Jul 22 2008
The Cult Of The COLB Under Fire
Pamela is getting it from all sides by real professional document investigators (check out the comments by Furious T). Â Some examples:
Folks: I’m in techdude’s industry as well, and you simply cannot do this kind of “forensic” examination on a COPY of a document without having access to the original. In other words, nothing techdude wrote matters at all because he didn’t work with the original document. Period. It is absolutely laughable that we can draw any conclusions from an electronic COPY of a document posted on a third-party website. And I know of no credentialed investigator who would assert otherwise.
Which is why techdude should be vetted, in my opinion. As a matter of professional responsibility, a bold accusation such as this (particularly one based on a COPY of the document in question) should be accompanied by the actual name of the investigator, his license number and the state in which he’s licensed, and the name of his investigative company. Even better would be a list of the cases he’s worked on and/or testifed at trial.
…
My whole point is that I cannot comment on techdude’s “analysis” because he’s not working with an original document. None of what he found matters. It is not, as Pamela claims, “suitable for the courtroom,” again precisely because he did not use an original document. Once again, and I cannot stress this enough, there is no way to determine that Obama’s birth certificate as posted by Kos or the LA Times is a forgery without having access to the original document. And I am personally surprised that any self-professed forensic investigator would say otherwise.
With all due respect, Pamela, you haven’t even begun to investigate this issue. What’s particularly troubling is that there are numerous avenues by which you could attempt to acquire your own copy of the birth certificate. You would require knowledge about Hawaii public records, their storage and delivery, how the Hawaii Department of Health handles requests for certified copies of birth certificates, and the location of archival documents from the town and facility in which Obama was born. There are literally dozens of ways I could determine whether or not Obama was actually born in Oahu, none of which would require document forensics. Again, it’s astounding to me that a self-professed “legal investigator” and “private investigator” would not have exhausted the brick-and-mortar route (a sadly fading enterprise among today’s PIs) before undertaking this highly specious analysis.
Ouch, that pretty much nails the quality level of this supposed report. Just an FYI. BTW – still looking for a COLB circa 2006-2008 with the same green border as seen in the Obama COLB.
In other words, nothing techdude wrote matters at all because he didn’t work with the original document. Period.
Now that AJ; is something I actually AGREE with, and I don’t have to have a “technical” background to know that!
See my comment on the other thread where I mentioned Marriage certificates in 2007 probably had the same border as Obama’s COLB.
Ray
“My whole point is that I cannot comment on techdude’s “analysis†because he’s not working with an original document. None of what he found matters.”
The point I have been trying to make all along. It is a complete waste of time and effort. Time spent on something that absolutely doesn’t matter one iota. It doesn’t even matter if the image posted to the website IS a fake, that doesn’t prove Obama wasn’t born in Hawaii. Obama had to produce an ORIGINAL DOCUMENT in order to get onto the ballot. Apparently, he did.
I disagree with the exert who is slamming Techdude in one respect. Techdude is not claiming that a PAPER version is a forgery, so it is wrong to imply that he did.
Techdude, despite being totally wrong in his assessment, is basically saying that the DIGITAL image doesn’t look like a DIGITAL image of a real certificate should look, and that is a valid exercise, irrespective of what rules the experts may use in courts for paper documents. For example if Techdude had found that some Chinese characters were included in a DIGITAL version, then he would have a strong case WITHOUT and paper version being seen.
Ray
Ray,
Actually, Techdude compared images of totally different lineages and histories and determine those difference spelled forgery. The gentleman is right, in court images don’t count.
crosspatch wrote:
“The point I have been trying to make all along. It is a complete waste of time and effort. Time spent on something that absolutely doesn’t matter one iota. It doesn’t even matter if the image posted to the website IS a fake, that doesn’t prove Obama wasn’t born in Hawaii. Obama had to produce an ORIGINAL DOCUMENT in order to get onto the ballot. Apparently, he did.”
———–
This is not ABOUT “registration for the ballot” – it’s about nutters not believing Obama was an earthling and was not born in Hawaii in 1961. That’s why he produced an image of a document that certified that he was.
The idea was to satisfy the nutters – which in itself make even ME wonder if he is suitable Presidential material – unless he’s trying to get the “nutter vote” – because after all, they ARE another minority group when you think about it.
Anyone who knows anything about about nutters, knows that nothing works, but people like AJStrata – who’s really switched on, want to show the terrorists who are watching the internet,that there are some sane people to deal with if they want to try anything funny.
Ray
AJStrata wrote:
“Ray,
Actually, Techdude compared images of totally different lineages and histories and determine those difference spelled forgery. The gentleman is right, in court images don’t count.”
————————
Yes, I was slack in the way I worded that. I meant that if Techdude had known there was no other style of 2007 certificate he could validly note any discrepancies he found.
Ray
Ray,
Understood – and I agree with your point we can’t look lost or confused (or in this totally addled) unless we want to invite action from our enemies.
Right now, I just want the political debate to center on reality!
AJStrata
AJStrata wrote:
“Ray,
Understood – and I agree with your point we can’t look lost or confused (or in this totally addled) unless we want to invite action from our enemies.
Right now, I just want the political debate to center on reality!”
===============
When dealing with reality, things can get pretty stark if we wipe away the political correctness etc. For example the reality for many people is that it is ok in some circumstances to deliver explosives to military targets via high altitude bombers that will also hit civilians, but it is not ok to deliver explosives via motor vehicle, bicycle or camel. One is considered pre-emptive striking, police action or war, and the other is terrorism.
Ray
[…] http://strata-sphere.com/blog/index.php/archives/5690 […]
Ray,
Something funny is going on in the Cult of COLB. Did you ever download a copy of Jeremy Smith’s COLB that Polarik used to have up?
AJStrata
No, I’ve never heard of it. I’d be interested in it though.
Polarik took it down from his Photobucket site.
I noticed on one of Pam’s earlier posts he mentioned that the Smith COLB border color did match the Obama bolder. Was just curious.
Alan
AJStrata wrote:
“Pamela is getting it from all sides by real professional document investigators […..] ”
============
Yeah, but the guy can’t even take a hint. He was told that if he cannot toe the line and agree that there was a conspiracy like everyone else is doing, then he may as well pee-off, but no, he hung around trying to talk reason with them.
He just doesn’t geddit – that the facts only get in the way of a good conspiracy story!
He seems not to realise that IT DOESN’T MATTER if Techdude was comparing Obama’s certificate with an entirely different version from 2006, 2007 and 2008 — as long as Obama’s certificate is different, that’s all that matters to prove absolutely that (in La-La-Land) it’s a forgery.
Ray
WHERE WILL ALL THIS FORGERY HYSTERIA END?
========= IMAGINED SCENARIO =========
[Ray]: I’ve compared another 2007 certificate with Obama’s
and found that it’s identical.
[La-La-Lander]: That’s a forgery too.
[Ray]: But you haven’t seen it!
[La-La-Lander]: Don’t have to, because they’re all forgeries.
[Ray]: No, I’ve had it verified by the boss at the Hawii Health Dept.
[La-La-Lander]: No, they’re in on the conspiracy — Illuminati.
[Ray]: Who’s in on the conspiracy?
[La-La-Lander]: Everyone who says it’s not a forgery.
[Ray]: But I’ve got an old letter written in Hawaii to a relative in
Kansas which provides the same details.
[La-La-Lander]: That’s a forgery too.
[Ray]: But it’s been tested and has the same Banyan tree spores in it that was the only one in that Kansas town in 1961.
[La-La-Lander]: Those spores were planted in the forged letter.
[Ray]: But you didn’t know about the letter until now.
[La-La-Lander]: Don’t have to know about it to know it’s forged.
[Ray]: But the great-aunt’s finger prints are on the letter!
[La-La-Lander]: She was in on it too from the very beginning.
[Ray]: How so?
[La-La-Lander]: Latex fingerprints on the letter.
[Ray]: Why not use her real finger prints?
[La-La-Lander]: Are you threatening me or what?
==================================
I have no idea whether or not these documents are fake. But crosspatch–this– “Obama had to produce an ORIGINAL DOCUMENT in order to get onto the ballot. Apparently, he did.” –is utter nonsense. Unless you can provide some authority for it, I’m saying it’s totally made up out of nothing.
clarice wrote:
I have no idea whether or not these documents are fake. But crosspatch–this– “Obama had to produce an ORIGINAL DOCUMENT in order to get onto the ballot. Apparently, he did.†–is utter nonsense. Unless you can provide some authority for it, I’m saying it’s totally made up out of nothing.
———–
I can’t follow what you’re saying there, but common sense would tell us that Obama couldn’t have concealed his birth name, date and place for all these years.
Here’s a few dates from my big collection of Obama’s event dates. Perhaps he registered somewhere after 6th June, 2007 and used that 6th June certificate to do so.
2007.01.16 – Announced 1st step for possible candidacy
2007.02.10 – Announced nomination for Presidential race
2007.05.01 – Oprah backs Obama on Larry King show
2007.06.06 – Birth record prepared for him in Hawaii
2007.12.10 – With Oprah on campaign trail
Ray
“For example the reality for many people is that it is ok in some circumstances to deliver explosives to military targets via high altitude bombers that will also hit civilians, but it is not ok to deliver explosives via motor vehicle, bicycle or camel. ”
AJ: I can’t tell you who to be friends with, but that quote above, is why you should walk away from that Ass-clown, “Ray”, as fast as possible.
He’s sucking up to you, and pretending to be your buddy, because you two agree on this issue.
AJ, you think you’re right on this issue, because you’ve done the “science”, and you think the “science” backs you up.
Okay, fine, my “gut” says different, but at least I understand why you think what you think.
But this guy “Ray”, agrees with you because he’s a liar, a fraud, a psychophant, he’s a nutcase who has been outted for what he is over at Atlas; he’s also a self-admitted fraud, a self-admitted liar, a “fake” “expert”; an Obama fan who’s here to weasel his way in with you, and then start dropping that typical Anti-American/Pro-Jihadi Leftist Traitor Nutbag crap!
Read that quote AJ, and check out that typical Leftist Moral Equivelancy and Moral Relativism, and see where’s he’s going to go with that when the time comes!
He’s like a Jihadi practicing “Taqiyah”; “I’ll lie, suck up to AJ, agree with him on this because he believes in it passionately, then I’ll sneak in behind with the Pro-Jihadi bullcrap, and by that time, I own him.
Becareful of this clown AJ: rattlesnakes will cuddle with you when you slept out in the open in the Southwest, at night, because they’re cold-blooded creatures that love “warmth”; but you know what AJ; they’ll still bite you nonetheless, the first chance they get!
DaleinAtlanta wrote:
“For example the reality for many people is that it is ok in some circumstances to deliver explosives to military targets via high altitude bombers that will also hit civilians, but it is not ok to deliver explosives via motor vehicle, bicycle or camel. â€
AJ: I can’t tell you who to be friends with, but that quote above, is why you should walk away from that Ass-clown, “Rayâ€, as fast as possible.
He’s sucking up to you, and pretending to be your buddy, because you two agree on this issue.”
====================
Get a grip. My comment was off-topic in this thread, but it was an example of a hard question that can arise when we have reality centred debate, which is what AJ is looking for.
There may well be definite answers to the question under the various Geneva Conventions and the laws of war, and if there are, then they should be spoken about freely so that everyone, including the terrorists (or would-be terrorists) know what is universally accepted as right and wrong.
There may also be differences between countries or cultures etc, and they need to be included if they are relevant and we know about them – but your inane suggestion about pissing people off – just because they ask a question that makes YOUR brain hurt, is not the way to go.
Stop and think. What if a potential terrorist read on a good blog that it was wrong in THEIR culture or THEIR religion or THEIR law or THEIR country’s agreements with the UN or other bodies to carry out certain acts – wouldn’t that be more helpful than leaving them to get just PART of the story?
Ray
Dale,
I am not his friend and he can say what he wants.
AJStrata