Jun 28 2007
Guess We Need To Dump Some More Hypochondriacs!
I was in meetings all day, but I suspected the vote would not make it based on some early morning indications. I will be looking at the votes but it would seem more far left and far right folks moved to leave us in the same mess we have had for 20+ years. Well, there is only one answer: get rid of the fringes left and right.
The motto for 2008 should be “Stay Out Of The Fringes!”. For me that means I would rather see Webb (D) stay on for a while longer – at least until we can get this immigrartion issue fixed. And of course I will support Warner (R) if he runs in 2008. But if Warner retires all bets are off. The Dems probably will not run a liberal in VA so it will be up to the Republican options to see which way I would vote. But if we ended up with a Mark Warner type vs. an Allen/Sessions type VA would probably be all Democrat at the top of the ticket in 2008. I don’t have time for an analysis of where it makes sense to trim the fringes, but I am sure there are plenty of opportunities out there.
Until then I plan to thank the GOP for every victim of a crime by a repeat offender illegal alien for doing so much to allow these animals to stay in our country. The DO NOTHING NOW! crowd one this round. But each round takes a toll on them and they loose more credibility and support. It is just a matter of time before enough get tossed out before we can try again. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t want a Clinton or Levin or any liberal in office. But the Dems are willing to let moderates into their caucuses more than the frantic right.
Besides, the far right has run its course. They have nothing to offer new and if we need to protect the gains we made we can do that when needed. Yes, we may lose some ground, but that was happening anyway. You need to align with folks who will give you some part of your goals. With the GOP caving on stem cells and other matters their utility is about used up. They are victims of their own success. We have 90% of the stuff proposed by the Contract with America and Bush’s pledges – so take the progress and find opportunities for more. The one open issue is Iraq.
But if Bush’s Surge has done what is needed to stabilize the situation, then that too can be a success fairly immune to Congressional meddling by 2009. That I will watch. If Iraq does stabilize then al bets are off. Might be time to give the Dems another shot. Who knows. But anything is better than NOTHING NOW! – the new and everlasting GOP mantra. This was interesting – can’t wait to do it again.
Terrye, you have to quit hanging out at DailyKos/Huffington Post. No one on this thread that had the temerity to read the damn bill and opposed it, has called Bush a “traitor” and you cannot provide one case where that happened. You also talk about a post that slandered John McCain and said that another blog linked to it. Grasping really hard for that last straw, arn’t you?
What not one of you pro-amensty hawks have ever dealt with is the fact that the Border Patrol, the boots on the ground and our first line of defense at the borders, were against this bill. But I guess those BP whose last name is Martinez, Rodriquez, Sanchez are all bigots and racists. So the very bill that you admitted you never read, but still supported, was opposed by those who have sworn to protect our borders and our citizens. But that matters not to you and your ilk. Just pass a bill, any bill, no matter how bad because if we don’t Hispanics are not going to vote Republican. Never mind they don’t vote Republican now. Never mind that there was never any guarantee they would vote Republican in the future. Just pass a bad bill, tax the shit out of Americans to pay for it, instill a practice of political preferences (illegals gain more than native born/naturalize citizens) and say “look at how great we are. Now all you good little Latinos vote for me.”
Well, news flash. Pew Hispanic Research Center came out with a new survey today. Even with all the hype over legalizing 12-20 law breakers, the Hispanic attitude has not changed when it comes to immigration. How do you explain that? I though all these Latinos were so eager for the illegals to be given amnesty? Apparently not.
Do you ever do ANY research to back up your claims, Terrye? Or are you just like the rest of the liberals who subscribe to the drive-by rhetoric and then refuse to back up what you say? The answer to that is a resounding YES.
And remember, you said that if this bill fails, you would call your Senators and tell them you want the laws enforced. I encourage you to get right on that.
terrye would be the first to say:
” I would never make a snarky,over the top, snide, outrageous comment designed to alienate anyone.”
see: here she says: “However, I am also a pragmatist and right now what we need are solutions, not snarky, over the top, snide, outrageous comments designed to alienate people.”
That’s her non-snarky, non-over the top, non-snide, non-outrageous comment designed to win over people.
retire:
Oh yeah, you want to call me a nazi again?
Hey, quit wasting time. You have 491 days to come up with the perferct bill that will solve all our problems. Get crackin,
Besides I don’t hang out at places like Kos and Huffingtong post. These days you can read a lot nastier stuff about the GOP on the right wing blogs.
I mean really, I give up. Uncle. I don’t even care anymore. I think the whole thing is just a big fat joke at this point.
So get busy, it is all yours now. Being a prick with me won’t do you any good.
Retire05:
What proof do you have that TerryE hangs out at either HuffPo or DailyKos?
It’s crap like this that pisses me off about commissars like yourself.
terrye, so you say you have to win elections to run things and I point out most elections have been won by republicans then you change your story to the republicans have disowned Pres Bush. I haven’t. I still believe he is the 2nd best, to Reagan, in my lifetime.
I don’t personally know any republican that doesn’t still like Pres Bush and/or share my opinion of him. Maybe you do, but then you say you’re a lib at heart and by roots, so I’m not surprised.
Terrye, I’ve pretty much learned that any post from For Enforcement is going to have a high insult-to-information ratio, so I don’t even read his posts anymore.
Aitch:
I have a confession to make, when the posts are done by enforcement or retire I just sort of skim over them and move on. I rarely actually read them.
Why bother. They are nasty. I mean that in the nicest sort of way.
I have never been to Kos and I have never looked at Huffington Post.
Like I said when I want to read nasty things about Republicans these days I can usually find more stuff on the right wing blogs.
And then there are right wing pundits like Noonan telling conservatives to stay home in 2006 and let the Democrats win. With friends like that…..
I often wonder if anyone has reminded Ms. Noonan of her words in 2006
terrye, so I guess that whole winning elections thing is relative. So they Don’t have to start winning? it’s not that important?
In other words, a great many of the people who won elections were on the other side of the issue, whereas in the last election the hardliners bit the dust.
But, I thought it was the hardliners that were fighting this bill, what? did we get a new supply of hardliners after they all lost the last election?
I need to leave you alone, you’re getting confused trying to keep your stories straight.
Aj, I respectfully disagree. The conservative base is energized; the people were overwhelmingly against the bill as it was written. Many like myself don’t believe the federal government anymore when they tell us that “This bill fixes everything”. They have been saying that since 1965 and we don’t believe them.
If they had just done a bill that “secured the border” and then actually secured the border then many of us might be willing to go along. But to tell us there is over $4 billion in enforcement but then when you read the actual bill you find out that they can take from that $4 billion to finance other things that have nothing to do with enforcement it insults our intelligence.
The conservatives are taking back the Republican Party. We are doing away with this mentality that we have to get along and moderate our views to attract more voters. That is precisely the mentality that lost the congress in the first place. True conservatives will be getting support for ousting liberal members of congress, and the candidate that best articulates conservative beliefs will win in 2008.
What today proves is that the people can still have an effect on congress. We can remind our representatives that Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed!
cobalt, you obviously have no clue about border security. The first thing that would eliminate about 50% of the border traffic would be to put out the word that people crossing the border would be detained and locked up.
Notice that I didn\\\’t address detaining illegal immigrants in my manpower estimate. That\\\’s going to be expensive.
Then the well designed two row fencing with the clear road down the middle and large ditches on either side with surveillance will reduce about 80% of the remainder.
Says who? You need to have people actually patrolling that road. I can cut a hole in a fence in about five minutes. I can kill a surveillance sensor (or simply steal the damn thing) in about one minute. AndI\\\’m an out-of-shape 40-something guy.
No, there wouldn’t be tunnels, ground penetrating radar would take care of that.
Now you\\\’re adding a lot of manpower to operate and maintain additional sensors to cover 2,100 miles of border.
And anyone caught damaging the fence would get an additional ten years in the lockup, you’d have it down to a trickle.
And the would-be illegal aliens would call your bluff. Imagine locking up another million people for twenty years apiece. More to the point: imagine threatening to incarcerate them, and then having to turn them loose in a few days because we lack the manpower to actually do it.
That could be done in about 10 days, so that leaves 481 more to get the last 2%. See, already got it solved.
FE, two points:
1. It takes a wee bit more than 10 days to put up 2,100 miles of double-fencing, sensors, and roads–let alone hire the personnel needed to operate and maintain this amazing system AND increase our prison capacity by 50-500%.
2. The 491 days I was referring to are the 491 days you have to convince a large chunk of the electorate that conservative Republicans are not the same folks who expressed these sentiments on an allegedly \\\”premier conservative\\\” website:
“We don\\\’t want spanish speaking little retards befouling our great country.�?
\\\”The fact is, 95% of latinos are pigs.\\\”
\\\”Most latinos are thieves and are corrupt\\\”
\\\”They can be referred to as: Human Locusts\\\”
\\\”your correct i believe only 92 % are pigs.\\\”
\\\”most Mexicans, especially men, are lazy good for nothing drunks who only care about sacking as many mujeres that they can.\\\”
\\\”why is the country of Mexico such a toilet?\\\”
\\\”Quickly, the fact is that we\\\’re being invaded by an inferior culture. Every person of low quality we import plants a family-tree that bears low-quality fruit. The rotten fruit of that tree will rot our own fruit.\\\”
\\\”The Mexicans getting dumped on us are the worst of a corrupt, dysfunctional nation; they\\\’re thieves and criminals the second that they cross our borders.\\\”
\\\”Every Mexican who comes here makes America worse, and this article is proof of it.\\\”
\\\”DO have too many babies (paid for OTHER PEOPLES MONEY). DO bring in disease ( T.B. anyone????). ARE PRONE TO CRIMINAL BEHAVIOR,(look at the outstanding warrants in L.A. and Ca. prison population, MS13 gangs..). DO dumb down our schools, CHECK THE STATS, (2nd and 3rd generation aren\\\’t even advancing).\\\”
\\\”The human locusts come here seeking freebies\\\”
\\\”Doesn\\\’t matter if they are rich or poor. They spit continually, throw their paper and trash anywhere and everywhere, don\\\’t care about other peoples rights.
\\\”Send the law breaking, disease carrying, America hating,goverment assistant stealing, law breaking illegal immagrants back to THEIR HOMELAND.\\\”
\\\”Nuke mexico and start over down there.\\\”
\\\”here, I\\\’ll just say it…I HATE MEXICANS
There, happy now? Yes, I do hate the mexicans around here in Utah. They are liars, dirty, nasty, germ ridden, law breaking, no english speaking, government money stealing, car jacking, 18 people to one PRIVATLY owned home, who cry racists anytime their little rug rats don\\\’t get their way.\\\”
\\\”They have all but ruined schools, hospitals, day cares, headstart centers, not to mention ruined certain areas all over the USA.\\\”
Now, you haven\\\’t said one word of rebuke to these folks, so you now are joined at the hip with them, whether or not you want to be.
If you had thought about it for a couple years, you might come up with a plan that good.
FE, tearing apart your plan took me all of about three minutes. If you spent a couple of years coming up with it, it\\\’s obvious that you aren\\\’t the sort to survive on your wits alone.
lsu:
I read that link. Not good. I know it will come as a shock to some people but not all hispanics are illegal, some of them are citizens and they vote. In fact some of them have families whose roots go back for generations. Going out of their way to alienate these people is stupid.
I never called you a “nazi”. I said you were goosestepping. AJ was the one who made the connect. Have you ever seen geese, Terrye? They march single file, one following the other. But then in your PC liberal mind, you could not be expected to see anything other than an insult.
Then you have the gall to call me a “prick”?
Let me inform you of something, little girl. I have dealt with big mouthed, screaming, irrational moonbats like yourself for most of my life. I have seen your kind more than I care to remember. We have a saying in Texas “all hat and no cattle”. That pretty well describes you, Terrye. All bravado and no substance. You have no basis for your argument, you just try to force your personal beliefs down the throats of those who disagree with you by out-shouting them. And your use of profanity shows your lack of intelligence and your inability to agrue a rational point. But that is standard fare with people like you.
You are no more a conservative (i.e. Republican) than I am a member of CodePink. But I am sure you would find a lot in common with the Pinkos.
Brandon:
Energized or crazed? Believe it or not, eating your own is not a good thing.
terrye, why are you dittoing this 491 day crap? That brainless guy said it and now you’ve repeated it n times. Really, you don’t have to suck up to him.
Brandon:
“The conservative base is energized; the people were overwhelmingly against the bill as it was written. Many like myself don’t believe the federal government anymore when they tell us that “This bill fixes everythingâ€. They have been saying that since 1965 and we don’t believe them.”
I thought the Conservative base was energized last year or that what they told us after the GOP did their bidding on Dubai and made sure that there was no immigration bill. In fact they had a enforcement only bill to boot in the House. I suppose they forgot to turn out
“The conservatives are taking back the Republican Party. We are doing away with this mentality that we have to get along and moderate our views to attract more voters. That is precisely the mentality that lost the congress in the first place”
So I guess that means we do to put up hard Conservatiove in Maine, Oregon and other places. I am sure they will win. That policy has shown to be quite a sucess in California and other places.
True Terrye. I do start to think that people think all Hispanics are illegal. As I have seen most hispanics were very much against illegal immigration
It’s crap like this that pisses me off
better to be pissed off than pissed on.
The whole issue is this should never have been done as a comprehensive bill.
For those of you who choose to do your homework, you will find in the Thomas legislative database over 50 immigration reform bills on the table.
The comprehensive approach gave nothing but bad parts bundled in that caused fault with the bill.
For example the whole Dream section of that is registered on Thomas as a stand alone bill.
Variations of that bill have failed for over 10 years or more. It did nothing to address the illegal immigration problem in any way and was just extra baggage to this bill.
There are other examples, but this is an easily recognizable one just to provide and example.
Even in the debate this morning both sides of the aisle said they hated portions of the bill. That will always sink comprehensive grab bags like this.
In all the debate, many pointed to specific things that were broken in our current system.
Well guess what each of those has a stand alone bill already on the floor that address each on of the broken points.
So if fixing what is broken is the true objective, then instead of trying to do the unworkable comprehensive package and loading it down with many faulty sections, pass the individual bills that fix the specific problems, get them working funded and operational and then we will talk.
Again I am offering a solution which I have offered before and still hear the incorrect you broke it you fix it mantra.
My proposal is reasonable, workable and the way to get to fix the situation.
And what did they accomplish but to kill a compromise bill in the Senate without having any kind of an alternative in the Senate or the House or anywhere else?
Back in the 30’s the US government rounded up people thought to be Mexicans and shipped them out of California to make room for the Okies…well, it turned out that about 60% of those people were American citizens. There were no lawyers back then, those days are over.
Whatever we do now, we can just haul people off. There will be a process to everything and that requires money and people and time.