May 16 2008
Conservatives Being Wooed By Both Parties, More Opportunities For Progress
Glenn Reynolds asks an interesting question today:
SO IF THE REPUBLICANS ARE IN TROUBLE, WHY ARE THESE PEOPLE SO HAPPY? I’m at the NRA Convention in Louisville, Kentucky. I haven’t been to a big gun event in probably a decade, and the change in mood is striking: People are, well . . . not ebullient, really, but noticeably cheerful and confident. The defensive crouch of a decade ago is gone. Will that change if the Democrats take the White House?
They don’t seem to think so here. Ten years ago, gun rights were under siege. Now the two Democratic presidential candidates are bending over backward to try to paint themselves as pro-gun. It’s a lie, of course. But it’s a lie that shows where the political balance of power, er, lies on this issue. The Democrats are electing new members of Congress, too — but, again, they’re running as pro-gun. People here, I think, feel like they’ve got the momentum regardless of what happens in November.
They are happy Conservatives (and I mean the broader, more diverse, more pragmatic conservatives – not those ‘true’ conservatives who denounce compromise with the democrats, let alone voting for them) because they have choices. They are being wooed by the Democrats and GOP. And as has been shown in the Special Elections this year they are voting for Dems over the GOP in heavily conservative GOP districts.
While the ‘true’ conservatives (who come to this site and claim I am left of Hillary Clinton and a closet Democrat – supposedly as a way to woo my support!) have destroyed the GOP lock on conservatives. They chased those who believe in conservative issues – AND believe you can progress them through reasonable compromise with dems – out of the GOP. No compromise! The far right can deny this all day long, but it won’t change the reality. The GOP told the moderates there was no more common ground and called them traitors for defying the will of ‘true’ conservatives on issues such as comprehensive immigration reform.
Those nasty one-time GOP voters who would talk to dems, work with dems, compromise with dems and now – yes – vote for dems are by definition not ‘true’ conservatives. They were the cancer that had to be purged from the GOP and the right. They had become traitors to ‘the cause’. Of course these nasty people are the moderate, psuedoconservative, independent … whatever name the far right uses to try and shore up their own superior conservative ideology.
So how is it these happy centrists, being wooed by left and right, are taken as both evil and desired? I have seen all sorts of warped logic from the far right on how the moderates have destroyed the party. But it is these very moderate voters the far right needs to get back in order to win elections. Yet all they do is insult them for being so, well, moderate! (side note: I love my typos some days. My latest was “far fright” for “far right”. How ironically true was that one!).
Why are conservatives happy – they are no longer tied to one party which can take them for granted – to the point they can insult their beliefs and still expect their vote each fall. Well the last laugh is on the ones not smiling, the ones looking shell-shocked and scared because they realized they told their constituents their views were not wanted or respected. Guess what, those happy moderate conservatives now have choices because more than one party is wooing them. Well, actually only one party is wooing them now, their old party just can’t seem to find one nice thing to say about them and their ilk. Duh!
Addendum: Just finished reading Peggy Noonan stab Bush and our troops in the back again. Sshe now seems to claim we needed to surrender and run, since that would ‘break with the administration’ position to stay and win. Same old pretzel logic: ‘the GOP is not far enough to the right’, which is why the voters are electing conservatives that are to the left of center (Blue Dog Democrats). ‘The GOP is not far enough to the right’, which is why GOP voters selected McCain over a sea of far right candidates. ‘The GOP is too soft on immigration’, which is why voters in the GOP and in general elections have dumped all the hard liners out of office.
The far right talks of rebuilding by becoming more of what the voters are rejecting – call me naive but if the voters don’t like it, more of the same won’t help change their minds. What the GOP needs is to stop tearing itself apart like Noonan does. Right now no sane person would trust her to stand by them when the going got tough. She runs away saying “its all their fault!”. Yeah, if this is showing the voters what a true conservative is I am sure the voters are paying attention and taking notes. Amazing to watch a party devour itself like this.
Before the far right crap hits the comment section here note I have no plans or desires to vote democrat right now. I don’t trust them to do good under their liberal party masters.
I am not happy the far right has poisoned the conservative movement so badly they have shooed a good chunk of the coalition into the hands of the dems. I am just noting – again – the results of the purity wars.
I predicted this, I did not prefer or want this. It is like knowing a cancer is going to take someone you know and care for. Realizing the reality is not a preference for the reality – as too many from the far fright assume when they come here to insult moderates.
They were wrong and all indications are I was right. It could have been otherwise, but it required respect and self control from a segment of the right not known for either characteristic. Which is why I made the prediction I did. Not because I want or need to be right, but because the far right needed to be right so badly they would do anything, including destroying the GOP, to prove it.
Ugh! Well, we all know how that worked out.
So tell me how do conservative Democrats vote…….in lock step with Nancy Pelosi. So what difference does it make if they are progressive or conservative, they vote with the party. They say one thing to get elected and then they fall in line with the party. Party does matter!
So tell me how do conservative Democrats vote…….in lock step with Nancy Pelosi. So what difference does it make if they are progressive or conservative, they vote with the party. They say one thing to get elected and then they fall in line with the party. Party does matter!
Did I read that right? Conservatives are happy because they are no longer tied to one party?
AJ, you’ve lost it.
No, you read that right. That is what Glenn Reynolds concluded.
And no, I have not lost it – the GOP and far right lost it, years ago. Which is why they are being shut out by the voters.
Kathie,
Blue Dogs have liberal collars tied around their necks, for sure. But we have seen the Blue Dogs break ranks and keep the war effort going, etc. The liberals don’t have carte blanche and the GOP, it if plays it right, can peal off the conservative dems on some key issues.
How do you think it was done prior to the 1994 revolution??
As I said, I prefer the GOP in control. But as long as the far right insults people they need to vote with them we are stuck in the minority. When the far right gets its sanity back things will change – not before then. They will probably get worse as the right goes further over the cliff.
AJ, why would the far left, and a centrist republican be courting conservatives if such far right insulters have been shut out by the voters? Seems to me that if what you are claiming is true, our candidates would be avoiding the far right like the plague!? And just how many non-conservatives do you think are at an NRA convention, anyway?
You’ve got it completely backwards, AJ. McCain brings absolutely no confidence to the electorate. He desperately needs the right and knows it. And the left desperately needs sane Democrats they can pawn off to the public as the face of their party.
Hard to believe a guy as presumably smart as you can be getting this wrong.
LOL!
Really 75? Is it harder to believe I am getting it wrong than you getting it wrong?
Wheren’t you predicting a Tancredo rush of support for the far right? Did you expect McCain to beat all those more conservative candidates? I didn’t!
I rightfully admit I could be wrong. Despite what you may think, I am not that arrogant but I DO have the results of several past elections to fall back on for my evidence…what do you have besides trying to spin happy NRA conventioneers? Which, by the way Dude, was really a desperate attempt by you. Are you going to be spinning every attempt to woo conservatives now as proof conservatives are marginalized?
And what makes you think I supported Tancredo?
This one is for AJ:
Shaken Republicans look to McCain as savior
May 15 03:34 AM US/Eastern
Soul searching Republicans are turning to an unlikely savior, one-time party heretic and now presumptive White House nominee John McCain, as they try to stave off an electoral disaster.
Stung by the Democratic seizure of three staunch conservative seats in Congress, Republican lawmakers fear a shellacking in November’s general election, after losing control of both chambers of Congress in 2006.
The rise of McCain as their champion is not without irony, since the 71-year-old Arizona senator has quarreled with his own party for years on issues as diverse as immigration, campaign finance reform and global warming.
But it is precisely that independent streak that is drawing Republicans to his coattails, hoping he can cleanse them of the stain of gridlocked Washington.
Eric Cantor, Republican chief deputy whip in the House of Representatives, told reporters that the McCain brand was healthier than that of his party.
“John McCain is a demonstrated vote getter among independents, and his message and what he will be able to do in this election is extremely important.”
House Republican minority leader John Boehner told Fox News that with McCain at the top of the ticket, his demoralized party might spring a surprise in November.
“I think that we’re going to do a lot better than people think,” Boehner said.
“John McCain appeals to almost all Republicans. He also appeals to a wide array of independents and conservative Democrats.”
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=080515073312.w25iyzae&show_article=10
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And, this one is for the rest:
Traditionalism Rocks, Neo-liberalism Fails Again
The Left loves to hate Karl Rove. But like him, or not – he does know politics, almost as much as Barone knows election demographics. I pointed this out in post or comment yesterday.
“Republicans received a hard shot in Mississippi. Greg Davis (for whom I campaigned and who was a well-qualified candidate) narrowly lost a special congressional election in a district President George W. Bush carried four years ago with 62% of the vote. Democrats pulled off the win by smartly nominating a conservative, Travis Childers, from a rural swing part of the district who disavowed Barack Obama and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and hit Mr. Davis from the right.”
http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2008/05/traditionalism.html
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I’ve said enough about my own views….so won’t get repetative on you guys……except to ad this:
If the GOP thinks their problems are about Bush or McCain…..they will never fix the real problem.
I had another thought, also:
It could just be that conservatives are happy with the conservative politicians/agenda and liberals are happy with the liberal politicians/agenda……and, that this is about independents who don’t have a party.
Maybe the Independents have looked at the future of the Dem party and future of the Repub party in Presidential politics and decided to make the Repub party their home by launching a centrist Repub to the top of the ticket (Independents made McCain the nominee). Maybe Independents looked at Hillary/Obama and simply decided there was no one in the Dem party they could even remotely support??
Who knows? Really…..who knows?
But, local elections are not mirroring the Presidential election. I think Republicans would be wrong to think so.
Conservatives voting for dems in special elections? Really?
I guess that depends on what your definition of conservatives is.
Good insight, Frogg but I would caution you on one point. Don’t get too caught up in the power of independents behind McCain’s nomination. McCain’s popularity didn’t take off until the media pushed him hard before the New Hampshire primary, a primary that Democrats overwhelmingly entered as “independents”. McCain only got his boost because of three things;
1 .the media
2. Dems
3. and a weak slate of conservatives.
He’s the “safe” candidate in the GOP’s eyes and nothing more because the GOP always rejects it’s conservative base and wrongfully assumes centrism is the future.
Good insight, Frogg but I would caution you on one point. Don’t get too caught up in the power of independents behind McCain’s nomination. McCain’s popularity didn’t take off until the media pushed him hard before the New Hampshire primary, a primary that Democrats overwhelmingly entered as “independents”. McCain only got his boost because of three things;
1 .the media
2. Dems
3. and a weak slate of conservatives.
He’s the “safe” candidate in the GOP’s eyes and nothing more because the GOP always rejects it’s conservative base and wrongfully assumes centrism is the future.
Good insight, Frogg but I would caution you on one point. Don’t get too caught up in the power of independents behind McCain’s nomination. McCain’s popularity didn’t take off until the media pushed him hard before the New Hampshire primary, a primary that Democrats overwhelmingly entered as “independents”. McCain only got his boost because of three things;
1 .the media
2. Dems
3. and a weak slate of conservatives.
He’s the “safe” candidate in the GOP’s eyes and nothing more because the GOP always rejects it’s conservative base and wrongfully assumes centrism is the future.
Sorry for the double post, people. But I’ll take the opportunity to say there’s a reason Reagan and the Gingrich revolution had overwhelming support and Ford, Bush Sr, and Dole, etc did not and it has nothing to do with coalition building.
But don’t forget that clinton got MORE votes after Newt’s revolution…
Dems are masters at manipulation. Let’s face it. The country is not an homogenous group like it was in the 50’s…it is made up of many splinter groups now that have to work together or wind up in the ash heap of political history…
I would hazzard that’s because the effects of Newt’s revolution weren’t felt until later on in Clinton’s term. And even then, Clinton tried taking credit for it, like the welfare act he vetoed 3 times. How many lefties do you think credit Clinton for the 90’s boom and the crook had nothing to do with it except rubber stamping what he couldn’t stop. AND, I might add, remember that Newt’s revolution wasn’t carried thru or built upon. That republican congress is just yet another piece of evidence that the GOP again chose to reject a successful and popular conservative model. And they’re doing it all over again.
By the way, did anyone make note of AJ’s comment above, “I have no plans or desires to vote democrat right now. Does this rather cryptic comment sound like it’s from the mind of a conservative? Can’t speak for the rest of you but I think it’s a no-brainer to NEVER vote for a Democrat EVER again. I barely consider Democrats Americans as it is!
Peggy Noonan is a backstabbing little name dropper. She got pissed when Bush would not give a her a job and now she has taken it upon herself to tell the rest of us what to think.
I stopped reading her crap a long time ago. I bet Reagan would spin in his grave to see what people like Noonan have done to a Republican president.
Peggy Noonan is a moron. Why does anyone read her stuff?
Whippet:
I know conservatives who voted for Brad Ellsworth here in Indiana. Before Hostettler was the Congressman in this district the guy in there was named Frank McCloskey and he was a Democrat.
The district votes Republican in most presidential elections. But then again Evan Bayh was a popular governor here in Indiana.
I think those of us who spend a lot of time talking about politics forget that most people are not as partisan as we might be. A lot of conservatives are voting for those blue dogs and in the south it should be remembered that not all that long ago the Democrats were almost all conservative.