I believe a “virtual fence” is the best solution, along with worker ID’s and immigrant data bases.

The “virtual fence” will pinpoint the breach locations and permit border patrol to interdict.

“Why some people feel the need to argue with historical fact is beyond me. ”

If that statement is not the stupidest, most ignorant statement I have ever read, it certainly ranks right there at the top.

Do you not know that “historical fact” depends on whose HIStory it is.

I’m sure your write up of the HIStory of the recent immigration bill in the Senate would not resemble my write up of the same event.

In BigLsu’s case, he himself started out with one version of the history of an event and he himself totally destroyed his own argument.

If you recall, he started by saying the Blacks in the south switched parties and has ended up saying they weren’t even allowed in the parties. how the hell can you switch from one party to the other and never be a member of either. Go ahead and jump into something again that you don’t have a clue about, as this matter and continue to look like a clueless apple polisher.

Well, let’t ask the opposite. So, if walls don’t work in one application, they won’t work in any?

Prisons work on the principle of keeping people in and keeping people out. I’m guessing the successs rate is above 99.5%.

You didn’t say if you rely on walls of your house or not?

President Bush signed the Border Fence Bill in October 2006 which called for more than 700 miles of double-layer fencing spread across 854 of the 1,952 miles of border between Brownsville and San Diego.

Instead of building the fence as stated in the bill and as written by congress, the President and Homeland Security signed a contract with Boeing to build a “virtual fence” that as of last week, didn’t even work.

The President and Homeland Security have decided to build 370 miles of fencing at the border and create a “virtual” fence of electronic surveillance for the rest.

That is not what the bill said and is not what Congress passed, so yes Bush is to blame for the Border Fence not being constructed. A fence stops traffic, a camera will take their picture.

SBD

It was not a proud moment for the Republican party or the country for that matter.

It would be almost a century before southern blacks would regain the rights they had between 1865 and 1876. I have often wondered if they had not been sent back to the quarters and if their assimilation into the rest of society had been allowed to continue without this travesty, how different things might be today.

It is not complicated, they just want to show their asses and argue the point for the hell of it.

Blacks moved north where they could vote and they began to go to the Democrats because the Republicans had let them down so many times and because they wanted to put pressure on the Democrats. Meanwhile, the Democrats wanted that vote in the north and they began to work at gaining black support. That in turn enraged the southern Democrats and the shift began there as well.

Even in Truman’s time there was talk of the black vote. In fact some white southerners said that was why they integrated the military, to get the black vote.

Why some people feel the need to argue with historical fact is beyond me. I guess they just can not face the truth.

For instance, I keep hearing how Bush was not tough enough on certain issues and yet there is a segment of the right who seems bound and determined to weaken him and render him powerless. After which they bitch even more because he is not more forceful. Go figure.

You see, if you want to know how clueless the hardliners are, all you have to do is read this thread. On one hand they say they want to secure the border first and then they will discuss the rest of the issues. On the other hand they say they will never support the rest of the issues, thereby making it obvious why they keep failing to pass any kind of meaningful reform.

The Democrats control the House and the Senate and they are going to require that they get something they want as well. If the babies on the right can not understand that and want to take their marbles and go home, fine, but then they should not pretend they are serious about making policy. They just want their way and screw everyone else.

And no, Bush can not go down there like Patton and just slap up a wall. Patton would not have been able to fight the Battle of the Bulge is the Congress had not paid for the bullets.

I mean really, people just do not have a clue. This is a government project, and that means red tape.

Besides that big projects take a long time anymore. They have not built anything where the WTC was yet, and that is mostly private money.

Imagine how much more complicated it gets when you have to deal with state, local and federal government regulations.

Everyone in the United States has seen and understands the problems posed by illegal immigration. The people in this country in poll after poll want our border protected, yet our elected officials continue to do nothing. Haven’t you ever wondered why this never seems to get fixed? The reason lies in the creation of the Federal Reserve Banking System.

Meyer Amschel Rothschild, the man who founded the Rothschild empire, once said very memorably, “Give me control of a nation’s currency and I care not who makes the laws.”

That quote explains why our elected officials can do nothing to protect our borders and continue to push the current Immigration Bill.

Here is why:

“America now depends on more and more debt creation to drive a given dollar increase of GDP – - called Debt Productivity. Like a druggie, we need more debt each year than the year before. Additionally, as reported in the International Trade Report, the explosion of debt has generated consumption so far beyond the nation’s means (own production and savings) that soaring imports created record trade deficits – - threatening economic independence and national security. It is clear GDP has been driven by more and more debt (instead of production and savings) and this debt explosion was facilitated by centrally planned interest rates. Such rates now are at record lows and there does not appear anywhere for the Federal Reserve to go from here to further lower interest rates to drive even more debt creation to keep the debt-economy growing.”

The financial sector’s debt ratio zoomed from 5% of the economy’s national income in 1957 to 135% of today’s economy – a debt ratio growth rate 27 times faster than general economic growth – and, pointing upward faster and faster.

Household debt (today at 122% debt ratio, or $12.1 trillion) – from 43% of national income to today’s 122% debt ratio, nearly three times the prior ratio – meaning it, too, has increased much faster than general growth of the economy.

The fact household debt ratios have reached historic highs during the so-called boom years of the 1990s proves that the economy was more driven by debt than anything else and households have excessive debt instead of reduced debt at end of an expansion period.

Household debt is primarily made up of mortgage debt and credit (credit cards, auto loans, etc.). In 2006 household debt increased 9% over the prior year to $12.8 trillion, incl. $9.7 trillion mortgage debt and $2.4 trillion credit debt. Today’s household debt ratio of 122% soared above the past with the debt ratio more than double that of 1985.”

If we look back to 1986, we will find the last Amnesty Bill and since then, the debt ratio has more then doubled which had sustained the economy being driven by debt. To keep this ponzi scheme going, the Federal Reserve needs to create more debt. They knew this would be true back in 1986 which is why the border has been and continues to be left open.

Think about it, the people of this country were fed a load of bull in 1986. Border enforcement has gotten worse, not better. If the border would have been enforced in 1986, then how could the Federal Reserve create new debtors in 2007? We were all duped again in 2000 when Bush promised as a campaign promise to protect the border if he got elected. After he was elected and even after 911, the border remains unprotected. The will of the people is being thwarted by those who really run the country, the Federal Reserve.

This is the reason Bank of America now issues credit cards to illegal aliens, even with no SSN, and is the reason the Federal Reserve created ” Directo a México” allowing illegal immigrants to open bank accounts and send money to Mexico.

The United States of America, that used to be the biggest creditor on earth is now the biggest international debtor with exploding trade deficits.

Thus, the only way to beat the illegal immigration problem is to fix the economic problem by finally addressing our Federal Reserve Banking System which was created in violation of The Constitution of the United States. Fix this problem, and The United States of America will once again be for the people and run by the people as initially intended by our founders.

Don’t expect the Federal Reserve to give up this fight in any way. Watch in disbelief as just enough of our elected officials who voted against the Immigration Bill are voted out of office in 2008 to make it pass soon after. Then prepare yourself for the North American Union that follows to once again create more debt to keep the debt economy growing.

SBD

A quote from the article; “We all know about the Loral Corp.’s transfer of technology that permitted the criminal regime in Beijing to better target U.S. cities with nuclear weapons. I believe the Rosenbergs were executed for a crime similar in nature, but one which actually left our civilian population far less vulnerable”.

President Clinton covered this treasonous transfer of our most secret technology by an executive order, after the fact, if my memory is correct and this technology not only fixed China’s launching problem, it gave them the technology to put mutiple warheads on their missles. Call this what you will but I call it criminal. Thats one heck of a lot more serious that building 800 miles of security fence to keep the terrorists out.

How about the Chinese campaign contributions to Clinton, right in the whitehouse, if thats not enough for you.

That’s been the trouble with your side from the beginning. Simple minded solutions to complex problems and dumbed down cliches (“secure the border first,” “invasions” and “criminals.”).

You folks need to learn about multi-tasking and proportionality. The right solution for the problem.

Didn’t you just say that blacks didn’t belong to parties because they couldn’t vote? did you or did you not say that?

So, your great hypothesis boils down to:
Blacks in the south didn’t like Hoover starting AFTER he was elected pres, so they switched and voted (even tho you said they couldn’t vote) for FDR in ’32.

Supply me any numbers from anywhere that show a big change (of the scale that would effect a presidential election) in black registration between ’28 and ’32 from Repub to Dim and that it was significant in the election of FDR and I’ll believe you. I’m going to say that I could find that data for the change between 32 and 36, but not prior to 32. I have a strange feeling you’re gonna try to distract me again.

“Good Grief. What was happening to Southern Registration in these south States is not hwat is important. ”

Then why did you start out with the proposition that the black Republicans in the south changing over from the Republican party and voting dimmicrat and electing FDR in 1932 and had been dimmicrat every since. and now it’s not important. Then why did you make a point of it?

Your whole deal was all this crap about why the blacks were Repub but went dim and elected FDR in 32 and are still dims, and them switching sides WASN”T what your story was about? Geez,

maybe you really don’t know what fences are for.

For you people that think walls don’t work. What the hell do you hold the roof of your house up with?

Ok let me lay this out for you

Blacks were for obvious reason Republicans

Blacks Remained Republicans even in the South despite the fact that Federal Govt even when it was under Repuiblican Control did not have great track records of protecting Black Civil rights in the decades that followed.

IN the 20′s Blacks were still mainly Republicans with some voices expressing the need to expand influence in both parties.

The Great Migration occurs and millions of Blacks go North where their voting rights opportunities are better for the most part

THe 27 Flood comes and Herbert Hoover who had organizational experience in these type of things takes control of the relief effort

The black community is not treated well, horrible relief camps, people hekd at gunpoint because farmers feared they would have no workers. This is before the great advances in Agricultural Machinary

The media is kept of of these but word leaks out to black leaders around the nation and to papers.

Hoover makes a deal that there will be significant reforms if he gets their support.

Hoover is perceived and actually did not keep these promisies thus causing a huge major rift between Balck leaders and those that owned the Black media.

That rift never healed and in fact got worse as time went by

Black leadership that felt cheated from Republican leadership in the past as Hoover as a the final nail in the Coffin started making alliance with Democrats up North. The Civil Rights movement and the Black leadership in the North was largely Democrat

The fact is that this vote like any ther vote would have naturally had gone some in the Democrat column. Blacks like every ones else back then had different ideas as to Foreign policy, economic policy, etc etc.

However, what happened in the the late 20′s turned out to be a something the Party never could recover from. It was the final seed of distrust that caused a rupture that did not heal and took on a force of its own and got rolling in the forces of history

Anyone with an ounce of common sense knows that the vast majority of hispanics are voting for democrats and that wasn’t going to change. Those of you that thought all these immigrants were going to be republican voters need to take off the rose colored glasses. That however wasn’t the point, the point is that there was no border security in this bill and that is why it has died…

Here is what I would do:
Build the wall, even militarize it. Its not to keep out workers, but to keep out terrorist and drug people. This is diametrically opposite to the Berlin Wall.
Create tamper proof IDs, enough to supply the needs of those companies that say they ‘need’ those workers, these would be of limited duration, but should have some sort of path to citizenship also.
Make them available in Mexico and in Canada, and issue them to anyone who passes a legitimate background check, and give preference to those that had been working in the US.
Enforce the ban on companies who hire illegal’s.
After six months jail, fine, and deport any illegal’s picked up, this would give some time for those here to get their IDs.
Don’t go after everyone, just those picked up, kind of like the highway patrol picks up speeders. They don’t try to catch everyone, just those they see. Anyone picked up for a crime would serve their time for the crime, plus the jail, fine and deportation of any other illegal found.
Any official not complying with the law would be fined and send to jail on felony charges also.