Aug 30 2007
The Downfall of a Great Politician
Thank you AJStrata for posting on this. I decided to wait a day or two and cool down so that I did not sound like a ranting lunatic. I was Senator Larry Craig’s high school intern in the spring of 2003. Senator Craig takes every intern out to lunch (no do not twist my words. He takes a group of interns, but every intern has the chance to go). At this lunch he will answer any questions you can ask. During my time in his office I realized that I wanted to be a politician like Craig. He serves his state and his people, not his own agenda. He worked his way up through the ranks rather than just buying in. I’m proud that I was able to work with him, even if it was for a short period of time. And I completely support him.
Now for the “scandal.” If anyone had bothered to read the arrest report or to do some research on the issue there are a few things that you would have discovered. First of all, Craig was arrested for indecent conduct. Now supposedly he was waiting outside of the stall the police officer was in and kept looking in periodically. Well, when I really need to go to the bathroom I will occasionally peek in to make sure the stall is actually occupied and to maybe give the person a hint to hurry up. He then went into the stall that had opened up, which happened to be right next to the undercover cop. Since the cop was in the stall he had no idea whether or not Craig had purposely waited for that stall or whether that was the only stall open. He then put his luggage up against the stall door from the inside. Apparently putting your luggage up against the door is a sign that you want to participate in indecent behavior. Oh yeah, I forgot the normal place to put your luggage is in front of the toilet and then to try to climb over it. Yeah, oops. The stalls are so small, where else are you suppose to put your luggage if not in front of the door? Especially since you cannot leave it sitting in the corner of the bathroom, cause then it would be considered a bomb. So I reiterate, I did not realize that the message you were sending when having your luggage with you was “I want SEX!!”
What most people have not heard is the information about the rumors. Since Craig was in college, in the 1960s, people have been trying to spread rumors that he has gay trysts. So his family has had to deal with these rumors for over 40 years. So, no wonder he did not make a big deal out of the incident. He just tried to make it quietly go away. And AJ has a point, why are the Republicans going after him? What occured was a personal incident. He did not lie about the incident he just did not scream about it from the rooftops.
I was Chairman of the College Republicans at my school for two years. I have helped many Republicans get elected. But anyone who is going to condemn a guy for trying to keep his personal life quiet and away from his public life will no longer receive my support, no matter what party you are affilitated with. This is ridiculous. They are throwing away one of the few politicians who is actually in the Capital to serve his constituents. I hope that people soon realize that the media is out for their own agenda and they do not care who gets hurt. This society has become despicable for letting the media dictate our lives. What happened to the people and making our own decisions?
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“Since Craig was in college, in the 1960s, people have been trying to spread rumors that he has gay trysts. So his family has had to deal with these rumors for over 40 years. ”
Hmmmm, that’s funny, ever wonder WHY?
Because, he’s a closet homosexual, that much is OBVIOUS!
Look at this story with blinders on if you want to, but I KNOW better!
He is a liar!
He is a hypocrite!
Now, as to whether he should resign, that’s up to him, and the voters of Idaho.
But don’t try to put lipstick on a pig, and tell me it’s Angelina Jolie; I KNOW better!
There’s something else about this. Without knowing more, I’d be reluctant to defend Senator Craig. There’s this trouble with the arresting officer, though.
…and, just for the record, I could give a darn if he is, or isn’t a “homosexual”!
I’ve had cousins, and brother-in-laws, and highschool friends, and college friends, and professional colleagues who were “gay” or “homosexual” or “queer” or whatever they’re calling themselves these days.
I DON’T GIVE A DAMN!
I just despise the hypocrasy of saying one thing, and doing another; and I despise the whole anonymous-sex-in-public-bathrooms that George Michael of “Wham” says is “queer culture, so leave me alone..”
It’s seedy, it’s tawdry, it’s classless, it’s also dangerous, it’s filthy, and it’s intrusive on people who use the public restrooms, that do not which themselves, and their kids to be exposed to that type of thing.
Spend $30 and get a darn room, for gosh sakes!
The let some guy jackhammer your duodenum into submission, I don’t care!
Let some guy’s glands play punching bag with your uvula; power to you!
But get a darn room, for gosh sakes!
BREAKING NEWS!!!
Soothsayer and DaleinAtlanta agree on something!!
I just despise the hypocrasy[sic] of saying one thing, and doing another;
Indeed, Dale, it is the hypocrisy. Larry Craig votes against gay rights, he votes against gay marriage, he votes against civil unions.
Personally, I don’t see why any gay person wants to be “married” – and with the exception of health or employment benefits, two people who want to be “partners” can do so contractually. In any case, I DON’T CARE WHO ANYONE SLEEPS WITH as long as they are over the age of consent and do so consensually. What I can’t stand is hypocrites like Larry Craig gay-bashing and voting against gay rights, and then sneaking off to restrooms for clandestine transitory sexual escapades.
And if the little Junior Republican above thinks Larry Craig is a “great politician” he’s sadly mistaken. Larry is a great liar and a great hypocrite. And that’s about it from here.
hypoCRASSy is actually how I meant to spell it!
….and actually, we’re all assuming that Craig is “gay” or “homosexual”; that’s always implied when something comes up with one of these Republican’s caught playing for the other team.
In fact, most of them are married, and have children; and in Craig’s case, grandchildren!
By my definition, someone having sex with both men and women at the same time, is Bisexual, not “homosexual”.
All of these arguments you two are making would make sense if he was actually gay.
Oh and by the way. I’m not a junior Republican and I’m not a guy. Wow, see how much you assume and how wrong you really are
Crzy: if you rumors of Craig being “gay” have been chasing him since college, and you still insist he is not, then it doesn’t matter if you’re a Republican or not, a woman or a man, but one thing you definitely are, is NAIVE!
Jeez I can’t type today: let me try again…
Crzy: if as you say, rumors of Craig being “gay”….
Now this is a time we will all look back at and laugh. It’s when republicans come out with a defense for a convicted criminal who quite likely tried to shag a cop in a bathroom. No, it doesn’t matter if Craig is gay. And it doesn’t even matter so much that he’s a convicted criminal, as he pleaded guilty and paid his fine. What matters is this:
(apologies for copying it from another of your threads where your cohort AJ is mounting an equally unsuccessful defense)
“Knowing Governor Mitt Romney is knowing someone who, first and foremost, has very strong family values. That is something I grew up with and believe in.”
-Larry Craig
Now, given that Craig claims that Romney (a presidential candidate) shares his values, and given that Craig’s values include having anonymous sex in public, this comment by Craig is very interesting. Sure, you don’t care, simply because it makes a republican look bad, but that’s why you’re a partisan hack rather than a real thinking American. Those of us who are incensed by staggering hypocrisy by our elected officials, regardless of their party (be it William Jefferson’s $90k in the freezer, Mark Foley’s oh-so-disgusted rhetoric against Clinton in the 90s, or David Vitter’s style of legislating morality while gratifying himself) find this kind of story certainly to be worth knowing about.
You don’t, I understand. But rather than struggle through redefining language or floating crazy legal theories, why not just disclose the fact that you want to defend Craig because he’s a republican? Sometimes, even in politics, you’ll still find that honesty is the best policy.
Thank you Crzy4. You’re very kind and generous to publish a defense of Mr. Craig. This episode will be a hard lesson for you… since it has very little to do with truth and everything to do with the art of the smear, malicious, cut throat politics, and olympic level hypocrisy emanating from every quarter.
After reading the entire 3,700 word Statesman article, the strategy became clear. Craig’s enemies are counting on few people reading it… while every pundit & jerk with a microphone repeats the 4 or 5 rumor and gossip-filled paragraphs quoting a few small minded people frightened by Craig’s slightly eccentric speech patterns and his love of music & singing.
There are a couple of totally unsubstantiated accusations made by nasty gay commandos on a mission — btw, I’m looking forward to the 3,700 word biopic on Boy Blogger & his “sources” who have made careers out of character assassination. I highly recommend reading the entire article because you’ll discover the crack investigators had to sift through a lot of high praise and accolades over a 30+ year career to cull out a handful of carefully crafted innuendo. If you ask me, the article in full accrues heavily to Craig’s favor. But the mundane & ordinary details don’t rise to the top or serve the underlying agenda.
All of that said, Larry Craig cooked his own goose when he pleaded guilty to the charges in Minneapolis. There is no going back on that one, or spinning it to an advantage. He’s been got. And he handed his enemies the sword to do the deed. But I am not confused in the least about what has taken place. In this instance, the fact that he and his family have been hounded for decades hopefully will help them cope and deal with their future.
Dale, just a friendly advisory. Did you know exclamation points are on the Gay metrics chart? Yeah! Right up there with show tunes and poodles.
let his constituents decide. period.
Thank you satrist
Crzy4politks,
Thank you for posting the article. I too think let his constituents decide. MSNBC has a transcript of audio of the arrest, and the officer involved seems like he was showing some bias. Why Craig pled guilty I do not know but the report written by the officer was pathetic and showed no criminal activity. Macranger at Macsmind thinks a review of the officers past arrest patterns should be reviewed. Iagree. As far as Dale and Soothsayer are concerned, do not worry about either of them because from my past observations here, neither reflect the majority of posters.
ROONENT1 said:
“Why Craig pled guilty I do not know”
Um, well, why do you think he pleaded guilty? Isn’t it at all possible he pleaded guilty because he was, well, guilty? Naaah, couldn’t be!
ROONENT1 said:
“Macranger at Macsmind thinks a review of the officers past arrest patterns should be reviewed. Iagree.”
Okay then. So, for any convicted criminal who pleaded guilty, he/she can now claim that they really didn’t mean to plead guilty, and you will demand that the arresting officer’s past arrest patterns need to be reviewed? Does that work for everyone, or just republicans? If you mean this to be a blanket policy, please explain how that should work? Should we set up a new govt bureau for guilty pleaders who have changed their mind?
Also, I’m curious, how does this play in to the oft-repeated republican myth about being tough on crime? It seems you need to decide one or the other here.
Oh please, if this guy was a Democrat the cop would be forced to apologize to him. What a bunch of hypocrites. Barney Frank’s boyfriend gets caught running a sex service and it is just ok fine, but this poor slob gets into this sorry situation and listen to the likes of Paul here yammering away as if he had the slightest idea what he was talking about.
And by the way, how many people have just paid a fine to make something go away? A lot have, especially if they do not want to make an issue of it. At any rate, the whole thing is silly.
Thank you Terrye. I agree.
Terrye said:
“What a bunch of hypocrites. Barney Frank’s boyfriend gets caught running a sex service and it is just ok fine, but this poor slob gets into this sorry situation and listen to the likes of Paul here yammering away as if he had the slightest idea what he was talking about.”
There are many differences between you and I, Terrye, and one of them is this: I take issue with hypocrisy on either side of the aisle, not just one side. I don’t support Barney Frank, and I don’t support Larry Craig. You, on the other hand, you support Craig because he’s a republican, regardless of what a hypocrite he is. You’re fine with an anti-gay marriage “family values” republican being a toilet trader, and don’t see any problem with the radical mis-match between his rhetoric and behavior. I expect that kind of personal hypocrisy is essential to being a republican, no?
As I mentioned above (and will copy here), my issue with Craig is this:
“Knowing Governor Mitt Romney is knowing someone who, first and foremost, has very strong family values. That is something I grew up with and believe in.”
-Larry Craig
Now, given that Craig claims that Romney (a presidential candidate) shares his values, and given that Craig’s values include having anonymous sex in public restrooms, this comment by Craig is very interesting. Sure, you don’t care, simply because it makes a republican look bad, but that’s why you’re a partisan hack rather than a real thinking American. Those of us who are incensed by staggering hypocrisy by our elected officials, regardless of their party (be it William Jefferson’s $90k in the freezer, Mark Foley’s oh-so-disgusted rhetoric against Clinton in the 90s, or David Vitter’s style of legislating morality while gratifying himself) find this kind of story certainly to be worth knowing about.
You don’t, I understand. But rather than struggle through redefining language or floating crazy legal theories (or in your case, yammering about Barney Frank, as if he were in any way relevant to this), why not just disclose the fact that you want to defend Craig because he’s a republican? Sometimes, even in politics, you’ll still find that honesty is the best policy.
Paulpsd I find it very interesting that the only argument you have is that we support Craig because he is a Republican. Very interesting assumption. Does it work the other way? You only hate Craig cause he is a Republican. And Clinton never did anything wrong. He was the best president ever. The problem with our society is the way they group people together and stereotype. Good Job!! Way to drink the Kool Aid
Crzy4politks said, in a sad flailing attempt to redeem himself:
“Does it work the other way?”
No, it doesn’t.
Crzy4politks went on to say:
“You only hate Craig cause he is a Republican. And Clinton never did anything wrong. He was the best president ever. The problem with our society is the way they group people together and stereotype. Good Job!! Way to drink the Kool Aid”
And your proof of this is…what exactly, other than your desire to paint me with the same hypocrite brush that I’ve already painted you?
Well, here’s the problem with that. I’ve already pointed out my disgust at the hypocrisy of politicians on either side of the fence, and mentioned William Jefferson. As far as the rest of your comments, you clearly pulled them out of your ass.
Crzy, I’m here to tell you, making baseless assertions about me as a means of recovering your own lost self-respect is a non-starter.
But, at least we got this far: at least you’ve admitted (at least tacitly) that the reason you’re supporting Craig is simply because he’s a republican. There, doesn’t it feel better to have that out in the open? Enough with the silly legal mumbo-jumbo, just say it! “Republicans have a much lower standard of behavior than Democrats.”
Poor Crzy4politks said:
“Paulpsd I find it very interesting that the only argument you have is that we support Craig because he is a Republican.”
I find it more interesting that your reading comprehension is such that you only managed to glean that one point. I made others.
In this thread:
http://strata-sphere.com/blog/index.php/archives/4338
I pointed out that contrary to the post’s title, Craig is not in fact innocent. He pleaded guilty, which, you know, is kinda the opposite of innocent. But of course, you know that because you’re in pre-law (a dubious claim if ever there was one, but let’s accept it). One day you’ll learn even more, like what “nolo contendere” means.
I pointed out that, in many cases, republican “family values” type candidates are wallowing in hypocrisy, not unlike yourself.
And finally, in this thread we’re on now, I’ve got another point to make. I have no issue with the title of this thread: to republicans nowadays, I accept that convicted toilet traders are about the closest thing they’ve got to “great politicians.” I’m so sorry your “great politician” “went down.” But hey, Manuel Noriega is getting out of prison soon, and he was a great partner of republicans in the past.
Evidently from the cyclist’s story this is an out of control cop. And since the whole scene is about as ridiculous as Craig’s why would anyone think any differently. The thing is unless you live in Idaho you have no opinion on whether Craig runs for reelection and even then you have only vote. These sanctimonious hypocrits make me sick. It really doesn’t sound like he actually propositioned the cop at all. The cop just decided his actions were questionable. I am wondering how the cop could charge Craig on such a flimsy basis and get away with it.
Evidently from the cyclist’s story this is an out of control cop.
Who is “the cyclist” and what evidence did he/she provide to draw you to that conclusion?
I am wondering how the cop could charge Craig on such a flimsy basis and get away with it.
Okay, then consider this. If an “out of control cop” wrongfully accused you of being a toilet trader, and his case was “flimsy” as you believe this case is, would you plead guilty?
He Said, He Said…Craig Audio and Transcript…
Everyone has been wagging their tongues about Larry Craig and Republicans on the Hill have been calling for his resignation for the guilty plea on a misdemeanor charge of disorderly conduct.
The Minneapolis-St. Paul Airport Police Dept. has released th…
Dale, just a friendly advisory. Did you know exclamation points are on the Gay metrics chart? Yeah! Right up there with show tunes and poodles.
Left by SallyVee on August 30th, 2007
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Damn, you GOT me!
I admit it, I’m GAY!
I also resign, as I should, because I’m a lying, hypocrite, who seeks anonymous dangerous sex with men in filthy public restrooms, while I’m married with a wife and grandchildren, and I vote against gay rights, and discuss my committment to family values!
See, it’s not so hard to do the correct thing now, is it?
Who is “the cyclist” and what evidence did he/she provide to draw you to that conclusion?
This only proves you have not kept up with this story and just jumped in to trash a republican. What an opportunity for you.
This only proves you have not kept up with this story and just jumped in to trash a republican. What an opportunity for you.
That’s a fine dodge. Since you weren’t forthcoming, I did a search for “Larry Craig cyclist,” and the best I could find were some comments attached to a blog, alleging that a “cyclist” (unnamed) was arrested, tazed and beaten by “Minneapolis Airport cops.” No links to any actual news stories about this, just generally vague comments about “the cyclist” such as you have provided.
I understand your desire to believe it was the cops’ fault. I assume your ability to believe this story is based largely on faith that no republican could ever be a toilet trader. However, if you want other people to also believe this story, perhaps you can provide a bit more detail. Is there actually a verified story about this? If so, can you point me to it?
I’ll say it once again. I don’t give a damn if Craig is gay. I don’t give a damn if he actualy solicited the policeman. I don’t give a damn if he is a republican. And I don’t give a damn if he is a senator. The fact of the matter is that the charges were flimsy and I resent that there are policemen who are allowed to get away with charging or accosting a private citizen with a no basis just opinion with nothing to back it up. I resent the fact that some people think gays are second class citizens who are not entitled to the same rights as other citizens. And before you jump to your usual conclusions I am not gay and never have been. I just believe in equal justice for all and Craig did not get equal justice.
I just believe in equal justice for all and Craig did not get equal justice.
How did he not get equal justice? Was he not confronted with charges, asked for a plea with the understanding that if he pleaded innocent, he would be provided a fair trail? Is there something else he should have received in order to provide equal justice? I mean, it’s not like he was put into a navy brig for 3 years and tortured, was he?
The record shows that, despite his claim to the contrary, Craig consulted his attorney, and put that attorney in touch with the authorities in Minneapolis prior to submitting his plea. In the 2 months between his arrest and his plea, he had ample time to consider consequences. Had he truly been innocent, then at the very least he would have pleaded nolo contendere rather than declare himself guilty.
So, I’m sorry, I see no evidence that Craig received a worse standard of justice than anyone else in this country.
And also, Barbara, I notice you were unable to substantiate your claim about the cyclist. Duly noted.
But of course, I’m sure this has nothing to do with the fact that Craig is a republican. I assume that, for everyone who gets arrested and pleads guilty, you come out with a claim that it was the cops’ fault for being out of control, right?
Craig voluntarily pled guilty. How is that not equal justice?? Is Babs on the crack again???
And also, Barbara, I notice you were unable to substantiate your claim about the cyclist. Duly noted.
Not unable, just not inclined. You can duly note whatever you want to. I don’t give a damn about that either, oh, troll of many names.