Oct 23 2008
We Will Distribute Our Wealth As We See Fit
Thank you to reader Duhize for pointing out this article regarding Obama’s plan to redistribute our wealth. This election has become focused on the economy (and rightly so). But the reaction by undecided voters to Obama’s economic plan is very interesting.
By a more than two-to-one margin, undecided voters disagree with such efforts to redistribute wealth. In total, 57 percent of undecided voters said they disagreed, while only 24 percent said they agreed (19 percent are not sure).
A majority (52 percent) of self-identified Independent voters also disagree with efforts to bring social justice through wealth redistribution. Only 39 percent of Independents agree (10 percent are not sure).
And to think that this is the basic question that “Joe the Plumber” asked. Well I guess there is no point in ridiculing “Joe” since other Americans wanted to know the answer as well. And it looks like a majority do not agree. Could this possibly sway votes over the next 12 days?
DJStrata
let’s see…your beloved bushco just nationalized the banks to the tune of 700 billion. and you support a candidate to succeed him who wants to buy up 300 billion dollars worth of private mortgages. and yet you post this. the lack of intellectual honesty is astounding.
if the zogby poll isn’t a push poll it’s damn close.
here’s mccain in 2000 responding to a question from a girl who wants to know why her her father, a doctor, pays a higher tax rate than people who earn less:
mccain: “i think it’s to some degree because we feel, obviously, that wealthy people can afford more.”
doctor’s daughter: aren’t we getting closer and closer to, like, socialism and stuff?
mccain: “here’s what i really believe. when you are, reach a certain level of comfort, there is nothing wrong with paying somewhat more.”
i guess that’s just one more thing mccain has changed his increasingly feeble mind about.
social justice. what tripe.
shouldn’t you be out chasing non-existent audio tapes and pink unicorns?
BlogWatch: Economy…
Thank you to reader Duhize for pointing out this article regarding Obama’s plan to redistribute our wealth. This election has become focused on the economy (and rightly so). But the reaction by undecided voters to Obama’s economic plan is very inte…
DJ,
I’m glad to hear that you and other Americans are concerned about the redistribution of wealth. In fact, the largest redistribution of wealth since the Great Depression occured during the Bush presidency. Incomes, on average, have declined by 2.5% among the bottom fifth of families since the late 1990s, while inching up by just 1.3% for those in the middle fifth of households. The wealthiest fifth of Americans, however, saw their incomes rise by 9%. The average income of the bottom fifth of families was $18,116; the middle fifth, $50,434; and the wealthiest fifth, $132,131. http://money.cnn.com/2008/04/09/news/economy/incomegap/index.htm All of the data is based on US Census Bureau figures – but I’m guessing that you all will now claim that the US Census Bureau is part of the liberal conspiracy movement that is stealing the election from “Real America”.
One of the biggest contributing factors for this redistribution was the Bush tax cut, of which 31% of which went to the top 1% wealthiest in the US. Don’t believe me? Here is a video compliation of John McCain himself explaining that he opposed Bush’s tax cut because it disproportionately benefits the wealthy – at least until he decided to run for president. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwtayJCK5LY
Suddenly he changes his tune on the tax cuts right as he launches his presidential bid and all you folks buy it! The good ole Straight Talk Express. Too funny.
One of the biggest contributing factors for this redistribution was the Bush tax cut, of which 31% of which went to the top 1% wealthiest in the US.
OK, conman, I’m going to teach you a little math. Let me know if I get beyond your ability to comprehend.
1. The top 1% of Americans earn 17% of the taxable income.
2. The top 1% of Americans paid 33% of the income taxes.
3. They got 31% of the tax cut.
31% is slightly less than 33%. (You are able to comprehend that, right?)
Were your thesis true, the top 1% would have received significantly more of the tax cut than the total amount of taxes that they were paying–i.e., for your thesis to be true, the wealthiest 1% would’ve received 40-50% (at least) of the total tax cut. That did not hold. The reduction in their tax burden was roughly equal to their total tax burden.
In general, those who pay most of the taxes do end up getting most of any tax cut. If “tax cuts” go to those who are NOT paying taxes, they’re not “tax cuts,” they’re “wealth transfer” payments.
All people who pay Federal taxes got a tax cut from President Bush. Many low income earners were removed from the Federal tax rolls altogether. Also for those of us who invest for income during our retirement years and those who have 401K’s got a capital gains break. That helps people save for their future retirement instead of betting on the government to take care of us. Savings is a good thing. So all in all every American was treated equally and with respect. Personally I appreciate that. I quite like deciding who I will gift my money to. I’m sure my choices would not be Obama’s or even Pelosi’s. Because I had some extra I chose to give to the “Wounded Warrior” program and to a friend who hand makes quilts for a cancer project. You see President Bush didn’t need to tax me and millions of others to support our soldiers in harms way, we were inspired to do so because we love them and respect their bravery. The highest form of giving is through inspiration rather then obligation. Americans are very good at supporting through inspiration, actually the best in the world. Why kill it through taxation?
Conman, something that you should include in your research is who is in that group at the bottom who’s income has dropped, that bottom fifth. You will find that that group is populated mostly by new immigrants, mostly not legal. Many of the 12 million who came over the border in the last 10 years. You Conman need to read in depth before you draw conclusions.
I wonder when the Normal Con Artist will tell us who pays it to provide the ever so valuable Tripe that we are subjected to (under the good graces of AJ who pays the bill)…..
Cobalt,
You will have to take up the math issue with the US government – that’s were the 31% figure comes from. Maybe they will put you on their payrolls so they have a math genius on their staff that will prevent them from making similar mistakes in the future.
As for the fairness of the tax cuts, you will have to take that up with McCain. He is the one that repeatedly said the Bush tax cuts unfairly advantaged the wealthy at the expense of the middle/lower classes.
Kathie,
I’m just curious – did the capital gains break you got compensate for your recent losses in your 401 K? I didn’t think so.
As for your claim that the drop in income for the bottom fifth is due to illegal immigrants, I challenge you to find one, just one, economic study that supports that theory. I’ll bet you my 401k that you can’t find one.
As for your claim that “You see President Bush didn’t need to tax me and millions of others to support our soldiers in harms way, we were inspired to do so because we love them and respect their bravery,” maybe you should take a look at our national deficiet. Sorry, but your love and respect for our soldiers was not nearly enough to pay for this war. We put it on the credit card and told our children and grandchildren that they needed to figure out how to pay for it. We were too busy shopping to bother.
Conguy
enjoying your math lesson?
first, let me defy you to link to somewhere that proves your thesis on ”largest redistribution of wealth since the depression”.
then, tell me how many taxpayers in the top fifth got a 100% cut in their income tax? Then tell me how many taxpayers in the bottom fifth got a 100% tax cut. (you realize if someone in the bottom fifth stopped paying taxes, that’s a 100% cut.)
I would be willing to bet that not a single person in the top fifth got a 100% cut.
I’m fairly sure that the point Kathie made above is a valid one. Whereas many years ago, the bottom fifth was made up of all Americans working for low wages, those are now in the next higher fifth and the lower fifth is now made up of illegals working for either very low pay or undeclared pay(under the table), so yeah, they’re gonna make less.
Speaking of redistribution, you know how the Goracle and his green agenda camp have been spewing endless CO2 into the atmosphere about how the environment needs money, money, money, money, money, money, money, for Gore and Bubba’s “trillion dollar industry”?
Well, have a peek at who else has been redistributing the wealth and to whom.
Update: Environmental Groups Exposed: ‘Every dollar spent has been aimed at helping Democrats’
http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.Blogs&ContentRecord_id=262204fd-802a-23ad-48d8-a7704ecc91a6
This report is part of an ongoing oversight investigation into the funding and partisan political activities of environmental groups.
I always find it laughable how liberals love accusing the world of how, “Money isn’t everything!” Yet $600M later Obama’s campaign is still screaming at America for more, more, more, more, and still more donations, and charging the press for precious access to The One’s extravagant victory soiree.
Clearly, to the liberal left, it’s ALL about money, even if you have to create sham special interest groups like “environmentalists” and ACORN to get it.
So guess what Obama will be asking if he’s elected and where your tax dollars will be going in the Obama Gulag. If you think the news about Obama planning out the transition ahead of winning is arrogant, I’d be willing to bet the Dems already have their favorite “special interests” earmarked to help fund the next election.
Think about it next time you hear the left talking about how Americans need to “change their lightbulbs”.
I guess I’m trying to figure out how you help low wage income earners who don’t pay taxes. My daughter is one, she pays no taxes, will move up in time, fortunately she doesn’t have to support anybody but her self. She is an entry level employee. Do you just give them money and pretend they are better off?
Can someone explain to me what a bottom up economy is? I can think of only one way to help people earn a wage, that is to create a job. Small businesses and corporations create jobs.
No I lost money in the stock market the last 4 months. However I made money over the last 20 years. I don’t have a 401K. There is no way anyone can make more money over a period of time with out investing it, there are safer investments. Like life investment is a gamble. Nothing is absolutely safe.
Inspiration did not pay for the war. Government didn’t raise people out of poverty either.
AJ and ALL –
MUST SEE Youtube Video of Barak Obama in 1995 Bizarre, Race Baiting Interview Found! Says whites don’t want to help black kids
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7fi8STNlxM
Spread it around and everyone please make sure AJ sees this!!! If someone can email him it would be greatly appreciated!
Email everyone to see this. It will probably be moved and put back up somewhere else.
Here is the full interview.
Democrats to kill 401Ks???? They’re thinking about it.
http://hotair.com/archives/2008/10/23/democrats-to-kill-401ks-for-privatized-social-security/
Redteam,
Here are several links demonstrating that Bush’s years have seen the â€largest redistribution of wealth since the depressionâ€.
Here are some with nice graphs that make it real easy for you to understand.
http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2008/03/17/1928-resemblances/
http://www.starnewsonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070329/ZNYT01/703290462/1002/business
This one has it under the heading “Keeping Up With The Joneses”, 2nd paragraph.
http://hubpages.com/hub/Income_Disparity_Grows
It only took me about 2 minutes to find these. You know, there is this really cool search engine called google – you can look this stuff up yourself and learn a lot.
kathie…
try to listen with an open mind.
first…obama is proposing refundable tax credits. these are for such expenses as child care, mortgage interest and college tuition. you have to have done something to earn the credit…you have to have worked, or paid mortgage interest, or paid college tuition, or put money into a retirement account before you can claim the refundable credit. this will help keep many people off welfare. you would think that so-called conservatives would like the idea of keeping people off welfare…but idealogical views can be blinding.
second…simply speaking the so called bottom up economy is demand side economics as opposed to supply side economics. the verdict is in…trickle down or supply side economics do not work and never have. even reagan had to raise taxes as did bush 41. you can give all the tax cuts you want to the wealthy, if there is no demand there is simply no reason for them to create jobs. do you really think anyone is just going to say “heck i got this $50,000 tax break, i think i’ll just create a job.” it will not and does not happen unless there is a demand. this economy has been living on borrowed time because of the housing bubble. people were using their houses as credit cards. now that credit no longer exists for many people so there is no demand. bush threw billions of deficit spending at the wealthy in tax cuts that will not pay for themselves and still job creation has been flat. productivity is up, but wages are flat.
we have a progressive tax system. it is not perfect but it is not socialism. it does need to be adjusted to create demand from the bottom that will result in jobs and get the economy moving.
Here’s an idea to all the tax cut/redistribution of wealth debaters—-CUT SPENDING. Then we won’t need this silly arguing about tickle down and ooze up. The size of the problems is propotional to the size of the government that created them.
You will have to take up the math issue with the US government – that’s were the 31% figure comes from.
As does the 33% of all income taxes paid figure.
Maybe they will put you on their payrolls so they have a math genius on their staff that will prevent them from making similar mistakes in the future.
No, they didn’t make a math mistake.
You have merely demonstrated that you are unable to comprehend math in the first place.
One more time, for review:
1. The wealthiest 1% of Americans pay 33% of the income taxes.
2. The wealthiest 1% of Americans received 31% of the income tax cuts.
3. 31% is very close to 33%.
4. Therefore, the wealthiest 1% of Americans received a tax cut roughly in proportion to their portion of the total taxes they pay. (Actually, to be pendantically precise, they received slightly less of the total tax cut than they were paying in taxes, which increased their tax burden relative to the remaining 99% of Americans, but I’m not in a mood to quibble over 2%, so I’m giving you a break.)
A significant “wealth transfer” to the the wealthiest 1% of Americans via “tax cuts” would require the government to give them tax cuts in excess of their portion of the tax burden.
If necessary, get a math tutor to explain this to you.
conguy,
here’s a small illustration of the realities of taxation.
Norm and Conguy,
you do realize that Obama is planning to do away with 401k’s don’t you?
Conguy, thanks for the links, seems the problem started with the Clinton Admin.( if you consider creating wealth a problem)
don’t see anything in those graphs where it showed anything at all about anyone other than the top 10%, nothing about the bottom.
Norm
you would think that so-called conservatives would like the idea of keeping people off welfare
You need to get away from that socialist school of economics.
obama is proposing refundable tax credits
refundable tax credits IS welfare. when money is confiscated from someone that earned it and given to someone that didn’t, that is welfare.