Sep 20 2007
More On GOP And Immigration
I just wanted to add some more thoughts to the post I started below on how the GOP will still lose Congress no matter how bad the Democrats perform because of their over-the-top stance (from a vocal minority) on immigration. For those of us who have allied with the conservative coalition since Reagan’s glorious two terms in the 1980’s the alliance was one of fighting for common ground to roll back failed liberal policies. Initially it was a battle to convince America liberalism had run its course and was nothing but failed and stale policies. Then, in the 1990’s, America gave the GOP a chance to implement conservative policies and the results were great. Lower taxes increased revenues and boosted the economy. That was the big one. And the tide shifted in America. But it was not a massive switch. The GOP over reached in the late 1990’s and started to lose support.
It took 9-11 to remind America how big a failure liberalism is, and the costs. But the GOP is a victim of its own success. The common ground issues were passed and the results starting flowing in. Then we ran out of common ground. The immigration issue is one where the far right said “enough of these RINOs and compromises, no more retreat”. OK, BFD. We achieved a lot since 1980, once the GOP decided to take measured steps that allowed a coalition to march to a new conservative policy suite in unison. But now the far right is impatient, and the rest of us aren’t going where they are going. So what? With a GOP President and a dysfunctional Dem led Congress we have a pleasant stalemate in place. And we can wait, like we did with the Dems, for the GOP to try and once again play nice with others. But recall what the Dems did and the results they got in 2006 and 2007. The headfaked a move of moderation, but came roaring out with a doomed and disasterous far left plan. Ned Lamont should have been a warning sign to the Dems they were to fix things like Iraq, not give al-Qaeda a success by running away. But they tried to fake America out, and now they are disliked by about 90% of the people. They lied to their base when they said they would end the war. The lied to the middle when they did not come clean and say their plan to end the war would be surrender Iraq to al-Qaeda. They lied out of both sides of their mouths.
The GOP better take note. Honest and respectful dialogue will win allies. Trying to fool people will only create more opposition. The GOP is going too far on the immigration issue because the Tancredo-wing, no more potent than the Lamont wing in the Dems, is pulling it away from those ugly RINOs (Reps In Name Only). Never having been a Rep I am could care less if I am called a RINO. But people need to think long and hard about what they are doing. I am proud and happy to remain outside the GOP right now. How many more like me can the GOP lose?
I am proud and happy to remain outside the GOP right now. How many more like me can the GOP lose?
I’m proud also, to remain outside the GOP too!
I don’t know a single Republican or Conservative who is against Immigration. Not one.
Perhaps you meen something else?
So you suggest a third party?
If I was given only two choices: Democrats v. Republicans, I’d rather vote Republican.
Having a Republican President and a Republican majority in both houses was where the Republicans replaced principle with power. But they still had too many liberal Republicans.
I prefer this over a Democrat President and a Democrat majority in both houses.
This mixture put us in a stalemate. Had Bush needing to get something passed once the elections are over, he wouldn’t be successful. Fortunately, Bush got what he needed before the ’06 elections.
Which mixture would be better: Democratic President with the Republican majority or Republican President with the Democrat majority?
Well, national security makes the Republican President with the Democrat majority the better choice for such a mixture.
As Lurker states, national security makes a Republican president more important than a Republican congress. And liberal Republicans nullified the Republican majority.
I think a third party is a recipe for stagnation and retreat on principle, like Europe, unless it replaces one of the two parties. Better to reform the Republican Party.
“How many more like me can the GOP lose?”
Don’t worry, Strata, you can stay!
The current GOP, representing the check pants repubics, has a lot more in common with you than the conservative base, it left behind many years ago.
We are the true independents, leaning to the Constitution Party….
GOP, RIP!
You worked hard to sell the country, and you are now ripping the results.
DBOSTAN,
What are the burning issues in your world view that trump all others?
How can you not see that “independent” is another word for irrelevance?
Over at JOM Tom got a thread going on health care costs. And needless to say eventually the blame for high health care costs in the United States was the Hispanics. The same people to blame for everything else it seems.
I had words with someone.
Now the right either blames everything on Bush or the illegals, they are like a broken record. It is ridiculous.
And now while Hillary is out there pushing a new program all they can think to do is blame the wetbacks.
Honestly, they are obsessed.
The responsibility for high health care costs can be laid directly at the door of federal government involvement. Whether it be via regulations such as “nobody can be denied service, ” govt. paid ins. such as Medicare and Medicaid, or other types of mandates and entitlements, this govt. involvement is directly responsible for running up costs. There is no way that you can create a hugh pile of money and tell people to come get all they are entitled to without most people trying to get all they can get. The only answer to our “crisis” is for the govt. to get all the way in, by regulating, rationing and paying for everyone’s health care, or all the way out, and let the free market set the prices at what the trade will bear. As it is, most hospitals, Drs. and other HC service providers can make a darned good living just serving people on Govt. paid programs. They don’t have to care for people who can’t pay.
The fact is that prior to government involvement, people spent about 17% of their income on Health care. Today, with all the Private and Govt. paid ins. programs paying into the system, people still spend about 17% of their inocme on health care. ( That’s for ins. premiums, deductibles and co-payments) This proves that the old economic law “the price will be what the trade will bear” is still applicable and there is nothing the govt. can do to about it except to take the whole thing over and regulate, ration, and completely control it.
Momdear:
We can not just let people die. I am not saying everyone gets everything they want, but some things the government has done has helped, such as vaccinations.
Back in 1918, 675,000 Americans died in an influenza epidemic. no government programs back then.
Well, the GOP represents the interests of the big business, NOW.
Hence the complete disregard to our crushing national debt and loss of jobs, due to “free” trade.
And the amnesty which was pushed not only by them but the demsheviks too, for different reasons…
Our country is very vulnerable now.
They did not solve our energy independence problem, our ACLU problem, our trade imbalance problem, our China problem, our medical insurance problem, our illegal immigration problem and so forth.
The GOP, under the 1st and especially the 2nd Bush, lost its brand, established during the Reagan years, and built upon the Goldwater legacy, and reversed to the state it was during the post Nixon years…
Was I clear enough?
DB,
You are clear now. I probably share many of your views, but:
The GOP advances a free economy which creates the most jobs and highest standard of living.”Big business” is part of the economy. Can you imagine mass producing cars or refrigerators in your garage? And protectionism is a lose-lose proposition.
Our ‘crushing” debt must be measured as a percentage of our economy. And “trade imbalance” has its benefits ie affordable products. Don’t forget we are a knowledge based economy now.
Goldwater left no legacy, he was defeated. Bush has a good record with Asia, no thanks to the Dems. And Reagan had a learning curve.
Big business? Most of the people who come here to work do not work for big business.
One clarification is that given either mixture, I would not want a strong majority…not even the Democrats! Don’t want to give them the power to override the President’s veto.
Don Surber just posted the polls which happen to be different:
Republicans (hearts) Congress
Looks like the Republicans are doing far better than the Democrats.
If you look at all the polls as to what issues the voters are concerned about the immigration issue ranks above both the Iraq War and the Economy.
So I believe it is wrong to claim this is a hard right Republican issue.
Meanwhile, while you guys bleat on about how horribly the GOP treats ILLEGAL immigrants:
http://www.kgw.com/news-local/stories/kgw_091907_education_mexican_curriculum_.ede64566.html
God Bikerken, soothie’s twin is back.
Merlin:
I think people are concerned about the issue, but I also think that most people want realistic solutions to this problem. Thus far the hard right has not only killed any possible compromise they have gloated about it. Which creates a feeling of status quo, that is not good. If people are concerned they want to feel they are moving forward.
I want to see stronger enforcement of laws myself as well better security at the border. However, I also know we need to be realistic about the people who are already here and I don’t think that the Democrats are going to just give the hard right what they want on this issue. And right now the Democrats have the majority and it looks like they are going to keep it.
I hope the Senate Democrat’s majority will not grow. If it does, lordy, lordy, imagine what they would do…far more damage to this country.
merlin, I’m not surprised that the polls being reflective of issues other than the war and economy. I never believed that the Democrat got the mandate of the Iraqi war as a result of their ’06 wins.
I see that Reyes wants to roll back the recent temporary FISA law completely.
There is no crushing debt in this country. Crushing debt occured in the late 70’s with carter who raised taxes and had high interest rates.
This administration has brought in tax revenue like never before. They have manages this War on Terror excellently.
It amazes me that our hubris is so great that we can argue such inane points. One would never know that our very existence is being challenged…must be because George W. Bush has been masterful at keeping us safe, both physically and financially, the Forbes 400 being an excellent example: it takes OVER ONE BILLION to be on the list…and 80 billionaires in America did NOT make it. Amazing!
G_d bless our President and G_d bless America! Still the Land of the Free (finacially and otherwise) and Home of the Brave….unless a democrat gets into the White House.
Terrye: shame on you for saying that about Bikerken; seriously!
Bootlicker is a traitor, that’s a FACT!
Bikerken is a fellow American, and Patriot, who is rightly, and correctly worried about the effects of ILLEGAL Immigration on this country, our society, etc.
It’s beneath you to say something like that, you know better.