May 08 2008
2008 – The Year Of The Centrists
As a conservative independent I of course like to view the world through my only lens of preferences, but I think it is safe to say I have my biases fairly well checked when I claim this year Americans are heading away from the hyper-partisan fringes, weary of nearly 3 decades of hyper-partisan rancor and dysfunctional zer-sum games. We see it playing out in the Democrat and Republican sides.
On the left we see the stronger general election candidate, Hillary Clinton, losing to the more liberal Obama. Clinton is much stronger against McCain, but she keeps losing ground to Obama the more her general election electability shows. The Democrat Party is being taken over by the far left which is itching to come out of the closet. That is why when Wright and Ayers come up it doesn’t hurt Obama in the primaries, just kills him for the general
It is also playing out on the right as the ‘true conservative” far right bemoans McCain’s positions and their 20-25% keep voting against him in GOP primaries. The problem is the GOP is tired of the self destructiveness of the far right who call people who disagree with the Quislings and Traitors (just ask anyone who support Comprehensive Immigration Reform why there will be no alliances with the hyper-right any more).
The most enjoyable example of this was on Sean Hannity’s radio show when he hosted “The Architect” Karl Rove. Hannity made the mistake of trying to paint McCain’s problems with the ‘true conservatives’ as a liability. His two examples were “The Gang of 14” and Comprehensive Immigration Reform (which I am glad to see McCain is bring back as part of his policy plans when elected), which McCain notes openly with well deserved pride. Hannity was not prepared to be ripped a new one by Rove who just destroyed Hannity’s far right biases against McCain.
On the Gang of 14 Rove noted that the compromise gave Democrats cover to allow numerous conservative federal judges to be seated as well as Roberts and Alito on the US SC. Rove noted that he had his doubts initially, but came to recognize the Gang of 14 was critical to the administration’s efforts to mold the judiciary in line with conservative, constructionist principles.
On immigration reform Rove really nailed Hannity and the “Amnesty Hypochondriacs”. Of course the word “Amnesty” was selected by the opponents of immigration reform because it was the root of their resistance – they did not want the 1 in 5 workers (Rove’s number) here illegally to get off with a fine, paying back taxes and proving they are free of violent crimes. This obsession with desiring much stronger actions than the law or America were prepared to invoke is why I call the “Amnesty Hypochondriacs”.
Besides pointing out to Hannity that 1 in 5 workers here are illegal and we cannot simply have them leave without killing our economy, he noted that Bush ended the 30 year long practice of catch-and-release, where illegals found on the border were given a date to be in court and then released, wherein they never showed up. Rove noted the last catch-and-release was in 2006, after Bush led the way in providing all sorts of resources for personnel and facilities required to end the practice.
Another point Rove hammered home is most people do not know that 1.3 million illegal aliens attempting to cross our borders were sent back home last year – a very, very impressive number which shows our borders ARE being strengthened. Nothing will be foolproof, but that is amazing progress the Amnesty Hypochondriacs dismiss out of fear that the day will come when we do deal with the long term illegals with less than deportation or coerced deportation. Oh well, those far right dreams will never happen.
Which brings me back to why McCain is doing so well right now. Every time Hannity or Ingraham or Malkin go ballistic because McCain is not conservative enough the provide McCain distance from the one association that would give him trouble in the general election. Obama has problems because of his new found ties to the radical left. McCain is gaining credibility with the continued flames from the far right (who are not radical like the left, just way out of the mainstream like the left).
I have seen attempts by the far left to tie McCain to folks on the far right – and it fails because everyone knows the far right is ready to sit out this election, especially if McCain keeps his pledge to implement comprehensive immigration reform. So while Obama can be attacked by his far left political associations (which avoids the backlash of attacking Obama directly), McCain cannot be tied to a group that cannot stop spouting off their dislike of the man.
And this is why I am fairly certain this year America is staying away from the hyper-partisans. All indications are McCain is perfectly set up to take advantage of this, and the far right is doing their part to help him. And all indications are Hillary is losing because of this, and Obama and his far left buddies are doing their part in hurting him more in the general election. Sweet.
BTW – just a reminder McCain was one of my last choices from the beginning and I posted on his weak support for the sanctity of life through his support of Embryonic Stem Cell Research, an issue I care very deeply about. So am by no means a McCainiac, but like most independence more pragmatic than driven to the political extremes on either side.
I haven’t seen the moderates say “my way or the highway”, is what I am saying. Sharing an opinion is one thing. Constantly looking for the negative is another thing.
On many occasions it has appeared that some conservative pundits have become the same coin as the liberals, just the opposite side: moaning, groaning etc., not offering constructive solutions for everyone. And granted, when one believes strongly in something, one wants to fight to the death. I just think there is a balance that is needed. Let’s face it: factions are vying for the most power over the lawmakers. Nothing wrong with that….However the dems have taken ideology to a toxic level….don’t want to see conservatives do the same.
Sorry for the delayed posts fellow republicans, if that is truly what some of you claim to be. ;-)…I lost my internet for a large portion of the day and have been swamped here at work ever since.
AJ and Ive,
if what AJ says is true then why all the fuss? AJ thinks conservatives are marginalized and the country is bound and determined to move to the center. Given the Dems have opted for the radical left, then it should be a landslide victory for McCain. What are you all worried about? You don’t need the conservatives anyway if all this is true. They’re going to be there anyway but you have no reason to worry, right? The fact that you continue to bring up these tenets, “centrist trends”, “marginalized conservatives”, “negativity”, etc, only leads me to believe neither of you are very confident in our candidate.
Whippet:
I do not care about their opinions. What pisses me off is people saying that if they do not get what they want, they will bail out. And yet these same people would damn well expect the rest of us to go along with them. In other words, if Romney had got the nomination, I would have voted for him. I would not have attacked him, called him names, tried to undercut him or threatened to stay home because people had the temerity to let him get the nomination.
75:
No one is saying they do not need the conservatives, what they are saying is that the conservatives need the Republican party. It is supposed to work both ways.
You are saying the rest of us are just supposed to vote for people who can not possibly win a general election, not because we think that person is the right person, but because we don’t want the conservatives to sit home and pout.
Well conservatives might want to think about the fact that there are more centrists in this country than there are hard core conservatives and if the right forces the party to make a choice, they might not like the way it all works out.
Terrye, you hit the nail on the head.
Terrye,
AJ has said many times that the conservatives aren’t needed.
If it ” pisses me off is people saying that if they do not get what they want, they will bail out.” then you must be pretty pissed at yourself. What do you think all of you former Dems did to your own party?
I know, you’ll all try and say that they left you…yeah right.
You say that McCain is the right person. I’m happy you have found your candidate. Just because he isn’t the one for others doesn’t make them whiney spoiled voters. It makes them unhappy with the candidate.
All you moderates sound like Dems to me…Do as I say not as I do…
You call those who disagree with you names just as those you are criticizing for calling names. It’s called hypocrisy. You just don’t see it as the same because you are passionatley supporting your candidate and your position. I say go for it…it’s your right and I’m all for it even if I disagree with you. But while you accuse others of alienating potential voters while you are using the same tactics that also alienate you need to be aware that the same risks are present. And as a conservative who was fed up with the Malkins and Coulters I came here for something different and have found the same.
Ivehadit,
I’ll agree with most everything you say but one thing…
“I haven’t seen the moderates say “my way or the highway—
That’s exactly what they did. Those who have left their respective party and become independents are now screaming from never-never land for power and influence and attacking both sides for not seeing things their way. They took their votes and said “now we’ll see who deserves my vote.” And the moderates still within each party are threatening to leave if they don’t get their way. And I’m not even saying that they were wrong in doing so…I’m just pointing out their hypocrisy.
Whippet:
Did I say McCain was the “right person”?
I said McCain was the nominee. That is what I said. He won fair and square. In truth I liked Giulliani better, but when he lost I did not pout and cry and act like a child. I accepted the will of the People. Remember them?
And whippet, the problem with some folks on the right is that they can dish it out, but they can not take it. The same is true with the left. Do I sound like a Democrat? Well guess what, if Republicans do not stop acting like sore losers and get behind their nominee you will find out what a Democrat super majority is really like.
And then McCain might not seem like such a bad deal after all. Too late of course.
I mean really if there are so damn many hard core conservatives in the Republican party and if McCain is such a bad pick, how did he win? Why did all those Republicans vote for him?
Terrye,
See, this is what I mean…you totally missed the point because to see it would be to accept some responsibility for where we are at this point.
What I meant by the “right person” is the right person now…you know the only one left that you feel you could vote for? And he is the right person of those who are left…but in my opinion and that of many others he is not the right person for the job. Some of us are having to settle for John McCain. Excuse me for being unhappy about that. To listen to all of you I should keep my mouth shut and go happily on down the road. Sorry, I will vote for him but I don’t have to like it and I certainly won’t sit idly by when I disagree with him and neither would you.
Oh, I see… some on the right can dish it out but can’t take it… Yeah, you do sound like a Democrat! Classic Dem attribute..”.I can say what I want and do what I want because I’m right..I’m not whining…I’m right! I’m not pouting…I’m right! The names I call you are right…because I’m right! And don’t you dare question me…because I’m right! And you’re not right, you’re just a whiney, pouting, unhappy conservative…and I’m right! ” Geez, old habits die hard.
Whippet:
You say I sound like a Democrat but I will not be voting for one this November, nor will I be sitting home and helping one win. But if I am to believe some of the stuff I hear a lot of “loyal” conservatives will. That is what I mean when I say they can dish it out but they can not take it. They can call the president Jorge but they can not stand it when someone is less than respectful to them. So spare me the indignation.
And as for McCain being the right person, I guess it depends on how you look at it. To many conservatives seem to think the right person is whoever they want and only he {whoever that might be} will do.
There are other people who would say the right person is the person who won the nomination. He might not have been their first pick, but most grownups realize that if they don’t go along with the process…then the next time when someone they like better does win…the other members of the coalition might not accept them either. And where does that leave a political party?
I just think some folks out there need to grow up.
Terrye,
Spare ME the indignation…exactly which political party was it that you left when you didn’t get your way? Rather inconvenient point isn’t it?
What would you do if your choices in November were Hillary or Obama? No McCain…no one else. Would you go pull that lever for one or the other as the lesser of 2 evils? Or are they so ideologically different from you that you wouldn’t support them with a vote? Or would you sell your beliefs and hope that the country isn’t destroyed in the process?
Now, I agree that there are huge differences between McCain and a Clinton or an Obama which is why I will vote for McCain as will most conservatives. But if the candidate held a vastly different view than mine and I could find no issue which I could support…I don’t know what I would do and I suspect you wouldn’t know either.
You have such distaste for conservatives in general that you can’t see the forest through the trees. Most conservatives have already resigned themselves to voting for McCain. You just don’t seem to get that you can dislike them, disagree with them and publicly question them and still vote for them. It’s called freedom of speech.
“I mean really if there are so damn many hard core conservatives in the Republican party and if McCain is such a bad pick, how did he win? Why did all those Republicans vote for him?”
Are you positive those were all Republicans voting for him or actually people who wanted him as the nominee on purely ideological grounds? Kind of like all those Republicans out there crossing over and voting for Hillary because they want her to be the nominee? If you do you need to wise up. Politics is nasty.
McCain was seen by the Dems as the easiest candidate to beat. The liberals had their own little “Operation Chaos” going on when the Republicans had so many candidates trying to get the nomination. And they were right…let’s just hope that while he may be the easiest of the former candidates to beat he still won’t be as easy to beat as Clinton or Obama…or the entire world is screwed. You can blame the hard core conservatives all you want, but you “centrists” got exactly what you have wanted… a “centrist” candidate. If you lose you’ll blame conservatives…when the fault is your own.
Whippet:
That is not true, McCain has always been seen by the Democrats as the most difficult candidate to beat because he can appeal to more moderates. And McCain won in closed primaries too. BTW, if any other candidate had strong support he could easily have beaten McCain.
You are kidding yourself if you think Democrats picked McCain, in fact in polls of Republicans McCain had more support than any other Republican running. And in national polls Romney could only get about 29% support among the general electorate.
But I see what the tact will be here. Conservatives will say the same thing Democrats said in 2000 when Bush won. They will say they were robbed.
Sore losers.
and btw Operation Chaos has not exactly won Hillary the nomination has it? Truth is Hillary has strong support among traditional Democrats, it is swing voters and new voters who are carrying Obama..together with 90% of the black vote.
yes,politics is nasty and McCain is an old hand it. He is a survivor and he knows what he is doing.
BTW, if the choice was Hillary and Obama and no one else…. I would vote for Hillary. Obama scares me.
And I do not have distaste for conservatives in general whippet. Just the ones who would abandon the war on Terror.
I think the question you need to be asking whippet is why these socalled conservatives would abandon the war on Terror and let a Marxist win the White House rather than vote for a Republican that they think is too moderate.
It is called biting off your nose to spite your face. So don’t lecture me.
As for what party I left, what do you care? I thought we were all entitled to vote or not vote for who we wanted.