Jun 29 2007
GOP As Popular As Amnesty Bill
Updates Below
Think America wants the GOP shoved down their throats any more than the immigration bill? Apprently it is a worthwhile question now that they are as popular as the immigration bill:
FOX News/Opinion Dynamics Poll. June 26-27, 2007. N=900 registered voters nationwide. MoE ± 3. LV = likely voters. Except where noted, results below are among registered voters.
“Do you approve or disapprove of the job Republicans in Congress are doing?
6/26-27/07
Approve : 30
Disapprove: 56
Unsure: 14
LOL! There’s a success. The GOP destroyed itself by making it as popular as the Bill it defeated. Combine that news with the fact the GOP lost ground over the last month to the Dems in the generic ballot question, going from a 7 point to a 12 point deficit, and one thing is becoming clear: the GOP is not very popular right now. About as popular as ‘amnesty’.
Update: Some GOP’ers are in the bliss of ignorance, saying not to worry! Whistling past the grave? Who knows. CNN has the GOP down 12 points too: 53-41. Two polls, same dismal result. And look at the Presidential head-to-heads. Earlier this year the GOP always led. Now the Dems have a slight edge across the board. Nothing here folks. Just ignore it!! About as truthful as ‘enforce the laws’!
Major Update: Well, the polls are already showing the damage is done and growing with hispanics – a group the GOP needs some support from it they have any hope of winning any non-House races:
According to poll of 502 Hispanics in the field from June 2 through 24, President Bush’s approval rating among this population is 29 percent — low, but not significantly lower than the 32 percent showing Bush puts up among all Americans in Gallup polling. However, when we move from topline results on down to some more internals from the poll, the problems for the Republicans become more clear.
The Gallup survey indicates that 42 percent of Hispanics self-identify as Democrats while a mere 11 percent self-identify as Republican; 39 percent self-identify as Independent. When Independents were asked towards which party, if either, they lean, the Democrats’ numbers go up to 58 percent among Hispanics while the Republicans’ climb to just 20 percent — a remarkable spread. When polling one potential head-to-head contest, that between the Republican Rudy Giuliani and the Democrat Hillary Clinton (who by far garners the greatest support among Hispanics in a Democratic primary, though that could be a facet of her significantly higher name recognition), Clinton leads 66 percent to 27 percent — a far greater margin than the 50 percent to 45 percent spread by which she leads Giuliani among all Americans.
There is a way to fix this. The amnesty hypochondriacs will never face up to it. As long as there is no immigration bill – basically as it is now – then there is no way to demonstrate good faith with these VOTERS (not illegal immigrants). And even if the far right did all of a sudden realize the damage they did and tried to correct it, why would Harry Reid let them?
FE, don’t forget David Vitter, a rising star in the GOP. I am thinking it will take a cajun to really drain the swamp in D.C. Jindal is the next governor of Louisiana. It is time that the most corrupt state in the union sees the light of day. I guess the funniest thing in all of the Katrina disaster was Jindal (I think it was Jindal) saying “half my state’s under water and the other half’s under indictment”.
BTW, FE, 1927 was the little flood. 1993 was the big one. The water was three blocks from the state capital building in Jefferson City, Missouri. And my old neighborhood in St. Louis was underwater for the first time in it’s 120 year history. When the government build the levees in Missouri, Mark Twain said at the time that the old man river would take back what they had stolen. In ’93, the river retook all the land that has been lost and self-diverted to the old river run.
When I was a kid, I lived in St. Louis and used to go to the area that is now the Arch and the Jefferson Expansion Memorial and watch the barges and boats that ran up and down the river. I have seen Budweiser haul beer on wagons across the river when it was frozen over.
Some memories just cannot be replaced.
Thanks for the complement, FE. They are soooo rare at this place. But, I have learned through the years, it is hard to argue with rational thinking and cold, hard fact. And those who don’t possess those things, resort to tactics that expose them as simply unequipped to substantiat their arguments.
Now that should get me slammed.
Oh in both cases above that had 4 or 5 days supply of snacks and can goods to at least eat stuff that didn’t have to be cooked and several jugs of water for drinking to get by on.
At worst case when the storm passed they were about 2 miles as the crow flies from I-10 and they could have paddled to there and gotten to high dry ground.
“FE, don’t forget David Vitter, a rising star in the GOP”.
I voted and worked for David but I wonder how much of a rising star he really is. He does seem to have GRAND ambitions that I am not sure he can meet. However who knows maybe he has got a deal worked out with Guillani.
Biglsufan, if you have been involved in La. politicas “forever”, then you know that corruption rules the day in Louisiana. New Orleans, like my old town of St. Louis, is a lesson in Democratic failure. Both cities are swamps and I don’t mean the wet kind. St. Louis had the distinction of being the most dangerous city in the U.S. but I think that earlier this year, New Orleans took that honor.
But never mind, the illegal birth rate in New Orleans is now almost as high as it is in Houston. And all those wonderful French bakeries? Soon to be replaced with tacarias.
Retire
Corruption ruling the day in Louisiana was a big factor in the past. However much of that has been battled back. Nagin was elected and in fact to the horror of everyone outside Louisiana reellected by Republican party support because he had no connection to the machine. The fact that of course he had no machine generally made him pretty powerless sadly in many ways. That is one reason why most blame the Governor not him. Bit even Blanco is not corrupt and was part of the “reform crowd” It will be years before we can outlive the legacy of Edwards. A legacy that got extended by the weirdiest quirk of fate involving David Duke. But People forget we had a good run of Governors that were not dipping their hands in the public trough
THe New Orleans Machine though is a different story. Thankfully that has been decimated to a large degree. As to Hispanic growth that could be a potential bright spot. We are a State with negative population growth as it is. We need all the warm bodies we can get. However, for people to stay we have had something to work at. We shall see if that happens. OF course I am wondering how much of this state will be left if we don’t get serious about Louisiana Coastal Erosion in this nation. Soon the Coast will at I-10
BigLsu, I still feel like you’re missing some point. Hoover ran the flood relief and 18 months later got elected Pres. Question, does that indicate a lot of people were unhappy with what he did?
Dimmicrats were running the local governments that caused the black people their misery and they still elected a dim gov in 1928 (long). Question, if blacks were so unhappy with how the local Dims were treating them, why did they elect them Gov?
You’re saying the flood from 6 yrs before was more influential in the 1932 election than the 1929 stock market crash was? That truly would be a rewrite of history. I have never heard of Hoover getting defeated for any reason other than the stock market crash. Just because some guy wrote his version of history does not make it the truth. How many books have you read that attribute Pres Kennedy’s death to Lee Harvey Oswald, who didn’t have anything at all to do with it, except happened to be in Dallas that day. (and had been set up as the patsy by the mob, a minor detail) So just because it is written down somewhere, you can’t always take it to the bank. Remember if you were to read History from Adolf Hitler’s perspective, it might be quite different than the version a jewish citizen of Germany may have written.
So if you’re saying you’re willing to believe the flood had more influence on the ’32 election than the market crash, I’m gonna raise my price on my ocean front property in Az. It’s a steal.
If you are a lifelong Republican citizen of La, why do you talk like a liberal?
You think Nagin was re-elected for any other reason than that they allowed non citizens living all over the US to vote absentee ballot, a crooked election if there ever was one. I wouldn’t accuse Blanco of being corrupt, if she is, I have no knowledge of it. But I sure know she was a totally inept, incompetent gov in the crisis. She was totally clueless about how to handle the emergency. The least she could have done was get out of the way.
By the way, when I asked which Flood, I thought for a minute you were referring to Katrina, which of course the Mississippi River had zero to do with flooding New Orleans.
I personally think Vitter did a fine job in this illegal alien deal.
BigLsu, let me direct you to this site. here’s the link and a little excerpt. Seems that they say the Blacks didn’t go to the Dims until the 1936 election and it was primarily due to the prosperity of the blacks in the north during the depression. The blacks had always voted with the Dims in Miss, La, etc even before that time. Now I’ll say again, just because it’s in print doesn’t make it true, but it certainly seems to fit with traditional history as I’ve always heard it as to why Hoover lost in ’32. Read it and tell me which parts you disagree with. Thanks.
http://www.stthomas.edu/magazine/showarticle.cfm?ArticleID=-1377596272
1936: FDR vs. Alfred Landon
From the 1890s until the Great Depression, a Re-publican coalition of voters had usually dominated the federal government and controlled the White House. Republicans took credit for saving the union, freeing the slaves, presiding over unprecedented economic growth, and creating an economic and territorial empire in Latin America and the Pacific. In the 1920s, the Republican administrations of Harding, Coolidge and Hoover virtually merged the party with the business community.
When the economy collapsed between 1930 and 1932, voters ousted Hoover and the Republicans and elected Franklin Delano Roosevelt in a canvass that was more repudiation of Hoover than endorsement of Roos-evelt. By 1936, however, Roosevelt’s New Deal had destabilized traditional political alignments, causing some voters to switch to the Democrats and other voters to be activated for the first time, creating a coalition that would dominate until the late 1960s.
This coalition formed by FDR’s 1936 sweep began with the traditional Democratic voting blocs of Southern whites and the political machines of the urban North. Three new groups of voters also joined.
The first was Northern blacks, the only blacks who could vote relatively unhindered in the 1930s. Tradition-ally Republican, Northern blacks benefited from the New Deal’s economic recovery and federal relief programs. Eleanor Roosevelt’s public association with black organizations and advisers also influenced black political loyalty. A black editor advised his readers in 1936 to “turn Lincoln’s picture to the wall, that debt has been paid in full.” FDR won 70 percent of the black vote. Black voters have retained their strong support of his party ever since.
“half my state’s under water and the other half’s under indictmentâ€.
I believe it was Tauzin that said that about Louisiana, not Jindal. But Jindal will surely be the next governor.
Enforcement
“If you are a lifelong Republican citizen of La, why do you talk like a liberal?”
Enforcement I am not a liberal at all. In fact I am just recounting history that is neither liberal or conservative. It just is.
I will handle both of your latest post together
“You think Nagin was re-elected for any other reason than that they allowed non citizens living all over the US to vote absentee ballot, a crooked election if there ever was one”
That is pretty false. I could write pages about the dynamics about that election. I was down there in both the Gerneral and the Runoff. IN the General I did support Nagin but along with many Republicans was supporting one of the Democrats we thought we could deal with. There was no fraud to speak of in that election. In the second election the party diehards for various valis reasons supported Nagin against Mitch Landrieu. Nagin won because his support in Republican friendly precincts went from a dismal five and 6 percent up to upper twenties and in some places mid thirties. That vote , which is was Republican is what got Nagin relected. I can tell you with great confidence there were no illegals voting in that elction and for that matter any fraud as to that election was quite low. It actually went pretty smoothly for a City that had been decimated. THe whole out of city ballot absentee controversy was largely a non factor. We were all shocked by how low it was. Also,would not, if there was some plot , those votes go to Nagin opponent who the National Democrats really wanted in?
“I personally think Vitter did a fine job in this illegal alien deal.”
Yes Vitter is playing to the hard right on this issue. Partly because I think he has infuriated the base on being so out there for Guillani. However, we all joke that Vitter appears not be putting too much pressure on INS to come get the illegals out of NOLA and the Coast as they work like mad to help us to prepare for this hurricane season.
“Hoover ran the flood relief and 18 months later got elected Pres. Question, does that indicate a lot of people were unhappy with what he did?”
NO people were not unhappy with what he did? HE got great PR. But the what happened to the black community was largely not reported and Hoover made some amends for his first election to the important African American leaders in the Country at the time
“Dimmicrats were running the local governments that caused the black people their misery and they still elected a dim gov in 1928 (long). Question, if blacks were so unhappy with how the local Dims were treating them, why did they elect them Gov?”
First remember that black folks were not able to vote in great numbers in Mississippi in 1928 to say the least. In fact about only 6 percent of black could vote in Mississippi at the time. Also remember that the Democrat Party in Mississippi was all white by law. Thus making it even more difficult for the small amount of black officeholders. However blacks had some influence because they still recieved patronage from the Republicans when they were power in DC. Needless to say no Republicans were getting elected to statewide office at this time because the party was a nonexistant except for blacks and very few whites
“You’re saying the flood from 6 yrs before was more influential in the 1932 election than the 1929 stock market crash was? That truly would be a rewrite of history. I have never heard of Hoover getting defeated for any reason other than the stock market crash.”
I am talking about the shift of Natiowide African American vote from a Republican to a Democrat. I am not saying that the African American vote alone was the cause of Hoovers defeat. But the massive shift happened and largely because promises made after the 27 Flood were not kept. Blacks had remained Republican voters during previous Economic downturns. The shift of allegiance was on purpose and was in reaction to something
“So if you’re saying you’re willing to believe the flood had more influence on the ‘32 election than the market crash, I’m gonna raise my price on my ocean front property in Az. It’s a steal.”
I am not saying that the black vote alone caused Hoovers defeat or Republican misfortunes in that election cycle. What I am saying is that event of the 27 fllod led to the final nail in the coffin for significant black support for Republicans. However much of this is all swallowed up in the FDR legend and myth that all the Blacks just loved loved FDR and proceeded on the basis of that to vote for him and thus the Democrats forever. That is not exactly how it happened
This book was well written and recieved numerous awards. He also wrote the book on the the great Spanish Influenzia outbreak. Tommorow if the book is in at the Libray I shall return to this thread and pepper it with facts.
This is not exactly hidden history here. It is just that most people are not taught alot about the 27 flood in history(If they get that far) and they are not going to pick up facts about shifting political party alliances relating to it in most high school or College classes they might take
“Corruption ruling the day in Louisiana was a big factor in the past. However much of that has been battled back.”
Man is clearly unacquainted with the term, out of touch with reality.
I believe it was Tauzin that said that about Louisiana, not Jindal. But Jindal will surely be the next governor.
Oh I agree with that. Once Breaux was out it was Jindals for the taking. TO coin the words of Edwin Edwards”the only way Jindal could lose is if “he was caught in bed with a live boy or a dead girl” Legend has it that Edwards said that anyway lol. I ahve a felling it wasnt original
Your attempts to educate these individuals is admirable LSU. But I suspect it will be in vain. These hissyfitters want to just babble on….
Good try.
“Man is clearly unacquainted with the term, out of touch with reality”
Not really. I know that Louisiana is not Plato’s Republic but I take some pride that we thought against the machine and way things were run. To say the least 1987 was a pivitol year in Louisiana politcs when we started having major success. The Roemer Admistration was largely Scandel free. If Daivd Duke had not made his appearance on the scene we would never have had the return of Edwards. The Foster Administration(Republican for 8 years) was to Fosters credit scandal free. Even though I had major problems with Foster. The Blanco administration has largey been scadal free. There are still some characters running around but I am am willing to bet we are pretty close as to any other Deep Southern state (and non southern) as to “corruption” and not now so out of the ordinary.
But never mind, the illegal birth rate in New Orleans is now almost as high as it is in Houston. And all those wonderful French bakeries? Soon to be replaced with tacarias.
Left by retire05 on June 29th, 2007
OMG the chocolate city is in danger call Willy Wonka!
Lsu
I am not old time in that area like you, but I spent a couple of years there living in the Chalmette area building all those casino boats on the Lake and in Metarie and a couple over at Bay St Louis.
I believe New Orleans will be never exactly the same.
My wife and I had traveled to there over many years to visit and from the 60’s on we noted how the population had transitioned form fairly balanced to predominantly black.
We noted the change in feel and all the reports in the Pick paper of increasing crime statistics and inner city turmoil.
We even saw it ourselves. It wasn’t hard to pick up.
Gretna and the lower 9th ward and Gentilley will never be the same.
All those distributed refugees will have no incentive to come back. They are in different areas now which will be more to their liking.
What is the percentage in coming back to concentrate with a lot of effort just to make that happen and rebuild an area where you have drive by shootings more common than trees and your calendar for the week is which funerals to attend and hope there are no conflicts.
Yup and nobody had any hope for crawling out of all that because downtown and the parrish police forces when they died didn’t have to be buried, they could just be screwed into the ground because they were so crooked.
But still it will come back with the music that tells of the heartache.
The new version of Nero playing his fiddle for Rome.
Oh god they are still babbling about the illegal birth rate, about which they have done absolutely nothing.
Nothing. The situation they said was intolerable is still exactly like it was and they have done nothing to fix, change, improve or alter it. Zip.
My own family is Indian, British, Irish and German. I guess that makes me, along with most of us, anchor babies. We are not citizens because our parents were born here, we are citizens because we were born here.. Unless we are naturalized ofcourse.
But then when my people came here all that was necessary was to get off the boat.
Now many of these hispanics that the hardliners like to call names have families who can trace their families back generations in this country. Further even than my own people.
Back in the 20’s the same sort of over the top shrieking rhetoric we hear today was used against the Jews and the Catholics, in fact in the 20’s the Republicans had short term success in keeping some of those people out. It was a generation before many Catholics and Jews would consider voting Republican after that. The Jews blamed these kind of xenophobes years later when their people were being denied entry and as such were doomed to death in Europe.
And then of course when it comes to the South it should be remembered that a lot of the people down there today who are considered Republicans were in fact Democrats not all that long ago.
Things shift, once upon a time New York was a Republican state.
But hey, to the dim bulbs on the right they won because everything is just like it was…which means they can go right on bitching which is all they really care about anyway.
Maybe this can salvaged, at least in pieces…but in order to pass a bill it has to be something the Democrats will tolerate and that is why there was so much in the bill. In other words, the idea was to let everyone have something they wanted.
People can say that is too complicated, but the alternative is a bunch of narrow minded people with no sense of history or a view for the larger picture killing a bill for no reason other than to throw their weight around or punish a particular class of people.
I don’t think those people they targeted will forget. I know I won’t. I have lost respect for a lot of people in the course of this debate. I do not listen to them, read them, watch them. NRO might as well be Kos as far as I am concerned, they are mostly loons.
But don’t worry, I am sure traitors like me will get over it.
A little more history:
From a speech given by Robert H. Clancy, Republican Congressman on April 8,1924 in regards to a restrictionist bill he considered “un-American”:
Since the foundations of the American commonwealth were laid in colonial times over 300 years ago, vigorous complaint and more or less bitter persecution have been aimed at newcomers to our shores. Also the congressional reports of about 1840 are full of abuse of English, Scotch, Welsh immigrants as paupers, criminals, and so forth.
Old citizens in Detroit of Irish and German descent have told me of the fierce tirades and propaganda directed against the great waves of Irish and Germans who came over from 1840 on for a few decades to escape civil, racial, and religious persecution in their native lands.
The “Know-Nothings,†lineal ancestors of the Ku-Klux Klan, bitterly denounced the Irish and Germans as mongrels, scum, foreigners, and a menace to our institutions, much as other great branches of the Caucasian race of glorious history and antecedents are berated to-day. All are riff-raff, unassimilables, “foreign devils,†swine not fit to associate with the great chosen people—a form of national pride and hallucination as old as the division of races and nations.
But to-day it is the Italians, Spanish, Poles, Jews, Greeks, Russians, Balkanians, and so forth, who are the racial lepers. And it is eminently fitting and proper that so many Members of this House with names as Irish as Paddy’s pig, are taking the floor these days to attack once more as their kind has attacked for seven bloody centuries the fearful fallacy of chosen peoples and inferior peoples. The fearful fallacy is that one is made to rule and the other to be abominated. . . .
In this bill we find racial discrimination at its worst—a deliberate attempt to go back 84 years in our census taken every 10 years so that a blow may be aimed at peoples of eastern and southern Europe, particularly at our recent allies in the Great War—Poland and Italy.
Jews In Detroit Are Good Citizens
Of course the Jews too are aimed at, not directly, because they have no country in Europe they can call their own, but they are set down among the inferior peoples. Much of the animus against Poland and Russia, old and new, with the countries that have arisen from the ruins of the dead Czar’s European dominions, is directed against the Jew.
We have many American citizens of Jewish descent in Detroit, tens of thousands of them—active in every profession and every walk of life. They are particularly active in charities and merchandising. One of our greatest judges, if not the greatest, is a Jew. Surely no fair-minded person with a knowledge of the facts can say the Jews or Detroit are a menace to the city’s or the country’s well-being. . . .
Forty or fifty thousand Italian-Americans live in my district in Detroit. They are found in all walks and classes of life—common hard labor, the trades, business, law, medicine, dentistry, art, literature, banking, and so forth.
They rapidly become Americanized, build homes, and make themselves into good citizens. They brought hardihood, physique, hope, and good humor with them from their outdoor life in Sunny Italy, and they bear up under the terrific strain of life and work in busy Detroit.
One finds them by thousands digging streets, sewers, and building foundations, and in the automobile and iron and steel fabric factories of various sorts. They do the hard work that the native-born American dislikes. Rapidly they rise in life and join the so-called middle and upper classes. . . .
The Italian-Americans of Detroit played a glorious part in the Great War. They showed themselves as patriotic as the native born in offering the supreme sacrifice.
In all, I am informed, over 300,000 Italian-speaking soldiers enlisted in the American Army, almost 10 percent of our total fighting force. Italians formed about 4 percent of the population of the United States and they formed 10 percent of the American military force. Their casualties were 12 percent. . . .
Detroit Satisfied With The Poles
I wish to take the liberty of informing the House that from my personal knowledge and observation of tens of thousands of Polish-Americans living in my district in Detroit that their Americanism and patriotism are unassailable from any fair or just standpoint.
The Polish-Americans are as industrious and as frugal and as loyal to our institutions as any class of people who have come to the shores of this country in the past 300 years. They are essentially home builders, and they have come to this country to stay. They learn the English language as quickly as possible, and take pride in the rapidity with which they become assimilated and adopt our institutions.
Too bad there were not more Republicans like Clancy, but then as now he was the exception to the rule. I wonder if they called him traitor for thinking that Poles and Jews and Italians and Catholics could ever be real Americans.
Actually the center collapsed on the immigration bill. They did not event get a plurality – and most of the freshman Dems voted against cloture – so this was not just a far right vote. I always find that when people resort to name-calling and hateful accusations to prove their point – then they lack facts to win the day – high on emotion and low on logic.
I don’t care about either party or any special interest pac for illegals and amnesty – I care about my children living in a free country – and living without fear of terrorism or having socialism turning them into servants of the state with taxation and overbearing regulations. I will vote for whichever politcian can guarantee this – regardless of party affiliation.