not the same as a hardliner calling the pres a traitor. I can find many examples of you using the term in that manner, but NONE of any hardliner using the term on this blog. I notice you failed to link.
I haven’t seen Glenn Reynolds posting on this blog. where was that.
Why are you ducking the issue?
In fact this issue costs Republicans House seats in 2006 and my guess is after this tantrum, it will cost them more in 2008. Unless they luck out and the Democrats run a bunch of losers against them.
Imagine what the impact would be in the national race if the Republicans lost a state like Florida where there is a large community of hispanic voters.
491 days.
cobalt, you obviously have no clue about border security. The first thing that would eliminate about 50% of the border traffic would be to put out the word that people crossing the border would be detained and locked up. Walking over with no opposition and no penalty would no longer be permitted. If you go to a ball game and get front row seats at no charge, would you insist on paying? Would you take those same seats if you had to pay a heavy penalty for them? well, illegals won’t either. Then the well designed two row fencing with the clear road down the middle and large ditches on either side with surveillance will reduce about 80% of the remainder. No, there wouldn’t be tunnels, ground penetrating radar would take care of that. And anyone caught damaging the fence would get an additional ten years in the lockup, you’d have it down to a trickle.
That could be done in about 10 days, so that leaves 481 more to get the last 2%. See, already got it solved.
If you had thought about it for a couple years, you might come up with a plan that good.
enforcement:
leave me alone. really, I am tired of you.
FLorida is a concern Terrye. That is place where we should do well. I am anxious to see how the GOP hopefuls handle their vistis there while campaigning for that election
Terrye, you have to quit hanging out at DailyKos/Huffington Post. No one on this thread that had the temerity to read the damn bill and opposed it, has called Bush a “traitor” and you cannot provide one case where that happened. You also talk about a post that slandered John McCain and said that another blog linked to it. Grasping really hard for that last straw, arn’t you?
What not one of you pro-amensty hawks have ever dealt with is the fact that the Border Patrol, the boots on the ground and our first line of defense at the borders, were against this bill. But I guess those BP whose last name is Martinez, Rodriquez, Sanchez are all bigots and racists. So the very bill that you admitted you never read, but still supported, was opposed by those who have sworn to protect our borders and our citizens. But that matters not to you and your ilk. Just pass a bill, any bill, no matter how bad because if we don’t Hispanics are not going to vote Republican. Never mind they don’t vote Republican now. Never mind that there was never any guarantee they would vote Republican in the future. Just pass a bad bill, tax the shit out of Americans to pay for it, instill a practice of political preferences (illegals gain more than native born/naturalize citizens) and say “look at how great we are. Now all you good little Latinos vote for me.”
Well, news flash. Pew Hispanic Research Center came out with a new survey today. Even with all the hype over legalizing 12-20 law breakers, the Hispanic attitude has not changed when it comes to immigration. How do you explain that? I though all these Latinos were so eager for the illegals to be given amnesty? Apparently not.
Do you ever do ANY research to back up your claims, Terrye? Or are you just like the rest of the liberals who subscribe to the drive-by rhetoric and then refuse to back up what you say? The answer to that is a resounding YES.
And remember, you said that if this bill fails, you would call your Senators and tell them you want the laws enforced. I encourage you to get right on that.
terrye would be the first to say:
” I would never make a snarky,over the top, snide, outrageous comment designed to alienate anyone.”
see: here she says: “However, I am also a pragmatist and right now what we need are solutions, not snarky, over the top, snide, outrageous comments designed to alienate people.”
That’s her non-snarky, non-over the top, non-snide, non-outrageous comment designed to win over people.
retire:
Oh yeah, you want to call me a nazi again?
Hey, quit wasting time. You have 491 days to come up with the perferct bill that will solve all our problems. Get crackin,
Besides I don’t hang out at places like Kos and Huffingtong post. These days you can read a lot nastier stuff about the GOP on the right wing blogs.
I mean really, I give up. Uncle. I don’t even care anymore. I think the whole thing is just a big fat joke at this point.
So get busy, it is all yours now. Being a prick with me won’t do you any good.
Retire05:
What proof do you have that TerryE hangs out at either HuffPo or DailyKos?
It’s crap like this that pisses me off about commissars like yourself.
terrye, so you say you have to win elections to run things and I point out most elections have been won by republicans then you change your story to the republicans have disowned Pres Bush. I haven’t. I still believe he is the 2nd best, to Reagan, in my lifetime.
I don’t personally know any republican that doesn’t still like Pres Bush and/or share my opinion of him. Maybe you do, but then you say you’re a lib at heart and by roots, so I’m not surprised.
Terrye, I’ve pretty much learned that any post from For Enforcement is going to have a high insult-to-information ratio, so I don’t even read his posts anymore.
Aitch:
I have a confession to make, when the posts are done by enforcement or retire I just sort of skim over them and move on. I rarely actually read them.
Why bother. They are nasty. I mean that in the nicest sort of way.
I have never been to Kos and I have never looked at Huffington Post.
Like I said when I want to read nasty things about Republicans these days I can usually find more stuff on the right wing blogs.
And then there are right wing pundits like Noonan telling conservatives to stay home in 2006 and let the Democrats win. With friends like that…..
I often wonder if anyone has reminded Ms. Noonan of her words in 2006
terrye, so I guess that whole winning elections thing is relative. So they Don’t have to start winning? it’s not that important?
In other words, a great many of the people who won elections were on the other side of the issue, whereas in the last election the hardliners bit the dust.
But, I thought it was the hardliners that were fighting this bill, what? did we get a new supply of hardliners after they all lost the last election?
I need to leave you alone, you’re getting confused trying to keep your stories straight.
Aj, I respectfully disagree. The conservative base is energized; the people were overwhelmingly against the bill as it was written. Many like myself don’t believe the federal government anymore when they tell us that “This bill fixes everything”. They have been saying that since 1965 and we don’t believe them.
If they had just done a bill that “secured the border” and then actually secured the border then many of us might be willing to go along. But to tell us there is over $4 billion in enforcement but then when you read the actual bill you find out that they can take from that $4 billion to finance other things that have nothing to do with enforcement it insults our intelligence.
The conservatives are taking back the Republican Party. We are doing away with this mentality that we have to get along and moderate our views to attract more voters. That is precisely the mentality that lost the congress in the first place. True conservatives will be getting support for ousting liberal members of congress, and the candidate that best articulates conservative beliefs will win in 2008.
What today proves is that the people can still have an effect on congress. We can remind our representatives that Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed!
cobalt, you obviously have no clue about border security. The first thing that would eliminate about 50% of the border traffic would be to put out the word that people crossing the border would be detained and locked up.
Notice that I didn\\\’t address detaining illegal immigrants in my manpower estimate. That\\\’s going to be expensive.
Then the well designed two row fencing with the clear road down the middle and large ditches on either side with surveillance will reduce about 80% of the remainder.
Says who? You need to have people actually patrolling that road. I can cut a hole in a fence in about five minutes. I can kill a surveillance sensor (or simply steal the damn thing) in about one minute. AndI\\\’m an out-of-shape 40-something guy.
No, there wouldn’t be tunnels, ground penetrating radar would take care of that.
Now you\\\’re adding a lot of manpower to operate and maintain additional sensors to cover 2,100 miles of border.
And anyone caught damaging the fence would get an additional ten years in the lockup, you’d have it down to a trickle.
And the would-be illegal aliens would call your bluff. Imagine locking up another million people for twenty years apiece. More to the point: imagine threatening to incarcerate them, and then having to turn them loose in a few days because we lack the manpower to actually do it.
That could be done in about 10 days, so that leaves 481 more to get the last 2%. See, already got it solved.
FE, two points:
1. It takes a wee bit more than 10 days to put up 2,100 miles of double-fencing, sensors, and roads–let alone hire the personnel needed to operate and maintain this amazing system AND increase our prison capacity by 50-500%.
2. The 491 days I was referring to are the 491 days you have to convince a large chunk of the electorate that conservative Republicans are not the same folks who expressed these sentiments on an allegedly \\\”premier conservative\\\” website:
“We don\\\’t want spanish speaking little retards befouling our great country.�?
\\\”The fact is, 95% of latinos are pigs.\\\”
\\\”Most latinos are thieves and are corrupt\\\”
\\\”They can be referred to as: Human Locusts\\\”
\\\”your correct i believe only 92 % are pigs.\\\”
\\\”most Mexicans, especially men, are lazy good for nothing drunks who only care about sacking as many mujeres that they can.\\\”
\\\”why is the country of Mexico such a toilet?\\\”
\\\”Quickly, the fact is that we\\\’re being invaded by an inferior culture. Every person of low quality we import plants a family-tree that bears low-quality fruit. The rotten fruit of that tree will rot our own fruit.\\\”
\\\”The Mexicans getting dumped on us are the worst of a corrupt, dysfunctional nation; they\\\’re thieves and criminals the second that they cross our borders.\\\”
\\\”Every Mexican who comes here makes America worse, and this article is proof of it.\\\”
\\\”DO have too many babies (paid for OTHER PEOPLES MONEY). DO bring in disease ( T.B. anyone????). ARE PRONE TO CRIMINAL BEHAVIOR,(look at the outstanding warrants in L.A. and Ca. prison population, MS13 gangs..). DO dumb down our schools, CHECK THE STATS, (2nd and 3rd generation aren\\\’t even advancing).\\\”
\\\”The human locusts come here seeking freebies\\\”
\\\”Doesn\\\’t matter if they are rich or poor. They spit continually, throw their paper and trash anywhere and everywhere, don\\\’t care about other peoples rights.
\\\”Send the law breaking, disease carrying, America hating,goverment assistant stealing, law breaking illegal immagrants back to THEIR HOMELAND.\\\”
\\\”Nuke mexico and start over down there.\\\”
\\\”here, I\\\’ll just say it…I HATE MEXICANS
There, happy now? Yes, I do hate the mexicans around here in Utah. They are liars, dirty, nasty, germ ridden, law breaking, no english speaking, government money stealing, car jacking, 18 people to one PRIVATLY owned home, who cry racists anytime their little rug rats don\\\’t get their way.\\\”
\\\”They have all but ruined schools, hospitals, day cares, headstart centers, not to mention ruined certain areas all over the USA.\\\”
Now, you haven\\\’t said one word of rebuke to these folks, so you now are joined at the hip with them, whether or not you want to be.
If you had thought about it for a couple years, you might come up with a plan that good.
FE, tearing apart your plan took me all of about three minutes. If you spent a couple of years coming up with it, it\\\’s obvious that you aren\\\’t the sort to survive on your wits alone.
lsu:
I read that link. Not good. I know it will come as a shock to some people but not all hispanics are illegal, some of them are citizens and they vote. In fact some of them have families whose roots go back for generations. Going out of their way to alienate these people is stupid.
I never called you a “nazi”. I said you were goosestepping. AJ was the one who made the connect. Have you ever seen geese, Terrye? They march single file, one following the other. But then in your PC liberal mind, you could not be expected to see anything other than an insult.
Then you have the gall to call me a “prick”?
Let me inform you of something, little girl. I have dealt with big mouthed, screaming, irrational moonbats like yourself for most of my life. I have seen your kind more than I care to remember. We have a saying in Texas “all hat and no cattle”. That pretty well describes you, Terrye. All bravado and no substance. You have no basis for your argument, you just try to force your personal beliefs down the throats of those who disagree with you by out-shouting them. And your use of profanity shows your lack of intelligence and your inability to agrue a rational point. But that is standard fare with people like you.
You are no more a conservative (i.e. Republican) than I am a member of CodePink. But I am sure you would find a lot in common with the Pinkos.
Brandon:
Energized or crazed? Believe it or not, eating your own is not a good thing.
terrye, why are you dittoing this 491 day crap? That brainless guy said it and now you’ve repeated it n times. Really, you don’t have to suck up to him.
Brandon:
“The conservative base is energized; the people were overwhelmingly against the bill as it was written. Many like myself don’t believe the federal government anymore when they tell us that “This bill fixes everything”. They have been saying that since 1965 and we don’t believe them.”
I thought the Conservative base was energized last year or that what they told us after the GOP did their bidding on Dubai and made sure that there was no immigration bill. In fact they had a enforcement only bill to boot in the House. I suppose they forgot to turn out
“The conservatives are taking back the Republican Party. We are doing away with this mentality that we have to get along and moderate our views to attract more voters. That is precisely the mentality that lost the congress in the first place”
So I guess that means we do to put up hard Conservatiove in Maine, Oregon and other places. I am sure they will win. That policy has shown to be quite a sucess in California and other places.
True Terrye. I do start to think that people think all Hispanics are illegal. As I have seen most hispanics were very much against illegal immigration
It’s crap like this that pisses me off
better to be pissed off than pissed on.
The whole issue is this should never have been done as a comprehensive bill.
For those of you who choose to do your homework, you will find in the Thomas legislative database over 50 immigration reform bills on the table.
The comprehensive approach gave nothing but bad parts bundled in that caused fault with the bill.
For example the whole Dream section of that is registered on Thomas as a stand alone bill.
Variations of that bill have failed for over 10 years or more. It did nothing to address the illegal immigration problem in any way and was just extra baggage to this bill.
There are other examples, but this is an easily recognizable one just to provide and example.
Even in the debate this morning both sides of the aisle said they hated portions of the bill. That will always sink comprehensive grab bags like this.
In all the debate, many pointed to specific things that were broken in our current system.
Well guess what each of those has a stand alone bill already on the floor that address each on of the broken points.
So if fixing what is broken is the true objective, then instead of trying to do the unworkable comprehensive package and loading it down with many faulty sections, pass the individual bills that fix the specific problems, get them working funded and operational and then we will talk.
Again I am offering a solution which I have offered before and still hear the incorrect you broke it you fix it mantra.
My proposal is reasonable, workable and the way to get to fix the situation.
And what did they accomplish but to kill a compromise bill in the Senate without having any kind of an alternative in the Senate or the House or anywhere else?
Back in the 30’s the US government rounded up people thought to be Mexicans and shipped them out of California to make room for the Okies…well, it turned out that about 60% of those people were American citizens. There were no lawyers back then, those days are over.
Whatever we do now, we can just haul people off. There will be a process to everything and that requires money and people and time.
Cobalt Shiva
Good Grief. Was that all on FR on one thread?
speaking of brainless is that enforement I hear yammering away?
I like dittoing sometimes.
Besides the talk radio and right wing blogs have all been raving like clones lately so it seems to me that dittoing is quite the thing right now.
terrye, you could at least try to keep honesty going for you:
I have a confession to make, when the posts are done by enforcement or retire I just sort of skim over them and move on. I rarely actually read them.
you know very well you read every word and respond to about 90% of them. I think you must be a glutton for punishment. And Aitch saying he skips over my posts because they contain, such and such. How the hell would he know if he doesn’t read them.
Aitch, honesty doesn’t count with you or terrye?
Excellent post, Cobalt Shiva.
Oh, and: 491 DAYS! 491 DAYS! 491 DAYS! Better start mending your relations with the Hispanics while you’re hollering at Congress to go faster on the fence.
Cobalt
You are new here and some know you but you come in the door complaining about what people on other blogs say, follow that up with bath math examples and then drag more quotes in that 99% of those here would disagree with in any event.
Please calm down and address the issues rather than trying to paint a picture that doesn’t apply here.
I should have said, we can NOT just haul people off.
Lsu:
You see the problem they have is that they forget the Republican party is a political party, which means it has to win elections to gain and maintain power. Conservatives are not a political party, they are people with a certain ideology, and they can be in any party. In fact many are Independents.
However, most Americans are not conservatives, they self identify as moderates. I think I read a few months ago that the breakdown was about 47% moderate, 35% conservative and about 20% liberal. God only knows what the 2% is. In fact in 2000 Ralph Nadar got 4.6% of the vote and Pat Buchanan got a little less than 1%.
And there is the question as to whether conservatives can “take back” the party because they may never have had it in the first place.
When Reagan was president toward the end of his second term the conservatives began to turn on him as well and demand once again that they take back the party. But when one looks at the really successful Republican presidents, most of them have not been all that conservative.
They have been center right, which is right where a plurality of Americans consider themselves to be.
Terrye
Yes we have Hispanic legals here, that is an issue that makes the zvisa a problem.
The only ones who get the zcard are those who come forward and self identify as an illegal.
That means each legal anchor baby or green card or citizen Hispanic does NOT have a zcard.
So if one of them tries to get a job, guess what they will be considered by the employer as a potential undocumented person without a zcard that puts them at risk for potential fines if they hire them.
That was 16% liberal, not 20%
I think that is right Terrye
THe party is actually more conservative in some ways than it was inthe 70’s or 80’s as to the people on Power. The conservative base actually gets to 60 to 70 percent of what they want. Which I always found to be good deal
The problem is when people say lets take the party back who are they taking it back from? I see people that call themselves conservatives rant against the Christian Right. I see people rant against the Liberatarians. We have seen a ton of ranting against the business sector. It is in the end a Coalition. Maybe we are tiring of each other or perhaps the net and talk radio and cable news just gives to much a voice to one segment therefore it is amplyfied far beyond their political strength
I can cut a hole in a fence in about five minutes. I can kill a surveillance sensor (or simply steal the damn thing) in about one minute.
But would you knowing that either of those two acts would add 10 years to the 10 you would get for illegally entering the country?
while we’re at it, you left an italics html open in that post that you need to close.
Lsu
Sir the source of the problem here was a poor piece of legislation that was terribly presented and manipulated.
Talk radio only pointed it out and rightly so.
Sounds like you are trying to kill the messenger.
Cobalt said:
That’s some pretty harsh words, even for a lib and I think you owe a lot of hispanics an apology.
Wow. More name calling from AJ. Color me shocked.
Cobalt, no one here hates Hispanics. Some of us don’t like people that are in this Country illegally. I don’t see why some people can’t seem to distinguish between illegal alien and Hispanic. Are you trying to say that everyone who is Hispanic is an illegal alien?
http://www.rideitin.com
Registration opens in the next hour or two.
“Lsu
Sir the source of the problem here was a poor piece of legislation that was terribly presented and manipulated.
Talk radio only pointed it out and rightly so.
Sounds like you are trying to kill the messenger.”
No I am not trying to kill anything. But talk radio tends at times (with exceptions) to just tell what segment of the audience it wasnts to hear. It is view it was a piece of legislation. In reality it was part of the process that would be tinkered with more in the House and the discussion wouold have continued.
Talk radio servesa purpose. But fair and balanced it is generally not. Nor do I advocate it should be in all cases. LEt the market reign.
Also, I am not just referring to this bill. THe Dubai terminals lease deal and how they handled that discussion broke my patience on the whole
Getting back to the original post, it just seems funny to me that the main reason for the problem to begin with, for decades just to remind you, has been ignoring the laws on the books, and reducing the resources for enforcing the laws in the first place. Remember, we are talking a reduction of resources going back to the 70’s.
Now, they propose to fix those problems by forgiving the sins of the past (ignoring the laws again) and increasing border security resources. This has been promised before (remember Ronald Reagan), and all that was actually done was amnesty. The additional resources never came, and the resources that were there shrunk.
After reading and researching as best as I could, the same tread is not only possible, but highly probable. And, the resources that ‘honest’ illegals would use to gain amnesty would soak up what little resources are there to locate the criminals among them that have no interest in letting the gov’t know about them. And, it will encourage more to cross just to wait until the next shot at amnesty, still giving the criminals a ‘community’ to hide out in plain sight.
Until we stop the huge leaks in the boat, it really doesn’t seem to make sense to bail with a thimble.
oh what a wonderful day. as predicted, starting in august 2005, that no bill would pass that put enforcement second instead of first and separate. so as all you folks keep jumping up and down in your playpens never forget that crisis provides opportunity.
with so many of you hand wringers and chin pullers crying out that you meant it this time, unlike the last forty years, to truly enforce the border because it is priority number 1, here is your chance. the visa bill from 1996 and the fence act from 2006 are still on the books. simply enforce those two laws, not the other myriad acts since the 1960’s, just these two to keep it simple. if the congress, homeland security and the president would do that their comprehensive immigration amnesty bill would pass with flying colors.
don’t hold your breath. these laws will not be enforced as the last 40 years have proven. all the BS venting by this bills’s supporters were just that. they never, ever want border enforcement. the president desrves the tar and feathering he is getting. why? because he has been first and foremost a disengenerous politician when it comes to immigration. he has had six years to secure the border with 9/11 as an added incentive. he has done nothing of consequence. on his watch 5 million people have simply strolled across the border. he deserves his fate.
the status quo never felt so good. 18 states have started to enforce their own immigration reform. i expect the trend to continue. because of that i also expect a new bill that puts security first. then a separate bill with the freebies…..
things are looking up!
Lsu
Kill was in the rhetorical sense.
If talk radio is only preaching to the choir, just how did they change any minds?
I am just suggesting your ire is misdirected. The bill was the problem not talk radio.
And guess what, I have not listened to one minute of talk radio during this whole debate. I was to busy concentrating on the bill itself and all the faults that needed to be fixed.
.
“don’t hold your breath. these laws will not be enforced as the last 40 years have proven. all the BS venting by this bills’s supporters were just that. they never, ever want border enforcement.”
Thank you Patrick for telling me that I thought that. Silly me I thought I wanted the Verfication and ID card enforced. I must have a personality disorder
It’s interesting that the unions were against the Dubai Ports deal and the immigration bill…
Cobalt You and others like you are an ass.
All we have to do is apply the same laws Mexico does. I just love it when your kind throw out all this hypthetical illogical crap which has nothing to do with reality.
All that is needed is judicious application of FORCE. something this cowardly country and president is to wimpy to do.
( I also voted for him twice but I would never lack the courage to do what I think is right not based on what other so called republicans or conservatives do)
Why is it with all the manufacturing that has gone to mexico that we have to have them come here? How is it free trade when a treaty has to be signed i.e. ” Nafta?”
When people have no respect for a thing it is treated like shit.
That is what these folks are here for they care not a bit about us. Just to make a buck and send it back home.
We should tax them at a 50% rate through Western Union and the like..
Day in and Day out they run scams we are not allowed to do.
Commit crimes we cannot.
Get away with what we cannot
I have no problem shooting a few at the border. Then I will shoot some smugglers so as not to let them feel left out.
They are invaders pure and simple. Not law abiding people who are waiting in the millions to come here.
I am sick of the criminals in DC and their sob stories no one helps me a umemployed disabled City employee kicked to the curb with no pension but hey lets let them become eligible minorities for benefits I cannot get.
All civilizations die the trick is to see when you reach the half way point and stop it.
The Declaration of Independence obligates us to remove a government when it sytematically suppresses it’s consituents
Fools like you AJ, Terrye and your blind totally unappreciated nor respected kindness will get us all killed or our ancestors at least.
They intend to take over this counry, They teach it in schools in Mexico. They brag about it in public. What I do not understand is your illogical cowardly excuses in helping them.
“If talk radio is only preaching to the choir, just how did they change any minds?”
Talk radio in the end changed few minds at all. I mean to the opposition to any Regularization of the illegas no matter what has become Gospel among the hard right and many that listen to Talk radio. In the end talk radio has a audience that is pretty much set.
Again poll after poll shows that the concepts in the bill , including Pathway were not opposed by the majority of Americans. We are now on the third year of this and still we are not seeing Americans attitudes change on that issue very much.
However in the end that eventual legalization” is a non go always for many. They are too emotionally invested in it
Lsu
See my comment above about problems with the zcard and legal hispanics to Terrye.
That is where the whole zcard house of cards falls.
Immigration Bill Dies Again…
The immigration bill died yet again. Down in flames might be an apt analogy, but this is the bill of the living dead – it keeps managing to come back to life despite the overwhelming failures and inadequacies to deal with the issues at hand – securin…..
“They intend to take over this counry, They teach it in schools in Mexico”
Good Grief.
BIGLSU, As usual, you’re wrong again. You mentioned the conservatives in Southern California losing because of this, I beg your pardon, the conservatives who ran hard anti-immigration as you can get and they WON. Where do you think Brian Bilbray came from. He ran against a woman, Ruth Busby, who was the biggest illegal ass kisser who got caught in a meeting of illegal aliens telling then, “you don’t need papers to vote.” and she got clobbered!
Brandon is right, the republican party is going to be stronger because of this, not weaker.
A few drive-by comments, scanning through this thread…
FE: I just love it! Now you’re the Bouncer at the door of this establishment? Crikey, how many badges do you need? Sometimes you’re almost a perfect caricature of the wooden, authoritarian Republican. I guess anyone who puts enforcement in his screen name is pretty committed to the concept. So you’re consistent anyway.
Besides I don’t hang out at places like Kos and Huffingtong post. These days you can read a lot nastier stuff about the GOP on the right wing blogs.
Amen, Sister Terrye. I’ve been saying that for over a year now, but very few people on the righteous Right seem alarmed or the least bit troubled by the ugliness in our own hemisphere. But they do keep their Bibles prominently displayed and frequently invoke patriotic themes and the name of Reagan between vomiting episodes. I guess it’s like buying carbon credits or something… to mitigate the damage of their other activities.
As for Quisling. I believe Michael Savage has trademarked that word. It’s been omnipresent in Right Wingdom for a long time. I’ve been called that and damn, I still haven’t looked up the historical reference to see how insulted I should feel.
Cobalt: excellent snapshots of the righteous wingers in full frothing mode. I had saved a bunch of horrible threads on Lucianne last year but eventually trashed them because they were upsetting to me. I got many nicknames including “Axis Sally” which I admit my husband has taken to calling me at certain times, just to needle, and with great effect.
Oh, and: 491 DAYS! 491 DAYS! 491 DAYS! Better start mending your relations with the Hispanics while you’re hollering at Congress to go faster on the fence.
Aitch, the problem with that challenge is the wingers will tell you that Hispanics would never vote Republican under any circumstances. Wingers simply refuse to deal with the concept of voting Hispanics at all — they’ve wished that demographic away in their minds.
BloodySpartan – whew! What bunker in the Pacific Northwest are you posting from? I know, if you told me you’d have to kill me. I’m curious whether you checked in with the house bouncer… I’ve never seen your name before. FE, this is a job for you!
LSU,
“Silly me I thought I wanted the Verfication and ID card enforced. I must have a personality disorder ”
while you may have a personality disorder you certainly have a comprehension disorder. verfication and id cards have nothing to do with fencing the border and visa enforcement.
what they have to do with is rubber stamping and walgreens making a mint on passport photos……like the senate you never “got it”. you did today though!
“BIGLSU, As usual, you’re wrong again. You mentioned the conservatives in Southern California losing because of this, I beg your pardon, the conservatives who ran hard anti-immigration as you can get and they WON. Where do you think Brian Bilbray came from. He ran against a woman, Ruth Busby, who was the biggest illegal ass kisser who got caught in a meeting of illegal aliens telling then, “you don’t need papers to vote.” and she got clobbered!
Brandon is right, the republican party is going to be stronger because of this, not weaker.”
No Bikerken I am not wrong. If Bilray had lost in such a Republican district as that we would be in real trouble. However in other areas we lost. See Hayworth in Arizona as well as Graff.
There will be areas of course where the hardline stance is a winner. However When I was mentioning those States I was thinking of State line races. That is the reason I mention Maine and Washington where we we have relative moderates in Democrat leaning states that must be protected next election cycle.
If you think Bilray can beat Feinstein or Boxer put him up. Right now I think only a moderate can will statewide there in a major office.
SallyVee:
FE: I just love it! Now you’re the Bouncer at the door of this establishment? Crikey, how many badges do you need? Sometimes you’re almost a perfect caricature of the wooden, authoritarian Republican. I guess anyone who puts enforcement in his screen name is pretty committed to the concept. So you’re consistent anyway.
thanks for the kind words, in fact way over a year ago, when immigration was a hot button issue is when I adopted the name “for enforcement” of existing laws on immigration. That’s still my position. I wish I could return the compliment, but. no wait…. I can, you’re a really good suck up to AJ.
Now this was a little surprising: you said:As for Quisling. I believe Michael Savage has trademarked that word.
I’m a little surprised that you’re a regular on Michael’s show. I heard him a couple times several years ago. He doesn’t seem like your type.
But anyhow, thanks for the title. Bouncer, I’ll wear it with pride.
Someone had to be here to answer all the crying, AJ is hiding out, I guess, in his fallout shelter to avoid the falling sky.
BigLsuGuy
“See Hayworth in Arizona as well as Graff.”
I think you’ve run a wheel off, or slipped a cog. Hayworth lost to a guy that was MORE ANTI-immigrant than him. You might want to check out the details when you’re trying to make a point.
Um, let’s see. The Republican Party is now in the tank. Why? Because we have “lost” the Hispanic vote that we might have had 20 years down the road. I’m shocked, I tell you, shocked.
Maybe it is like how we have garnered the black vote. Oh wait, even though the slaves were freed by a Republican president, we still have not taken the major portion of the black vote.
Anyone who thinks that Hispanics would have voted Republican in the near future is using waaaaay too many drugs.
“with fencing the border and visa enforcement.”
Fencing the border as some envision it I fear will become a conservative boondoggle. Lots money and mot much results. Visa verfication and making sure we keep track of who is here and that people don’t slip through the cracks is important.
My point is that you I think you are way off that the conservatives and Republicans that supported this bill did not want its provisions enforced. I am not sure what you are basing that on at all.
hehe….Great Day to be a Republican. We won…RHINO’S lost. WoooHOOOO….
Of course warmonger For Enforcement doesn’t mention that
Haworth’s opponent was not saddled with the unwinnable war
which Bush waged. He’s still one of the 25% who support it I suppose.
Enforcement
I am quite aware of what happened in the Hayworth race. I was following that race as well as the Graff race closely.
I am still astonished that this rumor of Mitchell being more “anti -immigrant” than Hayworth has still such currency
But since you say I slipped a Cog and I need to check the details out
Besides the numerous Newspaper articles that disprove that , all we have to do is go to his campaign web site
His views nearly mirrored that of Bush and Rep Flake and Kolbe
From his web site
“Secure Our Border and Stop Illegal Immigration
Every sovereign nation has a responsibility to secure its border. In Congress, I’ll make it a top priority to secure the U.S.-Mexico border and stop illegal immigration.
I’ll deliver results, not rhetoric, and will work with both Republicans and Democrats to get the job done. This includes both securing our border and offering realistic solutions for the immigration problem our country faces.
Specifically, I’ll work to
Station more Border Patrol agents along the border;
Put more high-tech tools along the border so we can better monitor border activity;
Extend existing fencing in urban areas;
Establish a temporary worker program that allows us to keep track of who crosses our borders; and
Hold employers accountable for whom they hire.
I oppose amnesty and will not support it. Still, we must deal with the millions of illegal immigrants who are already here. Catching and deporting 11 million illegal immigrants, as some have suggested, is neither realistic nor wise. I believe we should give families an opportunity to gain legal status if they pay a penalty for breaking the law, pay their taxes, learn English, and hold a job for a period of years.
Illegal immigration affects Arizona more than it does other states – more than half of all illegal crossings over the U.S.-Mexico border happen here in Arizona. In the State Senate, I worked closely with Governor Janet Napolitano to increase the penalties for violent human smuggling, and I supported her decision to declare a state of emergency along the border. I saw firsthand how Washington’s complete failure to do its job continues to hurt our state. We need representation in Washington that secures our border and offers realistic solutions to our current immigration problem. I will bring that tough, yet realistic, voice to Capitol Hill, just as I did as Mayor and State Senator.
MORE: Read Harry’s Arizona Republic op-ed on immigration enforcement.”
http://harry2006.com/Issues.asp#Secure
I don’t think anyone was any under illusion that Mitchell favored a Comprehensive approach while Hayworth was fighting it tooth and nail
Well, I guess I wasn’t banned the last time I attempted to comment. Anyway, AJStrata your posts have been the weakest, most insult-filled reason-free arguments I’ve seen on this issue since the last time I heard Tony Snow. Just grow up, OK? The folks that oppose this amnesty bill don’t hate immigrants or Mexicans.I’m an immigrant and I’m certainly in favor of immigration.But I don’t believe the current government has any intention or desire of making the US border secure.The Democrats just get too many votes from illegally registered illegal aliens to close it and Bush-well, weren’t the democrats going to impeach him? For example, my mother- never a US citizen- was able to register to vote thanks to the motor voter bill. Do you think this should happen? I don’t- and I’m her son. If US law doesn’t matter there- why the hell does it matter any where else? If illegal aliens don’t have to follow US law- why the hell should I? There are many stupid laws I don’t like- if I was an illegal alien I could just ignore them. That’s my basic problem with this now dead bill- they get rewarded for ignoring US law. Cobalt shiva-I’ll bear any burden and pay any price to get the border secured. Got that? If my stance damages the Republican party too bad. 491 days? The future runs much longer than that.This bill would effectively result in a permanent rolling amnesty that continued forever. The left and George Bush want that. I don’t. If the American people as a whole want this I’ll happily remain in the minority. But polls and phone calls to congress indicate they don’t. I would have cheerfully accepted any bill that granted amnesty, citizenship, and a vacation at Disneyworld to current illegal aliens as long as it secured the border from FUTURE illegals. This was not acceptable to the left and George Bush. Too bad. It seems to me this is a situation like where a home builder keeps insisting you build the roof of a house before you build the foundation. No matter how many times he gets told you need to build the foundation first, he keeps insisting that roof must come first. Even though I want both a roof ( final disposition and likely amnesty for illegals) and a foundation (a secure border) I’ll be damned if I want to build the roof first.
APACHE: get that darn website up and running NOW!
I’ve had it over here with all these crazies!
AJ’s echochamber is so loud, I feel like Quasimodo ringing the bells!
The bells, the bells, the bells…
Sally V
I noticed that Big Lizards has a common sense post up
http://biglizards.net/blog/archives/2007/06/spin_city_here.html
It is some sanity and I hope we start seeing more post like that. It is a mode we much switch into and soon
Registration is open. Enjoy.
biglsusportsfan, don’t know your point, but your post on Mitchell supported what I had said.. Thanks for the support.
“Culture!” “Culture?” You call THIS “culture”?, a Boombox and a bowl of Guacamole dip?”
$10 cyberbucks to the person who can tell me what movie that is, that shows the clash of Amerian & Mexican cultures, in a humorous way!
Great movie by the way, one of my favorite comedies; along with “Just Friends”!
“biglsusportsfan, don’t know your point, but your post on Mitchell supported what I had said.. Thanks for the support.”
Enforecement the point is that Mitchell supported Comprehensive immigration reform and Hayworth didn’t. THe above shows that. LEt me put it clear for you. HEre is a COmmerical that Mitchell ran
GRAPHIC: Don’t believe J.D.’s lies.
VIDEO: Mitchell talking
GRAPHIC: Harry Mitchell opposes amnesty
ANNOUNCER:
Don’t believe J.D.’s lies…. Harry Mitchell will lead the fight against amnesty…
Hayworth is running false television ads meant to deceive voters claiming that Mitchell supports amnesty and Social Security for illegal immigrants. [www.jdhayworth.com]
Harry Mitchell supports comprehensive immigration and border security legislation proposed by Republican Senator John McCain and Republican Congressmen Jeff Flake and Jim Kolbe.
According to the Chicago Tribune, McCain’s plan “does not provide amnesty or Social Security to illegal immigrants…” [Chicago Tribune, 9/26/06]
And according to McCain himself, “That is not amnesty. We’re not forgiving anybody for breaking our laws. We’re making them pay a very high price.” [Concord Monitor, 5/23/06]
“Amnesty is forgiveness,” McCain said in March 2006. “This is payment of a fine. This is admission of guilt. … This is earned citizenship, that’s what it is.” [ABC News, 3/28/06]
Even the Republican Party’s 2004 Platform demonstrates the falsities of Hayworth’s allegation that Mitchell supports amnesty.
From the Republican Party’s 2004 Platform:
This new program would allow workers who currently hold jobs to come out of the shadows and to participate legally in America’s economy. It would allow men and women who enter the program to apply for citizenship in the same manner as those who apply from outside the United States. There must be strong workplace enforcement with tough penalties against employees and employers who violate immigration laws. We oppose amnesty because it would have the effect of encouraging illegal immigration and would give an unfair advantage to those who have broken our laws. [2004 Republican Party Platform] ”
http://harry2006.com/TheFacts2.asp
So you see that Mitchell supported Comprehnsive reform and Hayworth didnt. Mitchell was not hiding the fact as you can see in this commercial
Apache, my post didn’t show up, you banned me already?
LE; proud of you man!
20 seconds into the new Blog, and you get BANNED!
Aight!
Way to go son…
biglsusportsfan thanks for all that, again supporting my point, that Mitchell was more extreme than Hayworth. Don’t know why you working so hard to prove I was right. but I appreciate it.
Comprehensive reform would be great, amnesty wouldn’t.
LSU – just read Big Lizard. It’s an excellent post. You and I immediately see the wisdom of what he is saying. I hate to do a “but” but… my worry all along has been the extreme rhetoric, vile namecalling and undermining of Bush & so many other good leaders, and the staking out of completely inflexible positions. I agree that everyone — including me, and I am willing to shut up right now — should take the Lizard’s advice to heart. But, how are the extremies going to walk back the cat from calling our president Jorge Arbusto and much much worse, to embracing him as a conservative? I will pray for this miracle to occur but I am not optimistic.
Possibly the best we can hope for is relative silence or a temporary cease fire, but again, I think the intoxicating nature of today’s “victory” may prove irresistable. I think the mob believes it can parlay the moment into a successful movement and that may be the fatal miscalculation that sinks our ship, with innocents like you and me on it. I remain open and hopeful but I cannot erase my memory or pretend I didn’t see this day coming.
I second LSU’s recommendation, for all here who care about the future of the Republican party and this nation. See:
http://biglizards.net/blog/archives/2007/06/spin_city_here.html
Enforcement-
For goodness sake Mitchell has the same view of what “amnesty” is and What it is not as that is identical with McCain and Bush. It is right there in black and white.
Ignoring what happened in a politcal race does not make it disappear. I can remember Hayworth on FOX news crusading aginst comprehensive immigration reform.
HE had other problems but the mass of hardliners did not save him
This blog has turned stupid.
sallyV
I think in the end it will take events to happen and realize that conservative need the President. It hsould be obvious that just under the Const he is still revelant.
We still got a year to get as many Circuit judges as we can on the COurt. Who knows. Maybe iof God smiles on us we shall have Stevens retire in a week or so.
I think on those that supported the bill have a very pragmatic edge to them. We get grief over being realist but we know the Coalition must survive.
We shall see what organs of though like the National Review and others do during the next weeks. I think they will realize that a coming together is needed. I think everyone has to vent some steam.
However, if there is another war on supposed rinos like we saw in 2006. It will not be pretty
Hmmm…. no, I haven’t banned anyone. It would appear I have something misconfigured. Give me one minute.
Got a big news flash for all you pro-amnesty people; the Dhimmicrats never intended for this bill to pass. But Kennedy, the consumate politician, knew what would be the outcome of defeating this bill: a) the MSM would start carrying Democratic water by labeling this as “another” Bush defeat (they already have); b) the Dhimmicrats could protray the Republicans as racists and Mexican haters (they did that on the floor of the Senate) and c) the Dhimmicrats would garner even more votes in ‘08 from the Hispanic bloc (which they knew the defeat of the bill would do).
Kennedy wrote this bill so it would be so distasteful to everyone in America that it would be defeated. This bill was DOA before it was ever written.
Doubt it? Think about this; while Cornyn and Hutchison are on the floor saying that the coversation about immigration reform must continue and we must secure the borders and enforce our laws and then deal with the millions, the Dhimmicrats are saying that immigration reform is dead and will not be brought up again during THIS administration. And the president? Did he respond by saying “ok, we are going to secure the borders, as I promised, and enforce the laws and try again”? Nope, he said he was moving on to the budget.
Tonight Kennedy and Reid are clinking their scotch and water glasses together saying “mission accomplished”.
Well, retire05, anything Bush does, the Democrats will make sure it’s another Bush defeat.
Boy, those Democrats are very good at playing those games.
Do you guys really want to vote for these guys?
Did you notice that the House Democrats voted against blocking the cost of living raise for themselves?
The comments are up now. But I have a broken “logged in” link. I was playing with a captcha plugin and I modified some of the source code. I was using Dreamweaver and Dreamweaver noticed the source code change. When I went to upload the files to the server, Dreamweaver asked if I wanted the links updated. I knew when I selected “yes” that I was making a mistake.
Argh! I can’t believe I did that. I knew it was a bad idea. I knew better. I knew better. I knew better. And I still did it. I’m peeved at myself.
Give me 10 minutes to fix the source code.
Fixed now.
Tonight Kennedy and Reid are clinking their scotch and water glasses together saying “mission accomplished”.
They were in the perfect win-win scenario. Either they would get millions of new voters, or the Republican party would eat itself alive while simultaneously alienating the Hispanic population.
The Democrats, and their MSM accomplices, have managed to completely blur the distinction between illegal immigrant/alien and Hispanic. And the Republicans just sat back and let them do it. It was nauseating to watch. Even now, on this blog, posters are saying that if you were against the bill you are “anti-Hispanic”. WTF??? How do you deal with that kind of stupidity?
It was the perfect win-win scenario for the Democrats. And it was the perfect lose-lose for the Republicans.
noe=w we just have 490 days and counting
Even in victory, the hissyfitters are still throwing a fit. Now we have a conspiracy theory that the Dems planned this. They must be so smart….ugh…..hissyfitters are gonna put the Republican Party down into the mud.
The Dems planned this? Well you know, they did see the radical right go stupid over Harriet Miers and Dubai and so maybe they thought, lets give those wingers enough rope and they will hang themselves.
This is not a winner for Republicans, if it were, they would still be in the majority after their side show last year. Instead they LOST. Now, they can try to blame that on Iraq all they want, but the truth is that the races themselves make it plain who won and who lost.
Hey, but keep it up. The name calling, the conspiracy theories, the finger pointing, the complete inability to come up with a workable plan that can actually be made into law with some degress of success.
I mean you have only lost half the hispanic vote, get to work on the other half.
And the wall? I expect we will hear fighting about that too. What kind of wall, how long, made of what, how high, how many sensors. These guys will not be able to just build it and shut up. No way….and then they have to deal with the reality that there are other ways in.
No, I give up. As long as the radical right thinks it demagogue the issue and bully everyone else, there will be no solution.
And I mean it, if you guys think that this kind of behavior wins you votes, just stop and think about who the Speaker of the House is.
I honestly do not know what kind of fantasy you have to be living in to believe that this issue is a winner for this party. It was not just one hardliner who lost in that election, it was a bunch.
There is a reason people like Allen and Santorum lost as well. The right is wearing out its welcome and it needs to ease up on the rhetoric.
That’s some pretty harsh words, even for a lib and I think you owe a lot of hispanics an apology.
For Enforcement, those weren’t my words, they were comments by your true-conservative buddies over at Townhall.
I see you want to wish your problem away. You have 490 days to get the GOP Hispanic vote back to the level it was in 2004. STFU and get to work.
But would you knowing that either of those two acts would add 10 years to the 10 you would get for illegally entering the country?
1. First, you have to actually catch me. And that means we’re back to at least 10 bodies per mile. (A thin screen up front, plus a reserve to deal with mass crossings in any given sector.)
2. Once you catch me, you have to try and convict me. That means lots of bodies to detain, try, and imprison me.
We have 2 million prisoners in this country. Your proposal requires at least quadrupling prison capacity in this country–and all of the additional beds would be federal, which means that you would have to massively increase the manning at the Bureau of Prisons.
3. And, oh-by-the-way, all you have managed to accomplish is keeping the illegal aliens from crossing by land. Maritime smuggling promptly overwhelms the Coast Guard. Once they’re in the country, it’s unlikely that they’re going to be caught.
All you will have accomplished is to (a) spend a lot of money and (b) not accomplsh your intended goal. In short, you’re a liberal.
I see Terrye is once again remarking on the name calling coming from the right. Finger pointing? Terrye resembles Slick Willie when he was pointing a bony finger at the TV camera but objects to finger pointing by others. What a hypocrite. But I guess calling another poster a profane name doesn’t get you barred from this site if you are a groupie.
Patrick Neid is right. And the goal was never border security or employer sanctions. It was amnesty for 12-20 million law breakers. Had the goal been border security/employer sanctions, the President would have responded that was what he was going to do, inspite of the failure of the bill. He did not. Chernoff made some comment about enforceing the laws, BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT AMERICANS WANT, but it was just more lip service.
Anyone who thinks that this coup was not instigated by Kennedy is simply not capable of bumping two grey cells together. He learned how to manipulate the government under great teachers, his brothers. His goal was to load the vote and he may have done it with the help of our own President.
Terrye says we have lost half the Hispanic vote. Which half, I don’t know since we have never had half the Hispanic vote, ever. So how do you lose what you have never had? Terrye has failed to explain that to us.
It has not been us “enforcement first” supporters that have reduced the argument to such vitriol. It has been those like Terrye and AJ who have that honor. We have tried to use the very bill to sustain our argument, asking them to comment on the face of the bill, but all we got were insults and rhetoric.
Terrye, by your very hypocracy, you show you are no conservative. You are a wolf in sheep’s clothing but you have been exposed and anyone who gives credence to anything you say is equally as dimwitted as you are.
Actually the winners here were average Americans who realized they had the power, with their phone calls and email, to influence Congress. They were able to stop a back room deal that was being crammed down their throat without any transparency of commitee meetings or cost analysis. And they did all this while being warned if they didn’t shut up the libs on both sides of the aisle would begin to shut down talk radio, Fox News and would the blogs be next?….no need to have contradictory voices to the government…these attacks on free speech sound a bit more like Venezuela and Iran than the USA to me….but then the Dems do have an affinity to dictators anyway.
BTW, got my iphone…kewl!!!
Reconciliation? What for? The GOP has made it clear – there is no common ground anymore. When you cross the line they dump all over people. Personally I think I will take my chances with the dems more often. They are misguided, yes. But since the GOP just left about a million hardened criminals on our streets and dissed them and their culture and their families, that is as bad as surrendering Iraq.
If the hard core criminals decide to gang up (and I used that term deliberately) to show us stuck up Americans – we are in for a lot of trouble. The bill going down was minor compared to the hate the GOP stirred up.
They are too hot and unpredictable to deal with. Maybe when the clear out the hotheads they will be worth giving another look at. Not now. Not until immigration gets fixed.
snip/”Actually the winners here were average Americans who realized they had the power, with their phone calls and email, to influence Congress. ”
So, as I have posted before, this was all about power for power’s sake…
Some people needed to have power over others…instead of having power WITH others.
Same coin as the dems, just the opposite side.
it would be interesting to know how many of those calls to congress were from talk radio listeners who were TOLD to call senators and congressmen
yet the hardliners call US (the common sense conservatives and moderates) Bushbots, AJ groupies, etc. etc.
Who exactly were the robots in this case?
“Personally I think I will take my chances with the Dems more often”.
Was there ever any doubt that you would?
“But since the GOP just left about a million hardened criminals on our streets”
And Billy Bob removed how many in his 8 years in the oval office? And what about the Democrats that voted against this bill? No harsh words for them, AJ?
Where are your harsh words for the special interest groups that were in constant contact with Teddy Kennedy? Are you not even interested in how those groups could install phone lines that gave immediate access to Senate offices and by-passed the switchboard or who had a copy of the “clay pigeon” amendment on their web site BEFORE the Senators had a copy of it?
So if you are going to rail on the right, you need to rail equally on special interest groups that were bending the ears of Kennedy and Kyl while those two ignored the American voter. But you won’t.
R05,
After 2004 I was ready to become a republican and I voted pretty much party line. Not now of course! I would rather work with Joe Lieberman or Nelson from Florida than you hypochondriacs any day. Hannity is the Tellie-Tubbies for the immature GOP. I have just decided it is time to stop tolerating the mental midgets and giving them the benefit of the doubt.
LOL! And of course we expect you folks to be your typical crass selves! Why not go back to calling others here Nazis again? It\’s your best trick.
terrye,”"”Hey, but keep it up. The name calling”"”,
Are you really so damn dumb you don’t even know which side is doing the ‘name calling’ go eat some smart pills and get up to a 2yr level.
Even AJ proudly admits he is the leader of the name calling. He invented amnesty hypochondriacs, and several others. Your liberal roots and leanings shine clearly…….
jacqui ” BTW, got my iphone…kewl!!!”
how long did you wait in line, how much do they cost and how much is the extra monthly charges to use it. I mean the net services, etc. AT&T even says they are quite high. I have AT&T. just curious.
Wah Wah Wah…namecalling….Wah Wah Wah.
Just call a spade a spade. After reading many of his posts…..I can only come to the conclusion that FE is an idiot. (and I mean idiot in terms of your actions…HA HA HA).
When I first started reading, AJ was a conservative Republican, then he became an independent conservative, now he says he is really a liberal democrat, but then he admits just above “After 2004 I was ready to become a republican” that he wasn’t ever a republican, he was just thinking about becoming one. Now he’s not thinking that anymore, he’s decided he likes the pornographer from Va and the Dim from Fl who one that is lib enough for him. He must get really tired each day, trying to get his finger high enough in the wind to see which way it’s blowing, then researching the lib sites to find any new names to call conservatives. I guess I was wrong about him getting into his fallout shelter, the sky must have fell too quickly.
It’s strange how many of AJ devotee’s now are admitting that they are really libs, see Terrye above where she now says she was a lib all along. Wolves in sheeps clothing are still wolves.
Well, at least they are consistent, they don’t take losing well.
AJ, see this statement by Reader007 just above?
“Just call a spade a spade.”
you know that is clearly a racist remark, don’t you?
there is not one single thing about me that is liberal. not my political views and not my character in general
P.S.
never have been, never will be a liberal
Reconciliation? What for? The GOP has made it clear – there is no common ground anymore. When you cross the line they dump all over people. Personally I think I will take my chances with the dems more often. They are misguided, yes. But since the GOP just left about a million hardened criminals on our streets and dissed them and their culture and their families, that is as bad as surrendering Iraq.
I’m blessed with a relatively sane (if somewhat misguided) Democrat who isn’t going to lose her seat under any circumstances (gerrymandered district). Hell, I will probably vote for her in 2008. Hell, I may even make a modest campaign contribution. I hear most Congresscritters actually treat donors with a great deal of respect.
I’ve already told my local GOP to not bother asking me for money or for GOTV support in 2008, because the only response they’re going to get is “f*** off.”
FE,
You are the most confused person on this blog. I have NEVER been a Republican. And today I am more proud of that fact than ever in my entire life.
Sorry dude, but you can wallow in that mudhole without me.
FE, AJ made a connection to “nazis” since I, ever the farm girl, made a reference to “goosestepping”. Of course, in AJ’s community, I am not sure there are many geese for him to observe. Perhaps he would have perferred I said “goose flying” as they also fly one behind the other with a lead goose. And for anyone who has ever been goose hunting, you know to shot the goose in the rear because then they don’t scatter.
But AJ had no problem with Terrye calling me a “prick” which I think is just a little over the top, even for Terrye. (Nah, on second thought, it is not over the top for Terrye). Nor does AJ have a problem with calling me a “hypochondriac” or “mental midget”. Once again, the double standard prevails on this blog.
Now AJ, in his best John Kerry form (”I was a Democrat before I became a Republican before I became a Democrat) is telling us that he is going to vote left. To quote Jim Nabors, ” Surprise, surprise, surprise.”
We have no way of knowing what color a person is on this blog; black, white, yellow, red, green. But if we are against a national travesty, we must be a white, mentally inferior male because otherwise we would be part of the enlightened group that knows what is good for this nation so much better than the first group.
Hypocracy rules here.
At first, I didn’t completely agreee with AJ’s thesis that this division and fight over the immigration bill would splinter the party in such a fashion as to significantly jeapordize the next election in 2008.
After reading the various comments sections of his many posts, I have to say that I stand corrected. All the hissyfitting by the Right, EVEN IN VICTORY. It’s truly pathetic. Perhaps it is wrong to assum that the numbers and tone of hissyfitters that comment on this website reflect what’s going on in other blogs as well as in the Party. I hope so. It’s not necessarily the disagreement over the bill. IT IS ALL THE HISSYFITTING.
Very unfortunate indeed. I am truly scared of what is to come when we have to see either Hiliary Clinton or Barack Obama being sworn into office. I remember reading an article some time in the past where Dick Morris said that the only person who could beat Clinton in a Presidential race was Condoleeza Rice. I don’t think that Rice could win at the current state of the Republican Party.
If you’d rather become a card carrying democrat (led by Pelosi and Murtha, etc), rather than admit you were wrong….be my guest. It doesn’t bother me in the least. You’d just be punishing yourself for spite and you’d still be wrong …twice.
I don’t know, maybe I just have a different perspective on this. I’ve lived in NYC for nearly 20 years. I’ve seen illegal immigrant populations come and go as far as various neighborhoods. The Russians have entirely taken over Brighton Beach and Coney Island and are moving north. And they bring with them, their particular brand of riff-raff…ie..identity theft, computer hacking/scams, mail fraud, wire fraud, organized crime, etc. The illegal arab/indian/etc..illegal population seems to have found a place in queens and parts of brooklyn. They bring with them, their particular brand of riff raff and illegal activities. No different than the even LARGER population of chinese/asian illegals here or any other population of people for that matter.
Then there are the “mexicans”. hahahaha. In Mexico city, they call their local brand of roaming poachers/squatters…”parachutes”. They call them that, because in mexico…these people would come overnight to brazenly squat on your land. By law (dont’ know if it’s changed), if you don’t evict them within a certain time frame…they become legal owners of your land (at least the part they are squatting on). From there, they can request the taxpayers/city build roads, water, bring electrictity to them, etc… If it were one or two…they get run off. But, 30 or 40 will setup make-shift structures overnite…every day. There are so many…you drive by and on the back side of someones house property..you see nothing but white canopy sheets…dotting the landscape every morning. The landowner will clear them out..and the next morning..same thing.
But, truth be known by anyone who knows this issue first hand…there are a LOT of guatamalans, venezuelans, etc..central and south american people who are coming across the southern border. We call them “mexicans” because for all practical purposes…most of you wouldn’t know a dark mexican from a lighter skinned south/central american. They just come across the same mexican border to get here.
There are so many…..they have now dispersed from mainly southwest areas …throughout the entire country. Those summer jobs for money /work experience for school kids..are now career jobs. My morning commute on the North East coast, is never complete on the subway train without being serenaded by at LEAST one illegal panhandling Mariachi band..complete with outfits, etc. Ah..just like going to Border Town without leaving home! My favorite itallian resturant kitchen/brickoven pizza now tastes like fritos and arroz. You get tired of it and go to another place…and it’s the same thing. It’s so over the top…here…it’s just absurd. The illegal Chinese were so miffed…some of them opened Chinese delivery Mexican food restaurants…hahahaha.
Btw..since Dunkin D. announced they were requiring all of their franchises to hire only legal documented workers….I noticed my local one…has cleaned HOUSE! How many? About 3/4 their staff..all mexican/central americans, GONE. Didn’t take more than a day to fill every single position. And…as an added bonus…the new workers got my order right on the first try!! Progress!
DC,
I am not a democrat. I am and always will be an Independent. And while I oppose the likes of Pelosi I also oppose the likes of Tancredo. Always have.
Stop whining about the fact another traitorous RINO has turned his back on the faultless GOP!
I “am” a registered democrat. I have been since I started voting. I voted for Bush after 9/11..and voted for him again in 2004. I still support him today. I have always understood that poltical party affiliation doesn’t necessarily mean squat.
There are plenty of examples in both parties…to show that it’s a diverse lot if you are speaking about the larger American public..and not just the cliques that make up politics in washington.
Even among senators…just compare and contrast Lieberman…who was considered a fairly mainstream democrat not too many years ago….to somebody like Pelosi, etc. You can easily do the same on the RNC side.
It doesn’t mean squat.
It has always been the issues that bring people together or take us apart…and that’s DESPITE any other sort of political grouping anyone might want to make or use. It’s always been like that.
So?
“Stop whining about the fact another traitorous RINO has turned his back on the faultless GOP!”
You’re saying you were a RINO, not a Republican?
well, that was honorable of you.
RINO’s weren’t in the GOP anyhow, they were RINO.
There was NO party which supported this bill enough to pass it with no futher discussion. Not democrats, not “republicans”, not idependents..not anybody. It cut across all party lines..and even the EARLIEST polling showed that clearly (which btw..some of us tried to point out).
BigBue I believe it’s common knowledge the southwest is theirs, Hospital workers at Suny Stony Brook NY say the same .
They also tell my friends the gringo’s time is UP because we lack the cojones
Believe what You want I know what logic and my lying eyes are telling me.
BigBue I believe it’s common knowledge the southwest is theirs, Hospital workers at Suny Stony Brook NY say the same .
They also tell my friends the gringo’s time is UP because we lack the cojones
Believe what You want I know what logic and my lying eyes are telling me.
BigBue I believe it’s common knowledge the southwest is theirs, Hospital workers at Suny Stony Brook NY say the same .
They also tell my friends the gringo’s time is UP because we lack the cojones
Believe what You want I know what logic and my lying eyes are telling me.