Sep 08 2007
GOP Can’t Face The Truth About Immigration
There are many reasons Rudy Giuliani is going to win the GOP nomination and beat Hillary Clinton (or whoever he Democrat nominee is). His core strength is his toughness in hard situations – shown on 9-11 and the days afterward. He is also unapologetically tough on terrorism – no doubts here. But he is also bluntly honest with America. And this can be seen on how Rudy is telling it like it is on illegal immigration, to the consternation of the far right who still live in a fantasy world where everything is just fine without the needed changes we had in the comprehensive immigration bill they torpedoed this year. Of course they torpedoed this bill in a fit of panic that some folks here illegally for many years just might get permission to stay longer after paying retribution:
Republican presidential hopeful Rudy Giuliani said illegal immigration is not a crime, prompting rival Mitt Romney to accuse him of not taking the problem seriously.
…
“It’s not a crime,” Giuliani said Friday. “I know that’s very hard for people to understand, but it’s not a federal crime.”
Giuliani’s comments came in an interview with CNN Headline News and radio talk-show host Glenn Beck.
“I was U.S. attorney in the Southern district of New York,” he said. “So believe me, I know this. In fact, when you throw an immigrant out of the country, it’s not a criminal proceeding. It’s a civil proceeding.”
All the far right babbling cannot create federal law out of thin air. Giuliani is right, as I and many readers of this site have pointed out. Even Malkin and others posted about how the current laws were no good, before they realized the new laws were going in the opposite direction they wanted and then lied about how greate current laws were. There are none! How great can that be?
Rudy is honest and up front – Romney is trying to pander. The far right is not as big and influential as it thinks it is with the voters. They are loud in the media and get invites to DC and NY special events – but they cannot bring in the votes neede to win in this 50-50 nation. Rudy provides those (us) conservatives who are not ‘pure’ rightwingers an avenue to support conservative principles over liberal idiocy, without having to accept the far right idiocy. Which is why he will win – unless the far right sits home stewing again that they cannot rule this nation and let Clinton win.
We could see another poutfest on the right (which brought us the last President Clinton), but my feeling is the number of folks willing to risk this nation’s war on terror over immigration policies targetted towards those who have been in this country for years is quite small. I still think the GOP will come to its senses. Especially with Rudy in the lead. The GOP needs to get its act together and stop acting like liberals. Lying about what is the current problem on issues like immigration is not going to win converts. Face the truth openly and accept the democratically selected path forward – something one would think is the essence of being a patriotic American.
AJ,
“Rudy is honest and up front.” – This may be true, but it is not enough, if he is just honestly wrong. And he is wrong on enough issues to qualify him as a liberal Democrat.
Macker:
I don’t think that is true. I know a lot of conservative Republicans in Indiana who like and respect Rudy. They think he is a smart man who knows how to get things done.
Sometimes that is what people want the most in government.
And illegal immigration is not a federal crime, if the right wants to make it a federal crime then they will have to change the law and get to work taxing people to build all those federal prisons.
I read somewhere that the restaurant business in NYC would collapse without these people. In fact there was at least one illegal working at the restaurant in the WTC when it was attacked and he died there along with everyone else.
Too bad they can come up with a way to secure the border, deport and or jail the violent criminals, and put some of these folks on guest worker programs where their labor is really needed. I would rather see them legal and paying taxes than illegal and ignored and here.
Terrye,
I agree with much of what you say.
But,
Rudy supported “campaign finance reform”
Rudy supports “affirmative action”
Rudy supports gay unions of some sort
Rudy supports legalized abortion and embryo exploitation
Rudy’s lifestyle mocks family values
So,
Maybe his virtues are the exception. But I’m open to convincing.
Macker:
My lifestyle would probably not be up to snuff and the same could be said for almost everyone running, except McCain. Thompson also supported campaign finance and I myself consider this an almost non issue. I don’t lie awake at nights worrying about how much money people are going to be able to give politicians and I doubt if most other people do either. I know of no one outside the blogs and punditry who consider campaign finance to have anything to do with free speech.
I have no problem with civil unions etc and really do not think it is any of my business one way or the other.
I do not support an outright ban on abortion. I don’t like it, I don’t want to see kids getting abortions, but I think that Rudy’s attitudes on this are not “liberal”, they are in fact in line with what the majority of Americans feel.
Now I do understand and respect the position of ardent prolifers, but I think that most people fall somewhere in between. That is just the reality of it.
So I think that Rudy has a shot at winning because he more closely represents what most Americans think and feel and that is neither right or left.
Terrye,
Agree Rudy has a shot at winning, but would like to see the issues more sharply defined by all.
Not being exercised by campaign finance “reform” doesn’t make it a non-issue. It cleared the field for the George Soros type financing and that’s not a good thing.
I thought Bill Clinton’s “lifestyle” was an issue and a future president’s is. Since you are not a public figure, your’s is not. And to quote a recent president, “it depends on the meaning of the word-lifestyle.” LOL
“Civil unions” is more than a privacy issue. It is an issue of government sanction.
On the “life issues,” I agree with your assesment of the public’s outlook. But I thing responsible persuasion can change public opinion. And I don’t want federal financing of dehumanizing projects.
Apparently in this realm being a patriotic American is exemplified by offering a persistent diet of deceit. Suggesting that the anti-illegal immigration throng is something less than an overwhelming majority and made up exclusively of those on the far right is an abandonment of integrity. It’s amusing that virtually all of the mouthpieces for the open borders contingent think that they can hammer home a logically indefensible position with relentless hogwash. Politicians, with the incentive of corporate donations and a pipe dream of future votes, could not fool the well-informed American public. What causes anyone to think that third-rate journalism can? The salvo of slurs (xenophobia, racism, nativism, etc.) designed to prey on the American’s generous sense of fair play failed as the customary initial response from the egalitarian mindset. So, now it’s time to break out the obligatory strategy of incessant bamboozlement and falseness while stonewalling logical argumentation.
Dubya:
I really resent people saying that if I do not agree with a strict hardliner position I must be part of the open border contingent. That is a lie. A flat out lie.
Just because some people on the right insist on seeing everything in stark terms does not mean they are right and it certainly does not mean the rest of us have to look it at that way. They just make themselves sound like fanatics.
Rudy was talking about the law, not politics. Illegal entry is not a federal crime. The man would know, he was a prosecutor for years. He did not say it was not illegal.
And you know what? When I go on comment sections of blogs and am called a traitor and when I see people make comments about brown skinned Mex’s and greasers and wetbacks and people calling all hispanics criminals and drug dealers and diseased and all kinds of stuff and no one even bothers to challenge them…they should expect to be called racists.
When I see people say we should mow down the people at the border, including the women and kids etc and just in general act like a bunch of hate filled bigots do not be surprised at the reaction.
When Bush can take all this crap from Democrats just to take on the terrorists and then get called Jorge Bush because he supports the same immigration policy he supported when he won two elections do not be surprised if people think you are a loon.
Dubya,
The deceit just might be coming from the “it’s only a border problem” folks. Bush was hardly an “open borders” advocate and AJ et. al. here aren’t.
And sneering about corporate donations is an ignorant dismissal of the labor problems of American business and our country’s economic wellbeing.
Dubya,
I’ve seen references to the need to protect our “culture” and racial identity. So don’t complain about the xenophobia charge.
Macker:
A civil union is a partnership, it is not a sanction of anything.
And I think that if you asked people which concerns themselves the most, the amount of money spent on elections or whether or not some politician might be restricted in raising money…I think they are more concerned with the former.
I think it is useless to try and stop the money myself, but I do think that most Americans were supportive of campaign finance reform for the same reason they support getting rid of pork and limiting earmarks, they worry about the money and the corruption and buying of government.
I understand the freedom of speech argument, I just don’t think most people put together the right to raise money and freedom of speech. They just think the system is too much about money.
Macker is right and besides, in terms of corporate donations or whatever, it should be remembered, most of these people do not work for corporations at all.
It is so strange to listen to a guy on the right making noises like John Edwards.
My Senator Bayh said he thought the bipartisan immigration bill was too tough on immigrant families, he took the advice of the ACLU on immigration. Imagine what kind of plan he would support. If hardliners split the Republicans on this issue it is more likely that one of the really liberal plans will go through.
AJ,
I know we’ll never agree on the solution to the illegal immigration issue but I agree (and hope) that Rudy is the GOP nominee.
Everytime I see the GOP roll over and play dead I fervently wish the GOP will select someone who isn’t afraid of Schumer, Pelosi & Reid et al. Someone who is willing to call them on their blatant lies. I think Rudy is that person. Rudy and I share a lot of the same beliefs, i.e. I personally do not like abortion but I’m not so rigid that I think it should be forbidden to a woman who definitely needs it.
I hope Rudy will be more specific in telling “how” he will handle the illegal immigration issue, but I’ve seen enough of him to know that he is definitely aware of the opposition he will face if he tries to pull a fast one like Teddy, McCain, Graham et al did.
All I can do for now is hope Rudy is the nominee. I really hope McCain isn’t our nominee, but I’m not such a right-wing nutcase conservative that I would stay home on election day and let “herself” become our next president. As my Nana used to say “no sense cutting off your nose to spite your face”.
When I look at all the other candidates, that old TV commercial goes thru my head “wimpy, wimpy wimpy”. Rudy definitely is not a wimp!!
Dubya would call me an ‘open border’ advocate. That’s not even close to Truth. At the same time, I am 100% against the hate filled speech coming from the hard right. One thing Dubya said that is an absolute truth but seldom discussed is that the Left is more anti-Mex than even the Right. Yep. It didn’t just start. Has been there for many, many years. They purely hate them.
So why is this not common knowledge? MSM controlled by Dems. That simple. Public opinion is shaped by this megaforce and the dumbo Pugs just let it go forward and even give them helping hands. They are so busy getting pure, doncha know?
Had my first conversation (in a good while) concerning Bush/immigration/politics this morning with my good friend who came to this country as an illegal many years ago. For shame…..he worked extremely hard and has been an American citizen for many years now! It went something like this……He asks who is going to be our next President……I answer with probably Hillary. I say Bush has caught hell from one segment of our Party who seems determined to kill all our chances with their immigration issue. I ask if he understands this and he only halfway nods. So I ask if the Mex understand that the Bush is not their enemy and he only halfway nods that he does not know. Bull. This is the same as shouting at me that the Mex blame Bush and the Pugs. That simple. All this from someone that voted for Bush and understands that the Dems hate Mexs. The Mex have always been fed a diet of “Dems good/Pugs bad” by their own politicians and MSM but the people understood on a gut level that the good Dems did not LIKE them. Street knowledge.
Bush stayed true to himself on this issue exactly like I always will because you can NOT have a good friend and understand their problems and not have compassion. Does this mean I am for amnesty/open borders? Not even in your dreams. It means I watched a problem develop over 40 years without anyone lifting a finger, but the inhumane yakking I hear on the far Right makes me ill. It is a lie to label Bush an open border/amnesty advocate. Just as easy to label yourself a Racist/Bigot. How does it feel?
Now they are trying to paint Rudy into the same box. Go ahead and take your best shot. This is why I have supported Rudy 100% from the beginning………I don’t think think he will wake up one day with different opinions, regardless of what the world wants him to say. I do not have to agree with my President on all issues to have great respect for his opinions. Any man tough enough to clean up that mess called NYC is the right man, at the right time. He is another Bush……He is not a WIMP. As Bernie said ‘Crazies to the Left & Wimps to my Right’. I trust Rudy to be a mean street fighter.
Owl, you da man/woman/bird. Honestly, between you and A.J., I can’t add much to the conversation.
Rudy is our man too. But I lost some confidence in him back in August when he appeared on blondie’s radio show and did some tap dancing under extraordinarily rude & obnoxious (even for her) interrogation… and I was very disappointed that Rudy snubbed the 3 Hispanic events including the one tonight in Miami (at which only McCain will appear on the GOP side). Rudy’s remarks during the FoxNews debate and on Glenn Beck renewed my faith to some extent. Now that he’s stirred the pot, let’s see how Rudy handles the sh*t storm of condemnation that is coming his way from the imm-nuts. Fingers crossed that Rudy will show us the proper way to negotiate with thugs…
P.S. Here’s an article in today’s WaPo about the Hispanic/Univision event tonight:
http://tinyurl.com/36v5na
Okay Sally….try birdwoman.
Read your link and they nailed it when they said that Bush and Rove considered the Mex natural Pugs. From everything I know of their culture, they are. Much better fit than Dems but the way the Pugs handled this issue…….I believe it is LOST. Gone. Pffffftttt. A crying shame that will have an effect on all our futures. As I said above, my friend voted Bush because Bush was actually the first one to move that crowd. All gone for nada. They are here. They will vote. The pure stupidity of how it was handled should label the far Right as the Incompetents. The best damage control I could do was recommend Rudy. I still can not believe that a 2 bit Congressman and Bookwriter stirred up people to the point that they were willing to cut off their noses. It took them punching and prodding, jibbing and jabbing and appealing to the very worse in everyone’s nature for 6 years. They had to scare the politicians and the O’Reillys chitless. But hey……they won. I do not believe Pugs will ever receive another 30% vote and we can now add that segment to the Black vote against us…….forever. Poor Martinez. Wrong name.
I guess it could be worse……Tancredo could show up in FL. What are our candidates thinking by not showing…….that it will all go away? Good grief…..all the Dem angels show and a huge chunk of their base despise the Mex. How do the Dems get away with this crap? Oh, that’s right………they have Malkin and Tancredo as insurance policy.
LA spends over four Billion a year for services to illegal aliens in healthcare, schooling and welfare programs. By the way, if you hadn’t noticed, there are not near enough farms in LA county to support millions of people working in the fields. They are not doing that, they are living on welfare and working under the table in food service jobs, construction and yardwork. We just recently found out in San Diego this week that we are paying two and a half billion a year to support illegals for the same services. LA has six times the population that we have but very little tax base because so many people work under the table. Our city cannot afford to go on like this. We are already essentially bankrupt and have not even had our 2004 city audit published yet because City Hall doesn’t want us to know how bad it really is. Meanwhile, Filipe Calderon orates on how horribly the mexicans are being treated in the US. We are not respecting their rights. Everywhere where a mexican is is mexico. And now we have mexican trucks allowed to operate in the US. Have you folks ever been to mexico? Do you have any idea what mexican trucks are like? While the open borders crowd decries the North American Union as a bunch of whacko conspiratorial crap, they are implementing it one piece at a time. What a bunch of fools!
I have to add this, you are posting this crap on the eve of the very first SPANISH speaking debate for US democrat presidential candidates! Now keep trying to tell me how these people are not trying to push the spanish culture over the American English culture! Who are you trying to kid, me or yourself?!? That two language thing worked out real well for Canada didn’t it? Split the country right in two, now Quebec is ceding. Ob, but that will never happen here. MORONS!
Bikerken,
Dem crap doesn’t excuse rightwing crap or lies. truth hurts? Maybe the far right should not violate the trust of voters and lie to them???
Acting like dems will not win votes.
Split the country right in two, now Quebec is ceding.
Bikerken:
The correct word is “seceding.” If you’re going to rant about how English should be the only language spoken in this country, kindly do the rest of us the service of speaking and writing it properly.
Additionally, Quebec has not seceded, there is no referendum on secession currently pending, and Quebec has voted against secession twice (in 1980 and in 1995).
Bikerken……Meanwhile, Filipe Calderon orates on how horribly the mexicans are being treated in the US.
Do you think I agree with Filipe Calderon? No way.
Now keep trying to tell me how these people are not trying to push the spanish culture over the American English culture! Who are you trying to kid, me or yourself?!?
Once again, we are all talking past each other. Do you think I WANT us all to now speak Spanish? Hey, I have been irritated for years by the punch #1 for English and now you have to search the directions for English. You think I like it?
None of that is even relevant now………..I am forced to search for the English directions and you are not going to change it. You waited 20 years too late. Many things needed to be addressed along the way but they were not. I object to the pure stupidity of FORCING a voting block into the Dem corner. Make no mistake………they are not going back in the masses that some like to daydream about. It aint happening. It is too complex (because it involves families) for all the far Right’s simplistic solutions. Many like my friend, votes.
What odds you giving that he will vote Pug again?
We are all talking past each other. I WANTED SOMETHING DONE about our illegal immigration. But I live in the real world, and yes that includes the first Spanish debates. I didn’t create them. They are here and not going away because we ignore them.
This entire mess could have been handled under the label of national security in a dignified way without insult to the Mex. We needed a guest worker program. Small business needed it. The Mex needed it. So why didn’t it get addressed? Who stopped it? Who turned a 1/3 of our party against one of our very best Presidents over a issue that can NOT end the way some dream? Who gave a 30% vote away for nada? Not me.