Aug 30 2007
Get the Facts Straight
Ok. So we still have some ignorant people trying to post comments. Heads up! Once again, if you had taken the time to read the arrest report you would find that the Larry Craig was charged with a misdemeanor and a gross misdemeanor. Neither of those equal felony. So CRAIG IS NOT A FELON
So rather than an admitted felon, Mr. Craig is an admitted criminal . . . N’est ce pas?
sooth:
You sound positively homophobic. I think that the whole thing is stupid. Foot tapping etc.
BTW, I am not a Republican either but after years of listening to self righteous sanctimonious liberals yammer on about how those bad conservatives should just learn how to stay out of other people’s sex lives this whole thing is really amazing. I expect a lynch mob any minute.
I was pulled over speeding once and even though I did not think I was going as fast as the cop said I was I paid the fine rather than take a day off work and fight it in court. After all, it was my word against his and it was easier to just pay the fine.
That does not make me a serial killer.
And no one was having sex here. How did the frothing at the mouth crew manage to turn this bathroom into a San Francisco bath house?
Homophobic? What are you smoking? I don’t care who or what Mr. Craig romances . . . but the fact is, he pleaded guilty to a criminal charge . . . ergo . . . he IS a criminal.
As for blaming sanctimonious liberals . . . you think the undercover cop is a LIBERAL?? Mr. Craig is the one who rants and raves about family values, votes against gay rights, and then wiggles his fingers into the next stall and plays footsie with the undercover cop.
Skin crawl, Dude, the guy is a creep.
I paid the fine rather than take a day off work and fight it in court. After all, it was my word against his and it was easier to just pay the fine.
Yep. A very common thing for regular folks. I am not saying that this is what happened here but it makes as much sense (considering he was fighting the rum0rs for years). I do NOT consider a Senator as ‘common folk’ but I do sometimes wonder if Edwards might have something with his Two Americas when I read some of the comments. It’s as if some really do not understand what you said about just shutting up and paying up in the real world.
Ever paid a speeding ticket Sooth? That equals admitting guilt and being a criminal.
sooth:
Yes you do sound homophobic. For one thing, exactly what is the crime? Criminal charge?? Like being a litterbug is akin to mass murder or something? Is a traffic violation a criminal charge. If I go over the speed limit or fail to put on my seat belt am I Ted Bundy?
The whole thing is absurd, foot tapping. Nobody even touched anybody or said anything to anybody.
There are real criminals out there killing people, raping people, robbing people etc and here we are talking about Craig with his criminal foot tapping. silly.
Speaking of skin crawling what about all those women who swore Bill Clinton groped them? Is that cool or something?
Terrye, defending Craig is making you do contortions.
“Like being a litterbug is akin to mass murder or something?”
Well, if a politician made his career about going after the litterbugs, and then it turns out that he himself is a litterbug (and a particularly nasty one at that), then I’d say that raises the crime up a bit in terms of its significance. Mass murder, of course, was just your sad attempt at a strawman argument, so I’ll ignore that.
If I go over the speed limit or fail to put on my seat belt am I Ted Bundy?
No, you’re not Ted Bundy (enough with the strawman arguments already). What you are is a speeder. Which is fine. So am I. I’ve happily pleaded guilty to speeding, and if anyone asks me, I’m fine to tell them, “Yes, I have been caught speeding. I am okay with that.” Now, I have not made my career out of making life really hard for speeders. Moreover, I don’t think it’s such a bad crime.
However, Craig clearly agrees with me that being called a toilet trader is not easy to accept. Personally, if I were accused of that and if I didn’t do it, I would contest the charge. But that’s just me.
The whole thing is absurd, foot tapping. Nobody even touched anybody or said anything to anybody.
Wrong. Craig touched the cop’s foot, which as the cop knows, is the signal for toilet trading. Craig admitted to having done this, as you can hear in his audio testimony:
http://www.salon.com/ent/video_dog/politics/2007/08/30/craig_police/
No, nobody said anything to anybody. That’s not how toilet trading works.
There are real criminals out there killing people, raping people, robbing people etc and here we are talking about Craig with his criminal foot tapping.
I take it you either don’t have kids, or your partisan hackery trumps your desire to protect them. Either way, you should know that some of us would not want our kids (or even ourselves) walking into a public restroom to find two guys getting it on in a stall. Sorry, I’m not homophobic, but I don’t want to see that. That’s why our society has laws against that kind of thing (public heterosexual sex too). Don’t you think that law is worth enforcing? Or is it just worth enforcing when there are no republicans involved?
But, of course, this isn’t about enforcing any laws. That has already been done. Here’s what it’s about:
“Knowing Governor Mitt Romney is knowing someone who, first and foremost, has very strong family values. That is something I grew up with and believe in.â€
-Larry Craig
Now, given that Craig claims that Romney (a presidential candidate) shares his values, and given that Craig’s values include having anonymous sex in public, this comment by Craig is very interesting. Sure, you don’t care, simply because it makes a republican look bad, but that’s why you’re a partisan hack rather than a real thinking American. Those of us who are incensed by staggering hypocrisy by our elected officials, regardless of their party (be it William Jefferson’s $90k in the freezer, Mark Foley’s oh-so-disgusted rhetoric against Clinton in the 90s, or David Vitter’s style of legislating morality while gratifying himself) find this kind of story certainly to be worth knowing about.
You don’t, I understand. But rather than struggle through redefining language or floating crazy legal theories, why not just disclose the fact that you want to defend Craig because he’s a republican? Sometimes, even in politics, you’ll still find that honesty is the best policy.
Speaking of skin crawling what about all those women who swore Bill Clinton groped them? Is that cool or something?
I’m not sure how that relates to Craig’s toilet trading activities. Please elaborate.
Actually, let me help you out, as you’re only going to try and backpedal. Let’s look at what you wrote:
Speaking of skin crawling what about all those women who swore Bill Clinton groped them? Is that cool or something?
Now, here’s what you need to decide before you continue posting about this topic. Either you support this creepy kind of behavior, or you condemn it. If you condemn it in Clinton, then you certainly need to condemn it with Craig. The differences between Clinton and Craig in this regard are:
They’re both elected officials, married with kids. To Clinton’s credit, he didn’t campaign against lechy guys while being one himself, unlike Craig.
What Craig did is against the statutory law, whereas the groping that Clinton did could be considered a suing offense.
Craig admitted to his crime, whereas with Clinton it’s all supposition apart from a few cases. (However, I have little doubt that Clinton did those things.)
Let me tell you how I deal with these things. I believe, from what I’ve read and heard on the subject, that Clinton used his power as president to get laid. Pretty sleazy, no? Let’s join hands and condemn him for that sleazy act (or series of them).
Okay, so now for Craig. He sat in a stall, tapped his feet, and eventually rubbed his foot up against the guy in the next stall. Then he rubbed his hand along the bottom of the stall. This is text-book toilet trader activity. Also pretty sleazy, right? Let’s join hands and…wait. You want to defend him? It’s no big deal, you say? We’re all homophobic for even finding it interesting that a GOP “family values” crusader is in fact a toilet trader? O…kay. I see you lack integrity.
See how that works?
Paul:
What a hateful little person you are.
My point about Clinton was in response to sooth’s assanine comment about skin crawling. A lot of things are skin crawling. Such as the intense, avid, over the top bug eyed glee with which the left has reacted to this.
Do you have one hand in your pants and the other on the key board? I ask because you seem to be getting awful worked up.
BTW Paul, I am not a Republican.
TERRYE said:
“What a hateful little person you are.”
He/she also said:
“Do you have one hand in your pants and the other on the key board? I ask because you seem to be getting awful worked up.”
I’ll let those two comments provide their own response. I never insulted you, but somehow I’m hateful and little, whereas I take it you’re loving and big. You can keep that standard of behavior for yourself. But I can address this point:
“Such as the intense, avid, over the top bug eyed glee with which the left has reacted to this.”
I’ll tell you about the glee we feel over this story. See, the republican crusade to legislate private behavior was always ill conceived. Not unlike the rule that priests can’t be married. In the end, human nature wins out against dogma, and you see what we get, with both the republicans and the priests. The more republicans get outed as toilet traders, pedophiles, adulterers, fornicators, etc, the sooner this whole “let’s legislate the behavior of consenting adults” nonsense will be discredited.
But none of this obscured the fact that you are unable to condemn Craig’s behavior, or even face the facts of it as are self-evident in the audio recording of his interrogation. If you’re not a republican, you’re doing a damn fine imitation. Besides, while I can certainly understand the plight of rats on sinking ships, before you jump overboard, you might want to change the link to your blog, on which you drool over Fred Thompson. That makes your “I’m not a republican” much like your fellow republican’s “I’m not a crook” statement.
What private crusade you idiot? I know Democrats rank and file who would think that gays are perverts. Are you really so brainwashed that you believe there is some plot to regulate your private behavior?
Well, if you feel that way then you should demand that these kinds of sting operations be brought to an end, after all whose business is it anyway?
So you want me to condemn Craig’s behavior? Fine I condemn him for tapping his foot and waving his fingers. Bad boy.
And I am not a Republican, I am an Independent. I was a Democrat for years but the loons on the left got to be too much for me. Ran me out of my own party.
How does Aj attract these people? Are they all soothie? Can’t be that many of them.
I think there is no question that Craig was soliciting sex in the men’s room. Why do I say that? because I have been in public restrooms in places like shopping malls, department stores, etc, anywhere where they don’t get a lot of traffic, where they WRITE THE INTRUCTIONS ON THE WALL!!!! Nobody has addressed this yet, but I would be willing to bet that the walls in that stall were covered with “gayfitti”. Gayfitti is the drawings of sex acts on the stall wall and writings such as, “meet me here at 11 for bj, tap foot five times” “Touch bottom of wall for bj”. This stuff has always angered me toward homosexuals because it is so disgustng. How could anyone have sex with someone they never even spoke a word to? The only requirement was that the other party was also willing. George Micheal ring a bell? That is so sick. The first time I encountered gayfitti was in the heads on the USS Midway. They even went to the point of cutting holes in the wall between the stalls! It didn’t take long for me to figure out that there were some heads on the ship that were gay hangouts and some weren’t. It made me think that either there were a heck of a lot more homosexuals in the Navy than I thought or that the few were extremely bold and active. So while I hate that homosexuals do this, I have to take a hard look at myself, I have had sex in a church during a wedding, a hospital emergency room, a K-Mart, and on top of the Pere Marquette Lighthouse in Lake Michigan in the middle of January. I’m sure we have all had similar experiences. C’mon now, don’t lie. So maybe I’m not one to talk, but I don’t find either one of those things as disgusting as hooking up with the next body who walks in the door of a urine smelling room. what is that bathroom thing with gay men???? I just don’t understand it.
Even if what Craig is accused of is true, and I think it probably is, what is the real offense here? He made a pass at someone. THATS IT! He made a pass at another man and not being responded to, he walked away. HMMMMM? Am I wrong here? Now while I will admit that it really pisses me off when I go into a public bathroom and encounter some fruitcake trying to make eye contact with some twisted sort of smile, it makes me want to kick his f**cking fruitcake ass because I have seen this before. GAY MEN CRUISE PUBLIC RESTROOMS! I am sure that most adult men know this. I have learned to just do my business and get out of there quickly before I get arrested for assault because the fact is, that this is just a case of another man making a pass at you. If I could go into womens restrooms, I might come off as some kind of freak too.
The only reason that I’m not for Larry Craig resigning, is that if he were a democrat, it would not even a topic of discussion. Nancy Pelosi makes special deals on the minimum wage laws that benefit the Samoan companys in her pocket, Harry Reid is up to his grey hair in corrupt land deals in Las Vegas, Diane Fienstien is cutting out pork to benefit her husbands company, William Jefferson is caught with $90,000 bribe money in his freezer, Gary Stubbs admits to having sex with a 16 year old page while in Europe and is re-elected six times, Barney Frank’s boyfriend is running a male whorehouse out of his basement, the Clintons are up to their teeth in campaign money coming from dubvious chinese sources since 1992 while the chinese mysteriously seem to obtain secret technology from us, Bill Clinton is accused of making passes at multiple employees of his state and the White House and raping one campaign worker, and none of these things are considered important enough for a democrat to resign let along even investigating it to begin with! Bob Beckel keeps frothing at the mouth saying, “This is what the republicans get for constantly preaching family values! Because that makes them hypocrites.” Well lets think about that for a second, you can be a homosexual and still be against gay marriage, you can be a homosexual and still believe that the best situation for a child to grow up in is with a mother and a father. Is Beckel inferring that only perfect people can expouse the virtues of trying to be a good moral example? Can people who have never had a drink in their life be the only ones to condemn alcoholism? How utterly assinine that is! None of us are perfect. We can only aspire to be the best we can, but just because we fail, and being humans, we will, doesn’t mean that we are hypocrites to push for good esthetic human values. The biggest hypocrisy here is on the left, who constantly tout homosexuality as being perfectly normal, yet will use it to destroy anyone who partakes in the lifestyle but does not jump on the queer activists political bandwagon.
What senator Craid did was disgusting, but in reality, it was the same as a parking ticket, a misdemeanor. Look at the things I outlined above and I think you would agree that almost all of those things are serious felonies. I think it is time for the republicans to say, I don’t give a damn what any republican congressman does, we are not going to ask for resignation short of treason. Because that is the standard the democrats use. Let me correct that, they don’t even use that standard, treason, as long as it is in the interest of the democratic party, is perfectly exceptable!
I agree with Ken. I too don’t care what he did there.
He didn’t behead anyone or seek to cause our defeat to those
who would.
I don’t care at all about the whole “family values” debate.
As long as he votes against the Democrats and to seek victory
in the Jihad Wars, that is good enough for me.
And for anyone who wants really strict morality (of a sort) imposed,
vote Dem and wait. Once the US surrenders to rule by the
Taleban or equivalent, you’ll get a chance to remember what
that sort of stuff is really about – and you won’t like it.
This is pathetic. If a person would listen to the tape instead of how the MSM sets up the tape……you will hear him trying to dispute the officer without Confronting him. This officer was doing his best to CREATE an altercation. The officer even say “people vote for you”.
And to understand the ‘why’ on Craig’s part for not fighting it? Foley. MSM. Fellow Congressmen. Rumors. He sure read it right but he should have fought it. Somebody has got to get their act together, grow some spines and stop these witch hunts conducted by the Dem’s MSM and the DNC.
Ah, BikerDude – just can’t help being a mite disingenuous:
Around these parts, they don’t put cuffs on you, take your mug shot, and record your bogus explanation of why you were two minutes over when they give you a parking ticket.
There are misdemeanors and misdemeanors, if you catch my drift. In many jurisdictions, gross sexual imposition is a misdemeanor, and in the Constitution, the president may be impeached for “high crimes and misdemeanors“.