Sep 01 2007
Newt’s Nonsense On Immigration
We all remember that the GOP torpedoed immigration reform, claiming the status quo was preferrable to strengthening our laws and making it easier to deport violent criminal immigrants. The crazy GOP claimed all we had to do was “enforce the laws” on the books now. I have shown many times why this is all a lie. A lie to voters and to GOP supporters. Newt Gingrich shows us once more why the GOP is as brain dead and misleading as the Democrats:
Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich said Tuesday he is “sickened” that President Bush and Congress went on vacation “while young Americans in our cities are massacred” by illegal immigrants.
Newt is either lying or going senile. Bush tried and tried and tried to fix the immigration laws with a broadly supported set of reforms. But it was the GOP, Newt’s GOP, that torpedoed the changes. And I said it then and I will say it now: all the damage, harm and death committed by immigrants who could have been deported expiditiously under the new policies of the bill stopped by the GOP is the fault of the GOP – no one else. I knew they would try and do things like this, blame Bush for their actions (so typical of pols these days). But they cannot escape reality. The GOP let the currently broken system survive, so they are to blame for everything that sickens Newt:
Gingrich, who is considering a run for the White House, was referring to a recent crime in Newark, N.J., where three college students were murdered execution style in a school playground.
One of the suspects — Jose Lachira Carranza — is an illegal immigrant from Peru who was on bail on charges of raping a child when the murders occurred.
Gingrich said another suspect is an illegal immigrant from Nicaragua with a long record of arrests who was ordered deported in 1993 but never left.
All those who opposed El Presidente Jorge Bush are the ones who left these animals to roam free in our midst. I doubt they will ever acknowledge, let alone take resonsibility, for their mistakes and paranoia. But that is irrelevant. They lied to us and this is what we can look forward to for the next 3-5 years, which is who long it will be before we get another serious shot at immigration reform.
I am sickened that Newt Gingrich who did nothing at all about illegal immigration when he was launched his Contract with America would stoop to demagoguing the issue now.
Besides, they say they don’t want to do anything about the people here now, they just want to close the border. That is why enforcement only, only deals with part of the problem.
AJ and Terrye,
Yes.
The border- only folks, even if well intentioned, were engaging in one-dimensional thinking and ignoring the rest of the problem. And, Gingrich is engaging in patent demagoguery and has neither the ability nor the character to be president.
Seventy-five percent of Americans (including 66% of Democrats) don’t want any kind of so-called “immigration reform” that results in amnesty for illegals.
That’s a mandate so huge that it can only be ignored by people who live in a bubble.
Newt makes me sick. Everyone of them do when they decide to ‘play politics’ instead of addressing an issue with the truth. Make no mistake, Newt Gingrich is plenty smart enough to know the difference. Pure politics.
They have launched their new anti-Mex plan by copying the old MSM. I have been seeing it on a daily basis on O’Reilly. They name each crime they can find that involves an illegal and say “see there”. It will be very effective with the public. They make it seem as if it is something new and created by the President. It is shameful. It is a lie because as AJ correctly points out………they are the ones that INSIST that nothing be done. This is being lead by our very own newly elected MSM Pundits with these shameful politicians like Newt. I never heard a word from him when HE had the power.
Listen to Tinian above………they are so worried about “amnesty” for illegals that it rules their world. They just seem so mean and small spirited. It fits right into the sterotype of the Pug.
I still dare O’Reilly to put his ‘body language’ expert to giving us the dope on Malkin’s face on that last show she did with Tancredo. The real thing and VERY revealing.
Tinian,
I don’t believe your stats. Most Americans want a reasonable solution that would accomodate law abiding and productive immigrants already here.
A noisy minority have reduced the debate to buzz words and slogans and convinced themselves they have a mandate.
I despise Newt, but the truth does hurt, doesn’t it?
Dale,
It’s cherry picked truth. Supporters of real reform want to deport the criminal element. And it’s dishonest to imply that all illegal immigrants are violent criminals. We need a mechanism to differentiate.
Dear Mr. Strata,
I do agree with a great deal of your conception, as I often wonder what did Newt do to stop Illegal Immigration when he was the Speaker.
It was plain to see his vivid self serving opportunism, when he posed with Hillary for that photo-op. Newt advocated for the essential use of force to remove Saddam and bring a needed intervention to the troubled Arab Region. Then he conveniently tossed those bravely implementing the policy he wanted under a bus, shouting ‘mistakes’ everywhere, ignoring the context of the difficulty of the worthy mission involved.
It is truly ugly, but we see many on the Conservative side more interested in vilifying those serving their interests in the best possible manner. They are actually enabling the deeply misguided Democrat Liberal Folly.
I feel you might wish to reconsider using the term ‘GOP’ for this movement that embraces the most extreme vitriol, which debased the attempts to reform illegal immigration. This movement seems bizarrely linked to some who foolishly embrace Ron Paul, isolationism, protectionism, conspiracies of a North American Union, etc. It isn’t truly represented by the GOP Majority, but by a very jaded Conservative fashion. An extreme group, being encouraged by a few misguided Conservative Celebs.
The larger picture is being missed.
The Election of 2008 is essential.
And Hillary Clinton wants to take things away from us…
And some actually feel helping this Nation, would be boycotting the vote yet again.
It makes absolutely no sense at all.
The 160 (out of 200) workers rounded up at a chicken plant in the mid-west (not some border town with mexico). Most of them had stolen the identities, ss number, etc., of legal citizens. If you’ve ever been through that, you know what it’s like to try and get your life back.
It’s a complete lie to say that unless we change the immigration laws..we cannot arrest people and deport people who are here illegally. We most certainly can…AND use discretion and compassion at the same time we are doing it.
The huge bust at the chicken plant was not to harrass some poor hard-working “Immigrants”. It was because they had a very large identitiy theft ring that was supplying that plant with illegals as well as devestating a lot of other “hard working” americans by ruining their good name, credit, and putting them through hell stealing their identities, ss numbers, etc..
These laws have always been there…if they have not been as some surmise..then what exactly what legal basis are they using “today” to round up and deport illegals with? btw…Bush gave his blessings to these operations.
Dc:
The point is that unless we change some of these laws these folks are going to go on hiring people because often as not they have no way of knowing when someone’s ID is a fraud.
That chicken plant was what? 160 people? There are supposedly 11 million undocumented people in this country. Think about that.
Tinian:
Two thirds of the people in the US support some sort of legalization for some of the people here now. They also support a guest worker program.
Dale:
What is truthful about it? For one thing no one is telling anyone not to arrest criminals, for another it is pure exploitation. It is no different than the anti war people who use the deaths of soldiers to attack the war on Terror.
Back in 1998 when Newt was busy going after Bill Clinton that railroad killer who was a Mexican national was killing people. Newt did not make it an issue. What is the difference? We have something called Miranda rights because cops failed to make sure someone who did not understand the language was aware of his rights.
It is not as if nothing like what Newt is yammering about here never happened before Bush came along.
I get the distinct impression that Malkin and her kind think that if Al Gore was president there would not be one single illegal in the country.
These people do not need political enemies, they have each other and they have done a lot of damage to their party. Sooner or later they are going to have to admit that this century old problem is a tad more complicated than they have lead people to believe it is.
But then again when these guys get complicated they tend to go off the deep end and start carrying on about the North American Union and other conspiracy theories.
Actually doing what is necessary to solve the problem in a realistic and common sense fashion is not a priority with them.
Newt’s a loose cannon. When he got cut out of Rummy’s inner circle (a fascinating tale in which the surgeon correctly perceived a malignancy and acted accordingly), he reacted like a scorned woman. He’s in cahoots with Human Events, Heritage, and other purveyors of gloom, doom, waning white power, and funny numbers. He studied ‘Medi-scare’ (remember that?) and after decrying the methods, apparently decided to retool the strategy for a “good cause.”
Watch the ad at the link below… eerily similar in nature/tone and even the kitchen table setting of MediScare. It’s produced by Tanton’s outfit NumbersUSA — which I do not think Newt is overtly associated with. But sadly, I think the sentiment and the tactics are approved by Newt and a growing contingent of wingnuts in our midst.
See:
http://reformus.org/
Sally Vee:
They act as if every illegal is a mass murderer or something. Besides that while I think enforcement needs to be a priority it is naive to think that we can stop all these people. And they know it, they are using scare tactics to make political points.
Criminals don’t care about immigration laws. You can not stop all the really bad people from finding a way in here anymore than you can stop the American born gang bangers that infest so much of our inner cities or the drug dealers who operate virtually in the open out there.
And people like Newt know that. It is just a means to an end with them.
I want to deport every violent criminal. Yesterday. First…..I want to make their lives MISERABLE. Put them in jail and in a chain gang. Yep. I do not have one problem with punishment for any of them if they committed a violent crime…..deliberately.
But at this point, if it was not so serious a problem for all of us, I would just like to tell the Malkin world to “bring it on”. One of the things that keeps the real world going round is the highways. You go their way and they come to a stall. It is not a matter of finding a ‘worker’ nor ‘pay rate’. You can find the worker. You can pay them a small fortune. What you can NOT do is force the WORK in 100+ heat. Is this a slam on Americans? Not meant to be but just telling a little Truth to those that seem to want to always talk about truth.
Mexicans have been the major hard labor force in America for too long. We had plenty of poverty when they came but did not have laborers. That simple and will make many furious. Truth. They came and they worked. Now they still fill the hardest positions but they are well paid and some do need a little shaking up. Their children have developed ‘attitudes’ that resemble other kids. Imagine that. Lots of problems that took years to develop and need very complex solutions because they were not addressed……….by such as Newt.
The “point” is, until we start enforcing laws and punishing people who break them, everybody involved in the chain of events (employers, employees, etc) are going to look the other way and do what is easiest for them to do..REGARDLESS of what new laws you make or not and REGARDLESS even of what kind of issue you are talking about. That’s human nature (as in applies to everyone regardless of where you come from). If the “new” law says you can go x far now…and people believe that it will not be enforced….they will go XX far with it.
It’s telling that often is the case that nobody believes they have done anything wrong. They just want to work…so..stealing someones identity, ruining their credit and life for a while…is of no consequence—that’s just what you do if you want to work illegally. The business owners just want to make money, so looking the other way for cheap labor has it’s own rewards. Right now..they are arguing that they should have rights and/or not be prosecuted under these laws…”because” ..they were never enforced prior. In other words…..you looked the other way and let me do this for so long..I now have rights that protect me from you coming after me for doing it. This proves absolutely, that there always have been such laws..that were not enforced. And that it is the lack of enforcement that is the problem and WILL be the problem with any new laws that are passed. This is human nature with everything. This is exactly “why” enforcing the law is the primary concern. I can give you many examples of how this works if it’s still hard for you to understand.
Lets say you have a school zone and are concerned because people speed through it on their way to a major thruway and children get hit (already 2 deaths etc.). Lets say…despite those things…nothing has been done. There have not been new red lights, or traffic patterns, nor strict enforcment of speed limits.
Everybody finds it more convenient to speed through there given it’s proximity to a thruway and slowing down for that stretch by the school is completely out of the flow of things, and slows things down, creates traffic jams. The posted speed limit has always been 20mph…but people routinely (for years) drive 55 through it. So, your solution to that..given nobody is writting tickets..nor stopping people..nor punishing the drivers who speed through nor making any effort to because it benefits everyone (other than the few children who happen to attend those schools and are over run everyday with speeding vehicles)…is to pass a new law to raise the speed limit to 55mph?? so that the speeders are in compliance with the law?? AND sometime AFTER that..we’ll enforce that new speed limit??? You guys are smoking crack. And I can tell you for sure….whoever runs such a thing on a campaign is going to get cranked. (if that has not been made painfully obvious 2 times over)
Dc:
Who says we have not started enforcing the laws? You see this is what pisses me off about hardliners. They act as if every cop, every judge, every border agent out there is just standing around staring into space. No one is doing their jobs. etc.
We deport people every day. We stop people at the border everyday. It has nothing to do with just enforcing laws. That is so simplistic it is silly.
For instance, the law says everyone of those people gets a hearing. Do we have enough judges and detention centers for that? The law says you have to show that the employers knew the people were illegal, without a national ID or an improved system for verification can we do this with the present laws?
So your comparison does not work. The sheer numbers of people have overwhelmed the system.
Identity theft is not just some problem that exists because of illegal immigration, neither is drunk driving or drugs or anything else. Right now people on the right have decided to make these people responsible for almost every social ill out there. And then they act as if we can just wave a magic wand, enforce the laws just like that and they will go away and of course that will be all good, because it is not as if any of them serve a useful purpose anyway. Which is not true. I am not happy to say that, but the idea that you can just remove 11 million people from the economy without ill effects is ridiculous. 47% of the ag labor alone comes from migrant labor. Who will replace them?
If one of these anti GOP hardliners manages to win an election and comes face to face with the reality of running the country rather than just running his mouth…what will he do to actually change things?
What will they do that is not being done now. And do NOT say just enforce the laws. That is not a policy, it is a mantra. I mean concrete steps in the real physical world that will be different.
I am beginning to think that if you gave the hardliners the following choice:
a} effectively deal with the problem of illegal immigration.
b} keep the issue of illegal immigration around as a political issue
They would pick B.
Now Bush has signed the Fence Security Act. He has put more people on the border than any president in history. His administration has put a lot more resources into the problem than any other administration ever has. And yet the hardliners call him Jorge. There is no dealing with them on this issue. They are as unreasonable about this issue as the left is about the war.
I don’t know where you live Terrye, but when was the last time you heard about Federal raids on plants for illegal immigration rounding up a couple hundred people??
The arguments you guys were making before was that we needed to pass that abomination of legislation..because…it would give us the laws and means we needed TO do what they are doing RIGHT now without it!! The argument was..that we did not have laws to deal with these issues..that we could not deport people etc. It was a complete Bullshit argument and always has been. I would also point out..that what is being done “right now”..was NOT being done BEFORE.
The laws for dealing with “that” part of it..have always been there…they have simply not been enforced…like they ARE being now. And the reason they “are” being enforced is becuase of the backlash, strikethat, make that whiplash, the politicians got from their constituents over the abomination of an immigration bill they tried to ramrod through congress
btw, did you happen to see Bush’s new “immigration enforcement initiative” this morning??? Or did you miss it??
Actually I live not too far from Washington Indiana where there is a plant like that. There are not enough locals who want to do the work, so people come in. Just like they have been coming for decades to pick the melons the locals do not want to pick. I think that eventually most of these places in the US will close and we will be importing more of our food.
And what makes you think that those laws were not being enforced and are now? Because you are hearing more about them?
We are talking about 11 million people and how many of them even work somewhere like that? How many work for small businesses, farms, restaurants, motel chains, or are self employed as plumbers, landscapers, nannies, maids, hairdressers and on and on?
People are not stupid. Back in the 90’s a lot of places started getting busted so late in the 90’s people began to find ways around some of the laws. They just made the fines part of their operating costs, they helped people get paper work etc. And so the government had to deal with all the things that people come up with to get around the law.
The fact that the hardliners chose to ignore those arrests does not mean they are not happening, it is just that now they are news. So I think your argument is faulty.
I am not saying that more does not need to be done, I am saying that without additional resources there is no way to deal with these numbers of people. And unless we have laws that are more difficult to get around people will continue to circumvent the laws.
And as long as half the illegals do not cross that border, just putting all the resources there will not be enough. And unless we can devise away to differentiate between laborers and criminals the kind of people Newt is bitching about will not go away either. After all, who would you rather see deported, the criminal or the guy working in the chicken plant?
Both I would guess, but I think the criminal should get priority and as long as there are all these people living here undocumented it is only going to make it that much easier for the really bad people to hide.
That is the only reason I ever supported any kind of IDs or Visas. We need to drain the swamp. We need to make it harder to hide.