Aug 18 2008
Obama Thrown From Saddleback Debate
I watched a little of the Q&A at Saddleback with Obama and McCain. My bottom line take is Obama talks like a used car salesman/politician, speaking in Kumbayah tongues, while McCain addresses issues head on. Obama lost me when his reason to become President was to help all the poor people in the world. That is not the job of the US President. The UN and UNICEF and NGOs do that work.
The US President leads this nation forward and keeps it secure. We are the example of what mankind could be if it stopped being so damn jealous or intimidated by our achievements and just followed our example. They could keep their cultural diversity (we keep ours here), and thrive.
McCain’s best moment I saw was when he discussed his tough decision to stay a prisoner of war so he would not become a propaganda tool, and to honor the code that those in captivity the longest return first. It reminds all of us how much this man gave to this country, while Obama was still fumbling around with vague platitudes only elementary school children believe in. McCain wants to lead America, Obama wants to be the Tooth Fairy.Â
Update: Everybody knows Obama failed at Saddleback, including the now desperate media who have stooped to calling John McCain a cheater!
 Senator John McCain was not in a “cone of silence†on Saturday night while his rival, Senator Barack Obama, was being interviewed at the Saddleback Church in California.
Members of the McCain campaign staff, who flew here Sunday from California, said Mr. McCain was in his motorcade on the way to the church as Mr. Obama was being interviewed by the Rev. Rick Warren, the author of the best-selling book “The Purpose Driven Life.â€
The matter is of interest because Mr. McCain, who followed Mr. Obama’s hourlong appearance in the forum, was asked virtually the same questions as Mr. Obama. Mr. McCain’s performance was well received, raising speculation among some viewers, especially supporters of Mr. Obama, that he was not as isolated during the Obama interview as Mr. Warren implied.
Nicolle Wallace, a spokeswoman for Mr. McCain, said on Sunday night that Mr. McCain had not heard the broadcast of the event while in his motorcade and heard none of the questions.
“The insinuation from the Obama campaign that John McCain, a former prisoner of war, cheated is outrageous,†Ms. Wallace said.
What a bunch of horse-hockey. And if the Obamabots think crying ‘”cheater!” is going to help Obama they are just making a disaster much worse for the Junior Senator from Illinois. This was always going to be a problem for Obama, who has no political experience at the national level. And it was not the answers themselves, but the emotion behind them, as so many have been pointing out today. During the Olympics where Americans are striving to win, but in many cases losing to better athletes, this claim of cheating is especially grating. Obama’s camp is imploding in a burst of inexperience and frustration.
Andrea Mitchell started this whole cheater thing off and NewsBusters has a post up pointing to it may have gotten started over in Kos land.
Funny a while ago Mitchell was complaining the campaign she was following was being blind sided in Afghanistan coverage of Obama by the Pentagon and they were ‘shaping the news’ and now she is claiming all sorts of crystal ball insights into the McCain camp which she is NOT covering.
I just checked and NewsBusters has another post up about Mitchell complaining the Pentagon was favoring McCain in the German military hospital visit.
Team McCain has released a letter they have sent to NBC concerning NBC’s (specifically Andrea Mitchell’s) one sided and partisan reporting. Very good letter, lays out the situation and the lies very well. A very salient point – Rick Warren told BOTH candidates ahead of time what topics would be covered. There were no surprises to either of them. But McCain has solid beliefs, while Obama has only platitudes and evasion. It’s that simple.
Of course this claim proves that even the Obamabots know that McCain wiped up the floor with him.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0808/12594.html
Here is the text of the letter:
August 17, 2008
Mr. Steve Capus
President, NBC News
30 Rockefeller Plaza
New York, NY 10112
Steve:
We are extremely disappointed to see that the level of objectivity at NBC News has fallen so low that reporters are now giving voice to unsubstantiated, partisan claims in order to undercut John McCain.
Nowhere was this more evident than with NBC chief correspondent Andrea Mitchell’s comments on “Meet the Press” this morning. In analyzing last night’s presidential forum at Saddleback Church, Mitchell expressed the Obama campaign spin that John McCain could only have done so well last night because he “may not have been in the cone of silence and may have had some ability to overhear what the questions were to Obama.” Here are Andrea Mitchell’s comments in full:
Mitchell: “The Obama people must feel that he didn’t do quite as well as they might have wanted to in that context, because what they are putting out privately is that McCain may not have been in the cone of silence and may have had some ability to overhear what the questions were to Obama. He seemed so well-prepared.” (NBC’s “Meet The Press,” 8/17/08)
Make no mistake: This is a serious charge. Andrea Mitchell is repeating, uncritically, a completely unsubstantiated Obama campaign claim that John McCain somehow cheated in last night’s forum at Saddleback Church. Instead of trying to substantiate this blatant falsehood in any way, Andrea Mitchell felt that she needed to repeat it on air to millions of “Meet the Press” viewers with no indication that 1.) There’s not one shred of evidence that it’s true; 2.) In his official correspondence to both campaigns, Pastor Rick Warren provided both candidates with information regarding the topic areas to be covered, which Barack Obama acknowledged during the forum when asked about Pastor Warren’s idea of an emergency plan for orphans and Obama said, “I cheated a little bit. I actually looked at this idea ahead of time, and I think it is a great idea;” 3.) John McCain actually requested that he and Barack Obama do the forum together on stage at the same time, making these kinds of after-the-fact complaints moot.
Indeed, instead of taking a critical journalistic approach to this spin, Andrea Mitchell did what has become a pattern for her of simply repeating Obama campaign talking points.
This is irresponsible journalism and sadly, indicative of the level of objectivity we have witnessed at NBC News this election cycle. Instead of examining the Obama campaign’s spin for truth before reporting it to more than 3 million NBC News viewers, Andrea Mitchell simply passed along Obama campaign conspiracy theories. The fact is that during Senator Obama’s segment at Saddleback last night, Senator McCain was in a motorcade to the event and then held in a green room with no broadcast feed. In the forum, John McCain clearly demonstrated to the American people that he is prepared to be our next President…..
We are concerned that your News Division is following MSNBC’s lead in abandoning non-partisan coverage of the Presidential race. We would like to request a meeting with you as soon as possible to discuss our deep concerns about the news standards and level of objectivity at NBC.
Sincerely,
Rick Davis
Campaign Manager
John McCain 2008
This was too good, it hit all the points.
KUHNER: Celebrity contender
Sunday, August 17, 2008
The Democrats are on the verge of nominating the first celebrity presidential candidate in U.S. history. On Aug. 25, the Democratic National Convention in Denver will begin. The Democratic Party will officially endorse Illinois Sen. Barack Obama to be its nominee.
The event is a watershed moment in American politics. It is not just that for the first time an African-American will head a presidential ticket of a major party. It signifies something even more profound: the triumph of our celebrity culture.
America’s stoic, traditional culture is being replaced by one of rampant hedonism, moral relativism and self-indulgence. We are no longer able to distinguish what is important and meaningful from what is frivolous and inconsequential. We are suffering from what Pope Benedict XVI calls the “infantilization” and “entertainmentization” of our society. We live in a culture dominated by TV, tabloids and trash; Hollywood, sports, sex and pop music reign supreme. In short, we have become obsessed with games and entertainment.
[snipped – Kathie, please don’t post entire articles in the comments, not good form! Just a synopsis and the link is best. Thanks, AJStrata]
Jeffrey T. Kuhner is a columnist at The Washington Time
Great posts today!
From AJ:
“Obama lost me when his reason to become President was to help all the poor people in the world.”
Translated: he wants to take all we have and give it away….make us shrink so that others may feel more secure. Punish all who are successful. He truly despises capitalism and democracy, a.k.a. America.
o,
as Nelson Mandela quoted from Marianne Williamson:
“It is not enlightened to shrink so that others may feel more secure.”
Oh, please. The coverage of this has been according to script in every way: the Right-leaning sites think McCain did better, the Left-leaning sites think Obama did better. Wow – color me shocked.
I think they both accomplished what they set out to do: McCain got all of his campaign platitudes across (note that he completely ignored the actual question of “Define rich”), and Obama appealed to moderate Christians with some thoughtful and honest answers (although I cringed at his “three people you’ll take advice from” answer).
Sure, none of you were impressed by Obama: but what could he have done that would have possibly won you over to his side? You had made up your minds about that event before you even saw it – the same as the DKos folks did the other way. The partisan fallout (from both sides) was as predictable as the sun rising this morning.
As for the “cheating” meme – meh, whatever. But I do find it strange that when Rev. Warren said McCain was in “a cone of silence”, he was actually still traveling from his hotel room to the event. Why say something that wasn’t true?
Breschau,
My link was to a rabid left-wing site that thinks Obama failed, as do the fools over at NBC. Clearly it is not going as planned!
You want to know what he could do to impress me? Say something, anything that shows he isn’t a hard left idealogue capable of only reading scripts fed to him by his handlers. He’s never done that, and I don’t think he’s capable of it. And at Saddlback, that failure caught up with him in a bigway.
Obama just trashed the evangelical vote, and probably lost the election with that single disastrous performance. Of course the Christian-hating left will rejoice at Obama’s anti-Christian answers, but he needed to reach out, not preach to his atheistic base. He didn’t.
Obama appealed to Christians? He supports abortion on demand? He supports the use of embryonic stem cells? He supports increased federal regulation of religious organizations? He made all three of those claims, and every one of those is poison to anyone whose faith is important to them. I’ll say again – Obama just lost this election.
Actually, Rick Warren provided a forum that allowed the world to see each candidate as they truly are. No speeches, no teleprompters, no cover. 🙂
And bresch, MANY told McCain NOT to go to the Saddleback event because they feared it was a “set-up” against McCain.
o is NOT your guy, I’m telling you. You know I am right.
off topic, is macsmind.com down?
WWS:
“I’ll say again – Obama just lost this election.”
That’s a ridiculous assertion. Anyone who decides who they’re voting for based upon those three concepts wasn’t voting for Obama before Saturday night – so he didn’t lose anyone that was currently supporting him anyway. That’d be like saying “Obama’s stance on the war in Iraq has lost him the neocon vote”. Oh no – whatever will he do without those votes he never had?
I watched the talk Saturday night with my wife and mother-in-law, who are both Baptist (I’m Christian, but not that hardcore). They were fairly impressed with both candidates, but they’re both voting for Obama. So, obviously he hasn’t lost the entire Christian vote.
AJ:
TNR is “hard left”? Umm, 1999 called – they’d like their political labels back.
Sorry, but any site that loudly supported the Iraq invasion and endorsed Joe Lieberman is far from “hard left”. After all, these are the very folks who gave us the irritating and all-too-common “Even the liberal New Republic says…” phrase.
Meanwhile, Andrew Sullivan calls Obama’s portion of the talk “a masterful performance“. (Yes, I know Sully is way in the can for Obama now, but he built up his conversative cred a long time ago.) So, it cuts both ways.
Anyone who thinks an election can be won or lost from what happened Saturday night is simply grasping.
Bresch, the WHOLE fortnight has been a disaster for o because he has been seen for who he truly is. He is NOT ready to take over the highest office in the world. You know it and I know it. And guess what: the smart money dems know it, too.
Sorry AJ about copying whole thing. I don’t know how to do the blue line thing. Kathie
Kathie,
Just copy in the link entirely. The blue line thing is tough if you don’t know HTML and can screw up the site if you do it wrong.
No Problemo!
*Meanwhile, Andrew Sullivan calls Obama’s portion of the talk “a masterful performance“. (Yes, I know Sully is way in the can for Obama now, but he built up his conversative cred a long time ago.)*
Breschau argumentation is “it’s true because I say so.”
Sullivan has a conservative cred. Why? Because he says so.
How about asking actual conservatives whether he still has that cred?
Regardless, the very premise that the split is partisan, therefore any counterexamples you present are somehow points in your favor is logically fallacious.
I feel like my IQ has dropped 10 points just reading your tripe.
breschau
It could be that Rev Warren actually believed it when he said it.
made up your minds? I think most McCain supporters thought it was a set up to make McCain look bad, and vice versa. Just didn’t work out that way.
Yeah, tell us you were ‘impressed’ by Obama’s answer to the question about when life begins.
“I feel like my IQ has dropped 10 points just reading your tripe.”
Well said jb, Yep, he has that effect on people.
“Regardless, the very premise that the split is partisan, therefore any counterexamples you present are somehow points in your favor is logically fallacious.”
That might be the silliest thing I’ve ever read. Pointing out partisan reactions negates my point that the reactions were partisan? Eh? How does that work, exactly?
JB’s point was this – you’re pointing out that the hard core left still supports Obama, and claiming that is proof that ALL reaction to the debate is partisan. That is a logical fallacy.
Your argument is this: “some people’s reactions are partisan, therefore ALL reactions are partisan.” That is foolish and illogical.
Andrew Sullivan, as you yourself know, is no conservative and is completely in the tank for Obama. We can show you many on the left who think Obama did very poorly; you however will not find a SINGLE conservative who thinks McCain did poorly. That is not a partisan split; that is a sign that Obama blew it badly and only the most hard core fanatics and ideologues still refuse to admit it.
breschau:
McCain did better than Obama because he just answered the questions with directness and honesty. Obama took the nuanced i.e. tortured tact of answering questions and it was too tedious.
McCain did not cheat, the very assertion is ridiculous and it is something Obama’s defenders came up with to explain away his poor performance. They have no evidence of any kind of cheating at all, but it seems they don’t think they need any. It is enough to shoot off their mouths.
McCain was on his way during Obama’s part and when he got there Obama was still speaking so he went into some green room somewhere and waited until it was his turn.
WWS:
Okay, do it – go find me some of these “many” people from the left that think “Obama did very poorly”. Now, that doesn’t mean they think McCain came off better, or that Obama went a little too long in his answers, or whatever – they have to actually be of the opinion that Obama did “very poorly” (or some similar paraphrasing).
The first link from AJ above said that “Obama was fluent, cool and cerebral”. The NYT link doesn’t say anything about Obama’s performance. And the TNR article was posted on Friday – before the event itself.
I know it will come as a shock to you, but it is possible for someone to think *both* candidates did well. You don’t have to be in lockstep with your party’s talking points on every freaking point. I don’t know why the GOP insists on this “thou shalt say nothing good about a Democrat”, but it’s insulting.
Now, I will agree that there’s been a somewhat “muted” response from the Left on this. But I believe that’s because a lot of lefty bloggers were expecting Obama to wipe the floor with McCain. But he didn’t, mostly because McCain was better at this than some people thought – they were hoping for a gaffe on the level of mixing-up of Sunni/Shia, talking about the Iraq/Pakistan border, or insisting that the Surge caused the Anbar Awakening. None of that happened – they both hit their main talking points. I’d call it a tie, myself
Terrye:
Actually, I agree with you – I don’t think he cheated. However, if this situation had been reversed – if McCain had gone first, and if Obama had arrived halfway through – the reaction from you all would have been hi-LAR-ious.