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As a conservative independent I of course like to view the world through my only lens of preferences, but I think it is safe to say I have my biases fairly well checked when I claim this year Americans are heading away from the hyper-partisan fringes, weary of nearly 3 decades of hyper-partisan rancor and dysfunctional zer-sum games. We see it playing out in the Democrat and Republican sides.

On the left we see the stronger general election candidate, Hillary Clinton, losing to the more liberal Obama. Clinton is much stronger against McCain, but she keeps losing ground to Obama the more her general election electability shows. The Democrat Party is being taken over by the far left which is itching to come out of the closet. That is why when Wright and Ayers come up it doesn’t hurt Obama in the primaries, just kills him for the general

It is also playing out on the right as the ‘true conservative” far right bemoans McCain’s positions and their 20-25% keep voting against him in GOP primaries. The problem is the GOP is tired of the self destructiveness of the far right who call people who disagree with the Quislings and Traitors (just ask anyone who support Comprehensive Immigration Reform why there will be no alliances with the hyper-right any more).

The most enjoyable example of this was on Sean Hannity’s radio show when he hosted “The Architect” Karl Rove. Hannity made the mistake of trying to paint McCain’s problems with the ‘true conservatives’ as a liability. His two examples were “The Gang of 14″ and Comprehensive Immigration Reform (which I am glad to see McCain is bring back as part of his policy plans when elected), which McCain notes openly with well deserved pride. Hannity was not prepared to be ripped a new one by Rove who just destroyed Hannity’s far right biases against McCain.

On the Gang of 14 Rove noted that the compromise gave Democrats cover to allow numerous conservative federal judges to be seated as well as Roberts and Alito on the US SC. Rove noted that he had his doubts initially, but came to recognize the Gang of 14 was critical to the administration’s efforts to mold the judiciary in line with conservative, constructionist principles.

On immigration reform Rove really nailed Hannity and the “Amnesty Hypochondriacs”. Of course the word “Amnesty” was selected by the opponents of immigration reform because it was the root of their resistance - they did not want the 1 in 5 workers (Rove’s number) here illegally to get off with a fine, paying back taxes and proving they are free of violent crimes. This obsession with desiring much stronger actions than the law or America were prepared to invoke is why I call the “Amnesty Hypochondriacs”.

Besides pointing out to Hannity that 1 in 5 workers here are illegal and we cannot simply have them leave without killing our economy, he noted that Bush ended the 30 year long practice of catch-and-release, where illegals found on the border were given a date to be in court and then released, wherein they never showed up. Rove noted the last catch-and-release was in 2006, after Bush led the way in providing all sorts of resources for personnel and facilities required to end the practice.

Another point Rove hammered home is most people do not know that 1.3 million illegal aliens attempting to cross our borders were sent back home last year - a very, very impressive number which shows our borders ARE being strengthened. Nothing will be foolproof, but that is amazing progress the Amnesty Hypochondriacs dismiss out of fear that the day will come when we do deal with the long term illegals with less than deportation or coerced deportation. Oh well, those far right dreams will never happen.

Which brings me back to why McCain is doing so well right now. Every time Hannity or Ingraham or Malkin go ballistic because McCain is not conservative enough the provide McCain distance from the one association that would give him trouble in the general election. Obama has problems because of his new found ties to the radical left. McCain is gaining credibility with the continued flames from the far right (who are not radical like the left, just way out of the mainstream like the left).

I have seen attempts by the far left to tie McCain to folks on the far right - and it fails because everyone knows the far right is ready to sit out this election, especially if McCain keeps his pledge to implement comprehensive immigration reform. So while Obama can be attacked by his far left political associations (which avoids the backlash of attacking Obama directly), McCain cannot be tied to a group that cannot stop spouting off their dislike of the man.

And this is why I am fairly certain this year America is staying away from the hyper-partisans. All indications are McCain is perfectly set up to take advantage of this, and the far right is doing their part to help him. And all indications are Hillary is losing because of this, and Obama and his far left buddies are doing their part in hurting him more in the general election. Sweet.

BTW - just a reminder McCain was one of my last choices from the beginning and I posted on his weak support for the sanctity of life through his support of Embryonic Stem Cell Research, an issue I care very deeply about. So am by no means a McCainiac, but like most independence more pragmatic than driven to the political extremes on either side.

67 Responses to “2008 - The Year Of The Centrists”

Mc Cain would also close Gitmo. I don’t mind if he has a different point of view, but I thoroughly dislike him when he criticizes the President. He has no idea how hard being President is, a little less arrogance please, John.

PS AJ, there is not a liberal who would call McCain a centrist. MSM thinks of him as a right winger, maybe not in the past, but for sure when the general gets going.

AJ, “a conservative independent”?
Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease.

Like him or dislike him he is better than the other two. There is no sense in carping on your disagreements with him. These disagreements are few compared to disagreements with the other two drastically. He was my last choice but choices have been taken away from me. It is him or no one. And no one is unacceptable. I will not sit at home and let a liberal take over my country or in Clinton’s case a liberal, liar and thief. And Obama was a devout muslim when he lived in Indonesia. He learned the Koran in the Arabic language which only the radically devout do. He moved to Hawaii at the age of ten when his mother divorced his stepfather. He was listed as a muslim at the school in Hawaii. His grandparents were atheists. The first time he was exposed to the Christian religion was with Rev. Wright and this was a strange interrpretation of Christianity but it fell right in there with hatred of the infidel. Therefore he was a muslim for twenty five years of his life. I cannot believe the people of this country can be so stupid to turn this county over to a muslim practicing talquih (sp). The only thing going to this guy is he is a good orator. But listen to his words. He is saying nothing just vague cliches. Just think what his cabinet would look like. No, I will hold my nose and vote for McCain because the fate of this country is more important to me than petty disagreements or my own ego.

You can relax Barbara, the voting public despises the fringes so much so that neither Obama nor Hillary have a chance of winning.

…or so AJ would have us believe.

AJ,

“this year American are heading away from the hyper-partisan fringes”

Then,
“On the left we see the stronger general election candidate, Hillary Clinton, losing to the more liberal Obama”

Quite a contradiction there…
Clinton and Obama are in this fight for a reason and the Dem Party in “general” is united behind one of the 2 winning. The split in the party comes over which one it should be. They’re both libs of the radical variety and they’re being shown the “love” in huge numbers in every primary. Which one can win a General Election is irrelevant as to whether the party has moved away from their “hyper-partisan” fringe. The majority of the Dem party live on the ‘hyper-partisan” fringe and it’s only the emotional connection to their favorite candidate that has caused the split.

” It is also playing out on the right as the ‘true conservative” far right bemoans McCain’s positions and their 20-25% keep voting against him in GOP primaries.”

First of all, few are voting against McCain in the primaries. That serves no purpose at this point. He’s the given. What you are choosing to ignore (due to your disgust of Rush) is the power of “Operation Chaos” which has contributed to the split within the Democrat primaries and the rancor that is building along emotional and racial lines amongst Clinton and Obama supporters. Your “lens of preferences” have clouded your normally rational thought process on these issues.

“This obsession with desiring much stronger actions than the law or America were prepared to invoke is why I call the “Amnesty Hypochondriacs”.”

Uh, I believe that it was the uproar across America of those opposed to amnesty that created the “1.3 million illegal aliens attempting to cross our borders were sent back home last year”

“I have seen attempts by the far left to tie McCain to folks on the far right - and it fails because everyone knows the far right is ready to sit out this election, especially if McCain keeps his pledge to implement comprehensive immigration reform.”

First of all, comprehensive immigration reform isn’t the highly contested issue…ILLEGAL immigration is. You continue to use immigrants and immigration interchangeably to describe the “Amnesty Hypochondriacs” when legal immigrants are not their issue…illegals are. Anyone in this country legally attempting to gain citizenship by following the rules of immigration are immigrants, those who sneak in and hope for amnesty are illegals. But it’s clear that with that distinction clarified your entire basis for arguement is a moot point. And who exactly are these far right people who plan on sitting out the election? Seems to me that many who have opposed McCain on many issues have agreed to vote for him as the better of 2 evils so what’s your point? And if you don’t think that the majority of the Dems will do the same then I think you’ll be sadly mistaken come election day. But of course, you’ll just blame the conservatives…because that’s what you do.

“they did not want the 1 in 5 workers (Rove’s number) here illegally to get off with a fine, paying back taxes and proving they are free of violent crimes.”

Exactly what was that fine and exactly how much back taxes were they required to pay? Your failure to mention the miniscule amount these illegals would pay as compared to what American citizens or legal immigrants have paid over the same time period smacks of bias towards conservatives and Republicans, not just “Amnesty Hypochondriacs” as you call them. To expect someone to pay less than all other Americans is simply another form of “affirmative action” which is highly prized by the left.

“So am by no means a McCainiac, but like most independence more pragmatic than driven to the political extremes on either side.”

Pragmatic. Hmmm…Sounds more like the “emotional, feelings oriented” left to me.

Are these people also “Amnesty Hypochondriacs”? I guess so…Who woulda thought it?

http://michellemalkin.com/2008/05/07/how-about-reaching-out-to-these-hispanics-mccain/

Excellent post Whippet1. AJ frequently “whistles past the graveyard” whenever he feels uneasy about his “centrist” theories and our candidate. Why else would he drag them out so often? Sounds like a guy whose “johnson” is out in the wind and he constantly needs to reassure himself.

I’m sick of the negativity that has taken over conservatives. It’s a sign of hubris, imho.

Ive, is it the messenger or the message you are sick of? Because if you listened to Rush everyday, “negativity” is the last thing you’d hear.

I do listen to Rush *every* day. Even he had become negative for a while. However, he is not the one that, in general, harps on the negative….it’s the others.

I say, let’s shift to a focus on what conservatives DO like about McCain. It’s a basic human principle that negativity breeds negativity. And it destroys many things.

And the fact is this: Obama or McCain. Those are the choices, like it or not. One is DEFINITELY better than the other.

Good, then you know that Rush is rarely negative. I would suggest that you focus on our humble host here who can’t seem to get past the conservative burr under his saddle. The conservatives I know don’t need their facts spoon-fed to them. 1+1 always equals 2 regardless of whether it’s politely administered with a spoonful of sugar or hammered over the head. My suggestion for you and AJ, if I may, is to focus on the message conservatives are offering rather than the personalities of those delivering it.

Reasonable post.

Thank you. And I try to remind those who identify themselves as Republicans that you need to quit fighting him, and find ways to use his candidacy to increase the party membership.

I think he will win. Some of those who identity themselves as Republicans have reasons to stand aghast at his existence as my party’s candidate. And no, he wasn’t my first, even second choice. But he is the choice of my party. And I have reasons to support my party. They are selfish reasons, my reasons, but reason enough for me.

Do I have a good reason to keep an eye on him, as president? Of course. But we survived Lyndon B., Jimmy E., and Bubba C (for two terms).

We will endure Obama or Senator Clinton, as well. We are greater than the sum of our parts. And we cannot deny what we are–from Left to Right. We are Americans. Even if you hate this country, you can only do it as an American. And that brings smile wrinkels to my eyes.

75,

I agree with you and very well said!

Ivehadit,
If negativity is a sign of hubris…then AJ’s in trouble…
Just because someone disagrees it’s not necessarily negativity or hubris, sometimes it’s simply a difference of opinion and usually a passionate difference. That’s o.k. though and it’s the strength of this country.
I agree that we need to concentrate on McCain’s positives which is what I have spent the past few months trying to do because he was close to my last choice as a viable candidate against a Clinton or Obama. He’s now the only choice I have and he’s infinitely better than the alternatives on the other side. AJ forgets that just because some of us may have serious issues with McCain it doesn’t mean that we would sit back and watch idiots like Clinton or Obama win the Presidency.
And conservatives can all agree on one thing…The War on Terror… and that will be what gives McCain his best chance at becoming President.

Oregonguy,
I hope you’re right about being able to survive an Obama or Clinton. I’m not so sure. Just because you survived something once doesn’t guarantee a repeat performance.

For generations the liberals have chipped away at the very foundations of our Democracy. Then the conservatives rebuild it. It’s a repetative destroy/rebuild process. Eventually the foundation is going to give way and the process to rebuild will be more and more difficult.

I for one am not content to assume that we can continue surviving in that fashion, however I love the eloquence of your last paragraph and I hope that you are right.

Kathie:

When McCain says he will close Gitmo, he is talking about putting those men in a military prison. He is not talking about turning them lose, which is exactly what the Democrats will probably do.

I agree with AJ. The Democrats are both pushing federal health care insurance, which will undoubtedly end up going to illegals. Obama is talking about giving them drivers licenses and Hillary is not in the least afraid to claim she will NOT crack down on sanctuary cities. And yet so many on the right still bitch and moan and whine about McCain’s stand on this issue…as if they did not get their political asses handed to them every time they tried to make an issue of it.

Even in states where locals tried getting really tough they came to find out that some of these people actually bought gas and groceries and paid rent and just running them off was not the boon they thought it would be.

The American people want sensible long term solutions. They are tired of the ideologues.

But I think the thing that disgusts me the most is that Republicans and conservatives by and large supported the war on Terror. They supported sending those young people off to Iraq and Afghanistan to fight. Thousands of them will not be coming home. We owe those young people something, we should do our best to make sure that their sacrifices were not in vain.

If conservatives sit back and let Obama win, knowing full well he is dedicated to surrender…..just out of some political pique, then I am done with them.

LOL 75!

Dude, Hannity brought it up and I just shared how Rove handed him his head. I am not like Ingraham and Hannity and others who almost daily moan about McCain not being ‘a true conservative’. These people seem bent on creating a cult, not a political movement.

I am just observing their demise and posting it. Don’t blame the observer! And the side who cried “traitor”, etc against those who supported comprehensive immigration reform really have no room to tell the folks they slandered they need to get over it.

Sincere Mea Culpas from Amnesty Hypochondriacs and this rift can be healed. What so you?

what so you? => what SAY you?

See, it’s been the conservatives (not Rush) who threw down the gauntlet. They showed themselves NOT to be team players, imho. They force the “purity” wars. They said they are conservatives only, not republicans.

I AM conservative but I am also one who knows that this country cannot ever again endure Obama or clinton or ANY liberal democrat in the White House. We are still paying today for the carter administration, dearly paying. Everyone knows the differences that exist with McCain, no? I mean, they’ve been cussed and discussed MILLIONS of times on thousands of talk shows/blogs/sites. And every time now, that this negativity unleashes itself, it will cause many to “stay home” in November. Negativity can become dysfunctional which I think it has. Disagreeing is one thing, but a constant drumbeat of disagreement is something else altogether. It can become a power play. And it is a way to never get anything actually done because all the energy is spent on raising the negative.

As an irony, one of the things taught by the Industrial Areas Foundation is, that after an organizing event, the first thing discussed is what went RIGHT. Then, if there is time, things that can be improved are discussed. You would be amazed at how little time is ever spent on the latter. And the positives create more positives than any negatives could ever do. :)

Gee, it’s such a shame that not everyone is entitled to share their opinions without being called slanderers, hypochondriacs or dwelling in negativity. I thought this was a free country.

Once again, while I may agree with most of what you are saying it’s so interesting to see that when someone’s personal opinion is challenged they start calling others names and feel that that’s o.k. but don’t think the name calling on the other side is acceptable.

I haven’t seen the moderates say “my way or the highway”, is what I am saying. Sharing an opinion is one thing. Constantly looking for the negative is another thing.

On many occasions it has appeared that some conservative pundits have become the same coin as the liberals, just the opposite side: moaning, groaning etc., not offering constructive solutions for everyone. And granted, when one believes strongly in something, one wants to fight to the death. I just think there is a balance that is needed. Let’s face it: factions are vying for the most power over the lawmakers. Nothing wrong with that….However the dems have taken ideology to a toxic level….don’t want to see conservatives do the same.

Sorry for the delayed posts fellow republicans, if that is truly what some of you claim to be. ;-) …I lost my internet for a large portion of the day and have been swamped here at work ever since.

AJ and Ive,

if what AJ says is true then why all the fuss? AJ thinks conservatives are marginalized and the country is bound and determined to move to the center. Given the Dems have opted for the radical left, then it should be a landslide victory for McCain. What are you all worried about? You don’t need the conservatives anyway if all this is true. They’re going to be there anyway but you have no reason to worry, right? The fact that you continue to bring up these tenets, “centrist trends”, “marginalized conservatives”, “negativity”, etc, only leads me to believe neither of you are very confident in our candidate.

Whippet:

I do not care about their opinions. What pisses me off is people saying that if they do not get what they want, they will bail out. And yet these same people would damn well expect the rest of us to go along with them. In other words, if Romney had got the nomination, I would have voted for him. I would not have attacked him, called him names, tried to undercut him or threatened to stay home because people had the temerity to let him get the nomination.

75:

No one is saying they do not need the conservatives, what they are saying is that the conservatives need the Republican party. It is supposed to work both ways.

You are saying the rest of us are just supposed to vote for people who can not possibly win a general election, not because we think that person is the right person, but because we don’t want the conservatives to sit home and pout.

Well conservatives might want to think about the fact that there are more centrists in this country than there are hard core conservatives and if the right forces the party to make a choice, they might not like the way it all works out.

Terrye, you hit the nail on the head.

Terrye,

AJ has said many times that the conservatives aren’t needed.

If it ” pisses me off is people saying that if they do not get what they want, they will bail out.” then you must be pretty pissed at yourself. What do you think all of you former Dems did to your own party?
I know, you’ll all try and say that they left you…yeah right.

You say that McCain is the right person. I’m happy you have found your candidate. Just because he isn’t the one for others doesn’t make them whiney spoiled voters. It makes them unhappy with the candidate.

All you moderates sound like Dems to me…Do as I say not as I do…
You call those who disagree with you names just as those you are criticizing for calling names. It’s called hypocrisy. You just don’t see it as the same because you are passionatley supporting your candidate and your position. I say go for it…it’s your right and I’m all for it even if I disagree with you. But while you accuse others of alienating potential voters while you are using the same tactics that also alienate you need to be aware that the same risks are present. And as a conservative who was fed up with the Malkins and Coulters I came here for something different and have found the same.

Ivehadit,
I’ll agree with most everything you say but one thing…

“I haven’t seen the moderates say “my way or the highway””

That’s exactly what they did. Those who have left their respective party and become independents are now screaming from never-never land for power and influence and attacking both sides for not seeing things their way. They took their votes and said “now we’ll see who deserves my vote.” And the moderates still within each party are threatening to leave if they don’t get their way. And I’m not even saying that they were wrong in doing so…I’m just pointing out their hypocrisy.

Whippet:
Did I say McCain was the “right person”?
I said McCain was the nominee. That is what I said. He won fair and square. In truth I liked Giulliani better, but when he lost I did not pout and cry and act like a child. I accepted the will of the People. Remember them?

And whippet, the problem with some folks on the right is that they can dish it out, but they can not take it. The same is true with the left. Do I sound like a Democrat? Well guess what, if Republicans do not stop acting like sore losers and get behind their nominee you will find out what a Democrat super majority is really like.

And then McCain might not seem like such a bad deal after all. Too late of course.

I mean really if there are so damn many hard core conservatives in the Republican party and if McCain is such a bad pick, how did he win? Why did all those Republicans vote for him?

Terrye,
See, this is what I mean…you totally missed the point because to see it would be to accept some responsibility for where we are at this point.

What I meant by the “right person” is the right person now…you know the only one left that you feel you could vote for? And he is the right person of those who are left…but in my opinion and that of many others he is not the right person for the job. Some of us are having to settle for John McCain. Excuse me for being unhappy about that. To listen to all of you I should keep my mouth shut and go happily on down the road. Sorry, I will vote for him but I don’t have to like it and I certainly won’t sit idly by when I disagree with him and neither would you.

Oh, I see… some on the right can dish it out but can’t take it… Yeah, you do sound like a Democrat! Classic Dem attribute..”.I can say what I want and do what I want because I’m right..I’m not whining…I’m right! I’m not pouting…I’m right! The names I call you are right…because I’m right! And don’t you dare question me…because I’m right! And you’re not right, you’re just a whiney, pouting, unhappy conservative…and I’m right! ” Geez, old habits die hard.

Whippet:

You say I sound like a Democrat but I will not be voting for one this November, nor will I be sitting home and helping one win. But if I am to believe some of the stuff I hear a lot of “loyal” conservatives will. That is what I mean when I say they can dish it out but they can not take it. They can call the president Jorge but they can not stand it when someone is less than respectful to them. So spare me the indignation.

And as for McCain being the right person, I guess it depends on how you look at it. To many conservatives seem to think the right person is whoever they want and only he {whoever that might be} will do.

There are other people who would say the right person is the person who won the nomination. He might not have been their first pick, but most grownups realize that if they don’t go along with the process…then the next time when someone they like better does win…the other members of the coalition might not accept them either. And where does that leave a political party?

I just think some folks out there need to grow up.

Terrye,
Spare ME the indignation…exactly which political party was it that you left when you didn’t get your way? Rather inconvenient point isn’t it?

What would you do if your choices in November were Hillary or Obama? No McCain…no one else. Would you go pull that lever for one or the other as the lesser of 2 evils? Or are they so ideologically different from you that you wouldn’t support them with a vote? Or would you sell your beliefs and hope that the country isn’t destroyed in the process?

Now, I agree that there are huge differences between McCain and a Clinton or an Obama which is why I will vote for McCain as will most conservatives. But if the candidate held a vastly different view than mine and I could find no issue which I could support…I don’t know what I would do and I suspect you wouldn’t know either.

You have such distaste for conservatives in general that you can’t see the forest through the trees. Most conservatives have already resigned themselves to voting for McCain. You just don’t seem to get that you can dislike them, disagree with them and publicly question them and still vote for them. It’s called freedom of speech.

“I mean really if there are so damn many hard core conservatives in the Republican party and if McCain is such a bad pick, how did he win? Why did all those Republicans vote for him?”

Are you positive those were all Republicans voting for him or actually people who wanted him as the nominee on purely ideological grounds? Kind of like all those Republicans out there crossing over and voting for Hillary because they want her to be the nominee? If you do you need to wise up. Politics is nasty.

McCain was seen by the Dems as the easiest candidate to beat. The liberals had their own little “Operation Chaos” going on when the Republicans had so many candidates trying to get the nomination. And they were right…let’s just hope that while he may be the easiest of the former candidates to beat he still won’t be as easy to beat as Clinton or Obama…or the entire world is screwed. You can blame the hard core conservatives all you want, but you “centrists” got exactly what you have wanted… a “centrist” candidate. If you lose you’ll blame conservatives…when the fault is your own.

Whippet:

That is not true, McCain has always been seen by the Democrats as the most difficult candidate to beat because he can appeal to more moderates. And McCain won in closed primaries too. BTW, if any other candidate had strong support he could easily have beaten McCain.

You are kidding yourself if you think Democrats picked McCain, in fact in polls of Republicans McCain had more support than any other Republican running. And in national polls Romney could only get about 29% support among the general electorate.

But I see what the tact will be here. Conservatives will say the same thing Democrats said in 2000 when Bush won. They will say they were robbed.

Sore losers.

and btw Operation Chaos has not exactly won Hillary the nomination has it? Truth is Hillary has strong support among traditional Democrats, it is swing voters and new voters who are carrying Obama..together with 90% of the black vote.

yes,politics is nasty and McCain is an old hand it. He is a survivor and he knows what he is doing.

BTW, if the choice was Hillary and Obama and no one else…. I would vote for Hillary. Obama scares me.

And I do not have distaste for conservatives in general whippet. Just the ones who would abandon the war on Terror.

I think the question you need to be asking whippet is why these socalled conservatives would abandon the war on Terror and let a Marxist win the White House rather than vote for a Republican that they think is too moderate.

It is called biting off your nose to spite your face. So don’t lecture me.

As for what party I left, what do you care? I thought we were all entitled to vote or not vote for who we wanted.

I think that Republicans can be both moderate and conservative, with most leaning conservative. I think they would prefer a center right president, leaning right. But I also think that most Republicans want to win, especially now and they recognize that McCain is their best bet to do that right now.

And no I do not think that a lot of Democrats were voting in the Republican primary because they had their own primary to vote in and it was much too hot a race for them to ignore. After all, they won’t let you vote in both. And look at the numbers of people who turned out to vote in those Democratic primaries. They were not sitting them out so that they could vote for McCain and piss off some Republicans.

McCain was most feared by most Dems. The Dems can’t compete with his biography.

I don’t buy the sub labels of conservatives. We just prioritize the issues differently. So, I consider McCain a conservative, same as Bush and Reagan . I disagree with him on campaign finance “reform”, but agree on enough other issues.

It would be national suicide to elect “Marxist”, demagogue O’Bama or corrupt Clinton.

Terrye,
McCain is the only bet left to do that right now…and they will vote for him. Let’s all pray that he’s enough.

If you don’t think dems weren’t voting for McCain to stir up the Republican Party than you are naive. I believe Daily Kos was the first to call the “rank and file” to action. And they follow him like lambs to the slaughter.

And I do not believe for one minute that McCain was who the left feared most especially because of his biography. The left believes that this country wants to end this war now at any cost. They believe that the country hates President Bush, and the troops and all that America stands for. McCain’s biography is an asset to them (so they think). But it is the one thing McCain has that will bond conservatives and right leaning moderates. The Dems have never been known to be very bright…but that’s because they think they are the only ones who are right. They are so right (in their minds) that just watch what they will do to McCain…with the aid of the MSM. It’s going to be a bloodbath. Let’s hope he can overcome it.

McCain is not a military genius who is going to be rolling out maps of Iraq and Afghanistan and personally moving troops like a chess match with brilliance. The difference between McCain and Obama on Iraq is rhetoric. Both understand the dangers of a rapid withdrawal and the objectives for success. They may have slightly different ideas about what success is but the reality is these are wars that can’t be officially won. From that point of view, rhetoric aside, their positions are very similar.

My current biggest concerns are taxes, energy independence, illegal immigration, and character and leadership. McCain has been quite irritating on the first three. Obama on taxes is outrageous! On alternative energy they are the same. Obama, personally shows more leadership ability and is a far better communicator, charismatic, etc. Both are calculating politicians, however.

Overall McCain is getting my vote. I don’t want the dems with a full power… Whether he will win… I put my bets on Obama. That is because I think you’re right the country is moving center-left giving Obama the advantage.

Terrye,

“You are kidding yourself if you think Democrats picked McCain, in fact in polls of Republicans McCain had more support than any other Republican running. And in national polls Romney could only get about 29% support among the general electorate.

But I see what the tact will be here. Conservatives will say the same thing Democrats said in 2000 when Bush won. They will say they were robbed.

Sore losers.”

Go back and look at it again Terrye…or have you forgotten how many candidates were attempting to get the Republican nomination?
After they were all gone and McCain had it sewed up it still took him quite a while to even gain over 49% of the votes in the next primaries. All this time later and there’s still little excitement for his candidacy…that won’t change much.

Conservatives will say they were robbed? That’s the funniest thing I’ve heard all day! You obviously don’t know many conservatives do you? Playing the victim card comes from your former party…not mine. Victims never take responsibility for their actions……..

And Hillary scares me as much as Obama….Andif you would take the hypothetical choice and vote for her then you would be abandoning the War on Terror, wouldn’t you? How’s it feel when the shoe is on the other foot?

Terrye,

“As for what party I left, what do you care? I thought we were all entitled to vote or not vote for who we wanted.”

Left by Terrye on May 9th, 2008

Now do you get it? You just made my point only you’re still too blind to see it.

McCain is going to get clobbered. Obama has a rally and thousands show up, old young, white black. McCain has a rally and there are about fifty old white people standing around. The dems are getting about twice as many people voting in the primaries than the pubs. The war on terror could hurt McCain as much as it can help him because the public wants it wrapped up soon and McCain hasn’t really shown he would do that. Obama is just like Bill Clinton, a lying SOB with a lot of charisma. That’s about all dems need to vote for someone. McCain on the other hand, is an ill-tempered OOOOLLLLLDDDD man. He is lousy on his feet in a debate. When him and Obama debate, McCain will spew what he has rehearsed and Obama will say nothing with eloquence. And all the retards in the press will talk about how smooth Obama was and the retards watching will believe it. McCain has already shown that he will continue to stick his finger in the eye of his conservative base. Things like having Juan Hernandez on his staff, meeting with La Raza,(read racist mexican bastards), having a hispanic language website, going for the global warming hoax, and a number of other little tidbits show that he does not think he needs the conservative base to win. HE IS WRONG! He cannot win without a strong showing of the conservatives and he is not even getting all of their votes when he is ALLREADY GOT THE NOMINATION! The last two primaries showed about a quarter of the people voting for someone else even though it won’t make any difference. Some of the polls have him losing to Obama and the contest between him and Obama hasn’t even started yet. The very groups he is dumping conservatives to court, hispanics and independants, are going to be leaning democrat like they always do. People are fed up with the Bush adminisration, they see an economy where gas has gone up a buck a gallon in seven months, and a housing situation that looks dim to say the least. Whether it is true or not, there is a common feeling among the lower income people that the Bush admin has botched it with the economy, and a lot of those people are dems and independants. They want a change, as stupid as that is if you don’t say what the change is going to be.

Wake up and smell the coffee. The dems succeeded with the help of the ‘independants’ and ‘moderates’ (dem lites) in foisting this candidate upon the GOP. He is going to get beat like an ugly stepchild.

Oh, and Terrye, you said you’re not voting for a dem this election? Lets see, you have two running with that party and another who has threatened to jump to that side twice. Either way, dems win in 2008,

B Ken,
You accurately describe O’bama and his fans. And McCain’s age is a factor, but so was Reagan’s.

I doubt all the mobs rallying to O’bama will vote. O’bama is vacuous and it will show in the debates. McCain knows a lot of stuff and it will also show.

As for his “ill temper” and unpredictability, both O’bama and the terrorists had better beware.

Bikerken,
But don’t you know it’s those independents and moderates who are going to save the Party? Which party I’m not sure, but neither I suspect. They’re the saviors of the world!!! Only the centrists have the answers! (sarc)

If the past is any indication of the future…they’ve already deserted one party and left it to fester and rot with the radicals of the left…and now they’ve moved on to the right…gee…I wonder what happens next?

It must be tough to compromise your principals away to sit on the fence in the middle hoping for a power play to come your way. They talk a big game, unless of course it comes to issues near and dear to their heart…can’t compromise there…just on “your” issues. They’ve got their “centrist” man now…they’re just afraid to own him. But they’re more than willing to set up the scenario already that if he loses they’re not to blame…it’s the conservatives fault.

The media will make Obama appear like the second coming and McCain look like a bumbling idiot.

And they’ll use McCain’s own words to do it.

People loved Reagan Mack. McCains Campaign slogan could be, I’m not as crappy a choice as the other guy. That’s not going to inspire conservatives to go to the polls. As for Obama’s fans not showing up, you could be right, but the fact is, if only half of them do, Juan is still in trouble. Sad fact: not all voters are that smart. McCain’s debate problem is that he doesn’t seem to think on his feet well. All he does is repeat what he’s been programed to say and it sounds like it. As for scaring terrorists, he plans on doing the one thing that could hamstring the war on terror like nothing else. He believes terrorists are eligible for Geneva convention rights. I heard him say that on O’Reilly tonight. O’Reilly challenged him saying that non-uniformed combatants did not fall under the Geneva convention. McCain’s response was to say that the Geneva Convention did specify the treatment of illegal combatants but he did not specify what that was. In the Geneva convention, non-uniformed combatants can be shot. They do not have the same rights as uniformed soldiers but McCain wouldn’t acknowledge that.

John McCain is trying to be all things to all people. He thinks he has the right in his pocket and he is pandering to the left like all hell trying to get the dem vote. He is going to fail miserably because it’s obvious he doesn’t stand for anything but whatever will get him elected. He is not like, believed or honest. He’s gonna make Mondale look good.

By the way, a centrist is a person who, believing they are better than both sides, is not willing to pick a team, stands in the middle and gets it from both sides, then crows about their loyalty to themselves.

Whippet:

Oh Please, if there was some conservative Idol out there who was going to save us all, where was he and where were the hordes of conservatives voting for him? A few Democrats could not overwhelm a lot of Republicans in their own primaries. For heavens sake, the closest to McCain in the primaries was Huckabee and the pundits and bloggers and self styled leaders of the conservative movement hated him as much as they did McCAin. So do not talk to me about naive. I am not the one who is in denial here.

I remember Reagan, I was on the farm back then. I remember the real amnesty vote, I remember he promised to shut down the Dept. of Education and did not, I remember he raised payroll taxes on Social Security. I can also remember Iran/Contra and the crash of the stock market and the farm crisis. I do not remember the man that so many on the right have invented to take the place of the real Reagan.

Reagan was human, just like Bush and McCAin. And lucky for him there was not a big talk radio contingent back then and the internet did not exist. Otherwise Novak might be calling him a “failed” president like he does Bush. Noonan might claim he has destroyed the party, like she says Bush did. And someone like Malkin might say he is the first Mexican president of the United States for signing an amnesty deal.

The biggest change over the years, has not been in the leaders, it has been in the pary itself. Back then they did some whining but they were not so adept at eating their own.

So now, the whining will be transferred from Bush onto McCain and we can listen to the same crap, different president. With friends like this, Republican presidents do not need enemies.

After all, the last time the conservatives got a real conservative in the White House was Bush and then they worked side by side with the Democrats to help wreck the man. Into his second term they announced that he was not a REAL conservative and that was that.

Maybe those primaries voters decided there was just no pleasing some people and decided it was time to try something different. Whatever the case, it is not McCAin’s fault or the Democrats’ fault if the GOP could not field a candidate that their people were not madly in love with.

And if I remember correctly Kos was telling people to cross over in Michigan because the Democrats were not going to be counting their primary there…and McCain lost that primary.

Terrye, for all your caterwalling, you fail to address this one hugh point, people DON”T LIKE MCCAIN!!!! From EITHER party! You can delude yourself by thinking they will hate the other guy more, but if that’s all you got to go on in a presidential election, you are in serious trouble!

The reason Mcnasty got the nomination is because the pro-amensty junta in the GOP manuevered the liberal open primary states up front to make it hard for a real conservative to win. That’s a fact Terrye! Look it up! And as far as voting for McCain, he got a pitiful small percentage of the vote, he was just lucky because most people split their vote for one of his four contenders and that weakened them.

And by the way Terrye, the way that you talk about Reagan reveals who you really are, you are a liberal dem thru and thru! Reagan only went along with the amnesty deal because democrats promised they would seal the border and they did what democrats do, they lied! And the economy was in hell before he came into office and it was in heaven when he left! You don’t remember that? I do! And also Terrye, when Reagan was in office, the percentage of illegals in the US of the total population was about less than one percent. Now it is over ten percent and growing. It’s a whole different situation but you are still in denial that it is a hugh problem! You don’t have the smarts that god gave a duck!

It is obvious to me that you and AJ and all your pro-illegal buddies on this site don’t have one god damned bit of concern for this country! All you seem to be bent on is importing tens of millions more mexicans into this country for whatever reason you have and you aren’t really that subtle about it! I don’t give a damn why you want to do that, all I know is that it is the most destructive thing that is ever going to happen to this country. We are devolvling into a third world state. You may not see that from your country club or gated community yet, I don’t even think you care. You are leftists. Leftists don’t love America for what it is, they think of what they want to turn it into.

How stupid it is for people not to understand that if millions of mexicans are leaving mexico and coming here, that we are going to become more like mexico. DO YOU GET THAT TERRYE??? Yet all you and AJ do is bitch about the fact that there are so many of us who are opposed to that!

Bush was not the last conservative in the White House, Reagan was! Even Bush Sr. was not that conservative and that’s why he lost! Noonan was right, Bush Jr. did destroy the party and he should rot in hell for it! McCain is worse. Has it ever occured to you that the only people you read about supporting him enthusiastically are former or present dems plus a few gutless weasels who call themselves centrists? He is going to get whipped like cream! And thank you idiotic moderates and libs for that! Personnaly, I don’t really think Obama or Hill could do more damage to the country than Juan. He is a senile idiot. But the congress is much more likely to challenge the dems.

With the rise of the internet and talk radio, there are many who will exploit emotions for their ratings. Not saying ALL are doing this, just some.

There are only two candidates: McCain and Obama. One is INFINITELY worse for America than the other. That one is the most liberal senator in the senate. That one has friends in places that DO NOT LIKE AMERICANS. They want to take you money and your lifestyle and make you suffer as they have suffered (their perception). The day will be rued that this is allowed to happen. These people are the antithesis of what makes America great.

If one calls staying at home acceptable, knowing the above, then I say one is the same as the above: America-haters. And believe me, there are many who, in their resentment, want Americans to suffer.
They won’t do things to make THEIR lives better, they just want to take away from those who are happy and successful. They are called covert hostiles. And in the work force, consultants advise that they be fired immediately. They will never change or are interested in changing.

Misery loves miserable company. THIS is what is being exploited by many, many pundits today…and politicians.

This campaign year will NOT be about substance. It will be about STYLE., NOT because we have made it so, HOLLYWOOD, the media and the democrats have crafted a guy who is nothing but style. But they know that is what motivates many Americans today. Do not blame McCain. He HAS to do things to win that battle while keeping his integrity.

Conservativs can stop debating ideas (we all know what the ideas are)and start debating HOW TO WIN. And that includes having the best answers to problems, but it will take MORE than that to win.

Terrye,

“After all, the last time the conservatives got a real conservative in the White House was Bush and then they worked side by side with the Democrats to help wreck the man. Into his second term they announced that he was not a REAL conservative and that was that.”

Spoken like a true moderate or should I say ex-dem. Of course Bush would seem conservative to someone who leans liberal…duh!

Don’t get me wrong…I love President Bush and have made that clear, however it isn’t because of his “conservativism.” While he certainly has some conservative principles he tends to drift toward moderate even though he is futher right than his father and much further right than McCain.

Bikerken,
I will say up front that I don’t agree with you entirely on President Bush. I happen to love the man for numerous reasons in spite of his moderate leanings not because of them.

But you hit the nail on the head with this one:

“By the way, a centrist is a person who, believing they are better than both sides, is not willing to pick a team, stands in the middle and gets it from both sides, then crows about their loyalty to themselves.”

Compromise is their favorite word. They’ve yet to find a principle they wouldn’t sell out to remain “in the middle.”

Ivehadit,
I agree with you that conservatives should suck it up and vote for McCain, however, it is their right to do otherwise.

According to you if the left votes for Obama then they’re America-haters and if the conservatives don’t vote they’re America-haters which of course puts you comfortably in the middle with your self-righteousness and the ability to blame everyone else if the results are disasterous. We’ve all got some blame in this one and it’s time everyone figure it out.

Conservatives will be voting for McCain. Why all you ‘centrists’ are so worried about conservatives is beyond me. They clearly understand McCain is better than Obama or Hillary. Your constant harping on it is an insult to their intelligence. Like Rush said thursday when a caller asked why Operation Chaos wasn’t behind McCain more he said, “because it isn’t time yet. We’re still in phase 1, dragging out the Democratic primary.” I think our “centrist” fence sitters should relax. You won’t need to worry until the media has settled on Obama and breaks out the torches to pursue the their only personal Frankenstein creation…John McCain. And that’ll be coming soon enough.

B Ken,
I agree with your analysis of the primaries. But,

I still think most conservatives can reach an agreement on immigration that is better than the Dems want.

I think conservatives agree on leaving a free and secure Iraq.

I think conservatives oppose Marxist solutions to domestic problems and disguised statism.

So, I think conservatives will mostly cooperate and avoid national suicide.

Macker,
I believe you’re right!

We better hope he’s right. And we better pray AJ is right because the last time the party tried the centrist route we got Bill Clinton and for two terms. In fact, we lose every time we go the moderate route. A more stubborn student would be hard to find.

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