Feb 08 2008
Suicide Voting A Stab At Our Military
I had speculated that suicide voting for Hillary over McCain, or suicide non-voting (which is marginally better than adding to the Dem’s tally) because of McCain would be backstabbing the military who have sacrificed for years in Iraq fighting the war on terror. Well today that speculation was confirmed on Laura Ingraham’s radio show.
The mother of a soldier called in and was livid that any “true” conservative would vote for a Dem over McCain and basically snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. I could tell Laura was a bit stunned by the call, though to her credit she has not been a proponent of suicide voting like Anne Coulter and Glen Beck. Byron York was on the show with Laura and made an important observation on what is actually carrying McCain to victory: Patriotism.
Byron recalled two events on the campaign trail, a Romney rally and a McCain rally. He noted how Romney was all business and had a laundry list of things he would do once he got to DC. At the McCain rally it was duty, honor, country. McCain’s campaign is to kick the hell out of al-Qaeda. And he is clearly getting a lot of support from the members of the military past and present. I think this is the most important observation of the GOP primary and the 2008 election. McCain is running as a patriot, leading patriots.
And that is why the hyper-partisans who attack him are losing so much ground so fast. Even Laura, who was on an even keel for a while, backslid again. After the break and right after that telling call from a military family she played David Shuster and Chris Mathews lauding her jab at McCain at CPAC yesterday. She was impressed MSNBC was agreeing with her about the rift between “true conservative patriots” and the true American patriot. Laura really fumbled that one badly. I can hear that mother just going livid all over again.
I hate to say this folks, but those who have sacrificed and lived the war are not going to be impressed with those who cannot get over fines and back taxes as punishment for illegal workers and put the priority of this nation on the war they are fighting. The ‘true’ conservatives better realize it is country over policies, or they will lose the support of the military.
I also see a new dimension to this race which has McCain the war-hero and patriot championing the cause of those in the military who have been fighting and winning. He is their man. And no matter how smoothly Obama or Clinton try and sell their cut-and-run surrender agenda, McCain will be there – like the pit bull he is – raking them over the coals for undermining our military and their successes. That is one thing McCain’s ‘temperament’ is perfectly suited for – bashing dems.
This is interesting. From the Tiger in Somerville on why John McCain just might win:
People don’t like the situation in Iraq. If you poll them, they say that it wasn’t worth it, we shouldn’t be there, etc., etc. That is the data my Democratic friends rely upon, when they say that Senators Clinton and Obama’s positions on Iraq — withdrawal within 60 days of inauguration — are on solid ground. But — here’s the rub — they don’t want to lose. So around 55-60% of people at the same time have consistently been willing to follow the battle plan of General Petraeus.
The Democratic nominee is going to be running on a platform with the explicit plank of retreat and withdrawal from Iraq.
This is an elemental signal to this Reagan Democrat portion of the populace — they hear the words “retreat & withdrawalâ€, and they get images of helicopters leaving embassy roofs in their heads.
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H/T Instapundit
Terrye:
Despite the rhetoric, all of the candidates positions on Iraq — at this moment — are rather similar. None of them would pull out; the consequences of that would be too great especially given things are improving. Our military is maxed out right now, add to that the cost of having our military fully deployed and we are going to have to start a gradual withdraw sometime in the next presidency. They way they would achieve success is by listening to our generals, and adopting to situations on the ground. They all therefore have about the same strategy.
The candidates are all patriots. I don’t think to vote for Hillary or Obama is to be a traitor to our military whether they crossed the line from the GOP or not. That is AJ’s point. The reason some of them are going to sit out or vote for the democrat has nothing to do with the military; it’s about issues they feel McCain betrayed them on.
I agree it’s ludicrous, but it doesn’t have much to do with the military.
Klimt:
The other day I heard both Democrats say they would begin withdrawal immediately.
And yes, it is a slap at the military when they believe it is and just do not care. When you hear someone on the right attack the Democrats for their position on the war and then a few days later they are threatening to vote for them, I either have to believe they were full of it all along, or they just don’t care.
And I will tell you something else, if they do not intend to actually withdraw from Iraq and are just playing games with their base, they will have some splaining to do, because those folks are voting for an end to the war, right now, today, if not sooner.
Like I said, if they really believe that stuff, fine, but if they do not and are just trying to get even then obviously it is a slap at the military, either that are they are just completely without principle and vote for spite.
Just think, if the Democrats had not voted support for the war in first place, there would not have been a military action. Their support lasted as long as it was politically advantageous. So I am not sure how much of their opposition is principle and how much is politics.
Terrye,
So I guess if you’re a registered Democrat and you vote for a democrat you’re still a fine American but if you are a Republican and you disagree with you party’s candidate then you are a traitor or heaven forbid, a purist like Rush!!! You guys have become so unhinged you make no sense at all anymore.
You aren’t even a registered Republican and all you can do is trash those who have a stake in their own party! It’s tough when you sit on the outside and have other’s do all the hard work from the inside. Kind of like welfare for politics. At the end of the day you’re left shouting from the rooftops”give me more, give me more” because “you need me, you need me!”
AJ brags about how he predicted the right screwing things up 2 years ago. Good for him! And Rush predicted the moderates and independents would scream and yell and demand to bring the party more to the center 2 years ago and predicted the same outcome! Hey, you’re all in great company!!!
Whippet:
So I guess if you supported the war for years and voted for George Bush in 2004 largely because of it and you supported a strong national security stance, voted against anyone who did not support that same stance…. and then turn around and vote for Obama because you are pissed at McCain for something that has nothing to do with the war…. then you are keeping faith with the young people you voted to send off to war.
So I am not a Republican?? I have been voting Republican for years and I have sent family members off to fight in this damned war. Their lives mean more to me and the rest of our family than some pissing match between conservative Republicans who would happily turn on their own party for nominating someone they do not like and just say TOO BAD BOYS…if the whole thing goes to hell when President Obama takes over that is your tough luck. The folks back home had other priorities.
Besides Whippet, if any Republican can really bring himself to vote for Clinton or Obama, I don’t think he needs to be lecturing me on who is or is not a real Republican.
And you know what? There were millions of Republicans voting in those primaries, and they had a stake in their party and a lot of them did vote for McCain. Don’t they count either?
Terrye,
As usual you are missing the point! Stop blaming the so-called “purists” for everything that has happened! The fact that you have family members who have gone to fight in this war, and I thank them with all of my heart, should make you more angry at the ones who have never supported them and have done everything in their power to get them killed! All of these people you are screaming about have been some of the strongest supporters of our military. Just because they have some huge bug up their butt right now shouldn’t cause you to lose sight of who the REAL enemy is.
Those “purists” really believe that the cause (which includes the ongoing strength and support of our military) is better served by having a botched Democratic administration which could cause a turnover in Dems to Reps in the Congress (as happened during Reagan and Clintons terms)and then a turnover in the White House after 4 years.
I personally believe that leaves way too much to chance and don’t agree with them, but it isn’t because they don’t support the troops. Don’t let a few angry conservatives cause you to lose sight of who the real traitors are.
Terrye:
I think the threat of voting for Hillary will be a lot more talk than action. We may see some of GOP not voting which I think is ludicrous still. But we must respect their choice. If they don’t like any candidate, they shouldn’t be forced to back anyones. Nor should they be called names.
I think it’s to confuse the issue however to say that a vote for anyone but McCain — even a non-vote — is backstabbing the military as if the other candidates were not patriots. It might be a lot of other things but I am not going to call them traitors.
Terrye,
Don’t put words in my mouth. I did not say that they did not count. Yes, a lot of Republicans did vote for McCain and they are still Republicans and I am not the least bit angry at them because they did. It is their right. Many of them fought for more moderate platforms and ideas and that is what the parties are about.
But as for McCain, he couldn’t even get a majority in his home state! Those who know him the best! The conservative Republican vote did not go to McCain. His largest block of voters was from moderates and independents and that does not win elections. He will have to draw in the conservatives and that will be tough to do given his penchant for stabbing them in the back. Obama and Clinton will have to pull in the liberal moderates and independents as they can’t win alone with the radical left they have aligned themselves with. My point is…we need each other so when you have these conservatives here on this blog telling you that they intend to vote for McCain why do you all care so much about Rush and Coulter and the like? It sounds more like you fear them rather than hate what they are saying.
I agree with a lot that Rush and the rest say but I am still going to hold my nose, pull the lever for McCain and probably hurl afterwards, not because Rush or Malkin or Levin or whoever told me what to do or not to do. It’s because it’s what I want to do.
They have done a lot over the years to bring a lot of people to the Conservative cause and that should be commended for anyone who believes in some form of conservativism. But they do have a right to say what they do, just as you and I do. We just don’t have to buy it if we don’t want to. That’s one of the great beauties of America!
Whippet1,
You need to stop defending people with ludicrous and self destructive ideas like suicide voting. They have publicly announced their intentions and their warped thinking – which makes criticism of their warped thinking fair game.
You can’t shut down criticism because it makes someone uncomfortable or look bad. The point is to criticize respectfully – even if it does mean trying not break out laughing while you do it.
The problem those who I target with my criticism have is they love to criticize and smear others, but get indignant when they are on the receiving end. And after claims of traitor, unpatriotic, etc they have no room to whine.
You also need to recognize I was pointing out how the military is responding to these acts. Their feelings of betrayal are real. Those thinking they are not harming anyone with this nutty idea need to be warmed they are wrong so – if they care – they can change course.
Stop trying to control the debate. It is what it is.
Whippet:
What AJ said.
I am alos getting tired of hearing how it is better to lose in 06 so that we can win in 08. It is better to lose in 08 so that we can win in 12. Needless to say the purists will then be saying it is better to lose 12 so that we can win in 16 and so on and so forth…until there is nothing left to lose any more or any party to lose it.
AJ,
I never defended “suicide voters” for their choices I defended the fact that it was their right to have one. What is becoming more and more apparent every day is that it is you who wants to stifle debate with those who disagree with you. That is controlling the debate.
And yes, the point is to criticize respectfully. That of course apparently only means your definition of respect. I believe that you have also been disrespectful.
And remember that when you use the military as a justification for your point of view that it is THAT military that is risking their lives and dying for our freedoms, one of which is freedom of speech, whether it be Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi, Rush, Coulter, you or me.
This is your blog and you can control that debate any way you choose. But then don’t claim that it is debate you are after.
“The problem those I target with my criticism have is they love to criticize and smear others, and then get indignant when they are on the receiving end.”
Yes, I know. That’s exactly the point I’ve been trying to get across about you.