Oct 29 2008
PUMAs As Allies
I am an ex-democrat conservative, which puts me in great company with the likes of Ronald Reagan, Â and others. To have once been a die-hard Democrat is to understand the left and be able to emphasize (not necessarily agree) with their views. To be a conservative independent is to understand the left is not always right, and the liberal left is rarely right. To not be a Republican means I refuse to be trapped in party mob think, and there are folks on the far right who can turn me off as fast as a rabid socialist liberal. If you believe the ultimate is to be American and tolerant of diverse opinions, connecting across the aisle is natural.
My more centrist position (which is right of McCain and probably closest to Palin and Bush) makes me a RINO (which is hilarious since I am an independent). It made me evil to many parts of the GOP when I sided with Bush and McCain on matters like comprehensive immigration reform. My salvation seems to come from not being willing to lose the war in Iraq at any cost, scientifically and morally against embryonic stem cell research, and one of those skeptics on Global Warming which have been proven right over time (as we see in this first season of what is supposed to be a decade of Global Cooling).
After the election I intend to take up the topic of evolution vs intelligent design to make the point that to be for intelligent design, and not see that DNA is the language of creation and therefore of our creator, is a bit oxymoronic. If you want to see what God has written in his own hand, then DNA and all its implications is the new Bible of Creation. Your DNA defined much of who you are, while your family, friends, community and others helped finish defining that creation of God that exist today and which is embodied in you. Â The same way his instructions and life experiences defined God’s creations who are your spouse and children and parents and friends and pets, etc. To deny evolution is to deny the hand of the creator. This subject is a schism in this country that should not exist.
As you can see I am not a Hannity conservative. I am a Bush, Reagan, Palin conservative – and McCain is growing on me by the day. And the reason I bring this all up (outside losing a lot of new readers) is I was touched by this post from one of the lead PUMAs.
Republicans, this is directed at you. Hillary’s Army remains strong, and committed to putting McCain/Palin in the White House.Â
…
This is the greatest nation on Earth and we Democrats never fail to wake each morning deeply thankful and grateful for the opportunities we have here. We know what socialism is, and know we want no part of this here. Obama’s mission is to weaken this country and put us under the thumb of the UN, like a European socialist state. That’s not what we want.
…
We do not intend for this alliance to be of only this moment — we’ve worked alongside all of you for months now and see we all have more in common than we ever had apart. We will never agree on everything, but let’s all start with our love of country. Our pride in America. Our willingness to work hard together to give everyone opportunities — not hand outs.
Read the whole thing. I said early this year this would be an election decided by the middle of the electorate. I said Obama could not win because he must either bow to his hard liberal base and lose the middle or bow to the middle and lose the far left. He has tried to walk the tight rope, but he fell off that rope when his ‘redistribute the wealth’ socialism leaked out. McCain always had a chance to win if he could build a coalition that spanned centrist left to far right. It seems to finally be happening – Obama is that scary.
I would rather arrange a meeting with this PUMA than meet with Conservative Icons like Peggy Noonan, David Frum, David Brookes, Chris Buckley and probably a few others I have no desire to pick a fight with right now. Who do I want to drink a beer with? Someone across the aisle who will help get this country back on the right track. Â Not the ‘change’ track. Obama wants to ‘change’ America, I want to fix DC.
I have been pilloried many times for not being a ‘true’ conservative – which I see as badge of honor. The GOP lost Congress by being intolerant and pushing for purity by castigating the moderates and chasing them to the Dems. In VA the same trick has now turned this state purple and well on the way to blue.
I hope people have learned something this year about politics and the price of losing. Every time conservatives start fracturing, the far left takes advantage of the situation, with its monopoly in the news media, and sends in someone who risks this nation. Bill Clinton wasn’t too bad, but he came from the centrist wing of the Democrat Party. If you did not like Clinton, you should be scared to death of the liberal Obama.
I too see a long term opportunity under McCain-Palin to pull back from the extremes and avoid disaster. When our leaders fail due to rigid adherence to ideology, and there seems to be no path out, too many Americans feel it is OK to throw the Hail Mary to any Tom, Dick and Barry who shows up. This is what happened with Obama. The right failed, the left failed, and too many said ‘oh what the hell’ and jumped on the Messiah bandwagon, lured by B-Movie platitudes about ‘changing the world’ and ‘we are what we have been waiting for’. (Excuse me, but I need to go puke – will be right back).
Anyway, I find it interesting – given McCain’s true Maverick nature – to realize Hillary Clinton probably has a better opportunity in a McCain administration than in an Obama one. Not that it matters to PUMAs or McCain-Palin supporters – or even will happen – but it does sort of underline how this new alliance could win and avoid disaster. And when if we do win, I would like to remind all the purists out there how close we are now to disaster and how it is important not to fracture alliances. Purity is a myth, Barack Obama’s and the liberal Congressional Leader’s socialism and defeatism in Iraq is not a myth. We can tolerate some compromise if the alternative is Liberalism run amok.
This conservative independent looks forward to allying with the PUMAs, and greeting the first woman Vice President of these United States of America.
AJ, I certainly hope you’re right.
I’m as hard-edged a conservative as you are going to find. To me, Hannity is a moderate. But politics is the art of compromise, the art of the deal. And there have been too many people who are demanding everything go their way.
Right on AJ!! I think your views are shared by the vast majority who are mature and responsible enough to understand what compromise is and isn’t.
Obama the Great Divider is no answer! Not now, not ever!
I, too, am an ex democrat conservative. However, even though I lived in democrat controlled Alabama, I have always voted republican for president. I was a registered democrat until I moved to North Carolina in 2002. When I registered to vote here I changed parties also. Even though listed as a democrat I have voted republican for the last 25 years since Alabama went republican. I just never bothered to change parties and I wonder how many there are like me.
I toyed with the idea of being independent but since I was determined never to vote democrat again I felt there was no sense in not belonging to the republican party. Sometimes I wonder if I had not made a mistake. I get so irritated at the high road the republicans take. McCain saying “don’t be afraid of Obama, he is a good man”. You don’t say things like that when in a contest. When he said that I thought if you didn’t want to win why did you run? But he redeemed himself later. Republican don’t have to get as nasty as democrats do but they need to get rid of the “deer in the headlights” looks so many of them have. They seem to be stunned all the time at the new lows democrats to to and not know how to retaliate. It is no surprise to anyone else why is it to them? It is like they must be gentemen at all time and in the dirty world of politics this is a loser.
Mike M,
I think your comments support my perception quite well! Yes, fighting for your cause is not wrong, demeaning others who fight on your side for not following you to a ‘T’ is self destructive.
[…] PUMAs As Allies Bill Clinton wasn’t too bad, but he came from the centrist wing of the Democrat Party. If you did not like Clinton, you should be scared to death of the liberal Obama. I too see a long term opportunity under McCain-Palin to pull back … […]
[…] PUMAs As Allies Bill Clinton wasn’t too bad, but he came from the centrist wing of the Democrat Party. If you did not like Clinton, you should be scared to… […]
What I have been saying all along is that there is also a civil war of sorts going on in the Dem party.
Most people don’t notice it and lump all Dems in as one and throw the paint at Dems in general which irks the ‘classic Dems’ who don’t buy the ‘progressive’ agenda.
Right now it is the DNC/CPC Congressional Progressive Caucus that is trying to do what Obama did years ago with the New Party alignment. Fusion parties were allowed then before SCOTUS said no.
The extreme far left Nutroots/DNC/CPC is trying to take over the control of the Dem party which they use as a vehicle rather than try to form up their own party with a split and leave them as a third party.
They would pull maybe 25 to 35 % of the base with them at best based on the states where they are strongest and even those would be split between the two groups.
I think the combination of the classic or blue dog or dixiecrat dems along with independents and repubs will carry this and by margins that will surprise many unless there is major fraud at the polls.
I believe you are correct on your perception of intelligent design and evolution. I have never seen any contradiction in the two.
I also feel much as you do on the party affiliation. Some people that think they are far right conservatives are actually far to the right of most Republicans. Peggy Noonan, Frum, Brookes, et.al share very little political views similar to mine. Obama and I share exactly zero views. I’m probably an 80% believer in McCains views. I feel that if I want to continue to have those views, or more accurately, express them publicly, Obama has to be defeated. I don’t agree with McCain about not fearing Obama, he is the most destructive person to run for President in my lifetime.
vote for the Republicans.
“As you can see I am not a Hannity conservative.”
Neither am I. I can’t listen to that guy, he just seems to keep repeating himself. And he seems to have a much different recollection of Regan than I do. Reagan was not some kind of ultra-conservative. In fact, Regan was constantly having to battle the far right in California and when he was running for President.
BarbaraS, you didn’t make a mistake…but there are some weaknesses that Republicans have. And the PUMAs have highlighted some of them dramatically.
The standard Republican response to defeat is despondency. The Democrats? Anger. And while anger may not be the optimal response, it can rapidly mutate to resolve.
And you’re right…one of the standard counters that the Democrats have developed to effective Republican attacks is to whine about “civility”. Whereupon the Republican will stop doing what is working, and do something far less effective.
Both habits are annoying…but can, perhaps, be reformed into something useful.
[…] PUMAs As Allies Anyway, I find it interesting – given McCain’s true Maverick nature – to realize Hillary Clinton probably has a better opportunity in a… […]
MerlinOS2 is correct – there IS a civil war going on in the Democratic Party. Obama and Dean are doing a hostile takeover. Was reading the Irish Echo yesterday (the source for that 60% McCain poll), and how Rep Crowley of Queens had been begging Obama to participate in a forum with no results. Crowley is an official Blue Dog in a CD that is ethnically very complex. Small stories from Texas, Pennsylvania, Connecticut, and elsewhere in NYC that Team Obama is pushing the centrists aside. How it plays out in Congress will depend in part on this presidential election.
I always thought that Daschle urging Obama to run was a way to get even with the Clintons for losing Congress. Now I am hoping that Daschle and Rahm Emmanuel are puppetmasters despite the surreal pick of Joe Biden who is now chained to his teleprompter. Even Nancy Pelosi was pushing Chet Edwards of Texas because the current Dem majority in Congress are Blue Dogs. The Black Congressional Caucus was pushing Sam Nunn.
Guess wanting the Catholic vote won out. The ethnic Catholic vote is still the bloc to watch (more than 1/3 of PA voters and probably as high in NY, NJ and CT).
It would be helpful if the evolution of the Republican Party was not anti-science. Makes centrists uneasy.
Interesting. I would consider McCain center-right, not centrist, and Palin to the right of Dubya (especially on her small government leanings), and myself as somewhere between Palin and McCain, a fiscal, judicial, and security conservative, but a social moderate. But that may be trying to make too large a generalization out of disparate sub-fields and frames of reference. (That is, most of us see ourselves as being at the reasonable center.) I do know that I get very annoyed with the “true conservatives” who would rather lose in ideological purity rather than compromise, make room for moderates, and build a genuine majority coalition.
As for Hillary, I do like the articles at Hillbuzz, but I think they’re kidding themselves when they call Hillary a centrist. She’s a centrist only in comparison to Comrade Senator Obama.
AJ,
Re: the hard and hateful right
You must receive email from a number of unreasonable or hateful persons on “the hard right”. I sympathize with your inbox experience.
I know and love persons whom I consider both hard right and misguidedly hateful in various areas. They send me email. However, I know those persons in real life. Those misguided persons are neither powerful nor influential amongst their peers.
I wonder if you might be reacting to powerless and uninfluential persons who found their way to cable internet connections and email accounts? I wonder if the “hateful right” represent much more than the spreading popularity of the internet amongst all demographics of income and education and reasoning ability?
Re: Intelligent Design
I look forward to your expanded post. Spurred by reading a previous post here, I spent a few days trying to learn more about ID. It’s my impression that many or most ID persons believe DNA/genetic coding is clearly a gift from God and is part of God’s plan. If this is not your impression, I am interested to know why.
Re: Immigration/Amnesty
I just want to emphasize
1) I am in favor of our nation controlling our borders, and
2) I’ve no hatred for immigrants.
Once we better control our borders, we can then consider solutions for the millions who have been here a long time.
Your blog has been fabulous all Fall. Thanks for being so interesting.
where did I write ‘hateful right’???
I retract. I sloppily projected “hard right” to “hateful right”, esp. concerning immigration. I apologize.
Thanks gcotharn! Very much appreciated.
> Most people don’t notice it and lump all Dems in as one and throw the paint at Dems in general which irks the ‘classic Dems’ who don’t buy the ‘progressive’ agenda.
Well, unfortunately, “classic Dems” are kind of like “moderate Islam”. I’m sure both exist but they somewhat lack the visibility of the “other kind”.
I know they both exist, I’ve seen or interacted with both types. But they don’t consitute even a very visible minority, and, as such, can only blame themselves for the ire directed their way.
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> I believe you are correct on your perception of intelligent design and evolution. I have never seen any contradiction in the two.
There is none, and can be, if you actually grasp their natures.
Religion and Science are not in contest with one another. One does not preclude or argue with the other. There is no true overlap (although there is some apparent overlap at fringe areas where one might argue over which notion belongs where).
Science is about provable, testable things. If it isn’t provable, it’s not Science. God is not provable (more on that in a moment) and thus Science has nothing to say about Him.
Faith, and Religion, is about the unknown and unknowable. It’s about what you can’t prove, but believe anyway. Hence, it, too, does not address any problem of Science.
There’s no overlap, really. Science is about provable things, Faith is about unprovable things.
Evolution is sufficiently demonstrable that it’s clear that, if the universe was created by God, then He did so by either the mechanism of evolution, OR by planting evidence which makes evolution scientifically verifiable and justifiable. ID is based on an inherent assumption of God, or something of sufficient power and ability so as to be pretty much the same thing. This is not a testable hypothesis, ergo it’s not, and never can be, science. It’s a matter of Faith.
Now, a side comment, which I think people often fail to grasp about Evolution vs. ID.
I think it’s a rationally demonstrable fact that God, assuming He exists (and I do) wants us to believe in Him based on Faith alone.
If God wanted to be proven to exist, it’s not like He’d have much of a problem parting the heavens and saying… “Yeah. I exist. What about it?” He has not done so, ergo, He wants us to believe in Him based on Faith. Why this is I shan’t begin to speculate. But it makes rational sense, and there’s some measure of biblical support for that argument, too.
Now, given that, it seems clear that the common ID argument that “the world could not exist without God” is itself a presumption of Proof of God.
Since we’ve already reasoned that He doesn’t want to be Proven, it must follow from that that Evolution (or some alternate scientific theory, at least) MUST WORK.
The universe as we know it cannot be demonstrated to require God
In fact, it should show no sign of really needing God to exist at all. There should be sufficient evidence inherent in it that it is capable of bootstrapping itself up from nothingness.
Whether that’s just because God used some technique for bootstrapping it that He wasn’t absolutely required for, or if He just created it with a wave of His hand, and included those necessary elements to make it appear as though it was bootstrapped is irrelevant to the question of Evolution or ID. ID is not science, and cannot be — it should be taught as Religion or Faith. Evolution is Science, and should be taught as such. But one doesn’t preclude the other. One can accept the notion that a creator created things via evolution… or created them instantly and left behind clues to the chain of evolution.
And just because one believes in evolution, does not mean one cannot believe that God was a/the guiding force behind it.
The two aren’t at odds with one another. Any “arguments” between them are false arguments deriving from failure to understand what is Science and what is Faith.
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