Feb 08 2008
Suicide Voting A Stab At Our Military
I had speculated that suicide voting for Hillary over McCain, or suicide non-voting (which is marginally better than adding to the Dem’s tally) because of McCain would be backstabbing the military who have sacrificed for years in Iraq fighting the war on terror. Well today that speculation was confirmed on Laura Ingraham’s radio show.
The mother of a soldier called in and was livid that any “true” conservative would vote for a Dem over McCain and basically snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. I could tell Laura was a bit stunned by the call, though to her credit she has not been a proponent of suicide voting like Anne Coulter and Glen Beck. Byron York was on the show with Laura and made an important observation on what is actually carrying McCain to victory: Patriotism.
Byron recalled two events on the campaign trail, a Romney rally and a McCain rally. He noted how Romney was all business and had a laundry list of things he would do once he got to DC. At the McCain rally it was duty, honor, country. McCain’s campaign is to kick the hell out of al-Qaeda. And he is clearly getting a lot of support from the members of the military past and present. I think this is the most important observation of the GOP primary and the 2008 election. McCain is running as a patriot, leading patriots.
And that is why the hyper-partisans who attack him are losing so much ground so fast. Even Laura, who was on an even keel for a while, backslid again. After the break and right after that telling call from a military family she played David Shuster and Chris Mathews lauding her jab at McCain at CPAC yesterday. She was impressed MSNBC was agreeing with her about the rift between “true conservative patriots” and the true American patriot. Laura really fumbled that one badly. I can hear that mother just going livid all over again.
I hate to say this folks, but those who have sacrificed and lived the war are not going to be impressed with those who cannot get over fines and back taxes as punishment for illegal workers and put the priority of this nation on the war they are fighting. The ‘true’ conservatives better realize it is country over policies, or they will lose the support of the military.
I also see a new dimension to this race which has McCain the war-hero and patriot championing the cause of those in the military who have been fighting and winning. He is their man. And no matter how smoothly Obama or Clinton try and sell their cut-and-run surrender agenda, McCain will be there – like the pit bull he is – raking them over the coals for undermining our military and their successes. That is one thing McCain’s ‘temperament’ is perfectly suited for – bashing dems.
I’d rather be a patriot over a conservative any day of the week.
To comment on Ingraham’s insipid labels – there is no such thing as a “true conservative patriot”. There are simply patriots and partisans. Time for all of those on the right to choose which one they are.
I know one poster here yesterday objected to this line of thought, saying “that’s just like calling us traitors!” Well, if you take actions that you KNOW will harm this country’s military (and I intentionally exclude people who are too stupid to understand the effect of the actions, ie, most of those on the left) then guess what – you ARE an intentional traitor.
So my question for the “suicide voters” is simply this – are you a traitor, or are you just stupid?
I hate to say this folks, but those who have sacrificed and lived the war are not going to be impressed with those who cannot get over fines and back taxes as punishment for illegal workers and put the priority of this nation on the war they are fighting. The ‘true’ conservatives better realize it is country over policies, or they will lose the support of the military.
There was a sign posted at a USMC FOB in Iraq:
“America is not at war. The Marines are at war. America is at the mall.”
The “true conservative patriots” are not at war. The true American patriots are. And thank God for them.
I remember when my cousin’s oldest son went off to Iraq and he asked me to pray for his son’s safe return. Then he told me how proud he was of that young man. And that is not the only relative my family has sent off to Iraq.
When I think that the worry and sacrifice of those young people and the family could be thrown away over some silly partisan crap, I could scream. Too bad they did not tell us a few years ago that this support was conditional on McCain Feingold or immigration, maybe the military families would have decided to sit this war out the same the sore losers want to sit out this election.
But then again, soldiers are expected to do their duty. Unlike those fair weather friends out there.
I don’t support all of McCain’s positions. In fact I supported the drug prescription plan and he did not. But for heavens sakes I am not going to sit idly by and let someone like Barack Hussein Obama surrender to AlQaida.
No sir.
National security has become the most important item on my list that determines my vote.
What galls me is the democrats’ response and lack of understanding why national security has become more important to me. They actually believe that focusing on national security will ignore many social issues, such as health care.
My response is that if you don’t have national security, you won’t have social issues to worry about.
Funny how the purpose of government has expanded from what it used to be: Defense (of life) and protection.
I don’t know. This thread is starting to sound like the fringe to me.
Conservatives were pretty solid on supporting the war, the military, the surge, winning in Iraq, etc. And, I think it sounds like the fringe to say that Republicans or Democrats who don’t vote for McCain are unpatriotic. There are probably a lot wearing the uniform who will vote for Obama /Hillary over McCain (not everyone is a one issue voter and I hope McCain knows that). Are they partisans and not patriots? Not only that, all of the candidates (except perhaps Ron Paul) were Patriots leading Patriots.
Maybe I’m just stuck in the middle; but, a lot of you guys are starting to sound like the fringe you so despise. What’s your next demand? Round everyone up in buses, take them to the poll, have only one name on the ballot, and watch them put the x in the box? That might be how Saddam won elections. It shouldn’t be how McCain does.
The immigration bill got shot down. Get over it.
McCain is the GOP nominee. Get over it.
Otherwise the GOP becomes a party of fringes.
When that happens……I’m outta here.
That is one thing McCain’s ‘temperament’ is perfectly suited for – bashing dems.
Yes, and it cheers me. Here’s another…….
“It was an unwritten rule for a long time,” McCain told radio host Sean Hannity, “that you kept your mouth shut about the conduct, particularly of national security affairs, by the people that succeeded you. That is obviously not honored by either former President Carter or former President Clinton.”
“Look, former presidents can do damage,” McCain warned. “It’s very unhelpful. It’s in some ways damaging.
He then added, “I just have two words: Shut up!”
I loved that one.
Frogg,
If they vote for Clinton to payback McCain and that destroys all the military has fought and died for that is wrong. And it is not ‘fringe’ to point out the fact McCain is supported by our troops and slapping him is a slap at them.
It is not wrong to point out dumb moves, it is wrong to do the dumb move anyway after it is pointed out.
If voting for an anti-war candidate is stabbing the troops in the back, then why is it that the troops give the most money to Barack Obama and Ron Paul? (Paul leads in donors from “Individuals in the Army, Navy and Air Force. Obama’s second.)
Of course conservatives will vote for McCain, as well they should, because he is to Hillary and Obama’s right on every issue. But there is no evidence that “the troops†want to stay in Iraq forever.
Just the opposite; it seems like people in the military are more likely to know that we can’t “win†in Iraq and that McCain wants America to be defeated and humiliated by continuing to kill Americans in Iraq for no strategic purpose.
After all, they’re there; they know that the decline in violence was due to Sadr’s cease-fire and not the failed surge.
So why don’t you look up some of those anti-war troops and tell them that they hate America because they know that the surge failed and that staying in Iraq is bad for America’s national security. Go on, tell them. I dares ya.
I agree with Frogg on this.
Hillary, Obama, McCain, and Romney are all patriots and love this country equally. They just have different ideas on what direction it should go. If someone honestly believes Obama is the better man to lead this country over McCain, they are not traitors. If they find none appealing and choose to sit out, respect their choice.
I agree that the constant bashing of McCain needs to stop. It’s old. How many times do we have to hear it? But to say a vote against McCain is a vote against our military makes you sound like a jingo, leading jingos.
Klimt,
Except that the Dems want a premature or announced withdrawal from the ME, which would waist the tremendous effort already given by our military. How would you make that argument without sounding “jingoistic?”
You see this is what bugs me, it is ok to vote for the Democrats in November, even though they have promised to pull the troops out of the ME ASAP, no matter what any silly military people on the ground might say. Why? Well because McCain is too liberal and is too inclined to work with those same Democrats and thus must be punished.
The logic escapes me.
I don’t doubt that those Democrats think they are doing the right thing. And I bet McCain thought he was doing the right thing when he supported McCain Feingold and comprehensive immigration reform too.
The immigration bill was killed after the right accused their own president of being a sellout to Mexico. And then they did not come up with a better solution. And moderates blamed Bush for not getting it through. So he got screwed both ways on the deal. And for what? An issue that will probably never be settled to much of anyone’s satisfaction.
If the alternative in November were someone like Lieberman I would not say that a vote for the other guy was a vote against the military, but if you don’t believe that this is the choice, just go look at the anti war sites and listen to their rhetoric. They are under the impression that Obama means surrender and a world wide apology tour and McCain means we stick it out in Iraq until the place is secure.
This is exactly why McCain did so well with the veterans in the primaries, they do not want to see another defeat and retreat election.
TOG:
That is not how the vast majority of them vote. And keep in mind, this is a volunteer military. Pacifists and isolationists are not big on joining the military.
But I don’t doubt that there is a faction, probably about a quarter of the people in the military who just want out. There always are.
And tog, I think that most soldiers think they had more to do with the improvement in security in Iraq, not Sadr. In fact I think your remark that we “can’t win” says it all.
(Paul leads in donors from “Individuals in the Army, Navy and Air Force. Obama’s second.)
Sounds like they’re in contention for the “Stolen Valor” voting demographic.
If that is even true.
Kind of makes you wonder why they keep reenlisting.
The Macker:
None of the candidates would withdraw from the Middle East, especially given that things are improving. I believe as a President — forget what they actually say while they campaign — all of them will be thinking of our country first. In that sense, I see them all as supporters of our military and the Middle East. The consequences of pulling out right now would be too great. Situations on the ground change and so then do the policies.
All of the candidates actually have been vague on how they would achieve success in Iraq including McCain. They are all actually rather similar — adopt to the situations on the ground and listen to your generals. By the way, what are the candidates positions on Russia, China, Pakistan, etc.? I haven’t heard a word on both sides and it involves our military.
The logic of the argument is stupid. Do people who don’t support Hillary and her socialized medicine not care about the poor and sick? Are they then traitors to the country? Frogg made a good point, there is more to the candidates then just the military. I look at their overall positions on social, economic, domestic, and foreign policies.
So no, I think we are all patriots here doing what we think is in our and this countries best interest. A honest vote for Hillary or Obama does make you a traitor but a patriot.
Klimt:
Obama and Clinton have both said they will pull the troops out of Iraq within a few months of winning the election. They have not been vague in the least. Before Obama caught up with her Hillary Clinton was not that extreme, but once Mr. Charisma started attracting followers like a cult leader she changed her tune.
And btw, I do not doubt that there are many fine Americans who will walk into polling places and vote for Democrats. I am not saying otherwise. I am talking about Republicans who do believe it is essential that we win in Iraq and yet are willing to vote for Democrats who say we must withdraw ASAP.
Will they find it more difficult to do once they are in there? Of course they will and what is more they will probably try to do some stuff where we keep people there to fight AlQaida but we don’t secure the country or whatever.
My problem is with people who vote for a Democrat because they think McCain is TOO much like one himself, even though they do feel that the war on Terror is important. They are just more interested in sticking it to McCain.
So I guess our difference of opinion would be if we were actually talking about an honest vote for the Democrats, or a backstab get even vote for the Democrats.